Hindrance?

[Steffie]

Played in a USTA match last night and the net player held her racket straight up in the air while her partner served his first serve to me, each time. I was playing in the deuce court and she was right handed - this created a true distraction as her racket was in my line of sight. Thoughts?

 

[bobbybob14]

Did they do it on the ad side as well?

 

[esgee48]

Not a hindrance as long as they don’t wave it.

 

[HBK4life]

I’m more curious as to why someone would do this?

 

[bobbybob14]

I played with a guy as part of his preparation would raise his racket on the forehand side above his head. I know he never did it on purpose it was just part of his flow. Over the years I saw people stop points because they thought that he was signaling something to them. I think he believed that it reminded him to get his racket up.

 

[socallefty]

No hindrance.

 

[Steffie]

Did they do it on the ad side as well?

No they didn’t

 

[Steffie]

Did they do it on the ad side as well?

No they did not

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Not a hindrance. Weird for sure though.

 

[sureshs]

I know a USTA umpire. Let me ask him and get back.

 

[kevrol]

Can you prove she did it solely to distract you? If you can't then you can't claim a hindrance.

 

[jimmy8]

Cheaters cheat. If you ask a cheater if cheating is cheating, they usually say no because they want to continue to do it and get away with it and be ok within their own heads with doing it.

Honest people don't cheat. If an honest person hinders someone, they admit to it. Honest people don't make excuses/justifications for cheating.

 

[zaskar1]

Played in a USTA match last night and the net player held her racket straight up in the air while her partner served his first serve to me, each time. I was playing in the deuce court and she was right handed - this created a true distraction as her racket was in my line of sight. Thoughts?

steffie
why is this a distraction. you should be watching the servers motion and focus on where they are serving?
its a borderline "legal" possible hinderance.
sounds like you need to focus, the opponents can stand and do whatever they like as long as they arent waving their racquets or making noise to try to distract you.
anyway just hit the return at her, aim for the body, you dont want to hurt anyone!
thats what i would do if they are trying to "hinder" you.

but i think if shes standing there, its totally legal.

z

 

[Creighton]

steffie
why is this a distraction. you should be watching the servers motion and focus on where they are serving?

That is literally steffie's complaint, that the racquet was in her line of sight so she couldn't watch the server's motion...

 

[graycrait]

I would Lendlize that net person on the return just for the fact their racket wasn't in the ready position. I like teaching others how to play tennis.

 

[PRS]

Played in a USTA match last night and the net player held her racket straight up in the air while her partner served his first serve to me, each time. I was playing in the deuce court and she was right handed - this created a true distraction as her racket was in my line of sight. Thoughts?

Definitely gamesmanship, but I don't think it would be hindrance. If you were serving and it was between you and the service box, I think it would be, but unfortunately I don't think you could call this hindrance. Should they do it? No. Are they being a little unsportsmanlike? Yes. But I don't think there's anything you can do about it unfortunately, except try to avoid playing with them.

 

[EggSalad]

Seems like the net player was asking for target practice and I would have gladly obliged every single time.

 

[am1899]

Not a hindrance.

I would have been ripping returns line often.

 

[J D]

Of course it’s a hindrance, not just by rule but by the spirit of the rules.

From the Code
“35) A player may feint with the body while the ball is in play. A player may change position at any time, including while the Server is tossing the ball. Any movement or sound that is made solely to distract an opponent, including, but not limited, to waving the arms or racket or stamping the feet, is not allowed.”

Of course no one holds their racquet straight up over their head right before a point starts. There is no reason a Ref (or rational person) could accept for doing so. It is obviously to distract or hinder the opponent.

Also, from the Preface to The Code:
“Sportsmanship is the foundation of tennis….
These attributes include, but are not limited to:
• Understanding and following the rules
• Being fair
• Acting with character
• Respecting others….”

Gamesmanship and general jerkiness has no place in tennis. Everyone has to work together for the game to work. Otherwise, it just devolves into chaos. For example, I could technically call every one of my opponents’ shots out. It’s my call according to the rules, right? But what kind of game would that be?

 

[jimmy8]

Of course it’s a hindrance, not just by rule but by the spirit of the rules.

From the Code
“35) A player may feint with the body while the ball is in play. A player may change position at any time, including while the Server is tossing the ball. Any movement or sound that is made solely to distract an opponent, including, but not limited, to waving the arms or racket or stamping the feet, is not allowed.”

Of course no one holds their racquet straight up over their head right before a point starts. There is no reason a Ref (or rational person) could accept for doing so. It is obviously to distract or hinder the opponent.

Also, from the Preface to The Code:
“Sportsmanship is the foundation of tennis….
These attributes include, but are not limited to:
• Understanding and following the rules
• Being fair
• Acting with character
• Respecting others….”

Gamesmanship and general jerkiness has no place in tennis. Everyone has to work together for the game to work. Otherwise, it just devolves into chaos. For example, I could technically call every one of my opponents’ shots out. It’s my call according to the rules, right? But what kind of game would that be?

Unfortunately, this is USTA, world of cheating, gamesmanship, jerkiness, do whatever it takes to win. People in USTA want to win so bad, they stoop to new levels of low. Sandbagging and calling everything out is an art to them. Since so many people are cheating, the only way to win is to cheat yourself. Many people here play USTA and many have fallen into the - I have to cheat to win, there's no other way to win, I want to win so bad. They did it so I can do it.

 

[J D]

A hindrance is any action done solely for the purpose of distracting an opposing player and is illegal. Every possible hindrance is not named in the rules.

Holding your racket up in the line of sight between the server and returner until right before the serve is nothing but an attempt to distract. The fact that it’s a hindrance as defined by the rules could not be any clearer.

People only get away with this stuff if you let them.

 

[JordanWinning]

this is another thread that has me curious about what percentage of adult tennis players play other sports and grew up playing other sports. If I’m correctly understanding this situation, it sounds wildly annoying and distracting, but I wonder how it compares to the spirit and actions of other sports.
Basketball, where talking crazy isn’t just part of the game, but expected, and people are actively trying to distract you while shooting, versus golf where a literal sneeze 100 yards away will get you a warning from a course official.

I’m curious how people with different sports backgrounds are affected or if part of it is the stark difference of expected environments.

 

[pabletion]

Of course it’s a hindrance, not just by rule but by the spirit of the rules.

From the Code
“35) A player may feint with the body while the ball is in play. A player may change position at any time, including while the Server is tossing the ball. Any movement or sound that is made solely to distract an opponent, including, but not limited, to waving the arms or racket or stamping the feet, is not allowed.”

What about squeaking / shuffling feet? I mean.... "on purpose" you know what I mean?
Ostapenko for example does it on EVERY return of serve, just before her opponent serves. I guess its considered a natural motion and different than stomping right?

 

[Pass750]

Played in a USTA match last night and the net player held her racket straight up in the air while her partner served his first serve to me, each time. I was playing in the deuce court and she was right handed - this created a true distraction as her racket was in my line of sight. Thoughts?

What level of play is this? Could it be a low level player who doesn’t know better?

 

[esgee48]

@pabletion Ostapenko is split stepping and moving into position to return serve, which is legal.

Several coaches in my area tell their students to keep their racquets up when (top of frame up) in the ready position. What OP is seeing is an extreme example of this cuz the student does not understand its purpose.

 

[sureshs]

I just talked to my friend the USTA umpire. It is not a hindrance if the service partner is not waving the racket. The racket can even be over the deuce court as long her feet are on the ad court. The logic is that the server is also hindered as his serve may hit his partner's racket so it cancels out.

 

[sureshs]

A hindrance is any action done solely for the purpose of distracting an opposing player and is illegal. Every possible hindrance is not named in the rules.

Holding your racket up in the line of sight between the server and returner until right before the serve is nothing but an attempt to distract. The fact that it’s a hindrance as defined by the rules could not be any clearer.

People only get away with this stuff if you let them.

No. See my post above.

 

[jimmy8]

A hindrance is any action done solely for the purpose of distracting an opposing player and is illegal. Every possible hindrance is not named in the rules.

Holding your racket up in the line of sight between the server and returner until right before the serve is nothing but an attempt to distract. The fact that it’s a hindrance as defined by the rules could not be any clearer.

People only get away with this stuff if you let them.

You'll learn all kinds of ways of cheating in this forum - making your child repeat a grade just for tennis even though they don't need to repeat that grade - how to change your rating so you can join a lower group and win nationals - how to distract by talking or making noise - what excuses to make to get away with things - how to use the rules for your benefit

 

[Dartagnan64]

Played in a USTA match last night and the net player held her racket straight up in the air while her partner served his first serve to me, each time. I was playing in the deuce court and she was right handed - this created a true distraction as her racket was in my line of sight. Thoughts?

If the racket was directly in your line of sight it would also distract the server. Everything's even at that point. But I would have asked the opponent why she did that. Often just asking the question gets people to stop strange behaviour.

 

[jimmy8]

I just talked to my friend the USTA umpire. It is not a hindrance if the service partner is not waving the racket. The racket can even be over the deuce court as long her feet are on the ad court. The logic is that the server is also hindered as his serve may hit his partner's racket so it cancels out.

If the racket was directly in your line of sight it would also distract the server. Everything's even at that point. But I would have asked the opponent why she did that. Often just asking the question gets people to stop strange behaviour.

If you're attracted to your opponent, strip down completely naked to distract. Maybe your opponent will also strip down to even out/cancel out the distraction.

 

[sureshs]

If the racket was directly in your line of sight it would also distract the server. Everything's even at that point.

That is exactly what the USTA umpire said.

Beyond that, there is no reason to ask any questions if it is legal.

 

[J D]

USTA officials are notorious for rendering bad decisions which involve judgment, proving once again that common sense isn’t common. USTA officials are just volunteer amateurs that have passed a written test and gone through a tiny bit of supervised informal officiating. Not exactly experts.

There is not a chair umpire in professional tennis that would let what the OP was describing slide.

Your friend needs to go read the home page on USTA officiating, which says:
“focusing on fair play and sportsmanship.”

Become a USTA Tennis Official | USTA

Learn how to become a USTA tennis official, tennis rules and regulations and what the different tennis official disciplines are. Click to learn more.

www.usta.com

 

[jimmy8]

.

 

[jimmy8]

this is another thread that has me curious about what percentage of adult tennis players play other sports and grew up playing other sports. If I’m correctly understanding this situation, it sounds wildly annoying and distracting, but I wonder how it compares to the spirit and actions of other sports.
Basketball, where talking crazy isn’t just part of the game, but expected, and people are actively trying to distract you while shooting, versus golf where a literal sneeze 100 yards away will get you a warning from a course official.

I’m curious how people with different sports backgrounds are affected or if part of it is the stark difference of expected environments.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2023/08/18/dc-northwest-little-league-cheating-allegations/

 

[Court-craft]

Played a lot of rugby and cricket growing up.

Cricket particularly involves opposition players trying to get into your head at every opportunity. Odd comments, personal jibes, and direct threats to hurt are commonplace.

I’ve played numerous tennis league games at multi sports clubs with rugby, cricket and football (association), going on alongside the tennis. I can assure you that, in the UK at least, tennis is saintly in comparison.

Added to which, in our tennis team practices you would frequently be barracked from the sidelines. The classic would be when a lob was thrown up high. The player lining up the overhead would get a volume of building cheers, followed by a heap of friendly abuse if he missed it. It’s part of being in a team and brilliant for honing the mind against any outside influences.

 

[sureshs]

USTA officials are notorious for rendering bad decisions which involve judgment, proving once again that common sense isn’t common. USTA officials are just volunteer amateurs that have passed a written test and gone through a tiny bit of supervised informal officiating. Not exactly experts.

There is not a chair umpire in professional tennis that would let what the OP was describing slide.

Your friend needs to go read the home page on USTA officiating, which says:
“focusing on fair play and sportsmanship.”

Become a USTA Tennis Official | USTA

Learn how to become a USTA tennis official, tennis rules and regulations and what the different tennis official disciplines are. Click to learn more.

www.usta.com

This person is a very experienced umpire and has now qualified for D1 matches.

If you have a specific reference about this issue, then post it and I will ask him. Vague links don't cut it.

 

[jered]

The racket can even be over the deuce court as long her feet are on the ad court.

Wait. Per USTA rules the netplayer can stand anywhere. Hence Australian formation, etc. That lady can stand right in front of the server with her racquet up if she wants... which would be hilarious.

As for why she was holding the racquet up like that, I've noticed quite a few lower level players doing that in my area and I was curious, so I asked. The answer I got was that was how the tennis pro taught them to hold the racquet in a drill. I'm guessing the pro did that to get them to keep the racquet up and ready as an exaggeration and not for regular play but these players didn't understand that.

 

[sureshs]

Wait. Per USTA rules the netplayer can stand anywhere. Hence Australian formation, etc. That lady can stand right in front of the server with her racquet up if she wants... which would be hilarious.

As for why she was holding the racquet up like that, I've noticed quite a few lower level players doing that in my area and I was curious, so I asked. The answer I got was that was how the tennis pro taught them to hold the racquet in a drill. I'm guessing the pro did that to get them to keep the racquet up and ready as an exaggeration and not for regular play but these players didn't understand that.

You are right about the observation that the returner need not even have her feet in her own court. I kinda forgot that.

Many women hold up their rackets when they are a returner's partner. It is exactly for the reason you mentioned. Women take teaching pros seriously, unlike men. They literally follow all the instructions and it becomes a habit.

I keep my racket up but on the edge and within my body span. It is to prevent getting hit in the face by an errant serve.

 

[NTRP_3.75_Patrick_Rafter]

whos talking about guns? im a butcher, a very good one, i can quarter a pig in a blink of an eye, beware

Handle checks out.

Very bizarre behavior though. I might send a few up the line to send a message, particularly if they're not good volleyers.

 

[NTRP_3.75_Patrick_Rafter]

What about squeaking / shuffling feet? I mean.... "on purpose" you know what I mean?
Ostapenko for example does it on EVERY return of serve, just before her opponent serves. I guess its considered a natural motion and different than stomping right?

Solely being the operative word.

Grunting can be very obnoxious but people do it for a variety of reasons. I barely even notice feet shuffling and stuff. Many times where I am playing there's all kinds of background noise and whatnot. Other matches, soccer games in the park, kids on playground, there are train tracks right near Lexington CC in Lexington, SC that can be incredibly distracting, not to say that it's a hindrance because it isn't but if I am having to listen to all this other stuff no way am I caring or even noticing a grunt or shuffling feet or anything else my opponent might be doing unless it is totally clear and obvious.

 

[NTRP_3.75_Patrick_Rafter]

Wait. Per USTA rules the netplayer can stand anywhere. Hence Australian formation, etc. That lady can stand right in front of the server with her racquet up if she wants... which would be hilarious.

As for why she was holding the racquet up like that, I've noticed quite a few lower level players doing that in my area and I was curious, so I asked. The answer I got was that was how the tennis pro taught them to hold the racquet in a drill. I'm guessing the pro did that to get them to keep the racquet up and ready as an exaggeration and not for regular play but these players didn't understand that.

I've seen a few players do it too and while it's incredibly weird if not distracting (because it looks funny) I am not calling a hindrance on that.

 

[Dartagnan64]

That is exactly what the USTA umpire said.

Beyond that, there is no reason to ask any questions if it is legal.

There are any number of actions that are legal but poor sportsmanship. If someone is pushing the line on sportsmanship, I think it's perfectly valid to call them on it with a question. Shaming is still an effective teaching tool even if it's been removed from all levels of education.

 

[WYK]

this is another thread that has me curious about what percentage of adult tennis players play other sports and grew up playing other sports. If I’m correctly understanding this situation, it sounds wildly annoying and distracting, but I wonder how it compares to the spirit and actions of other sports.
Basketball, where talking crazy isn’t just part of the game, but expected, and people are actively trying to distract you while shooting, versus golf where a literal sneeze 100 yards away will get you a warning from a course official.

I’m curious how people with different sports backgrounds are affected or if part of it is the stark difference of expected environments.

Baseball is insane the amount of noise and 'hindrances' allowed. Just ridiculous. And it's meant to be a family game, too.
I mean, spend some time in the first few rows along the 1st or 3rd plate and just watch the abuse hurled onto the field, both verbal and physical.
I've had a few times at bat in HS where the catcher and I were straight up **** talking each other the entire time.
All the Umpire had to say was 'Now now, no one's mother is THAT fat.'

In the OP's case, if it were in fact the situation where my opponent was blocking my view of the server, I would let them know this pretty quickly. If they insisted, I'd make it clear I felt they could win the game with skill, or they can try and mess around, and politely remind them that we make all the line calls on our side of the court.

 

[sureshs]

There are any number of actions that are legal but poor sportsmanship. If someone is pushing the line on sportsmanship, I think it's perfectly valid to call them on it with a question. Shaming is still an effective teaching tool even if it's been removed from all levels of education.

I don't think there are "any number" of such actions. The rules and the Code cover most of them. Given that the server's partner can even be on the server's court, raising the racket (but not waving it) would seem to be fully within the spirit of the rules because many serve partners keep their rackets raised in the waiting position when in the usual court. You see that commonly with players standing close to the net.

 

[mpnv1990]

I would ask the opponent to stop and leave if they refused. That’s bullsh*t!

 

[cks]

I don't think there are "any number" of such actions.

I do. I thought this is where "gamesmenship" would come into play. Where you are technically trying to bend the rules, but not break them, to gain an advantage.

 

[sureshs]

I do. I thought this is where "gamesmenship" would come into play. Where you are technically trying to bend the rules, but not break them, to gain an advantage.

Give me examples of "any number" of such cases

 

[jimmy8]

Why do most people on this forum think there is no such thing as a hindrance?

If I throw a grenade on the other side of the court during a point and it explodes and knocks both doubles opponents over and creates a large crater on the opponents side of the court, is that hindrance? And is it OK that I make a new rule from then on that there are no more changing sides?

Answers from most forum members: No, it's not a hindrance because he never admitted to intentionally throwing the grenade. No, it's not a hindrance, it's not a big deal, just get up and play the rest of the point and then play the rest of the match. No, it's not a hindrance because the crater is only 1 inch deep and only 20 inches in diameter, you can just avoid that area, and if the ball bounces there, so what if it's a weird bounce, weird bounces happen all the time, just hit the ball and play on. And if they want to stay on one side, just let them, you're saving energy from not having to walk all the way over to the other side of the court. Anyone who complains about a little grenade is a big baby.

 

[jimmy8]

I don't think there are "any number" of such actions. The rules and the Code cover most of them. Given that the server's partner can even be on the server's court, raising the racket (but not waving it) would seem to be fully within the spirit of the rules because many serve partners keep their rackets raised in the waiting position when in the usual court. You see that commonly with players standing close to the net.

Just because you don't look at your opponents toss to predict where the ball is going and move early in anticipation because the server is an ace machine, doesn't mean other people don't need to see the opponents toss. You can't block useful information that would help me win more points. So your arguments are not valid.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Give me examples of "any number" of such cases

dawdling, speed serving, "bathroom breaks" when you're losing, returner's partner moving around during toss, calling close balls out, multiple re-tosses, always returning first serves.

Just a few things off the top of my head.