Fatty Foods Addictive as Cocaine in Growing Body of Science

OTMPut

Hall of Fame
Wire: BLOOMBERG News (BN) Date: Nov 2 2011 12:01:00
Fatty Foods Addictive as Cocaine in Growing Body of Science


By Robert Langreth and Duane D. Stanford
Nov. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Cupcakes may be addictive, just like
cocaine.
A growing body of medical research at leading universities
and government laboratories suggests that processed foods and
sugary drinks made by the likes of PepsiCo Inc. and Kraft Foods
Inc. aren’t simply unhealthy. They can hijack the brain in ways
that resemble addictions to cocaine, nicotine and other drugs.
“The data is so overwhelming the field has to accept it,”
said Nora Volkow, director of the National Institute on Drug
Abuse. “We are finding tremendous overlap between drugs in the
brain and food in the brain.”
The idea that food may be addictive was barely on
scientists’ radar a decade ago. Now the field is heating up. Lab
studies have found sugary drinks and fatty foods can produce
addictive behavior in animals. Brain scans of obese people and
compulsive eaters, meanwhile, reveal disturbances in brain
reward circuits similar to those experienced by drug abusers.
Twenty-eight scientific studies and papers on food
addiction have been published this year, according to a National
Library of Medicine database. As the evidence expands, the
science of addiction could become a game changer for the $1
trillion food and beverage industries.
If fatty foods and snacks and drinks sweetened with sugar
and high fructose corn syrup are proven to be addictive, food
companies may face the most drawn-out consumer safety battle
since the anti-smoking movement took on the tobacco industry a
generation ago.

‘Fun-for-You’

“This could change the legal landscape,” said Kelly
Brownell, director of Yale University’s Rudd Center for Food
Policy & Obesity and a proponent of anti-obesity regulation.
“People knew for a long time cigarettes were killing people,
but it was only later they learned about nicotine and the
intentional manipulation of it.”
Food company executives and lobbyists are quick to counter
that nothing has been proven, that nothing is wrong with what
PepsiCo Chief Executive Officer Indra Nooyi calls “fun-for-
you” foods, if eaten in moderation. In fact, the companies say
they’re making big strides toward offering consumers a wide
range of healthier snacking options. Nooyi, for one, is as well
known for calling attention to PepsiCo’s progress offering
healthier fare as she is for driving sales.
Coca-Cola Co., PepsiCo, Northfield, Illinois-based Kraft
and Kellogg Co. of Battle Creek, Michigan, declined to grant
interviews with their scientists.
No one disputes that obesity is a fast growing global
problem. In the U.S., a third of adults and 17 percent of teens
and children are obese, and those numbers are increasing. Across
the globe, from Latin America, to Europe to Pacific Island
nations, obesity rates are also climbing.

Cost to Society

The cost to society is enormous. A 2009 study of 900,000
people, published in The Lancet, found that moderate obesity
reduces life expectancy by two to four years, while severe
obesity shortens life expectancy by as much as 10 years. Obesity
has been shown to boost the risk of heart disease, diabetes,
some cancers, osteoarthritis, sleep apnea and stroke, according
to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The costs of
treating illness associated with obesity were estimated at $147
billion in 2008, according to a 2009 study in Health Affairs.
Sugars and fats, of course, have always been present in the
human diet and our bodies are programmed to crave them. What has
changed is modern processing that creates food with concentrated
levels of sugars, unhealthy fats and refined flour, without
redeeming levels of fiber or nutrients, obesity experts said.
Consumption of large quantities of those processed foods may be
changing the way the brain is wired.

A Lot Like Addiction

Those changes look a lot like addiction to some experts.
Addiction “is a loaded term, but there are aspects of the
modern diet that can elicit behavior that resembles addiction,”
said David Ludwig, a Harvard researcher and director of the New
Balance Foundation Obesity Prevention Center at Children’s
Hospital Boston. Highly processed foods may cause rapid spikes
and declines in blood sugar, increasing cravings, his research
has found.
Education, diets and drugs to treat obesity have proven
largely ineffective and the new science of obesity may explain
why, proponents say. Constant stimulation with tasty, calorie-
laden foods may desensitize the brain’s circuitry, leading
people to consume greater quantities of junk food to maintain a
constant state of pleasure.
In one 2010 study, scientists at Scripps Research Institute
in Jupiter, Florida, fed rats an array of fatty and sugary
products including Hormel Foods Corp. bacon, Sara Lee Corp.
pound cake, The Cheesecake Factory Inc. cheesecake and Pillsbury
Co. Creamy Supreme cake frosting. The study measured activity in
regions of the brain involved in registering reward and pleasure
through electrodes implanted in the rats.

Binge-Eating Rats

The rats that had access to these foods for one hour a day
started binge eating, even when more nutritious food was
available all day long. Other groups of rats that had access to
the sweets and fatty foods for 18 to 23 hours per day became
obese, Paul Kenny, the Scripps scientist heading the study wrote
in the journal Nature Neuroscience. The results produced the
same brain pattern that occurs with escalating intake of
cocaine, he wrote.
“To see food do the same thing was mind-boggling,” Kenny
later said in an interview.
Researchers are finding that damage to the brain’s reward
centers may occur when people eat excessive quantities of food.

Sweet Rewards

In one 2010 study conducted by researchers at the
University of Texas in Austin and the Oregon Research Institute,
a nonprofit group that studies human behavior, 26 overweight
young women were given magnetic resonance imaging scans as they
got sips of a milkshake made with Haagen-Dazs ice cream and
Hershey Co.’s chocolate syrup.
The same women got repeat MRI scans six months later. Those
who had gained weight showed reduced activity in the striatum, a
region of the brain that registers reward, when they sipped
milkshakes the second time, according to the study results,
published last year in the Journal of Neuroscience.
“A career of overeating causes blunted reward receipt, and
this is exactly what you see with chronic drug abuse,” said
Eric Stice, a researcher at the Oregon Research Institute.
Scientists studying food addiction have had to overcome
skepticism, even from their peers. In the late 1990s, NIDA’s
Volkow, then a drug addiction researcher at Brookhaven National
Laboratory on Long Island, applied for a National Institutes of
Health grant to scan obese people to see whether their brain
reward centers were affected. Her grant proposal was turned
down.

Finding Evidence

“I couldn’t get it funded,” she said in an interview.
“The response was, there is no evidence that food produces
addictive-like behaviors in the brain.”
Volkow, working with Brookhaven researcher Gene-Jack Wang,
cobbled together funding from another government agency to
conduct a study using a brain scanning device capable of
measuring chemical activity inside the body using radioactive
tracers.
Researchers were able to map dopamine receptor levels in
the brains of 10 obese volunteers. Dopamine is a chemical
produced in the brain that signals reward. Natural boosters of
dopamine include exercise and sexual activity, but drugs such as
cocaine and heroin also stimulate the chemical in large
quantities.
In drug abusers, brain receptors that receive the dopamine
signal may become unresponsive with increased drug usage,
causing drug abusers to steadily increase their dosage in search
of the same high. The Brookhaven study found that the obese
people also had lowered levels of dopamine receptors compared
with a lean control group.

Addicted to Sugar

The same year, psychologists at Princeton University began
studying whether lab rats could become addicted to a 10 percent
solution of sugar water, about the same percentage of sugar
contained in most soft drinks.
An occasional drink caused no problems for the lab animals.
Yet the researchers found dramatic effects when the rats were
allowed to drink sugar-water every day. Over time they drank
“more and more and more” while eating less of their usual
diet, said Nicole Avena, who began the work as a graduate
student at Princeton and is now a neuroscientist at the
University of Florida.
The animals also showed withdrawal symptoms, including
anxiety, shakes and tremors, when the effect of the sugar was
blocked with a drug. The scientists, moreover, were able to
determine changes in the levels of dopamine in the brain,
similar to those seen in animals on addictive drugs.
...

i knew it all along ... : )
 

OTMPut

Hall of Fame
Similar Behavior

“We consistently found that the changes we were observing
in the rats binging on sugar were like what we would see if the
animals were addicted to drugs,” said Avena, who for years
worked closely with the late Princeton psychologist, Bartley
Hoebel, who died this year.
While the animals didn’t become obese on sugar water alone,
they became overweight when Avena and her colleagues offered
them water sweetened with high-fructose corn syrup.
A 2007 French experiment stunned researchers when it showed
that rats prefer water sweetened with saccharine or sugar to
hits of cocaine -- exactly the opposite of what existing dogma
would have suggested.
“It was a big surprise,” said Serge Ahmed, a
neuroscientist who led the research for the French National
Research Council at the University of Bordeaux.
Yale’s Brownell helped organize one of the first
conferences on food addiction in 2007. Since then, a protégé,
Ashley Gearhardt, devised a 25-question survey to help
researchers spot people with eating habits that resemble
addictive behavior.

Pictures of Milkshakes

She and her colleagues used magnetic resonance imaging to
examine brain activity of women scoring high on the survey.
Pictures of milkshakes lit up the same brain regions that become
hyperactive in alcoholics anticipating a drink, according to
results published in the Archives of General Psychiatry in
April.
Food addiction research may reinvigorate the search for
effective obesity drugs, said Mark Gold, who chairs the
psychiatry department at the University of Florida in
Gainesville. Gold said the treatments he is working on seek to
alter food preferences without suppressing overall appetite.

Developing Treatments

“We are trying to develop treatments that interfere with
pathological food preferences,” he said. “Let’s say you are
addicted to ice cream, you might come up with a treatment that
blocked your interest in ice cream, but doesn’t affect your
interest in meat.”
In related work, Shire Plc, a Dublin-based drugmaker, is
testing its Vyvanse hyperactivity drug in patients with binge-
eating problems.
Not everyone is convinced. Swansea University psychologist
David Benton recently published a 16-page rebuttal to sugar
addiction studies. The paper, partly funded by the World Sugar
Research Organization, which includes Atlanta-based Coca-Cola,
the world’s largest soft-drink maker, argues that food doesn’t
produce the same kind of intense dopamine release seen with
drugs and that blocking certain brain receptors doesn’t produce
withdrawal symptoms in binge-eaters as it does in drug abusers.

Industry Response

What’s still unknown is whether the science of food
addition has begun to change the thinking among food and
beverage companies, which are, after all, primarily in the
business of selling the Doritos, Twinkies and other fare people
crave.
About 80 percent of Purchase, New York-based PepsiCo’s
marketing budget, for instance, is directed toward pushing salty
snacks and sodas. Although companies are quick to point to their
healthier offerings, their top executives are constantly called
upon to reassure investors those sales of snack foods and sodas
are showing steady growth.
“We want to see profit growth and revenue growth,” said
Tim Hoyle, director of research at Haverford Trust Co. in
Radnor, Pennsylvania, an investor in PepsiCo, the world’s
largest snack-food maker. “The health foods are good for
headlines but when it gets down to it, the growth drivers are
the comfort foods, the Tostitos and the Pepsi-Cola.”
Little wonder that the food industry is pushing hard on the
idea that the best way to get a handle on obesity is through
voluntary measures and by offering healthier choices. The same
tactic worked for awhile, decades ago, for the tobacco industry,
which deflected attention from the health risks and addictive
nature of cigarettes with “low tar and nicotine” marketing.
Food industry lobbyists don’t buy that argument -- or even
the idea that food addiction may exist. Said Richard Adamson, a
pharmacologist and consultant for the American Beverage
Association: “I have never heard of anyone robbing a bank to
get money to buy a candy bar or ice cream or pop.”

may be all diets are doomed to fail from the start.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Unsurprising but surprisingly interesting.

Food misuse understood as a harmful drug addiction could revolutionise its regulation.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Yes, if there are some 'smoking gun' documents where products are deliberately being engineered to create addiction then that will, indeed, cause a problem - in the long run.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
... which also leads to the confusion that it is fatty foods that make you fat when sugars are mainly to blame.
 

Chyeaah

Professional
Macca's is so addicting, but now its just normal bread and meat with salad D=... But i get 4 fizzers after tennis for sugar =D makes me feel much better.
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
"Addictive as cocaine" could be reworded as "not very addictive." Cocaine can be psychologically compelling for some but is not very addictive in a physiological sense, with usually a very mild abstinence syndrome in most users. People go on cocaine runs but usually can stop with relative ease.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
From everything I've read, the major issue is that, on average, people (americans) eat an average of 523 calories more per day than they did 50 years ago. That adds up fast.

An indictment on the fast food industry is that, in 1954, a burger, fries, and a drink was about 700 calories. Now it is at least double that. This is the issue brought up in the "super size me" movie.

And of course we can't forget that people live more sedentary lives.

It might be fun to sue everyone from Pepsico to McDonalds. It always makes for good water cooler talk and I think we'd all have a lot of fun gossiping about it. Obviously, it wouldn't change anything except some lawyers and a few lucky fat people would become instant millionaires. Sort of the "anti-jared" sweepstakes.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
As a recovering sugar addict, I can tell you sugar is very addictive. In fact, I'm coming down off of a Halloween candy high right now.

I have to get off the junk and stay off it, cold turkey. Moderation doesn't work for me at all.

Cindy -- who will try to stay clean through Easter and then have another wild binge
 

OTMPut

Hall of Fame
As a recovering sugar addict, I can tell you sugar is very addictive. In fact, I'm coming down off of a Halloween candy high right now.

I have to get off the junk and stay off it, cold turkey. Moderation doesn't work for me at all.

Cindy -- who will try to stay clean through Easter and then have another wild binge

30 years of sugary diet and it is damn difficult to change it.
i go low on sugar consumption (cut down soda, coffee, sweets, bakery items) i get head aches, i become easily irritable. and i find it very difficult to do "brain work" i.e. desk jobs involving a lot of reading decision making everyday.

i wish there is a medical treatment to deal with this.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
The fact that they may eat 523 more calories a day is a problem but the fact is also that you need to be very strongly oriented to the reward that those extra calories give you to want to eat and eat and that's where sugar comes into it.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
Well yes, I suppose. But its not sugar per se.

As Charliefeder like to point out often, you should eat a salad with every meal. Eat lots of vegetables. Why? The stomach signals "full" based on volume rather than calorie consumption. The more "water" you can eat, the fuller and satisfied you feel, but the fewer calories you consume.

Think about it this way. What if I were to put 5 medium apples in front of you and tell you to eat them? Most people would instictively say they couldn't do it. Too much. For most people, 2 apples is about all they can really handle and most people won't (desire) more than a single apple.

How about if I put a king sized bag of m&m's in front of you? Could you eat that? Most people can do that easily. Well guess what. That has about the same calories as those 5 apples that you can't eat.
 

beernutz

Hall of Fame
30 years of sugary diet and it is damn difficult to change it.
i go low on sugar consumption (cut down soda, coffee, sweets, bakery items) i get head aches, i become easily irritable. and i find it very difficult to do "brain work" i.e. desk jobs involving a lot of reading decision making everyday.

i wish there is a medical treatment to deal with this.
Believe it or not, the brain fog does go away after your body adjusts to fewer carbs, at least mine did. Many times those symptoms you mention are also caused by electrolyte imbalances or dropping Serotonin levels which can be compensated for. I know I am thinking more clearly now than at any other time in my adult life. It is also a great relief not having those carb cravings (or any cravings for that matter) constantly nagging me, particularly in the afternoons.
 

OTMPut

Hall of Fame
Believe it or not, the brain fog does go away after your body adjusts to fewer carbs, at least mine did. Many times those symptoms you mention are also caused by electrolyte imbalances or dropping Serotonin levels which can be compensated for. I know I am thinking more clearly now than at any other time in my adult life. It is also a great relief not having those carb cravings (or any cravings for that matter) constantly nagging me, particularly in the afternoons.

can you elaborate on it pse?
how can we compensate?

i am struggling with this. i attempted couple of times and i gave up after a week on both attempts because of the issues i mention.
 

OTMPut

Hall of Fame
Well yes, I suppose. But its not sugar per se.

As Charliefeder like to point out often, you should eat a salad with every meal. Eat lots of vegetables. Why? The stomach signals "full" based on volume rather than calorie consumption. The more "water" you can eat, the fuller and satisfied you feel, but the fewer calories you consume.

Think about it this way. What if I were to put 5 medium apples in front of you and tell you to eat them? Most people would instictively say they couldn't do it. Too much. For most people, 2 apples is about all they can really handle and most people won't (desire) more than a single apple.

How about if I put a king sized bag of m&m's in front of you? Could you eat that? Most people can do that easily. Well guess what. That has about the same calories as those 5 apples that you can't eat.

it is also about the speed of eating. one tends to wolf down fast food. by the time the stomach responds it is too late. you have over eaten and you feel sluggish.
 

beernutz

Hall of Fame
can you elaborate on it pse?
how can we compensate?

i am struggling with this. i attempted couple of times and i gave up after a week on both attempts because of the issues i mention.
For an electrolyte imbalance you drink electrolytes. Serotonin reduction seems to happen more with women than men, but if you believe it is affecting you there are many strategies for naturally increasing it. Here are 10: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/serotonin-boosters/
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
^^ Dietary strategies that increase brain serotonin CONTENT do not increase serotonin ACTIVITY and have no effect on mood. Review the work of Dr. Richard Wurtman of MIT in the 80s; he demonstrated the neurophysiology very elegantly.
 

NJ1

Professional
30 years of sugary diet and it is damn difficult to change it.
i go low on sugar consumption (cut down soda, coffee, sweets, bakery items) i get head aches, i become easily irritable. and i find it very difficult to do "brain work" i.e. desk jobs involving a lot of reading decision making everyday.

i wish there is a medical treatment to deal with this.

I can't figure out if you're being serious or not with this post, especially the last part.
 

NJ1

Professional
If you are, I would just try and fight through the headaches. They would surely go away within a week. Have you tried this for 7-10 days or is it normally a shorter period you return?

I very rarely drink soda, for reasons of the calories being empty and for the sake of my teeth. I have two friends who are addicted to diet soda, that stuff doesn't add pounds but it's even worse for your insides. The way it cleans a penny is not right.
 
....the juice from a citrus fruit will also clean a penny, as will the adidic contents of your stomach, so I'm not sure it's a reason to avoid something.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
30 years of sugary diet and it is damn difficult to change it.
i go low on sugar consumption (cut down soda, coffee, sweets, bakery items) i get head aches, i become easily irritable. and i find it very difficult to do "brain work" i.e. desk jobs involving a lot of reading decision making everyday.

i wish there is a medical treatment to deal with this.

You sound like a good candidate for cold turkey!

Try to go an entire month without any sugary things at all. It will feel awful at first, but after a while you will find it easy to resist sugar.

The last couple of years have been the only time in my life when I did not have to actively resist sugar.

I mean, I remember when my kids were little taking them to birthday parties. I would stand there the whole time hoping they would hurry up and serve the cake. Then I would have to force myself to have only one piece because eating a second piece of cake Is Simply Not Done. Remember, this is disgusting, flavorless kids' birthday cake. What adult wants to eat that?

Now, I can easily pass on sugary desserts, candy, sweetened soda (although I still drink diet sodas). If I do choose to have something sweet, I can eat a normal amount and then stop. It's awesome!!
 

NJ1

Professional
....the juice from a citrus fruit will also clean a penny, as will the adidic contents of your stomach, so I'm not sure it's a reason to avoid something.

Fair enough. But grapefruit don't contain aspartame and stress your kidneys. Soda, diet or otherwise, does no good.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
I'm going to reiterate that this Teaching Company course on nutrition is excellent. I've now gone through about half the lectures. The material is covered at a fairly in depth level. It is far more in depth than what is discussed on this site anyway.

If you are really interested in understanding the basic science (instead of simply relying on your own peculiar beliefs and prejudices), this course if for you.

I know it is changing some of my views (prejudices) and I will be making a few lifestyle changes because of what I have learned.

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=1950

Contributor Harvard Physician

Date:August 20, 2011

"I have been a physician at Harvard Hospital for over a quarter of a century. Every lecture I learned a substantial amount I had never learned before. Dieting, interested in healthy living, get this course. I own over the half the teaching companies courses and this is one of the best."
 
30 years of sugary diet and it is damn difficult to change it.
i go low on sugar consumption (cut down soda, coffee, sweets, bakery items) i get head aches, i become easily irritable. and i find it very difficult to do "brain work" i.e. desk jobs involving a lot of reading decision making everyday.

i wish there is a medical treatment to deal with this.


That sounds like a caffeine addiction to me, especially the headache part. Have you tested that?
Other than that, i can only say that like any other addiction, it's hard initially and slowly it gets better, so 'tough it out' is not bad advice in my opinion.
Personally i mainly crave salty things, the only processed sweetish thing i crave and keep at home is dark chocolate (sometimes dark chocolate covered almonds). If someone has a skittles bag i won't turn down a few of those, but i bought my last bag of them about 3 months ago. Then again i eat lots of fruits daily so i guess that takes care of things, i especially find rambutan to satisfy my sweet tooth.
 

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
I'm going to reiterate that this Teaching Company course on nutrition is excellent. I've now gone through about half the lectures. The material is covered at a fairly in depth level. It is far more in depth than what is discussed on this site anyway.

If you are really interested in understanding the basic science (instead of simply relying on your own peculiar beliefs and prejudices), this course if for you.

I know it is changing some of my views (prejudices) and I will be making a few lifestyle changes because of what I have learned.

http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/courses/course_detail.aspx?cid=1950

Contributor Harvard Physician

Date:August 20, 2011

"I have been a physician at Harvard Hospital for over a quarter of a century. Every lecture I learned a substantial amount I had never learned before. Dieting, interested in healthy living, get this course. I own over the half the teaching companies courses and this is one of the best."

OK, I'll bite. Name three things you learned that you didn't know before the course.
 

beernutz

Hall of Fame
^^ Dietary strategies that increase brain serotonin CONTENT do not increase serotonin ACTIVITY and have no effect on mood. Review the work of Dr. Richard Wurtman of MIT in the 80s; he demonstrated the neurophysiology very elegantly.
I don't believe Wurtman conclusively proved anything and there are lots of researchers who agree with me. How do you explain the effect of tryptophan supplementation on mood if Wurtman's claim that only carbohydrates eaten without protein can affect serotonin production and activity? I used to take tryptophan all the time prior to the big "scare" of the 80s and I know how well it works to increase serotonin activity and positively affect mood.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
OK, I'll bite. Name three things you learned that you didn't know before the course.

Somebody said you didn't bite.....

Three things? Damn, it isn't THAT good of a course.

The course just explains a bit more scientifically what we talk about on here everyday.

I'll probably make an effort to reduce my simple sugar intake a bit. I'll probably change my hydration routines. I'll look for my health and nutrition information specific sources instead of random searching.

Really what the course does is give a complete picture to things I only partly understood or are only partly talked about around here or are talked about from a certain perspective. I also undertand a bit more about what others are talking about, why they probably believe what they do, and how good of a belief it might be.

On sites like this, other internet sites, newpapers, magazines, etc, much of the information doesn't give the complete picture. Much of it is issue specific. You sort of miss the forest for the trees (or even the leaves of trees). That is what this course does best. It adds perspective.
 
^^ Dietary strategies that increase brain serotonin CONTENT do not increase serotonin ACTIVITY and have no effect on mood. Review the work of Dr. Richard Wurtman of MIT in the 80s; he demonstrated the neurophysiology very elegantly.
Well its hard to have activity if you dont have content (availability).
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
Let me reword it so you can keep up with the others: short of starvation, content is never rate-limiting, and extra content does not produce extra activity.
 
Let me reword it so you can keep up with the others: short of starvation, content is never rate-limiting, and extra content does not produce extra activity.

Well seems like there are differing opinions on this.

I don't believe Wurtman conclusively proved anything and there are lots of researchers who agree with me. How do you explain the effect of tryptophan supplementation on mood if Wurtman's claim that only carbohydrates eaten without protein can affect serotonin production and activity? I used to take tryptophan all the time prior to the big "scare" of the 80s and I know how well it works to increase serotonin activity and positively affect mood.

This is more in line with what I have read, and experienced.
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
If taking it yourself is proof to you that "it works to increase serotonin activity and positively affect mood," then we have different scientific standards. And what is the evidence that increasing serotonin activity improves mood?? There isn't any. Every biologic therapy that's ever been shown to improve mood, be it SSRIs, other antidepressants, ECT, or you name it has been shown to share one common effect -- downregulating beta NOREPINEPHRINE receptors.
 

GuyClinch

Legend
Huh? What a misnomer.. Those are sugary foods? Do you find yourself addicted to scrambled eggs and bacon. I don't. I never crave those. I don't mind em - but they sure the heck are not addictive.

OTOH sweet foods - hell yeah. Give me donuts, give me peanut butter cups etc etc. Often fatty and sweet go together so its a confusing issue - especially for the OP.

Actually one of the most interesting things I have ever seen on youtube is this..

Its about fructose being dangerous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Fascinating stuff - anyway he makes a very strong case that scientists in the last 30 years have had it COMPLETELY FIN WRONG..

It's not fatty foods that's the problem. It's the sugar addiction. Interestingly enough (and this was news to me) he presents evidence that fructose which is half of table sugar is digested much like liquor - with alot of similiar negative effects.

Its not just an empty calorie - like alot of startches its actually more harmful then fat. I don't know if you will agree or not but it makes the title of this thread really erroneous if you understand his point..
 

OTMPut

Hall of Fame
the title came straight from bloomberg. i am sure the reporter still believes that fat makes you fat.

i went cold turkey 6 days ago. no soda, no added sugar, no refined carbs. i had tough time for 5 days. head aches etc. persisting on. lets see how long i can go.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
It is funny that so many of us choose to rely on generalized information from the internet to make health and nutrition choices.

In my personal situation, I had our PEAK academy determine that my daily caloric needs are about 3,500. This is based on my height, weight, bodyfat (16%), activity level, and age.

My recommended carb consumption is (get ready for it), 600 grams or 2,400 carb calories per day (along with 60 fat grams and about 150 grams of protein).

Sugar really isn't my enemy. A low carb diet would simply leave me lethargic.
 
Last edited:
Carb does not equal sugar. But if you want to have 600 grams of sugar, have, what is it, 5 liters of Coke a day, or maybe 2½ liter and the rest in donuts, and see how unlethargic it leaves you.
And as for the fat, go for lard.
 

spacediver

Hall of Fame
In my personal situation, I had our PEAK academy determine that my daily caloric needs are about 3,500. This is based on my height, weight, bodyfat (16%), activity level, and age.

I never rely on these except as general guidelines. There is probably quite a bit of variance in these estimates.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
Well of course. From there you monitor how you feel. Are you getting enough energy for all your activity? Or do you feel tired / run down?

Or are you getting too much? Are you gaining weight?

I guess when I equate carbs to sugar, I'm just thinking about how they are broken down and used for fuel by the body. This little article does a good job explaining the advantage of complex vs. simple carbs.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/innovation/edible-innovations/food2.htm

And lard is not as bad as people seem to think. It has a higher saturated fat content than say sunflower or olive oil, but that's not all bad. I use it for some things. For some cooking its better than vegetable oil. If you flour coat your beef and brown it before baking, lard is excellent. It's great for pie crusts.
 
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Bartelby

Bionic Poster
I must confess that I find the smell of lard disgusting so I was happier when told it was bad for you, but I still wont use it. I'ts probably unnoticeable in baking.
 
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Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
In my personal situation, I had our PEAK academy determine that my daily caloric needs are about 3,500. This is based on my height, weight, bodyfat (16%), activity level, and age.

My recommended carb consumption is (get ready for it), 600 grams or 2,400 carb calories per day (along with 60 fat grams and about 150 grams of protein).

Sugar really isn't my enemy. A low carb diet would simply leave me lethargic.

Wow. I would explode if I ate 3500 calories a day. I'm probably 2000-2200.
 

Fifth Set

Professional
.
i wish there is a medical treatment to deal with this.

It is indeed interesting that there are many medications and medical devices to deal with the symptoms of being fat. This strange one just had a successful IPO. Human icicle anyone?!

http://www.coolsculpting.com/

Seemingly fewer to help you through the difficulties of dieting. Probably in part due to the #1 ingredient being something that can't be boiled down into a pill - desire.
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
Wow. I would explode if I ate 3500 calories a day. I'm probably 2000-2200.

That is my "lay in bed all day" BMR calorie needs.

When I was dieting, my wife swore I was eating more than normal. I actually just saved a high percentage of my daily calorie allotment for evening.

My biggest problem was always making sure I was eating enough calories on my diet. That's not good either.
 

spacediver

Hall of Fame
Wow. I would explode if I ate 3500 calories a day. I'm probably 2000-2200.

when I was lifting really heavy and trying to put on more weight, I was eating 5500 to 6000 a day. That was when I was approaching 180 pounds.

Now I'm 155 pounds, and I need about 3500-4000 a day just to maintain (that's with my biking, lifting, tennis, etc.)
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
when I was lifting really heavy and trying to put on more weight, I was eating 5500 to 6000 a day. That was when I was approaching 180 pounds.

Now I'm 155 pounds, and I need about 3500-4000 a day just to maintain (that's with my biking, lifting, tennis, etc.)

I weigh 60 more pounds than you and didn't need that much to gain weight and don't as much as you need to maintain.
 

spacediver

Hall of Fame
I weigh 60 more pounds than you and didn't need that much to gain weight and don't as much as you need to maintain.

I'm a naturally skinny guy - before I started lifting and eating proper I was under 120 pounds in my mid 20's (and 5'10).

So a lot of the extra weight is lean, which is metabolically expensive to maintain.

Also I'm very physically active.
 

beernutz

Hall of Fame
If taking it yourself is proof to you that "it works to increase serotonin activity and positively affect mood," then we have different scientific standards. And what is the evidence that increasing serotonin activity improves mood?? There isn't any. Every biologic therapy that's ever been shown to improve mood, be it SSRIs, other antidepressants, ECT, or you name it has been shown to share one common effect -- downregulating beta NOREPINEPHRINE receptors.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091305701006700
 

r2473

G.O.A.T.
I'm a naturally skinny guy - before I started lifting and eating proper I was under 120 pounds in my mid 20's (and 5'10).

So a lot of the extra weight is lean, which is metabolically expensive to maintain.

Also I'm very physically active.

Maybe, but I just did a bod pod compostion test and my LBM is 175. So at 0% bodyfat, I'd still weigh 20 more pounds than you do.

It's really hard to say how many extra calories you "need to" consume to maintain muslce. I've seen some people say 50 calories per pound and some say as low as 10 calories per pound.

At 5' 10" and 155 lbs., even if you are really lean, you probably aren't actually carrying more muslce than a man of the same height who is fully filled out. But I don't think you are fully filled out from the sounds of things.

I was actually the same weight as you much of my 20's, but I'm 2-3 inches taller than you, so I was really skinny. But I think I actually needed more calories in those days than I do now. Maybe about the same.
 
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