Federer disguise - do you see what I see?

[Tranqville]

When I watch tennis, I usually try to read the direction of play for each player. Most of the time, I can guess it right. With Federer, I keep getting it wrong, again and again. Is it just me? Even the matches I saw many times before, like the 5th set of AU 2017, when I rewatch them, I keep misreading him.

I remember one match where commentators tried to predict his serve direction and always failed. I'm not even talking about the serve. Just a regular rally ball. Is it true, what I see? Does Federer indeed have such an amazing disguise and misdirection? How does he do it? I have been watching Federer for years and I'm puzzled. I'm supposed to get a read on him, but I just can't. I wonder if anyone can relate.

 

[MeatTornado]

Is it just me?

Just you and about 300 professional players

 

[Tranqville]

I watched some videos on tactics. I understand the basics - defensive ball cross-court or to the middle, neutral ball cross-court, attacking short balls down the line, hitting behind the player, or attacking down the middle. I'm used to the patterns of play for most pro players after watching thousands of hours of tennis on TV. Federer just mocks my understanding and anticipation every single time.

 

[junior74]

I think that's a fair chunk of the legend. Surpriserer.

 

[socallefty]

Is it just me?

It’s just you - you are blinded by your admiration of him. He is textbook in terms of Wardlaw directionals with his decision-making and shot selection during rallies. If anything he changes the direction of the ball to go DTL much less than Djokovic as his comfort zone is hitting more FHs (including inside-out) than BHs. He uses the slice as an offensive BH weapon more than most players, but you can usually tell when he gets a ball he can attack with his slice.

He doesn’t win by disguise, but because he has bigger weapons and high-level consistency compared to just about every other player and he executes well day after day with rarely any bad days.

 

[Yugram]

It is just you. Federer’s pattern is too predictable:

Hit sharp first serve, hit forehand/run to the net mindlessly. If rally continues, move on to the next point.

Boring

 

[Tranqville]

I think that's a fair chunk of the legend. Surpriserer.

I mean, I'm not even talking about that ridiculously high drop shot vs Berdych that left him completely dumbfounded. Just like every other rally ball, I'm getting wrong.

 

[Tranqville]

He is textbook in terms of Wardlaw directionals with his decision-making and shot selection during rallies.

Never heard of Wardlaw directionals, I will check it out!

 

[gjm127]

Apparently his ball toss is absolutely unreadable. There is no way to even slightly be able to guess where the ball is going when you're on the other side of the court. Kinda cool. I think Murray was saying this in an interview.

 

[Kralingen]

It’s his insane wrist flexibility and subsequent lag that he gets. Tennis is a physical sport, there is no magic involved. It all has an explanation when you get down to the technique. With Fed’s it’s his golden wrist.

a) Fed’s eyes are always looking at the ball for contact ; usually you can read a player’s eyes or neck direction to tell where they’ll hit, not him

b) his wrist hits acute angles like the Exorcist nearly every time he hit a FH in his prime.. So when 99% of other players would have hit the ball his wrist is still laid back generating velocity before snapping

c) maybe it just looks like that bc the opposing players can’t tell and get confused. Not hard to wrong foot guys when you’re playing in the Baghdatis era though LMAO

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

It’s just you - you are blinded by your admiration of him. He is textbook in terms of Wardlaw directionals with his decision-making and shot selection during rallies. If anything he changes the direction of the ball to go DTL much less than Djokovic as his comfort zone is hitting more FHs (including inside-out) than BHs. He uses the slice as an offensive BH weapon more than most players, but you can usually tell when he gets a ball he can attack with his slice.

He doesn’t win by disguise, but because he has bigger weapons and high-level consistency compared to just about every other player and he executes well day after day with rarely any bad days.

This covers the backhand but not the forehand or the serve. Now tell us Federer doesn't have particular disguise on serve and couldn't hit any kind of forehand when he was prime-fit, lel.

 

[Third Serve]

His serve is practically unreadable and even a returner like Djokovic has a hard time guessing it. I think other players like Murray have commented on it being particularly difficult to read. The rest of his game does incorporate some disguise but the serve is the big one.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Don't forget the slice and dropshot disguise either. Both are excellent and have wrongfooted anyone many times.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

It is just you. Federer’s pattern is too predictable:

Hit sharp first serve, hit forehand/run to the net mindlessly. If rally continues, move on to the next point.

Boring

Deep spin forehand to da backhand is bery bery unpredicktabull though, amirite?

 

[Jokervich]

When I watch tennis, I usually try to read the direction of play for each player. Most of the time, I can guess it right. With Federer, I keep getting it wrong, again and again. Is it just me? Even the matches I saw many times before, like the 5th set of AU 2017, when I rewatch them, I keep misreading him.

I remember one match where commentators tried to predict his serve direction and always failed. I'm not even talking about the serve. Just a regular rally ball. Is it true, what I see? Does Federer indeed have such an amazing disguise and misdirection? How does he do it? I have been watching Federer for years and I'm puzzled. I'm supposed to get a read on him, but I just can't. I wonder if anyone can relate.

In my experience, when I'm watching a tennis match or some highlights, you can tell with a lot of players where they will hit the ball roughly half a second before they do. The earlier you can anticipate this, the easier it becomes to beat a player - you just need the athletic ability to get to the ball and then execute your own shot.

With Federer, I often watched his matches and you have to guess where he will hit the ball later than other players, because his racquet swing is much faster than other players and he changes direction at the last moment - both on the serve and during normal rallies. I felt myself getting better and better the more matches of his I watched, but it's still very tough to read his shots. On his serve, he will have a slight bend of the racquet head just as he is about the hit the ball and if you can anticipate that, the serve becomes easier to read - even so, you will guess wrong a decent chunk of the time, because of how late it comes in the service motion and how little time you have to react.

I'm sure if you studied his matches closely for many many hours, you could guess effectively. But he gives you less time to guess the shot direction than other players do, for the reasons I stated.

Anyway, I'm no expert but I hope that helps. Someone like Djokovic and his team would have no doubt studied Federer religiously in order to beat him as much as he did.

 

[Breakpointerer]

It is just you. Federer’s pattern is too predictable:

Hit sharp first serve, hit forehand/run to the net mindlessly. If rally continues, move on to the next point.

Boring

lmao

 

[Sir Weed]

Apparently his ball toss is absolutely unreadable. There is no way to even slightly be able to guess where the ball is going when you're on the other side of the court. Kinda cool. I think Murray was saying this in an interview.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Sampras said in 2017, "people out there, mostly non-tennis players, think that the speed of the serve is like the biggest thing... it's isn't. Disguise and placement are the big things when you receive serve. For me, Federer has the best disguise of anyone I've ever played or seen. There was no way for me to pick it.... when Goran served, I almost always knew where it was going. With Roger, honestly I never had any idea. That's a big part of being a really great server."

 

[big ted]

Apparently his ball toss is absolutely unreadable. There is no way to even slightly be able to guess where the ball is going when you're on the other side of the court. Kinda cool. I think Murray was saying this in an interview.

His serve is practically unreadable and even a returner like Djokovic has a hard time guessing it. I think other players like Murray have commented on it being particularly difficult to read. The rest of his game does incorporate some disguise but the serve is the big one.

Sampras said in 2017, "people out there, mostly non-tennis players, think that the speed of the serve is like the biggest thing... it's isn't. Disguise and placement are the big things when you receive serve. For me, Federer has the best disguise of anyone I've ever played or seen. There was no way for me to pick it.... when Goran served, I almost always knew where it was going. With Roger, honestly I never had any idea. That's a big part of being a really great server."

theres a video i saw where hes practicing his serve and his coach tells him where to hit it but not until after he tosses it... thats gotta help

 

[Jokervich]

Apparently his ball toss is absolutely unreadable. There is no way to even slightly be able to guess where the ball is going when you're on the other side of the court. Kinda cool. I think Murray was saying this in an interview.

It must have been readable, otherwise how could Djokovic and Nadal beat him? Murray was not the same caliber as these guys.

 

[tennis_pro]

I remember when I really started to get into tennis around 2007, I remember watching the US Open like it was yesterday and I watched tons of Fed's matches. Till this day I have no idea how anyone could live with peak Fed, he was wrongfooting his opponents at will.

 

[Third Serve]

theres a video i saw where hes practicing his serve and his coach tells him where to hit it but not until after he tosses it... thats gotta help

Huh, that’s a pretty neat coaching tactic

 

[Deleted member 629564]

Does Federer indeed have such an amazing disguise and misdirection? How does he do it?

Look at this:

Wimbledon 2019 final

5th set, game #15, Djokovic to serve
7:7 30-30
N1 UFE (out, ad sideline)
N2 FH to deuce court
N3 no response to long cross-court ball, no volley

(4 minutes later)

5th set, game #16, Federer to serve
8:7 40-15
R1 UFE (out, ad sideline) [see N1]
R2 FH to deuce court [see N2]
R3 no response to long cross-court ball, no volley [see N3]

It's a bit puzzling, isn't it?

 

[The Big Foe fan]

When I watch tennis, I usually try to read the direction of play for each player. Most of the time, I can guess it right. With Federer, I keep getting it wrong, again and again. Is it just me? Even the matches I saw many times before, like the 5th set of AU 2017, when I rewatch them, I keep misreading him.

I remember one match where commentators tried to predict his serve direction and always failed. I'm not even talking about the serve. Just a regular rally ball. Is it true, what I see? Does Federer indeed have such an amazing disguise and misdirection? How does he do it? I have been watching Federer for years and I'm puzzled. I'm supposed to get a read on him, but I just can't. I wonder if anyone can relate.

Choke too

 

[Artanis]

Not sure is he is the most impredictable, but for sure is one of the fastest hitters/decision maker and is hitting ball on the rise more often.

 

[ghostofMecir]

When I watch tennis, I usually try to read the direction of play for each player. Most of the time, I can guess it right. With Federer, I keep getting it wrong, again and again. Is it just me? Even the matches I saw many times before, like the 5th set of AU 2017, when I rewatch them, I keep misreading him.

I remember one match where commentators tried to predict his serve direction and always failed. I'm not even talking about the serve. Just a regular rally ball. Is it true, what I see? Does Federer indeed have such an amazing disguise and misdirection? How does he do it? I have been watching Federer for years and I'm puzzled. I'm supposed to get a read on him, but I just can't. I wonder if anyone can relate.

Apparently his ball toss is absolutely unreadable. There is no way to even slightly be able to guess where the ball is going when you're on the other side of the court. Kinda cool. I think Murray was saying this in an interview.

The toss is perfection…absolutely still, no way of knowing where it is going. It’s the reason why all-time great returners like Djoko and Murray have had difficulty at times in returning 110-113 mph serves (not out wide on the deuce court that’s naturally going to be slower due to the slice motion). Djokovic’s improvement on serve has been due to his own perfection of the toss.

I remember when I really started to get into tennis around 2007, I remember watching the US Open like it was yesterday and I watched tons of Fed's matches. Till this day I have no idea how anyone could live with peak Fed, he was wrongfooting his opponents at will.

On the FH, Federer can disguise where it’s headed because he takes it so early and can even when ”holding“ the ball late, he can get a good, clean swing.

 

[ghostofMecir]

Choke too

Yes, it was a choke. Weird that prime Djokovic needed a 38 old geriatric to choke and hand him the match after wining more serve points, return points, breaking more often holding serve the entire match with a 110 mph serve, etc., than blow him off the court

 

[ghostofMecir]

It is just you. Federer’s pattern is too predictable:

Hit sharp first serve, hit forehand/run to the net mindlessly. If rally continues, move on to the next point.

Boring

Yes these sharp 107 mph serves and hit FH. Wonder why nobody else does this.

 

[DjokoLand]

It is just you. Federer’s pattern is too predictable:

Hit sharp first serve, hit forehand/run to the net mindlessly. If rally continues, move on to the next point.

Boring

He’s actually one of the best at footwork, FH, volleys and moving forward but I agree he is predictable and I feel it was the biggest downfall in the Nadal matchup in his prime

 

[tex123]

Good God! All this Federer a* se licking is embarrassing here. Is he some magician that he's conjuring up low percentage shots and winning all the time against opponents? He's playing percentages and that's why he's got 20 Slams. If not, he'll be Kyrgios. Try guessing Kyrgios' pattern of play. Watching TV and guessing pattern of play is not the same thing as playing your opponent.

His serve is unpredictable but not to the extent Sampras' serve was. When Sampras used to practice his serve his coach used to shout after the ball toss which way to go. That's how unpredictable Sampras' serve was.

 

[Third Serve]

His serve is unpredictable but not to the extent Sampras' serve was. When Sampras used to practice his serve his coach used to shout after the ball toss which way to go. That's how unpredictable Sampras' serve was.

Seems like this is a story shared by Federer if this post is to be believed:

theres a video i saw where hes practicing his serve and his coach tells him where to hit it but not until after he tosses it... thats gotta help

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Good God! All this Federer a* se licking is embarrassing here. Is he some magician that he's conjuring up low percentage shots and winning all the time against opponents? He's playing percentages and that's why he's got 20 Slams. If not, he'll be Kyrgios. Try guessing Kyrgios' pattern of play. Watching TV and guessing pattern of play is not the same thing as playing your opponent.

His serve is unpredictable but not to the extent Sampras' serve was. When Sampras used to practice his serve his coach used to shout after the ball toss which way to go. That's how unpredictable Sampras' serve was.

Well, not much to be embarrassed about these days since we found out he's a historically irrelevant weak era vulture who got bagelled at Wimbledon in his absolute peak.

 

[King_olaf_the_hairy]

theres a video i saw where hes practicing his serve and his coach tells him where to hit it but not until after he tosses it... thats gotta help

Huh, that’s a pretty neat coaching tactic

"One of the drills we had, he would toss the ball and I would call the serve. He could react that quickly, so that nobody is able to read his serve. He can kick, slice and go flat off the same motion, that's one of the reasons he got so many aces."

---Pete Sampras' former coach Pete Fischer, excerpted from "The Mechanics Behind a Big Serve" by Samantha Stevenson, New York Times, September 10, 1990

 

[The Big Foe fan]

Yes, it was a choke. Weird that prime Djokovic needed a 38 old geriatric to choke and hand him the match after wining more serve points, return points, breaking more often holding serve the entire match with a 110 mph serve, etc., than blow him off the court

Whatever it is bruh, but aye, age wasn't fed's excuse in 4 of his biggest career losses in slams, clutch and mental toughness were.
Uso 2009
Wim 2019
Ao 2009
Uso 2011

 

[ghostofMecir]

Whatever it is bruh, but aye, age wasn't fed's excuse in 4 of his biggest career losses in slams, clutch and mental toughness were.
Uso 2009
Wim 2019
Ao 2009
Uso 2011

Shifting the goalposts, I see, bruh

 

[The Big Foe fan]

Shifting the goalposts, I see, bruh

No but fed had no age excuse in those losses unlike the following

Wim 2014
Wim 2008
Wim 2015

I've got no more power to argue more, bruh. Off to blanket now.

 

[tennis tom]

His serve is practically unreadable and even a returner like Djokovic has a hard time guessing it. I think other players like Murray have commented on it being particularly difficult to read. The rest of his game does incorporate some disguise but the serve is the big one.

Yup!--and since the serve is the most important shot in tennis, it gives RF all the edge he needs to win.

 

[Third Serve]

Yup!--and since the serve is the most important shot in tennis, it gives RF all the edge he needs to win.

Yeah these days, even with Fed’s declined ground game and the MPH he’s taken off the serve, he can still cause serious trouble to his opponents with his serve placement.

 

[tennis tom]

In my experience, when I'm watching a tennis match or some highlights, you can tell with a lot of players where they will hit the ball roughly half a second before they do. The earlier you can anticipate this, the easier it becomes to beat a player - you just need the athletic ability to get to the ball and then execute your own shot.

With Federer, I often watched his matches and you have to guess where he will hit the ball later than other players, because his racquet swing is much faster than other players and he changes direction at the last moment - both on the serve and during normal rallies. I felt myself getting better and better the more matches of his I watched, but it's still very tough to read his shots. On his serve, he will have a slight bend of the racquet head just as he is about the hit the ball and if you can anticipate that, the serve becomes easier to read - even so, you will guess wrong a decent chunk of the time, because of how late it comes in the service motion and how little time you have to react.

I'm sure if you studied his matches closely for many many hours, you could guess effectively. But he gives you less time to guess the shot direction than other players do, for the reasons I stated.

Anyway, I'm no expert but I hope that helps. Someone like Djokovic and his team would have no doubt studied Federer religiously in order to beat him as much as he did.

Yup!--Excellent analysis--and I bet young RF studied Pete's matches also, as do I, Pistol Pete's my hero in the modern era.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

It’s just you - you are blinded by your admiration of him. He is textbook in terms of Wardlaw directionals with his decision-making and shot selection during rallies. If anything he changes the direction of the ball to go DTL much less than Djokovic as his comfort zone is hitting more FHs (including inside-out) than BHs. He uses the slice as an offensive BH weapon more than most players, but you can usually tell when he gets a ball he can attack with his slice.

He doesn’t win by disguise, but because he has bigger weapons and high-level consistency compared to just about every other player and he executes well day after day with rarely any bad days.

Nah.

 

[Gazelle]

It must have been readable, otherwise how could Djokovic and Nadal beat him? Murray was not the same caliber as these guys.

Something called reflexes

 

[abmk]

fed is textbook with his decision-making and shot selection during rallies

I see LOLfty aka @socallefty is speaking nonsense again. Guy was already mediocre in terms of tennis posting before 2021. Now with 2021 Djoko success going to his head, he's turned into utter complete sh*te in that regard.

 

[gadge]

Serve is unreadable but ground strokes not so much.

 

[Daniel Andrade]

It’s just you - you are blinded by your admiration of him. He is textbook in terms of Wardlaw directionals with his decision-making and shot selection during rallies. If anything he changes the direction of the ball to go DTL much less than Djokovic as his comfort zone is hitting more FHs (including inside-out) than BHs. He uses the slice as an offensive BH weapon more than most players, but you can usually tell when he gets a ball he can attack with his slice.

He doesn’t win by disguise, but because he has bigger weapons and high-level consistency compared to just about every other player and he executes well day after day with rarely any bad days.

I would say he's textbook Wardlaw, at least before 2017 a lot with his backhand, however I don't I think it applies that much to his forehand.

 

[Fabresque]

It must have been readable, otherwise how could Djokovic and Nadal beat him? Murray was not the same caliber as these guys.

Readability only gets you so far if you have glaring cracks in your game. Namely- backhand and shot tolerance. Djokovic and Nadal for the most part succumbed to the first serve like anybody else, but exploited his other problems when he had to hit a 2nd serve.

 

[socallefty]

I would say he's textbook Wardlaw, at least before 2017 a lot with his backhand, however I don't I think it applies that much to his forehand.

Thanks. Didn't know Wardlaw existed

You posted today that you just found out what Wardlaw means. I am sure TTW is now eagerly awaiting your insights about whether Federer followed Wardlaw or not considering that his career started 25 frigging years ago. Did Federer hit a lot of DTL FHs or inside-in FHs off neutral or defensive shots when you say he doesn’t follow Wardlaw?

 

[aldeayeah]

Take off your disguise

I know that underneath

Is me

 

[Russeljones]

It’s just you - you are blinded by your admiration of him. He is textbook in terms of Wardlaw directionals with his decision-making and shot selection during rallies. If anything he changes the direction of the ball to go DTL much less than Djokovic as his comfort zone is hitting more FHs (including inside-out) than BHs. He uses the slice as an offensive BH weapon more than most players, but you can usually tell when he gets a ball he can attack with his slice.

He doesn’t win by disguise, but because he has bigger weapons and high-level consistency compared to just about every other player and he executes well day after day with rarely any bad days.

Tried so hard only to miss the point entirely. Sad. Sad.

 

[Sudacafan]

I could never predict the direction of his backhand shanks.

 

[Daniel Andrade]

You posted today that you just found out what Wardlaw means. I am sure TTW is now eagerly awaiting your insights about whether Federer followed Wardlaw or not considering that his career started 25 frigging years ago. Did Federer hit a lot of DTL FHs or inside-in FHs off neutral or defensive shots when you say he doesn’t follow Wardlaw?

Dude, there's no need in getting angry lmao