Have I got this correct about the starting clamp?

[LHM]

Please bear with me as I am new to stringing. I am pretty much self taught 1 week in now and all going well.

One issue I have been running into is my starting knots when I start the crosses. I do not want to use a bulky knot. I have been doing the double half hitch knot to start on the crosses and this has been slipping through the grommet hole. My question is, if I use a starting clamp on my crosses will a double half hitch knot be ok to tie off as a finishing knot rather than a start knot without it slipping through the grommet hole?

 

[4-string]

Yes, not a knot I use myself, but a DHH works as a tie off knot.

 

[Karma Tennis]

I always use a Starting Clamp to start the crosses. After I've strung several crosses, I go back to the 1st cross and use either a Parnell Knot or a Wilson Pro Knot to tie off.

 

[GlennK]

Yes, you can use the DHH if you use the starting clamp. However, you should learn the Parnell or Wilson Pro knots. Personally, the Parnell knot is now second nature to me.

 

[jga111]

As Karma Tennis has mentioned, learn the Parnell knot. This is my standard knot. In cases when I'm struggling for space, I then use the Wilson Pro Knot. Both work well and you will be flying in no time

 

[Irvin]

Please bear with me as I am new to stringing. I am pretty much self taught 1 week in now and all going well.

One issue I have been running into is my starting knots when I start the crosses. I do not want to use a bulky knot. I have been doing the double half hitch knot to start on the crosses and this has been slipping through the grommet hole. My question is, if I use a starting clamp on my crosses will a double half hitch knot be ok to tie off as a finishing knot rather than a start knot without it slipping through the grommet hole?

Definetly not, the base of a double half hitch knot is a half hitch which is the smallest knot you can tie. That's why it is so easy for that knot to be pulled into the grommet hole when used as a starting knot. On the other hand if you use the starting clamp to start the crosses then tie your DHH there will be less tendancy for your knot to be pulled into the grommet but with such a small base IMO YOURE STILL GOING TO HAVE ISSUES WITH IT.

 

[ten11]

I use parnell knot for all finishing knots and bulky starting knot for first cross. I do not use starting clamp unless I have to (babolat pure storm tour).
One thing I want to point out here is that both knots has the end point to the frame after cutting. It will be harder to scratch fingers or clothes. I also push the string end towards the frame after I cut it use the other end of the cutter to make sure it really sits close to the frame.
I also believe standard procedure is a good way to produce consistent job. I do not like variance in my stringing.

Credit to Yulitle:
parnell knot:

bulky starting knot:

 

[lidoazndiabloboi]

I use parnell knot for all finishing knots and bulky starting knot for first cross. I do not use starting clamp unless I have to (babolat pure storm tour).
One thing I want to point out here is that both knots has the end point to the frame after cutting. It will be harder to scratch fingers or clothes. I also push the string end towards the frame after I cut it use the other end of the cutter to make sure it really sits close to the frame.
I also believe standard procedure is a good way to produce consistent job. I do not like variance in my stringing.

what's the reason for not using the starting clamp on all occasions?

 

[Rabbit]

I can't think of a reason to not use starting clamps on two-piece string jobs.

 

[MathieuR]

I can't think of a reason to not use starting clamps on two-piece string jobs.

- you need ~25cm more length
- you pull the first cross twice (only "bad" when using a LO, but WTF in the right state of mind uses a LO )

 

[ten11]

I can't think of a reason to not use starting clamps on two-piece string jobs.

How about I only have one starting clamp string on neos 1000 and always tight the finishing knot with starting clamp? This is exactly the reason and get to the habit of using starting knot. Rabbit, you had neos 1000 before, I think you can image the issue here. I cannot tie the knot after few crosses first of all, I have to finish the whole thing and come back to tie off. Since I only got one starting clamp, I cannot tie the knot with it.
Now I have more than two starting clamps but old habit is hard to change.

 

[MAX PLY]

^^^You could always use your other glide bar/clamp after several crosses to tie a finishing knot at the top which would free up your starting clamp for the last of the crosses. But since you have 2 starting clamps, this is not a problem anyway.

 

[MathieuR]

I cannot tie the knot after few crosses first of all, I have to finish the whole thing and come back to tie off.

Why is that? I do have an old Stringway, also a glidebar-system. But I would not have a problem stringing eg the first 5 crosses, and then tie-off the first cross...
Edit: I'm a moron; I now see the problem. Well, with my Stringway I could use a second glidebar for the crosses; different construction.

 

[Rabbit]

- you need ~25cm more length
- you pull the first cross twice (only "bad" when using a LO, but WTF in the right state of mind uses a LO )

Your first situation has never occurred in my experience, measure twice, cut once.

Your second situation is fairly contrived. I don't think pulling the top cross is in any way detrimental to the string bed.

How about I only have one starting clamp string on neos 1000 and always tight the finishing knot with starting clamp? This is exactly the reason and get to the habit of using starting knot. Rabbit, you had neos 1000 before, I think you can image the issue here. I cannot tie the knot after few crosses first of all, I have to finish the whole thing and come back to tie off. Since I only got one starting clamp, I cannot tie the knot with it.
Now I have more than two starting clamps but old habit is hard to change.

Sorry, I owned a Neos 1000 for 15 or so years and I don't see the problem. I always used a starting clamp at the top cross, strung the crosses, tied off at the bottom went back up, pulled tension, removed the starting clamp, clamped and tied off the top.

 

[MathieuR]

Your second situation is fairly contrived. I don't think pulling the top cross is in any way detrimental to the string bed.

Agree. In general a LO would give a more predictable result if every string would be tensioned twice. (I know a LO gives fine results, it's just different from cp)

 

[Irvin]

If you only have one starting clamp that is not a problem. Start your crosses with a starting clamp and once you get down to the center of the frame use your second glide bar and clamp to free up the starting clamp.

If you're concerned about pulling the top cross twice start by tensioning the second cross. When you come back to get the starting clamp tension the top cross for the first time.

The 25 cm (10") is the string required to tension the top string to get the starting clamp off. With a starting knot you can get by with an inch of extra string and have zero drawback on the top cross.

 

[Karma Tennis]

I can't think of a reason to not use starting clamps on two-piece string jobs.

Well, if one doesn't have a starting clamp that is probably a good enough reason

But then, if one doesn't have a starting clamp, one should probably acquire one a.s.a.p.

 

[eelhc]

Your second situation is fairly contrived. I don't think pulling the top cross is in any way detrimental to the string bed.

Sorry, I owned a Neos 1000 for 15 or so years and I don't see the problem. I always used a starting clamp at the top cross, strung the crosses, tied off at the bottom went back up, pulled tension, removed the starting clamp, clamped and tied off the top.

Let it go... he has his mind made up. He won't be happy until everyone in the world uses a Stringway. Logic/reasoning/science or just plain personal preference be damned...

 

[Rabbit]

Let it go... he has his mind made up. He won't be happy until everyone in the world uses a Stringway. Logic/reasoning/science or just plain personal preference be damned...

Consider it gone!

thanks

 

[Chotobaka]

I give him points for tenacity, though. There is not a thread or subject where he is unable to slip in at least one Stringway reference.

 

[Irvin]

I give him points for tenacity, though. There is not a thread or subject where he is unable to slip in at least one Stringway reference.

That's not true, here's one:

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/inde...-for-sale-or-trade-posts-in-this-forum.98530/

 

[MathieuR]

Let it go... he has his mind made up. He won't be happy until everyone in the world uses a Stringway. Logic/reasoning/science or just plain personal preference be damned...

Dear boys and girls, you all seem to be a bit oversensitive.
Funny though that this discussion is "vivid", and a more relevant discussion in the "yonex-loop"-thread sinks in oblivion

 

[Rabbit]

Dear boys and girls, you all seem to be a bit oversensitive.
Funny though that this discussion is "vivid", and a more relevant discussion in the "yonex-loop"-thread sinks in oblivion

Ask yourself this, is it that everyone else is oversensitive or are you just a bit bombastic in your constant proclamations with regard to the Stringway machine and denigration of lockouts?

 

[MathieuR]

are you just a bit bombastic in your constant proclamations with regard to the Stringway machine and denigration of lockouts?

Re-read what I posted in this thread. SWpromotion: no. LO-bashing: "a tat" (but I clearly state you can get good results on a LO. I'm just not a fan of the tensioning-mechanisme)

 

[Wes]

I give him points for tenacity, though. There is not a thread or subject where he is unable to slip in at least one Stringway reference.

So true.
It's like it should be a drinking game, right?
Every time he brings it up (again!) you have to take a shot.

So, whose drunk?

 

[MAX PLY]

^^^it would be a great drinking game but after a normal rant of posts, I could no longer participate in the thread! I would be locked out due to the constant pull of alcohol (and with due respect to our Stringway fan, not even a constant munching of bitterballen could keep me sober).

 

[MathieuR]

bitterballen

I can't deny I have a hobby-horse (3 actually: Stringway/Lock-Out/prestretching).
Didn't know our Dutch "bitterballen" were known outside the Netherlands.

 

[MathieuR]

How about I only have one starting clamp string on neos 1000 and always tight the finishing knot with starting clamp?

1: finish the crosses as usual, pull tension on last cross, clamp (but do not tie-off yet, as you are missing the starting-clamp
2: pull tension on the first cross; now you have your starting-clamp
3: tie-off last cross
4: clamp first cross and tie-off

 

[MathieuR]

double post deleted

 

[Rabbit]

what are you talking about? you don't need a starting clamp at the bottom! what does a starting clamp have to do with #1?

 

[MathieuR]

what are you talking about?

ten11 indicated he needs/uses a starting-clamp to tie the knot (I do it also)

 

[MathieuR]

double posting deleted

 

[Rabbit]

I see, the old "I can't tie a knot without a starting clamp syndrome", ehh?

 

[Rabbit]

I see, the old "I can't tie/cinch up a knot without a starting clamp syndrome" ehh?

 

[MathieuR]

Yeah, I plead guilty; especially for the "cinching-up" part, especially with a thin poly.

 

[MAX PLY]

Apparently, many soft hands on these boards.

 

[Karma Tennis]

Apparently, many soft hands on these boards.

Actually, it is usually much easier to tie knots - esp. thin Poly - with soft supple hands. Dry, chaffed hands or hands with cracked skin are the last thing one needs, especially when that thin Poly digs in ! ... OUCH !!!

Always use hand moisturiser both before and after stringing to ensure a completely Professional job that leaves you and your hands ready to go for the next one.

 

[kkm]

It's not true that you have to tension the top cross twice if you use a starting clamp to start the crosses. When you go to tie off the top cross, instead of pulling the top cross with just the starting clamp in place and then using the machine clamp to clamp the top cross after pulling the starting clamp off, you can start by clamping the top cross with the machine clamp, then pull tension on the top cross to get the starting clamp off, and tie off. Make sense?

 

[Irvin]

It's not true that you have to tension the top cross twice if you use a starting clamp to start the crosses. When you go to tie off the top cross, instead of pulling the top cross with just the starting clamp in place and then using the machine clamp to clamp the top cross after pulling the starting clamp off, you can start by clamping the top cross with the machine clamp, then pull tension on the top cross to get the starting clamp off, and tie off. Make sense?

Makes sense in what you're explaining but IMO it's a bad practice. First thing I don't like is you have to clamp the top cross outside the frame with a starting clamp, then inside the frame with a machine clamp on the opposite side, then later inside the frame on the same side as the starting clamp. Unless you have a LO machine (NEOS is a LO but some use a Wise) or you build in slack on the tail end you will have a difficult time getting your string out of the tensioner. Third I know it is minimal but I don't like pulling tension directly on a machine like you're doing. None of that happens if you use a starting knot, and an extra benefit is there is never any drawback.

EDIT: A better method of replacing the starting clamp is as I suggested in post #16 if you prefer to use a starting clamp.

 

[kkm]

Makes sense in what you're explaining but IMO it's a bad practice. First thing I don't like is you have to clamp the top cross outside the frame with a starting clamp, then inside the frame with a machine clamp on the opposite side, then later inside the frame on the same side as the starting clamp. Unless you have a LO machine (NEOS is a LO but some use a Wise) or you build in slack on the tail end you will have a difficult time getting your string out of the tensioner. Third I know it is minimal but I don't like pulling tension directly on a machine like you're doing. None of that happens if you use a starting knot, and an extra benefit is there is never any drawback.

EDIT: A better method of replacing the starting clamp is as I suggested in post #16 if you prefer to use a starting clamp.

I pull the top cross at knot tension the first time around.

On your second point I've never had a difficult time getting the string out of the tensioner.

On your third point the pull to get the starting clamp off is such a short duration and I've never had any issues. Additionally some people say that it's not great to start mains the conventional way with the machine clamp and a starting clamp backing it up because it's a strain on the machine clamp. Well, tons of tour stringers use that and only that and if there were terrible issues with it I don't think tour stringers would be using it as they do.

 

[ricardo]

what's the reason for not using the starting clamp on all occasions?

When I am short of cross string, I don't use my starting clamp because it needs about 18 inches of tail to reach my gripper.
A starting knot need only a much shorter tail to work with.

 

[jim e]

You can use a finishing knot to start cross stings without a starting clamp as well as long as a proper technique is used.
You pull both 2 top cross strings at once just to place fixed machine clamp on 2nd cross string inside the frame farthest from the tension head just to set the anchor clamp in place.
Now pull the top cross string and tie off, weave 3rd cross string, and pull 2nd cross string remove anchor clamp , clamp as normal to hold 2nd cross, continue as normal.
I submitted this to the USRSA a few years back and they published it in their magazine.