How bad could you play with a wooden racquet?
- Thread starter Dimitrov
- Start date
6-2/6-4/6-0
Semi-Pro
Depending on your strokes, you could play very badly. I play with woods regularly, and I still need a good hour of hitting to get used to them again when I play for too long with my graphite rackets (and those are all early-80s super-flexible mid-head rackets, so if you use newer, bigger stuff I would expect longer).
Different strokes bring out the most from a wooden racquet. The angle of the head has to be different hitting the ball because of the flex and the dense string pattern in my experience. I also find that my follow-through needs to be higher and my preparation earlier.
Ultimately, because they are more demanding, and because of the way that you have to play with them that I love wooden-racquet play so much. As Rod Laver said, today's equipment is like cheating...
Different strokes bring out the most from a wooden racquet. The angle of the head has to be different hitting the ball because of the flex and the dense string pattern in my experience. I also find that my follow-through needs to be higher and my preparation earlier.
Ultimately, because they are more demanding, and because of the way that you have to play with them that I love wooden-racquet play so much. As Rod Laver said, today's equipment is like cheating...
coachrick
Hall of Fame
The key is to hit the middle(or low middle for most woods, lest they break and the ball land on your foot 
). There's plenty of power in the center of a wood racket; but if you shank with your latest aeropuredriveplusRafa racket, you will NOT be pleased with the reaction from a 65 sq in piece of wood hit on the frame.
If I only had to play one set, I'd likely look OK; but deep inside I would be concentrating like crazy to line the ball up and make sure I drove through the ball. You can weak-wrist a ball from baseline to baseline by hitting half on the frame with many of today's popular sticks...try that with a woodie and you'll be walking to the net to pick up your ball! My serves would be hard and flat first serves and 3/4 kick second serves(as long as my shoulder would hold out).
I would be VERY tired at the end of that set, BTW .
). There's plenty of power in the center of a wood racket; but if you shank with your latest aeropuredriveplusRafa racket, you will NOT be pleased with the reaction from a 65 sq in piece of wood hit on the frame.If I only had to play one set, I'd likely look OK; but deep inside I would be concentrating like crazy to line the ball up and make sure I drove through the ball. You can weak-wrist a ball from baseline to baseline by hitting half on the frame with many of today's popular sticks...try that with a woodie and you'll be walking to the net to pick up your ball!
My serves would be hard and flat first serves and 3/4 kick second serves(as long as my shoulder would hold out).I would be VERY tired at the end of that set, BTW
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Mick
Legend
it depends on how good your opponent is. if he is a good player, you would wish that you were playing him with a modern racquet. if he is not so good, it shouldn't be too bad because you wouldn't have to return the ball from difficult positions most of the time so the wood racquet only feels like it is lacking power
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You definitely could wind up playing rather badly, although it may also be the case that you could play quite well.
I use an oversize, but I often play with the woods. Funny thing is that most days I hit the ball pretty cleanly with the woods (except the vilas... that's 50/50 for clean hitting days), whereas I shank the ball more than most people when I'm using the oversize. I think it might be a maneuverability issue that accounts for the difference despite the smaller headsize.
It's much more physically demanding and if you are looking to get some air under the ball hitting a spinny western or semi-western forehand, it helps to string it really loose. If you play an athletic power game, you will probably feel pretty good hitting with it.
Returns are always difficult. (Especially when it starts getting above 110mph)
I use an oversize, but I often play with the woods. Funny thing is that most days I hit the ball pretty cleanly with the woods (except the vilas... that's 50/50 for clean hitting days), whereas I shank the ball more than most people when I'm using the oversize. I think it might be a maneuverability issue that accounts for the difference despite the smaller headsize.
It's much more physically demanding and if you are looking to get some air under the ball hitting a spinny western or semi-western forehand, it helps to string it really loose. If you play an athletic power game, you will probably feel pretty good hitting with it.
Returns are always difficult. (Especially when it starts getting above 110mph)
http://www.photostringer.com/racquets_prince_god.htm
this trumps all for small headsize.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dyl3YQKGxo
here's the commercial
God has an awesome tennis game, perfect form, with unlimited power.
this trumps all for small headsize.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dyl3YQKGxo
here's the commercial
God has an awesome tennis game, perfect form, with unlimited power.
I actually play very well with a woodie as i have very classic strokes and can keep up with 4.0 players quite well. I usually just break out the woodies when i hit with girls and 3.0 and lower...anyone else gets the PS 85
The feel of the wood and natural gut is like nothing else. Slice backhands are vicious. I think it helps my game playing with wood especially when volleying as you have to really focus or you will mishit a lot.
The feel of the wood and natural gut is like nothing else. Slice backhands are vicious. I think it helps my game playing with wood especially when volleying as you have to really focus or you will mishit a lot.
A friend of mine still uses a wood racquet with natural gut, and this guy is dangerous, especially his slice backhand. He won a 4.5 tournament years ago. We sometimes vacation at Palm Springs just to play on the grass there---his serve n volley is pretty impressive. (But I beat him on the clay there with my POG....)
robbo1970
Hall of Fame
I only ever use wooden racquets.
I've tried modern racquets but don't seem to have the feel I get with wood.
I would imagine switching from a modern racquet to a woodie would be challenging at first but once you adjust to the extra weight its great fun, especially when you get your racquets out in a match and it immediately throws your opponenets concentration
I've tried modern racquets but don't seem to have the feel I get with wood.
I would imagine switching from a modern racquet to a woodie would be challenging at first but once you adjust to the extra weight its great fun, especially when you get your racquets out in a match and it immediately throws your opponenets concentration
retrowagen
Hall of Fame
Me too. If one has long, smooth strokes that were honed on small-headed frames, it's not really that big a deal. Return of serve, and volley seem to be the most challenging facets, but it's actually quite fun - you really have to work a degree harder to achieve the same effect as with a more modern (maybe crutch-like?) piece of equipment.
Tell you what, though: the level of satisfaction when you've held your own with an old standard wood is immense. Like doing a fast lap of the Nürburgring in a 60's vintage 911S with a 5-speed and rather tricky handling. You know you're pretty good, and you know how you fit into history.
Fearsome Forehand
Professional
Yes, I have done so successfully. Not really that hard to do.
The main difference will be the loss of power due to the increased flex of a wood racket over a graphite frame, even when compared to a relatively flexible graphite frame.
The typical 68 inch head size is much less forgiving than an 85 to 95/100 inch modern player's frame. One can make adjustments, aim higher to get more depth, etc. You can still hit nasty spin with a wood racket due to the increased dwell time. The ball seems to sit on the strings longer compared to a graphite frame. And you can still hit with pace. It is just not as easy as with a modern frame. You can't pull off on the dead run passing shots from ten feet behind the baseline with a wood racket. The touch part of one's game; slice bh's, drop shots, drop volleys, etc., might actually be enhanced somewhat over graphite.
Tennis Magazine did an article about 10 or 15 years ago that featured Mark P hitting serves with a wood racket. He was still able to hit serves 120+ even with wood.
It is fun to hit with these things on occasion but, at least in my case, they tend to make me run over to my bag to change to a modern frame after about 10 minutes of hit and giggle tennis. Wood rackets are a different world.
It would be fun to play in a wood doubles tournament where everyone had the same handicap racket-wise. I would expect to see many more shanks than usual though.
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Bjornborg23
New User
The Wood Racquet is Real Tennis
If you chose to use a wood racquet, you can find out how skilled you really are. to be able to use your body and timing, for a stroke that is not a arm swing.
The feel of wood would help correct any flaws in your game, and create a better overall stroke. The ones who get frustrated using a wood racquet are those with poor strokes, and use too much are swing instead of balance and footwork.
If you chose to use a wood racquet, you can find out how skilled you really are. to be able to use your body and timing, for a stroke that is not a arm swing.
The feel of wood would help correct any flaws in your game, and create a better overall stroke. The ones who get frustrated using a wood racquet are those with poor strokes, and use too much are swing instead of balance and footwork.
joe sch
Legend
Same for me. I use an eastern grip and my main racket is a pc600 with gut/poly hybrid but prefer all gut in a woody. It does also depend on the opponent as a guy hitting extreme spin/pace will make it more challenging with a 65" woody.
Lance L
Semi-Pro
We recently had a wooden racquet tournament. Groundstrokes were not bad, serve was fine. I found volleying almost impossible.
In the end I think the strings were way too loose, I was using very old strings. If felt like I was hitting with a trampoline. I would like to try it again with proper string tension.
In the end I think the strings were way too loose, I was using very old strings. If felt like I was hitting with a trampoline. I would like to try it again with proper string tension.
onehandbh
G.O.A.T.
Just got back from playing a couple sets using my jack kramer prostaff wood racquet on a clay court. My friend and I decided to play with retro racquets today. He had a T2000.
Some observations:
Strings:
- I need softer and thinner strings. The 15g synthgut isn't that great on it.
Racquet size:
- On clay, the smaller head sizes makes bad bounces tougher to hit.
- I'm not the cleanest hitter, but for some reason tonight I hit pretty cleanly with the JK prostaff. I did make a conscious effort to get in position better, though.
Serves:
- My flatter first serves were still decent. Maybe a litle less velocity, but not much less.
- second serves were tougher. I couldn't get as much topspin, but the slice serve was actually better on the deuce court.
groundstrokes:
- the hardest shots were on the run passing shots where I could barely get a racquet on the ball.
- slice backhands were actually pretty good with it. Especially on returns and approach shots.
- half volleys were tougher.
- dropshots were not bad but had less spin.
- I also noticed that it's hard to hit a groundstroke if you hit it late, are out of position, etc. With a bigger racquet you can make last minute adjustments and still hit a halfway decent shot, with a wood racquet, you'll end up hitting a weak shot that is attackable or worse you might not even hit the ball over the net.
Overall, it was pretty fun but challenging.
Some observations:
Strings:
- I need softer and thinner strings. The 15g synthgut isn't that great on it.
Racquet size:
- On clay, the smaller head sizes makes bad bounces tougher to hit.
- I'm not the cleanest hitter, but for some reason tonight I hit pretty cleanly with the JK prostaff. I did make a conscious effort to get in position better, though.
Serves:
- My flatter first serves were still decent. Maybe a litle less velocity, but not much less.
- second serves were tougher. I couldn't get as much topspin, but the slice serve was actually better on the deuce court.
groundstrokes:
- the hardest shots were on the run passing shots where I could barely get a racquet on the ball.
- slice backhands were actually pretty good with it. Especially on returns and approach shots.
- half volleys were tougher.
- dropshots were not bad but had less spin.
- I also noticed that it's hard to hit a groundstroke if you hit it late, are out of position, etc. With a bigger racquet you can make last minute adjustments and still hit a halfway decent shot, with a wood racquet, you'll end up hitting a weak shot that is attackable or worse you might not even hit the ball over the net.
Overall, it was pretty fun but challenging.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Very true.
Which is why I would love to see Nadal vs. Federer with both using wood racquets. Hmmm....I wonder who would win?
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Which makes what serve and volleyers were able to do with a wood racquet in the 60's and 70's even more incredible.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Really? The poly strings didn't just saw right through the wooden hoop (even if it is reinforced)?
navigator
Hall of Fame
I definitely play better with my 98-inch graphite racquet, but... not *that* much better. Of course, my strokes are straight out of the '70s. When I started playing again last June ('13) after 27 years away from the court, I decided to use wood racquets to make playing as difficult as possible to force myself to hit the ball correctly ("correctly" in the classic sense, to be clear). I think I used them for about 6 months before switching over to graphite. During that time I won all of my 4.5 matches and me and my partner won a wood racquet doubles tournament at the 4.5 level. Personally, like McEnroe, I'd prefer it if everyone had to use wood racquets - in relative terms my game would be better (because other folks really struggle) - but I definitely play a bit better with graphite. Here are my custom-painted Slazengers:
joe sch
Legend
I definitely play better with my 98-inch graphite racquet, but... not *that* much better. Of course, my strokes are straight out of the '70s. When I started playing again last June ('13) after 27 years away from the court, I decided to use wood racquets to make playing as difficult as possible to force myself to hit the ball correctly ("correctly" in the classic sense, to be clear). I think I used them for about 6 months before switching over to graphite. During that time I won all of my 4.5 matches and me and my partner won a wood racquet doubles tournament at the 4.5 level. Personally, like McEnroe, I'd prefer it if everyone had to use wood racquets - in relative terms my game would be better (because other folks really struggle) - but I definitely play a bit better with graphite. Here are my custom-painted Slazengers:
Those woody paint jobs are slazenger challenge #1's and what else ?
Impressive story coming back after almost 3 decades and playing woods against the San Diego 4.5 usta competition and going undefeated on both singles and doubles !
Were you a D1 college player ?
navigator
Hall of Fame
^^ I can't remember which Slazengers those are... once they got painted I forgot the original names.
I was a reasonably competitive junior player but I did not play tennis in college. However, I'm pretty sure my high school team would've beaten the bottom 1/3 of Division I tennis teams at the time (early- to mid-80s). We had two guys that were ultimately in the top-150 on the tour (one was a two-time finalist in the NCAA tournament) and the majority of my teammates played Division I tennis. We were undefeated all four years I played. So, for all intents and purposes, I played for a weakish Division 1 team... in high school.
I was a reasonably competitive junior player but I did not play tennis in college. However, I'm pretty sure my high school team would've beaten the bottom 1/3 of Division I tennis teams at the time (early- to mid-80s). We had two guys that were ultimately in the top-150 on the tour (one was a two-time finalist in the NCAA tournament) and the majority of my teammates played Division I tennis. We were undefeated all four years I played. So, for all intents and purposes, I played for a weakish Division 1 team... in high school.
Brian11785
Hall of Fame
I play with a Chris Evert American Star on occasion. I mostly use it for wall hitting; it has been a great game-improvement (in the literal, not marketing sense of the word) racquet for me. It is about 12 oz. and really headlight. Strung it with Prince Lightning and it plays like a dream. Have the Jimmy Connors American Star as well. Basically the same racquet but a little heavier and waaaay too flexible.
My partner and I won a doubles match pretty quickly one time, and our opponents wanted to play a third set for fun. I pulled out the Evert, and we won that set by the same margin as the first.
The key is to forget that topspin exists. If you can hit the ball hard and flat off of both wings, you won't have a problem. I am typically a terrible volleyer, but I found myself playing better at the net than with my normal 95" frame. Beats me why. Maybe because I knew I didn't have the margin of error to be sloppy. So I was concentrating more.
I am a 3.5/4.0, but I guarantee that my style game (two hands on both sides, good lobs and droppers) is about as suited for playing with a wood racquet as a baseliner's game could be. I feel like I could beat a lot of players better than I am if we were both using wood. I would say I am a solid wood 4.0. Maybe higher. Trademarking that term.
My partner and I won a doubles match pretty quickly one time, and our opponents wanted to play a third set for fun. I pulled out the Evert, and we won that set by the same margin as the first.
The key is to forget that topspin exists. If you can hit the ball hard and flat off of both wings, you won't have a problem. I am typically a terrible volleyer, but I found myself playing better at the net than with my normal 95" frame. Beats me why. Maybe because I knew I didn't have the margin of error to be sloppy. So I was concentrating more.
I am a 3.5/4.0, but I guarantee that my style game (two hands on both sides, good lobs and droppers) is about as suited for playing with a wood racquet as a baseliner's game could be. I feel like I could beat a lot of players better than I am if we were both using wood. I would say I am a solid wood 4.0. Maybe higher. Trademarking that term.
Timbo's hopeless slice
Hall of Fame
I seriously can't understand how ppl find it hard to volley with a woodie. Just put the thing in front of the ball, you'll be fine!
I find serving anything other than flat or slice very difficult with my Maxply, but otherwise it's great.
I quite often take it out on Saturday mornings for a bit of casual doubles and always draw a bit of a crowd.
I'm much like navigator in that , while I certainly play better with my modern frames, the difference isn't huge, except maybe for serving, and I can hit ground strokes incredibly hard with the old girl
I find serving anything other than flat or slice very difficult with my Maxply, but otherwise it's great.
I quite often take it out on Saturday mornings for a bit of casual doubles and always draw a bit of a crowd.
I'm much like navigator in that , while I certainly play better with my modern frames, the difference isn't huge, except maybe for serving, and I can hit ground strokes incredibly hard with the old girl
I grew up with them therefore I play very well. They are very accurate, feel is amazing. I can hit almost the same power on the serve. Obviously, I can't take the same big swings on groundstrokes or play defense as well.
I like to warm up with one to fine tune my stroke. Then, when I play a match my 98 feels huge, like I can't miss.
I like to warm up with one to fine tune my stroke. Then, when I play a match my 98 feels huge, like I can't miss.
tennisdad65
Hall of Fame
I am a classical s&v player with flat strokes and it is not too different.
For me:
The biggest loss is on the serve.
Volleys are better with a wooden racquet. No need to underspin volleys.. Even with a solid punch, the volleys 'magnetically' bounce within 2-3 feet of the baseline.
Groundstrokes are about even initially, but the heavy racquet tires out the arm quickly.
For me:
The biggest loss is on the serve.
Volleys are better with a wooden racquet. No need to underspin volleys.. Even with a solid punch, the volleys 'magnetically' bounce within 2-3 feet of the baseline.
Groundstrokes are about even initially, but the heavy racquet tires out the arm quickly.
Rock Strongo
Legend
Even though my game revolves around hitting the ball big I don't have that many problems with a wooden racquet, having actually hit some of my hardest serves with one. My main issue is the one of consistency off the ground which is something that for me is impossible with a wooden racquet. I can take the same big cuts at the ball but more often than not they lack control.
goran_ace
Hall of Fame
I've played in a couple woodie events for fun at my club. While almost everyone else played their rackets as-is straight off the shelf from the thrift shop or pulled right out of the basement, I strung mine with fresh syngut and put a new grip on it. Fresh string helped a lot because otherwise the stringbed just feels dull. Response from the frame could be described as plush - but not in a good way, plush like an overstuffed couch. Sluggish is another word I'd use. You just can't whip it through the hitting zone.
Serving was not that big of a deal once you get used to the sweet spot being higher up and locate your toss. I didn't want to go for too much on serves and played it pretty safe because I didn't want to throw my shoulder out. Volleys were easy and took very little adjustment. Ground strokes is where I absolutely hated it. You can't get the same amount of spin with a wood racket and less spin means less control and less power. Luckily it felt so low powered that I wasn't so worried about hitting long. Also couldn't get enough topspin to bring the ball down on angled shots so hitting a chip or a slice and then following it in was the way to win.
Defense is probably the biggest difference. You have to get the mass of the thing moving forward really early, which means you have to prep really early for that shot. If you're pulled out wide on the run or moving backwards you can't just stab at the ball and put a racket on it to float it back, you have to at least take a squash shot swing at it to get it back over the net.
Playing wood against wood can be fun and if you have a chacne to play in a woodie event I'd highly recommend it to anyone at any level. It really makes you respect what the guys in the 70's and 80's were able to do with the ball. Watching Borg play just blows my mind. Against an opponent with a modern racket it would be interesting against someone a notch or two below you, but against someone on the same level forget about it. It's bringing a knife to a gun fight.
Serving was not that big of a deal once you get used to the sweet spot being higher up and locate your toss. I didn't want to go for too much on serves and played it pretty safe because I didn't want to throw my shoulder out. Volleys were easy and took very little adjustment. Ground strokes is where I absolutely hated it. You can't get the same amount of spin with a wood racket and less spin means less control and less power. Luckily it felt so low powered that I wasn't so worried about hitting long. Also couldn't get enough topspin to bring the ball down on angled shots so hitting a chip or a slice and then following it in was the way to win.
Defense is probably the biggest difference. You have to get the mass of the thing moving forward really early, which means you have to prep really early for that shot. If you're pulled out wide on the run or moving backwards you can't just stab at the ball and put a racket on it to float it back, you have to at least take a squash shot swing at it to get it back over the net.
Playing wood against wood can be fun and if you have a chacne to play in a woodie event I'd highly recommend it to anyone at any level. It really makes you respect what the guys in the 70's and 80's were able to do with the ball. Watching Borg play just blows my mind. Against an opponent with a modern racket it would be interesting against someone a notch or two below you, but against someone on the same level forget about it. It's bringing a knife to a gun fight.
Nole Ivanisevic
Rookie
I´ve played recently with a dunlop maxply,it is nearly impossible to hit hard topspin forehands.backhand slice were nice,surprisingly nice..maybe due to the heavy weight and the small head.Was fun imitating boris becker with a backhand blocker.But for modern play,it is garbage.
Asked myself How nadal with his playing style would compete against Borg in his best times in wimbledon with a wood racket.
Asked myself How nadal with his playing style would compete against Borg in his best times in wimbledon with a wood racket.
joe sch
Legend
What level and grip do you play ?
Im sure Rafa could hit a hard topspin with a wood racket !
Nadal vs Borg would have been a good matchup if both played woods as juniors.
If this was the case, Rafa would have developed different strokes, more old school like Bjorns.
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Nole Ivanisevic
Rookie
I play current 5.0 level,offensive baseliner with topspin forehand and a flat hit double handed backhand,sometimes slice.
My grip size is 3 with a babolat basic leather grip and two tourna overgrips.
In general,i was surprised how one could play with an old wood racket without practise.It could imagine that it gets a lot better with a new thin babolat vs or a pacific natural gut
My grip size is 3 with a babolat basic leather grip and two tourna overgrips.
In general,i was surprised how one could play with an old wood racket without practise.It could imagine that it gets a lot better with a new thin babolat vs or a pacific natural gut
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Nole Ivanisevic
Rookie
I also found in an old bag a spalding racquet in very good shape with a surprisingly combination of French White Ashwood with Boron Metal and Glass Fiber.It is unstrung.(Unfortunately,I don´t know how to post pictures directly here)
Seems that it is more dynamic than the old maxply.Not so heavy,but also very small head size.
Seems that it is more dynamic than the old maxply.Not so heavy,but also very small head size.
joe sch
Legend
The most significant issue most modern players have with playing smaller head rackets like standard woods is modern grip and strokes, i.e. extreme western and Nadal strokes. This is also why many modern players have trouble hitting good volleys, i.e. need to be comfortable hitting with conti grip.
Wood is good and a great way to appreciate the skill required to play the classic game. Everyone who bashes the classic era a tennis should first try hitting a classic woody ! This would make the question of "How bad could you play with a wooden racquet?" much more understandable.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
I doubt Nadal could do that with his current strokes. He tried a few years ago with a wood racquet and gave up after 10 minutes.
Nole Ivanisevic
Rookie
From my impression with a wood racquet,i also doubt that nadal could play his rotation spin with this headsize.These raquets are constructed for flat balls,it is arguable that nadals topspin would have the same effect as today.
Mick
Legend
Nadal probably would alter his strokes a little bit.
3.5 players in the forum can play with wood racquets. I am pretty sure a 14-time GS champion can do it too :shock:
Pretty sure the 3.5 players here cannot do this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al7x5fqCs88
3.5 players in the forum can play with wood racquets. I am pretty sure a 14-time GS champion can do it too :shock:
Pretty sure the 3.5 players here cannot do this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Al7x5fqCs88
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Mick
Legend
Yep. Borg hit topspin pretty hard in the clip below.
If Borg and Vilas could do it, why not Nadal ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MBymuwSvgg
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Well, yeah, he's using a wide-body APD. Let's see him do that with a thin beamed PS 6.0 85.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Because Borg and Vilas grew up using tiny and heavy 65 sq. in. 15 oz. wood racquets while Nadal grew up using massive 100 sq. in. 11 oz. lightweight monsters. Nadal would have to take 10 years off to totally re-learn his strokes from the beginning. :shock:Yep. Borg hit topspin pretty hard in the clip below.
If Borg and Vilas could do it, why not Nadal ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MBymuwSvgg
