Federer vs Djokovic 2012 WB , and 2014-15 WB

[Raining hopes]

Please don't make this thread about which version was better , we have had 1000 threads about it. But I think it is unmistakably evident Federer's 2012 style and 2014-15 styles are way too different.

Was watching some highlights of 2012 encounter. The first and foremost thing is that Federer was trying to outdo Djokovic from back of the court.

And most importantly his FH could create silly angles to open up the court . It was really extremely potent.People say that the backhand with the older racquet was less stable but here even when Novak tried to go after it, Federer did well.

 

[robthai]

Federer is playing much differently against Djokovic here compared to their later Wimbledon encounters. Also his slice was more effective with the older racket.

 

[robthai]

I think Murray in the finals was a tougher opponent than Murray in his 2015 form.

 

[Raining hopes]

I think Murray in the finals was a tougher opponent than Murray in his 2015 form.

2012 WB F apart from the OG F might even be the best he had played on grass.

 

[Red Rick]

I think Murray in the finals was a tougher opponent than Murray in his 2015 form.

Really hot take there

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

I think Murray in the finals was a tougher opponent than Murray in his 2015 form.

But players get better as they age?

 

[Lew II]

OP said not to talk about who was better --> 10 minutes later TTW proceeds to talk about who had better opponents

LOL

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

A proper Fed and a small racquet headsize was the better love story.

 

[KINGROGER]

2012 Fed could actually hit powerful FHs with depth, angles, spin etc. 14/15 baseline game was poor compared to 2003-2012 version.

 

[KINGROGER]

It’s just not even close at all. 2012 version was twice the player from the back of the court. 14/15 Fed relied on his serve.

And that’s not even the best version... imagine how 03,04,06 version would do.

 

[mike danny]

That's why I always laugh when people say 2015 Fed was playing better than ever.

 

[ibbi]

Was watching some highlights of 2012 encounter. The first and foremost thing is that Federer was trying to outdo Djokovic from back of the court.

And he still could. I think that was most evident from their 2015 match where it was clear he no longer could/had the gameplan to try and avoid doing so.

I forget the exact pattern of it, but I recall before and after the rain break Federer's tactics being all over the place. He needed to attack, and yet he seemed scared to and hung back, and couldn't compete.

2014 I think was different. I think Novak really didn't play up to his best in either the semi final or final, but got through for similar reasons. He was just a class above his opponents over best of 5 and was relatively easily able to scrap it out.

Also, I do think the roof being closed in 2012 made a difference too.

 

[Julian Houston]

Bigger racquet slowed down his racquet head speed on his forehand, use to be lightning quick with many angles. It hurts Djokovic much more.

 

[ABCD]

That's why I always laugh when people say 2015 Fed was playing better than ever.

Gentle reminder:

“I think I’m a better player now than when I was at 24 because I’ve practised for another 10 years and I’ve got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don’t have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it’s ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I’ve had to adapt to a new generation of players again.” (August 2015)

 

[Lew II]

It’s just not even close at all. 2012 version was twice the player from the back of the court. 14/15 Fed relied on his serve.

And that’s not even the best version... imagine how 03,04,06 version would do.

@Raining hopes "Please don't make this thread about which version was better" --> proceeds to like this post

 

[Sport]

2012 Federer was faster than 2014/2015 Federer.

2014 Federer still looked in decent form (not so good as 2012 though), but to compare 2012 Federer with 2015 Federer is a crime. I have lost the count of how many unforced errors Federer made in 2015 WB. Federer's 2015 forehand was a disaster in the WB final.

 

[Lew II]

Federer's winning percentage against top10 not named Djokovic (since 2008):

2015 - 92.3
2017 - 87.5
2014 - 82.4
2010 - 70.6
2012 - 70
2009 - 65
2011 - 64.3
2018 - 50
2008 - 35.7
2013 - 33.3
2016 - 25

 

[Sport]

Federer's winning percentage against top10 not named Djokovic (since 2008):

2015 - 92.3
2017 - 87.5
2014 - 82.4
2010 - 70.6
2012 - 70
2009 - 65
2011 - 64.3
2018 - 50
2008 - 35.7
2013 - 33.3
2016 - 25

Why don't you include the stats of 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007?

 

[tennisaddict]

Federer with new racket after 2014 is a totally different player from before . It is not even a comparison .

Current Federer without the serve is clearly not a top 10 material

 

[Lew II]

Why don't you include the stats of 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007?

This thread is about 2012 and 2014-15.

2003-07 has no relevance.

 

[Sport]

This thread is about 2012 and 2014-15.

2003-07 has no relevance.

Then 2008 and 2009 have no relevance either.

 

[MeatTornado]

Gentle reminder:

“I think I’m a better player now than when I was at 24 because I’ve practised for another 10 years and I’ve got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don’t have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it’s ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I’ve had to adapt to a new generation of players again.” (August 2015)

So if he plays until he's 47, he'll be even better than he is today. I can't wait for him to peak, the anticipation is killing me!

 

[mike danny]

And he still could. I think that was most evident from their 2015 match where it was clear he no longer could/had the gameplan to try and avoid doing so.

I forget the exact pattern of it, but I recall before and after the rain break Federer's tactics being all over the place. He needed to attack, and yet he seemed scared to and hung back, and couldn't compete.

2014 I think was different. I think Novak really didn't play up to his best in either the semi final or final, but got through for similar reasons. He was just a class above his opponents over best of 5 and was relatively easily able to scrap it out.

Also, I do think the roof being closed in 2012 made a difference too.

Given how great Novak is indoors, that really doesn't matter.

 

[Sport]

Given how great Novak is indoors, that really doesn't matter.

Exactly, the roof argument is only valid for Nadal fans since Nadal has 0 ATP finals. Djokovic is a potential indoor co-GOAT or even indoor GOAT if he ends up with 6 or 7 ATP finals.

 

[lud]

Difference is Novak's level in 14/15 is 3x higher than 2012. Especially 2015, which was one of the greatest return performances by Djokovic ever.

 

[mike danny]

Difference is Novak's level in 14/15 is 3x higher than 2012. Especially 2015, which was one of the greatest return performances by Djokovic ever.

And Federer was also worse after 2012.

 

[lud]

And Federer was also worse after 2012.

Yes. I don't think he was that much worse. I just think he developed mental block vs Djokovic in big matches.
His performance vs Murray in WIM 15 or Raonic WIM 14 beats any 12 performance.
Same with UsO 15.

 

[Lew II]

Djokovic is a potential indoor co-GOAT or even indoor GOAT if he ends up with 6 or 7 ATP finals.

Who is the other co-GOAT?

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Yes. I don't think he was that much worse. I just think he developed mental block vs Djokovic in big matches.
His performance vs Murray in WIM 15 or Raonic WIM 14 beats any 12 performance.
Same with UsO 15.

But they didn't play any slam matches between WIM12 and 14 so how and why would he develop a mental block for WIM14?

 

[BrokenGears]

Lmao, people forgetting that Djokovic wasn’t playing well in that Wimbledon final compared to 15

Nice try.

 

[mike danny]

Yes. I don't think he was that much worse. I just think he developed mental block vs Djokovic in big matches.
His performance vs Murray in WIM 15 or Raonic WIM 14 beats any 12 performance.
Same with UsO 15.

He was worse enough to become an underdog against Djokovic at his best slam.

To me, the Djokovic-Murray double in 2012 was better than any 2014-2015 performances. Especially better than Raonic LOL.

 

[mike danny]

Lmao, people forgetting that Djokovic wasn’t playing well in that Wimbledon final compared to 15

Nice try.

Are you talking about 2012? Because Fed also got worse after that so it evens out.

 

[lud]

But they didn't play any slam matches between WIM12 and 14 so how and why would he develop a mental block for WIM14?

Djokovic beats him in last two finals played(WTF 12 and IW 14). IW 14 was very important. Djoko won 3rd set TB 7-3.
Maybe not mental block at WIM 14 yet, but Feds level dropped a lot comparated to SF vs Raonic. I'll say at WIM 14 final was fear and WIM and USO is clearly mental block. Ciny and Paris last year as well.

 

[KINGROGER]

Federer's winning percentage against top10 not named Djokovic (since 2008):

2015 - 92.3
2017 - 87.5
2014 - 82.4
2010 - 70.6
2012 - 70
2009 - 65
2011 - 64.3
2018 - 50
2008 - 35.7
2013 - 33.3
2016 - 25

Top 10 is way stronger in 2008-2013 than 2014-2016.

Also, I have to doubt the validity of your stats. Fed’s win % in 2017 was about 92%? And 2 of his losses were to very low ranked guys. So his top 10 % would be even higher.

 

[Im(moral) Winner]

Djokovic beats him in last two finals played(WTF 12 and IW 14). IW 14 was very important. Djoko won 3rd set TB 7-3.
Maybe not mental block at WIM 14 yet, but Feds level dropped a lot comparated to SF vs Raonic. I'll say at WIM 14 final was fear and WIM and USO is clearly mental block. Ciny and Paris last year as well.

He had beaten him in Dubai14 and MC14. Not sure if the top players get a mental block from a few master match losses.
In Cincy he almost lost two Stan in straights and had trouble against an injured Goffin before he retired.

 

[lud]

He had beaten him in Dubai14 and MC14. Not sure if the top players get a mental block from a few master match losses.
In Cincy he almost lost two Stan in straights and had trouble against an injured Goffin before he retired.

These matched were SF. Sure, Fed beat Djoko in finals of Dubai/Cincy but doesn't change a things. Fed STILL has mental block vs Djokovic.

 

[Lew II]

Top 10 is way stronger in 2008-2013 than 2014-2016.

ATP points:

2009 - 60,805
2010 - 56,690
2011 - 59,675
2012 - 62,535
2013 - 60,615

average: 60,064

2014 - 60,275
2015 - 64,535
2016 - 56,910

average: 60,573

 

[KINGROGER]

ATP points:

2009 - 60,805
2010 - 56,690
2011 - 59,675
2012 - 62,535
2013 - 60,615

average: 60,064

2014 - 60,275
2015 - 64,535
2016 - 56,910

average: 60,573

Mostly due to Djokovic being more dominant than any single player in 2008-2013, due to the weak field.

 

[tennis_pro]

Gentle reminder:

“I think I’m a better player now than when I was at 24 because I’ve practised for another 10 years and I’ve got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don’t have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it’s ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I’ve had to adapt to a new generation of players again.” (August 2015)

Wow, he said it so it must be true.

 

[Lew II]

Mostly due to Djokovic being more dominant than any single player in 2008-2013, due to the weak field.

Djokovic being better than in 2012 is exactly what I want to prove. Not a good argument to use.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

Bigger racquet slowed down his racquet head speed on his forehand, use to be lightning quick with many angles. It hurts Djokovic much more.

Did he have any other option though??
He had to change it.. I wish he would've changed way back in 2007 after YEC, so he could adapt to it while still keeping fearhand alive for years to come

Why don't you include the stats of 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007?

Because that simply doesn't fit his agenda of playing with maths and making fed/NAD look worse than djoker...

Believe me, this guy will prove that 2019 nadal is much better than 2009 nadal at AO..
And 2019 is peak roger

 

[KINGROGER]

Djokovic being better than in 2012 is exactly what I want to prove. Not a good argument to use.

He was a little better. Fed’s decline was more than Nole’s improvement.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

Djokovic being better than in 2012 is exactly what I want to prove. Not a good argument to use.

Being better and being more dominant are two different things with no correlation to each other...
A bamboo is the highest in a grass field, but not the highest in a rain forest

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

He a little better. Fed’s decline was more than Nole’s improvement.

Lew can't see this as he's a dhritirashtra with eyes...
Dhritirashtra had filial love towards duryodhan, and I don't know what kind of fanboyitic love does Lew possess for djok

 

[Sport]

Who is the other co-GOAT?

Federer or Sampras.

 

[Lew II]

Being better and being more dominant are two different things with no correlation to each other...
A bamboo is the highest in a grass field, but not the highest in a rain forest

I know, that's why I bring many stats to prove 2003-07 Fed was overrated. Can you do the same for 2014-16 Djokovic?

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

I know, that's why I bring many stats to prove 2003-07 Fed was overrated. Can you do the same for 2014-16 Djokovic?

You don't bring stats
You just play with maths and prove wrong things true...
Again refer to what I said...
2004-06 fed was the redwood tree in rainforest, and djoker 2014-16 was bamboo in grass field, with small fruit trees being old fed, mury and stan(2014-15 fed is overrated as hell)

 

[Lew II]

You don't bring stats
You just play with maths and prove wrong things true...
Again refer to what I said...
2004-06 fed was the redwood tree in rainforest, and djoker 2014-16 was bamboo in grass field, with small fruit trees being old fed, mury and stan(2014-15 fed is overrated as hell)

At least I know how to ''play with maths''.

You just can't write anything more than ''player X is better because I said so''.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

At least I know how to ''play with maths''.

At least you accepted that you play with maths, which automatically says that you work to prove wrong things true....

@KINGROGER @True Fanerer @Sport this guy is exposed lol xD...

And anyways, roflmao at me not being able to play with maths, man I'm a businessman and numbers are there with me during my whole work time....
But I don't possess mental attitude of playing with Numbers to do bad stuff...
Unlike you.
Sorry to tell you that mate

 

[KINGROGER]

I know, that's why I bring many stats to prove 2003-07 Fed was overrated. Can you do the same for 2014-16 Djokovic?

14-16 Djokovic 6 slams
04-06 Federer 8 slams