Federer is now 1-9 against #1 at Slams

[SaintPetros]

Judging by your name and avatar, you just want anyone to defeat Federer, because he bested Pete.

I was a huge Pete fan, but accept he has been bested by not one, but three players since.

Well Rafa is definitely going to pass Roger so I'm not worried on that account, appreciate your concern though.

I assume you're going to accept Roger has been bested by not one but two players very soon as well.

 

[Deleted member 744633]

Djokovic is 4-4 against Wawrinka in slams.That tells a lot on how accurate the h2h is as a measurement in determining who is the greater player.Tennis is not boxing at the end of the day.H2H maniacs, if there is an exception to your theory, that means that your entire theory is wrong.

Anyone know when was the last time Djokovic beat Wawrinka in a slam?

 

[Deleted member 744633]

#1. Sampras was retired and Federer was chasing a fixed target whilst being in his absolute prime. So it was expected that the rate at which Federer was racking up slams, he would one day overtake Pete. And FYI, Fed was proclaimed GOAT only after he overtook Sampras. Only some fanatics and fan-boys crowned him before he got to 15. Most of the tennis/RF fans waited till he got to 15 to claim GOAThood, which was normal.

#2 Federer is still a moving target. He is not done yet. He is slower and more prone to upsets, definitely. But till he plays, he remains a moving target, unlike Sampras. He will always have a fair shot at Wimbledon.

#3 Nadal has not been able to beat Fedovic off clay for the last 5 years. The streak is now 14-0. So if he meets one of these 2 outside FO(or even Medvedev for that matter), the odds are stacked against him. He has not figured them out outside clay

#4 Nadal had quite a subpar clay season in 2019, by his standards. His level was far far from his prime and he just about found another gear in time for the French Open. Luckily from him, there is only Thiem posing a challenge on that surface and he hasn't shown enough gumption to take down Nadal. But the cracks were there to be seen in 2019. He isn't getting any younger next year.

#5 New gen is finally getting their act together. Shanghai is a sign of things to come. Medvedev having the hottest streak by a youngster since forever. Tsitsipas coming into his own this year beating Federer and Djokovic on hard and Nadal on clay. Zverev showing signs of potential. Many other youngsters who could break new gorund in 2020 like Shapo and FAA.

The situation is a lot more complicated than it looks. Yes, there are few things more certain in life than Rafa winning RG, but hold your horses. Don't count the chickens before they hatch because neither is Fed done, nor is Rafa in his absolute prime to be making over-confident predictions.

All good points but you're forgetting that Djokovic isn't far behind. Another multi-slam year and he'll be right on Federer's doorstep. That record isn't going to last long.

 

[MichaelNadal]

I agree. Djokovic was in control. No discussion.

"Ooooh, yeah, if he says that is OK."

Epic

 

[JaoSousa]

Outside the supposed peak he was very bad then, much worse than Djokovic and Nadal.

Vs #1 at Slams:

Nadal 8-6
Djokovic 3-5
Federer 1-9

Lol most of nadals are just beating fed and novak at rg

 

[SaintPetros]

All good points but you're forgetting that Djokovic isn't far behind. Another multi-slam year and he'll be right on Federer's doorstep. That record isn't going to last long.

Shhhhhhhh, they don't know yet

 

[Deleted member 744633]

Shhhhhhhh, they don't know yet

LOL

 

[Third Serve]

ITT: Fedophiles in HEAVY denial

That's a new one on me.

 

[Sudacafan]

Yeah...

... some Fedfans need to accept stats without getting so riled up.

Tennis, it's just our hobby, not a cosmic revelation.

Incorrect. We Fedfans choose and create our own stats; no way we can let others do that sensitive job for us.

 

[steelcity32]

That's a new one on me.

it's a good one

 

[Third Serve]

it's a good one

Sounds an awful lot like that other word, doesn't it?

 

[steelcity32]

Sounds an awful lot like that other word, doesn't it?

Hmmmm
But nah, Fedophile means Fedfan if you're just translating based off English conventions

 

[Third Serve]

Hmmmm
But nah, Fedophile means Fedfan if you're just translating based off English conventions

Fair enough, I guess. Federer's name can be squeezed into any word, really.

 

[SaintPetros]

ROFLMAO at all the Frauderinas attempting to skew, distort, and contort the stats.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Hmmmm
.... if you're just translating based off English conventions

Soon you will not need to worry about "English conventions".

 

[steelcity32]

Soon you will not need to worry about "English conventions".

 

[zep]

ITT: Fedophiles in HEAVY denial

Juju and Nadal? lmao nice ps

 

[Lew II]

Federer in Slams has 32.35% of wins against players ranked higher than him, which places him in the 42th position among active players and 294th position in the Open Era.

He's been a dominant #1 but a terrible underdog.

 

[steelcity32]

Juju and Nadal? lmao nice ps

lol had to combine my faves

 

[Lew II]

Slam win percentage against lower ranked players:

Borg 92.54
Djokovic 90.94
Federer 90.81
Murray 90.77
Nadal 90.53
Connors 88.70
Wilander 87.50
Sampras 87.04
Lendl 86.94
Edberg 86.01
Agassi 85.36
McEnroe 84.71
Becker 83.24

Slam win percentage against higher ranked players:

Becker 63.33
McEnroe 61.76
Sampras 60.00
Nadal 54.17
Djokovic 52.78
Agassi 52.63
Wilander 52.38
Connors 43.75
Edberg 38.71
Borg 36.36
Federer 32.35
Murray 30.77
Lendl 30.43

 

[steelcity32]

Slam win percentage against lower ranked players:

Borg 92.54
Djokovic 90.94
Federer 90.81
Murray 90.77
Nadal 90.53
Connors 88.70
Wilander 87.50
Sampras 87.04
Lendl 86.94
Edberg 86.01
Agassi 85.36
McEnroe 84.71
Becker 83.24

Slam win percentage against higher ranked players:

Becker 63.33
McEnroe 61.76
Sampras 60.00
Nadal 54.17
Djokovic 52.78
Agassi 52.63
Wilander 52.38
Connors 43.75
Edberg 38.71
Borg 36.36
Federer 32.35
Murray 30.77
Lendl 30.43

Good find

 

[Druss]

Federer in Slams has 32.35% of wins against players ranked higher than him, which places him in the 42th position among active players and 294th position in the Open Era.

He's been a dominant #1 but a terrible underdog.

Out of curiousity, what's Murray's position?
Edit: nevermind you just answered it on post #121. Not much difference, I guess Fed = Murray.

 

[zep]

lol had to combine my faves

boy fumbled the season away tho

 

[steelcity32]

boy fumbled the season away tho

Ehh in hindsight we wouldn't have done a thing in the playoffs with that defense and AB in full clown mode. This season, that could change, if the Ravens lose the games they should lose coming up and we stay healthy.

 

[zep]

Ehh in hindsight we wouldn't have done a thing in the playoffs with that defense and AB in full clown mode. This season, that could change, if the Ravens lose the games they should lose coming up and we stay healthy.

Yeah but Tuitt is done for the season now that's a big blow and Juju fumbled against the Ravens too.

 

[steelcity32]

Yeah but Tuitt is done for the season now that's a big blow and Juju fumbled against the Ravens too.

It's a shame. All up to Alualu; Chargers game gave me hope. Guys across the league are dropping like flies this year.

 

[Linelicker]

Fred's dead, baby. Fred's dead.

 

[Service Ace]

Slam win percentage against lower ranked players:

Borg 92.54
Djokovic 90.94
Federer 90.81
Murray 90.77
Nadal 90.53
Connors 88.70
Wilander 87.50
Sampras 87.04
Lendl 86.94
Edberg 86.01
Agassi 85.36
McEnroe 84.71
Becker 83.24

Slam win percentage against higher ranked players:

Becker 63.33
McEnroe 61.76
Sampras 60.00
Nadal 54.17
Djokovic 52.78
Agassi 52.63
Wilander 52.38
Connors 43.75
Edberg 38.71
Borg 36.36
Federer 32.35
Murray 30.77
Lendl 30.43

Sampras has the highest combined total, confirmed mental GOAT.

 

[Lew II]

Sampras has the highest combined total, confirmed mental GOAT.

Well the sample size is very different. I don't think the two charts should be combined.

 

[ForehandRF]

Anyone know when was the last time Djokovic beat Wawrinka in a slam?

2015 AO

 

[Rhino]

...And yet he is still the undisputed GOAT. 20 Grand Slams don't lie.

But congrats on bringing up a random stat that nobody in tennis or sports will ever remember or care about, that took some digging.

 

[Lew II]

...And yet he is still the undisputed GOAT. 20 Grand Slams don't lie.

But congrats on bringing up a random stat that nobody in tennis or sports will ever remember or care about, that took some digging.

Well actually most tennis fans know that Federer has been the punchbag of Nadal and Djokovic.

The 1-9 against #1 is for real experts.

 

[Towny]

Well actually most tennis fans know that Federer has been the punchbag of Nadal and Djokovic.

The 1-9 against #1 is for real experts.

If you were consistent on this point, you'd hail Nadal the GOAT. 8-6 is far better than 3-5

 

[tennisaddict]

Loving the fact that Lew despises Fed’s success so much .

How many different versions of the same topic is the dim wit who thinks Stakhovsky win-loss better than Wilander , allowed to open ?

 

[Lew II]

If you were consistent on this point, you'd hail Nadal the GOAT. 8-6 is far better than 3-5

I don't think there's a single stat that determines the GOAT.

 

[Towny]

I don't think there's a single stat that determines the GOAT.

Yes, but Nadal has quite the case doesn't he? Ahead in slams and masters. Better winning percentage in slams and overall. Leads the slam H2H against Novak. Now you have demonstrated he is far better playing against the number 1 than Djokovic.

I know you make these threads to denigrate Federer, but you're actually making Djokovic look worse with them too

 

[Lew II]

Yes, but Nadal has quite the case doesn't he? Ahead in slams and masters. Better winning percentage in slams and overall. Leads the slam H2H against Novak. Now you have demonstrated he is far better playing against the number 1 than Djokovic.

I know you make these threads to denigrate Federer, but you're actually making Djokovic look worse with them too

6 of Nadal's 8 wins over the #1 were at RG.

 

[Towny]

6 of Nadal's 8 wins over the #1 were at RG.

Yes so 6 wins there and then 2 wins outside. Djokovic has one win at his pet slam and 2 wins outside

This highlights Nadal's supreme dominance at RG, surpassing both Federer at Wimbledon and Djokovic at the AO.

Then factor in that Nadal's 2 wins outside RG came against Fed at Wimbledon (8 time champion) and Djokovic at the US open (3 time champion) compared to Djokovic's 2 wins coming against Nadal at Wimbledon (2 time champion).

 

[Lleytonstation]

Yes, but Nadal has quite the case doesn't he? Ahead in slams and masters. Better winning percentage in slams and overall. Leads the slam H2H against Novak. Now you have demonstrated he is far better playing against the number 1 than Djokovic.

I know you make these threads to denigrate Federer, but you're actually making Djokovic look worse with them too

That's their problem. They always do this. They also make djoker look bad when they downgrade Fed, as they use that as the bar to show how great he is.

 

[Towny]

That's their problem. They always do this. They also make djoker look bad when they downgrade Fed, as they use that as the bar to show how great he is.

Yes, which leads me to question how much it is about supporting/liking Djokovic and how much of it is just about hating Federer.

 

[UnderratedSlam]

Fedal, yes.

Novak Djokovic is like the red headed stepchild who we have to give some attention to - but in the long run, he's not really relevant in the GOAT debate.

Did you just post that to annoy the Novak fans?

Because it kinda sounds like that.

You don't actually believe that, do you?

 

[Deleted member 744633]

2015 AO

Thanks Forehand! Otha, Djokovic hasn't beaten Stan at a slam since AO 2015? Am I glad that Stan is no longer at or near his prime. Any more beatings at the hands of that man and Djokovic may never turn it around.

 

[NoleFam]

Yes so 6 wins there and then 2 wins outside. Djokovic has one win at his pet slam and 2 wins outside

This highlights Nadal's supreme dominance at RG, surpassing both Federer at Wimbledon and Djokovic at the AO.

Then factor in that Nadal's 2 wins outside RG came against Fed at Wimbledon (8 time champion) and Djokovic at the US open (3 time champion) compared to Djokovic's 2 wins coming against Nadal at Wimbledon (2 time champion).

Nadal is of course more dominant at his pet Slam that the other two are at theirs, but I would say this stat does somewhat reflect that he played them much more at his pet Slam that they did at his, especially Djokovic. Nadal played the other two 13 times at RG compared to Federer playing them 8 times at his Slam and Djokovic playing them 6 times at his. The more matches you play at your best Slam, the more that usually plays into your favor.

 

[NFN]

@Towny
Hating on Federer in this case. But not all Ultron fans are bad

 

[Krish0608]

Yes, he did get better by 07. New challenges and adapting does not mean you are better, but playing different tennis in a new era.

This.

 

[Towny]

@Towny
Hating on Federer in this case. But not all Ultron fans are bad

Oh certainly, most Djokovic fans are very reasonable. It's the minority who aren't, bit a vocal minority at that. But that goes for Fed and Nadal fans too.

Nadal is of course more dominant at his pet Slam that the other two are at theirs, but I would say this stat does somewhat reflect that he played them much more at his pet Slam that they did at his, especially Djokovic. Nadal played the other two 13 times at RG compared to Federer playing them 8 times at his Slam and Djokovic playing them 6 times at his. The more matches you play at your best Slam, the more that usually plays into your favor.

I certainly agree the numbers are skewed. I'm largely playing devil's advocate to Lew here. But the fact that Nadal is 12-1 against Fedovic at RG is pretty insane. I don't think Djokovic has performed badly in this area, but Nadal has undoubtedly performed better.

 

[Lew II]

That's their problem. They always do this. They also make djoker look bad when they downgrade Fed, as they use that as the bar to show how great he is.

Please tell me how many of my threads put Djokovic below Nadal

You can search in my profile.

 

[RelentlessAttack]

This statistical stuff is mildly interesting but I’m tired of seeing the big 3 stat pad their careers. I watch sports to see superlative feats of human ability, not to see post-prime greats pad their career stats.

We had all the best matchups for entertainment between these players years ago - amongst others Federer/Nadal at Rome 06, W07, AO09, Djokovic/Nadal at Queens 08, Madrid 09, US11, AO12, RG13 Federer/Djokovic at FO11 and US11. There have been some outlier great matches like W18 between Nadal/Djokovic or AO17 for Federer/Nadal it’s just not the same as watching these guys at their peaks.

Peak vs peak vs peak I think there’s very little to give between these players and so the rest of the stuff is just boring. New blood please.

 

[KINGROGER]

This stat is already reflected in the slam totals. EG if Fed wins a Wimbledon final vs Djokovic, or AO 2009 he has more slams and less for the others. That’s when it comes into
play.

 

[RelentlessAttack]

This stat is already reflected in the slam totals. EG if Fed wins a Wimbledon final vs Djokovic, or AO 2009 he has more slams and less for the others. That’s when it comes into
play.

Prime/Peak Djokovic does seem to have the least close losses to his main rivals than the other two, but some of that is a function of timing - Nadal falling off a cliff physically in 2014 and Federer in 13, and Murray’s back surgery. Federer, Nadal, and Murray all beat him in slams between 2011-13, even though he was the clear #1 of this period, he really benefited from the peak contender void of mid 2014-16.