AiRFederer
Hall of Fame
Only thing I know is that no one other than Fed is in the line of 2. 
GOAT Race at age 32
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MugOpponent
Hall of Fame
That's entirely subjective and more power to you but don't be mad when others think Rafa is GOAT because they prefer how he played the game.
MugOpponent
Hall of Fame
duaneeo
Legend
If we compare 32-year-old Nadal, 32-year-old Federer, and will-be-32-in-2019 Djokovic in the major (and more specific) metrics of the game:
Australian Open: Djokovic 6, Federer 4, Nadal 1. Federer and Djokovic are closer.
Roland Garros: Nadal 11, Federer 1, Djokovic 1. Federer and Djokovic are closer.
Wimbledon: Federer 7, Djokovic 3, Nadal 2. Nadal and Djokovic are closer.
US Open: Federer 5, Nadal 3, Djokovic 2. Nadal and Djokovic are closer.
Weeks at #1: Federer 303, Djokovic 223, Nadal 178. Nadal and Djokovic are closer.
Year End #1: Federer 5, Djokovic 4, Nadal 4. Nadal and Djokovic are closer.
Only Cincinnati and Madrid indoors/Shanghai have ever really been that favourable for Federer. 0 grass masters. HC in general are more neutral.
Grunting, moonballing, butt picking, time wasting? Fair enough.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
LOL what would you know about me? You're a noob on here.
Fed fans are just like their idol - sooks.
MugOpponent
Hall of Fame
By the same token one could say the Madrid clay event isn't really that favorable for Nadal either thus there are two very favorable events for both in the whole Masters series.
Nah, tenacity, getting the most out one's ability, insane defense, ridiculous passing shots.
Only the FedKult on here cares about what you mention. God knows they're an irritable and miserable bunch in general.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Then you can't label him the GOAT, only the GYES - Greatest You've Ever Seen.
wangs78
Legend
Unless the Slam count difference is greater than 4-5 when both are retired, there is never going to be consensus on who is greater between the two. 20 vs 17 or 20 v 18? or if Rafa takes the lead at 21 v 20 or 22 v 20? Honestly it's not a big difference to win 2 extra Slams over a 20 year career. I am afraid this is a debate that we're going to be having even 50 years from now unless a young player comes out and breaks the record.
Those passing shots are so frustrating as a Federer fan, and I imagine Djokovic too.
It’s still clay and a lot of HCs have been slowed down which works against Fed.
MugOpponent
Hall of Fame
It seems Federer will only have had that backhand in 2017 because it's certainly not the same now.
Put 2008 peak physical Nadal with Nadal's 2017 service game. Federer who?
What's your point? During their primes Nadal won when it counted and that's not changing no matter how much Fedarlings can wish and dream things were different.
Is this to do with H2H only?
MugOpponent
Hall of Fame
Clearly his post was referencing it.
zverev2018
Semi-Pro
Wow this whole Federer vs Nadal and GOAT debate is too intense and out of control. In 10 years Zverev will be part of the debate but I have to admit I’m not very excited to see him being torn down like that.
Benben245
Banned
Respectfully, you restated my point critically and then used the same logic and applied it to nadal. Your argument is porous; take my hypothetical for what it its. Federer's age and footwork are not what the once were. Can you imagine an aggressive Federer with an over the top backhand in 2009 at Australia; that match would have been over in 4 sets.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
In your dreams pal. It only went 5 sets because Verdasco took some legs out of Nadal in the semis.
Benben245
Banned
Fallacious, Nadal was pummeling Federer's backhand all match.
MugOpponent
Hall of Fame
My argument is no different than yours.
One would think federer fans would be satisfied since they are so assured. Once again why is it so difficult to accept things as they are? Fed lost 2008 W,2009 AO, all of those French opens. Nadal won. It's not changing.
I could just as easily say if 2007 Nadal had 2017 Nadals serve that he wins 2007 Wimbledon in four sets. Can you imagine peak physical Nadal with a more formidable service game?
Benben245
Banned
Yes, that is exactly what I said; your argument is no different than my own. What are we doing on this forum if not to postulate, critique, and analyze for the love of the game. What is the name of this thread?
MugOpponent
Hall of Fame
I think most hypothetical tend to get very tedious. And yeah sure some Nadal fans do this as well however after spending some time on here it would be easy to believe the only reason Federer ever lost a match was due to some unfortunate mitigating circumstance.
I think people tend to be very unobjective when their own player or teams are factored in. Everyone likes to dwell on what they don't have or didn't get.
For example as a Nadal fan, it was really unlucky that Federer choked the 2011 US Open semi and wound up facing Djokovic . Based on the track record up to that point, Nadal would probably win a hypothetical final against Roger.
Whether the hidden luck in sports took one away there we will never know.
It's just as possible that same luck benefited Nadal at the 2011 French open when Federer upset Novak in the semis.
So yeah you can be free to think what if Roger had his peak 2017 backhand during x? Maybe it would change the result maybe not. It's just a very one dimensional way to view sports without recognizing the other guy can also play what if.
Benben245
Banned
Had Federer been able to maintain his 2017 backhand for a couple more years the application retroactively would be more legitimate. Nadal's serve has really never been an issue for Roger and certainly not a deciding factor from 2008 onwards in their matchups.
Raining hopes
Hall of Fame
The premise of the thread is wrong because FRAUD was a late bloomer:
And yes measuring it from their first slam wins is wrong too,Ralpha still didn't have hc play.
The best is to do it from the year they first won two slams in a season.
2008 till 2018(ten years)
2004 till 2014WB(ten years)
Fraud has
3+2+3+3+1+2+1+0+1 +0+0=16 slams
Rafa has
2+1+3+1+1+2+1+0+0+2+1= 14 slams
Fred has
More weeks at no.1,more multi slam season ,more 3 slam season,more WTF.CGS
Rafa has olympic gold,less years without a slam,CGS e.t.c
Fred is ahead in slams by 2 but you must see that we aren't counting 2017-2018 for him suppose while we are counting Nadal 's best years, we replace 2014 with 2017 and the gap increases(which will only be fair considering we have counted Rafa's late career resurgence against a weak field but FRAUD's career resurgence against Peaking Djokovic in 2011 and in case of 2012 peaking big 4.)
And yes measuring it from their first slam wins is wrong too,Ralpha still didn't have hc play.
The best is to do it from the year they first won two slams in a season.
2008 till 2018(ten years)
2004 till 2014WB(ten years)
Fraud has
3+2+3+3+1+2+1+0+1 +0+0=16 slams
Rafa has
2+1+3+1+1+2+1+0+0+2+1= 14 slams
Fred has
More weeks at no.1,more multi slam season ,more 3 slam season,more WTF.CGS
Rafa has olympic gold,less years without a slam,CGS e.t.c
Fred is ahead in slams by 2 but you must see that we aren't counting 2017-2018 for him suppose while we are counting Nadal 's best years, we replace 2014 with 2017 and the gap increases(which will only be fair considering we have counted Rafa's late career resurgence against a weak field but FRAUD's career resurgence against Peaking Djokovic in 2011 and in case of 2012 peaking big 4.)
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Yeah and he was moving WAY better in that 2009 final despite the Verdasco semi than he did in 2017. Imagine if he had ****ty Roddick in the semi's instead, he'd have beat Fed in 4 sets.
Benben245
Banned
Ok 2008-2015 Federer takes a bunch of his matchups against Nadal and Djokovic with his 2017 backhand at his side. Kneel before your god plebiscite
ADuck
Legend
It's not right or wrong, it's just the facts. Credit to Rafa for being an early bloomer then.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
LOL his 2017 bh would get handled by Rafa from 08-13. Novak from 11-half way of 16 would still handle him. It only worked because Rafa's movement has declined big time.
hoodjem
G.O.A.T.
Not yet.No.
He is just not that good.
Ferd is just coming into his peak, at age 36.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Not yet.
Ferd is just coming into his peak, at age 36.
I was literally quoting you from a few years back.
Your post at the time included Rosewall's name.
hoodjem
G.O.A.T.
I thought it sounded familiar. Probably some silliness about Rosewall’s longevity, which Fed is closing in on.I was literally quoting you from a few years back.
Your post at the time included Rosewall's name.
Where was it?
Tennis_Hands
Banned
hoodjem
G.O.A.T.
Thanks.I will have to look it up, but I found it ..... interesting at the time.
“Ah, but I was so much older then;
I'm younger than that now.”
Benben245
Banned
That's very possible. That in and of itself is a good thread
Zhilady
Professional
Okay, he won’t answer you.
D
Deleted member 743561
Guest
OP, are you tallying retirements? If not, just chuck 'em into the L column.
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