mental midget
Hall of Fame
many pros have distinguished themselves at an early age age (chang, becker, wilander, etc.)
who among them achieved the most during their teen years?
who among them achieved the most during their teen years?
greatest teenage player?
- Thread starter mental midget
- Start date
Jackie T. Stephens
Professional
I would say Borg and Andre Agassi.
GameSampras
Banned
Becker for me.
Jackie T. Stephens
Professional
mental midget
Hall of Fame
it's amazing, when you think of the focus, determination, and self-belief, let alone physical talent, needed to succeed as a pro, that these players were not only competing, but succeeding at the highest levels.
weird kids.
kidding. kind of.
weird kids.
kidding. kind of.
Jackie T. Stephens
Professional
Your just copying what the other guy said...
mental midget
Hall of Fame
i was thinking along the lines of professional rather than amateur accomplishments. no doubt parker and davis were hugely successful, though.
LOL, what a load of garbage. In this conversation neither of them rates a mention. All they did was achieve in the United States junior scene and, in case you haven't noticed, tennis is played in a lot of other countries apart from America.
At the age of 18, Ken Rosewall won the Australian Open and the French Open. He was runner-up at Wimbledon when he was 19. He got to the quarter-finals of the US Open when he was 17 and won the Wimbledon doubles title at age 19 (with Lew Hoad who was also 19).
Bjorn Borg won the French Open when he was either 17 or just turned 18 (birthday in June, not sure what date of French was that year). He won it again the next year. At the age of 19 he took Sweden to their first Davis Cup win. Borg also played Davis Cup at age 15.
Mats Wilander won the French Open when he was 17 and was runner-up at age 18. He won the Australian Open when he was 19.
Michael Chang has been mentioned, as has Nadal and Becker.
Now those are achievements!
That said, if you were including the women I'd say you can't go past Maureen Connolly. Her record as a teenager surpasses everyone else, male or female. Won the Grand Slam (the real Grand Slam) in her 19th year, won the US Open at age 16 (also at age 17 and 18 ), won Wimbledon at 17 (also at age 18 and 19). Another French title at age 19 and also won the French Mixed that year with another 19 year old, Lew Hoad.
No doubt in my mind, Connolly is the greatest teenage player the game has ever seen.
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
Like clockwork, you're spot on AndrewD....
I was going to mention Connoly but didn't want to suffer the slings and arrows of mentioning a woman...
Rosewall's accomplishments are many and long lived. The guy was winning ATP tournaments against players half his age.... Rosewall's last year on the tour was 1980, he was 46. In 1978 at the age of 44, he played close to a full schedule. His best results was a close loss to Vitas Gerulaitis who was 20 years his junior. They went to a tiebreak in the first set and one service break decided the second. In 1977 at the age of 43, he made it to the finals of 3 tournaments winning two and losing one to Jimmy Connors. The two victories included wins over Tom Gorman and Harold Solomon who was 18 years his junior. In that tournament, on clay, he defeated in order Wojtek Fibak, Ilie Nastase, Eddie Dibbs, and Harold Solomon. Not too bad for a guy who was 43.
Rosewall's first tournament victory came in 1951 and his last in 1973 spanning 22 years. Amazing.
swedechris
Banned
edberg.. grand slammer
navratilovafan
Banned
I agree with AndrewD here. If you include both genders Connolly hands down. Her dominance even far eclipsed Seles's teenage dominance since she was dominating even on grass as opposed to getting her butt whooped on grass, and she certainly wasnt going 3 sets on the brink of defeat to win half of her slams as teenage Seles had to.
Great Post! There's only one name in it which reads as "one of these things is not like the others" and that is Chang. As good as he was I don't think his credentials or side bars related to his RG win and clay court career qualify him to be mentioned in the same breath as the others on your list. Maybe the next breath but not the first. Again, great post.
5
How about Steffi Graf as a teenager
Singles
French Open 2 wins, runner-up 1
Wimbledon 1 wins runner-up 1
Aussie Open 2 wins
US Open 1 win runner-up 1
Doubles
Wimbledon 1 win
French Open 3 runner-ups
Gold medal at he Olympics
3 years as No.1 as a teenager.
All four grand slams in one year (2 of these as a teenager)
Singles
French Open 2 wins, runner-up 1
Wimbledon 1 wins runner-up 1
Aussie Open 2 wins
US Open 1 win runner-up 1
Doubles
Wimbledon 1 win
French Open 3 runner-ups
Gold medal at he Olympics
3 years as No.1 as a teenager.
All four grand slams in one year (2 of these as a teenager)
P
PERL
Guest
If I had to choose one, Boris Becker is the teenage sensation in my mind. He won Wimbledon overpowering adult players.
mental midget
Hall of Fame
wasn't aware of rosewall's early successes, great stuff.
Rabbit,
Amazingly, Rosewall's last victory in a singles event was actually in 1977 at the Hong Kong Open. Not a stellar draw but he still won 5 matches and beat Tom Gorman in the final. Even more amazing was that three weeks prior he'd been runner-up to Jimmy Connors at the Sydney Indoor. Lost in straight sets, 5-7, 4-6, 2-6, but that isn't a bad effort for a bloke who was 43 at the time (and giving away 18 years to the 25 y/o world #1). Just as impressive is that he beat Tim Wilkison, Hank Pfister and Vitas Gerulaitis on his way to the final. Can you believe he was still playing the Australian circuit in 1980, at 46 years of age? Beat a few handy (not great but useful) players in Wilkison, Walts, John Fitzgerald and Kim Warwick. In doubles he and Mal Anderson lost to Vitas and Bill Scanlon in the 77 Queensland Open. The Aussies had a combined age of 85 at the time LOL.
GameSampras
Banned
How about Pete at 19 at the US OPEN 90. Look at the draw he had and the big names in that slam.. Unreal Pete got through that
far from the greatest teenager but a good choice for greatest junior,
a big difference between winning junior grandslams to winning the real majors like becker,wilander,rosewall etc.
yep but doesnt make him a candidate for greatest ever.
realistically i think your looking at becker,wilander and rosewall.
for the ladies i'm thinking steffi,connolly and maybe hingis and seles.
Although Chang does not have the legendary status as the others mentioned, I am surprised that no one else is supporting him.
I was told by someone who played in the junior circuits during Chang's time that he would beat guys two or three years older than he was. And to back that up, at the age of 12 he won the USTA Junior Hard Court Singles, the Fiesta Bowl 16s at 13, the USTA Boys 18s Hardcourts and the Boys 18s Nationals when he was 15, and he also became the youngest player to win a main draw match at the US Open. He also became the youngest player to reach the semi-final stage of a top-level professional tournament. And at 16, he won his first top-level singles title. Then at 17, he became the youngest male player to win a Grand Slam tournament, the French Open. Following that win, Chang was the youngest player to be ranked in the world's top-five on the men's singles rankings.
With his success in the juniors, I wonder why it didn't continue into his adulthood. I guess everyone caught up to him.
Just to add, I am not a huge Michael Chang fan (the above information was googled), but give the guy the credit he deserves. The thread is about the greatest teenage player not the greatest all time player, meaning success before 19. And if you consider what Chang has done from even the age of 12 to 19, that's a pretty impressive resume.
Just my 2 cents.
Last edited:
Techniques
Rookie
Hewitt? When he was 16 he won his first ATP title in Adelaide, his home town, beating world number 1 at that time - Jason Stoltenburg (sp?).
hoodjem
G.O.A.T.
I agree that Rosewall's longevity puts him in a special class. His accomplishments as a teenager are worthy of note. But I believe that Muscles wins hands-down as the greatest player OAT in his 40's.
Kenny should be on anyone's top-ten GOAT list, and pretty high too.
(As for GTOAT, I would say Borg or Becker.)
mental midget
Hall of Fame
does nadal hold the record for most titles as a teenager? i would think this stat would place him near the top. was he 18 or 19 when he started winning rg?
Rabbit
G.O.A.T.
In the immortal words of Maxwell Smart, "Sorry about that, chief!" I missed the year. You are exactly right.
Rosewall's accomplishments make him not only the greatest (male) teenage player of all time, but the greatest senior citizen of all time as well! Truly amazing stuff that he could hold up.
I read an article once in which the writer said Borg, who was #1 in the world at the time, wouldn't have a long career. His reasoning was that Borg required perfect timing with the extreme angles he used to hit the ball, i.e. extreme topspin. He likened him to Connors who, the writer opined, would have a long career because Connors' timing didn't have to be as perfect as Borg's. His reasoning at the time (late 70s) was Rosewall and his long career. The writer compared Rosewall's game to Connors'.
CyBorg
Legend
Becker - two Wimbledons by the age of 20.
Borg - two Frenches; a Davis Cup; a Dallas WCT title
It's close. Becker's wins were definitely "more huge", in terms of scale, although Borg's Davis Cup triumph may have been comparable in this respect. Let's not forget how big the tournament was and his role in it.
Borg - two Frenches; a Davis Cup; a Dallas WCT title
It's close. Becker's wins were definitely "more huge", in terms of scale, although Borg's Davis Cup triumph may have been comparable in this respect. Let's not forget how big the tournament was and his role in it.
I rate them in a different way. As achievements, I rate Becker's wins as the best. Simple reason being that Wimbledon is, was and always has been the greatest tournament in the world. That said, I rate Borg and Rosewall's achievements as being greater - FOR A TEENAGER. The reason being that both were playing at a time when the equipment was genuinely prohibitive for younger, less physically developed players. Even genuinely great and physically powerful players like Hoad, Gonzalez, Sedgman, Budge, Trabert and Kramer had to wait until their early 20's (mid for Kramer, due to the war), when they were physically mature, to start winning. Borg and Rosewall turned that upside-down. When Becker came onto the scene the equipment had torn down the divide which had existed between the physically mature and immature player. Becker was a great physical specimen but no more than those guys I mentioned.
I do believe that in an obvious world, Becker might rate at #1 but, in a more reasoned world, Borg and Rosewall would precede him.
I hear you. But a took the tone of the thread to be teenagers performing on the big stage. Those that made an enormous impact in the pros as teens.
Juniors? Edberg, Gunthardt, Billy Martin (whose junior records, I think, are still out of reach).
You'll note that IMO Sampras doesn't merit mention in that first group either and, as I said, I would bring up Chang in my "second breath". In my mind that's still elite, just not as elite.
5
Last edited:
B
Barricade V
Guest
me........
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
i guess this is a joke, right ?... who the hell are these guys ?!
(and what are gold balls ?)
the scott davis name sounds vaguely familiar to me...
the al parker name did too but thinking twice, in fact it made me think about ray parker jr.
i guess becker and borg would be the most obvious choices... with wilander not so far, and -as some ppl already wrote it- a special mention to the junior grand slam of edberg.
and as we are talking about achievements between 13 and 19, what about krickstein, chang and hewitt ?... the only players to have won an ATP tournament at 16 !
I don't know about that:
BEFORE these guys turned 20:
Nadal:
16 titles
6 MS events, 1 Final, 2 SF and 1 QF
2 Majors (counting 2006 as he turned 20 during the event)
0 late round appearances in other Majors
0 TMC appearances
Becker:
12 titles
4 MS titles, 1 Final, 2 SF, 1QF
2 Major titles
QF or better at all 4 Majors (including SF and QF at RG, SF at the US Open and a QF at the AO)
2 TMC Runner-ups
Wilander:
13 titles
3 MS titles, 1 Final, 1 SF
2 Major titles at RG and AO*
QF or better at 3 Majors (including another Final and SF at RG and a QF at the USO).
1 TMC SF
If you were of the mind to discount his AO win, while it was only 6 rounds he beat, an aging Tanner, then Kriek, John McEnroe and Lendl on grass, the same year Lendl would reach his first SF of 7 at Wimbledon.
While they have different numbers in different places they're pretty comparable in total. Personally, I would rank these three, Becker, Nadal then Wilander. But I think their performances AS TEENS, all merit being mentioned on the same line as Borg.
5
halalula1234
Professional
Without a doubt its DEFINITELY MONICA SELES.
Shes has like 8 Grand Slam titles before the age of 20. In fact she was only 18 or 19 when she was stabbed. Shes is definitely the most talented teenager.
Shes has like 8 Grand Slam titles before the age of 20. In fact she was only 18 or 19 when she was stabbed. Shes is definitely the most talented teenager.
380pistol
Banned
Damn!!!!!!!! Nicely done. The only problem is I would have liked to seen Borg's #'s cuz he would have been my pick and I would like to see where his #'s stack up alongside those.
And problem #2... where the hell are the women??? Coming later.... I hope. Off the top of my head I would have said Graf. Seles and Hingis come to mind as well. Connolly from the pre open era would be someone I'd have to seriousy consider also.
Borg:
16 titles
2 Major titles RG
MS titles, none, hard to find equitable comparisons but won:
Rome (the Italian Open) which at this time was at least on par with RG, Barcelona and Boston (twice), in '75 all well attended, 6 round, best of 5 (in the final or from the SF on), affairs. So I would give Borg
4 MS-"type" titles (conservatively)
He also finalled at Philadelphia WCT
Final and SF of Stockholm tuff 64 spot draw
Final Monte Carlo
SF Palm Springs WCT
SF Madrid tuff 64 draw
SF Barcelona tuff 64 draw
QF or better at three majors, including, SF US Open, QF Wimbledon + another QF at RG
SF the WCT Challenge Cup with a very stout draw
Qualified for two Masters reaching one Final
Qualified for three WCT Championships in Dallas winning one and r/up in the other two.
I know I've missed some comparable events but its difficult to provide a synopsis of the pro tennis landscape having changed so significantly since that time. This is as apples to apples as I can make it at this time.
5
16 titles
2 Major titles RG
MS titles, none, hard to find equitable comparisons but won:
Rome (the Italian Open) which at this time was at least on par with RG, Barcelona and Boston (twice), in '75 all well attended, 6 round, best of 5 (in the final or from the SF on), affairs. So I would give Borg
4 MS-"type" titles (conservatively)
He also finalled at Philadelphia WCT
Final and SF of Stockholm tuff 64 spot draw
Final Monte Carlo
SF Palm Springs WCT
SF Madrid tuff 64 draw
SF Barcelona tuff 64 draw
QF or better at three majors, including, SF US Open, QF Wimbledon + another QF at RG
SF the WCT Challenge Cup with a very stout draw
Qualified for two Masters reaching one Final
Qualified for three WCT Championships in Dallas winning one and r/up in the other two.
I know I've missed some comparable events but its difficult to provide a synopsis of the pro tennis landscape having changed so significantly since that time. This is as apples to apples as I can make it at this time.
5
I would disagree most vehemently about that. While I think you can include Becker in any conversation, I don't think Nadal's or Wilander's accomplishments as a teen should ever be placed on the same line as those of Borg and Rosewall (his accomplishments easily outshine those of Wilander and Nadal). At the end of his teens, Nadal had won two French Opens (if you give him the one he won after he'd turned 20) and Wilander had won one French and one Aus Open. Same age Becker had two Wimbledons, Rosewall had an Australian, a French, a Davis Cup title (I would argue that was on a par with the majors in those days), a Wimbledon runner-up plus 1 French, Wimbledon and Australian doubles title. Wi and Wilander had one Aus Open plus one French Open.
Elevating Nadal and Wilander just doesn't make sense, if you're looking for objectivity.
1. Borg
2. Rosewall
2. Becker
4. Daylight
5.Wilander/Nadal
