How Good was the AO 2017 Final?
- Thread starter Aretium
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QuentinFederer
Professional
For me it was the greatest match of the greatest grand slam in history. It was just unbel18vably peRFect.
1HBHNation
Rookie
in historical context. this was the most important tennisn match ever played till now. I mean either way, someone was going to etch their name into the hands of destiny and tennis legend a little deeper. fed with this win is now distancing himself from the pack. nadal/had he won would reopen the 1-2 debate even more.... and with the French open coming up... who knows?
1HBHNation
Rookie
yea the crowd was so into it. it was pandemonium there. unbelieveable atmosphere. It was much more than a tennis match.
Tennisanity
Legend
I think quality of AO09 is overrated because the rallies were artificially longer due to the much slower surface. Longer rallies make the tennis seem better quality than it is. Did you watch some of the shots Fed made in 09 pounding the ball so hard and Nadal still gets to it. That's not really proper tennis on a hardcourt.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Not the highest quality Fedal match there's ever been but still very entertaining, the 5th set in particular.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
The first 4 sets of the 2009 AO final was the highest quality in a Slam final I've ever seen but then there's the anticlimatic 5th set.
2017 was lower quality but the drama was higher than in 2009.
2017 was lower quality but the drama was higher than in 2009.
PrestigeDave45
Semi-Pro
it was ok. No more no less.
Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
Your support in the match thread was unexpected, but appreciated.
TheMaestro1990
Hall of Fame
As for pure quality it was very much up and down depending on Roger's performance the first four sets. The last set was truly unforgettable though.
Quality wise it isn't up there, but for it's historical importance and the way the match turned out - with that fairy tail turnaround in the fifth - makes it one of the most memorable Grand Slam finals of all time. Will be talked about forever!
Quality wise it isn't up there, but for it's historical importance and the way the match turned out - with that fairy tail turnaround in the fifth - makes it one of the most memorable Grand Slam finals of all time. Will be talked about forever!
Charlemagne
Hall of Fame
The Aussie finals featuring Murray and Djokovic were waaaaaaaaaaaay better 
every7
Hall of Fame
Agree. The first four sets were uneven in that one player starred, and the other laboured. Still, the individual hitting by Fed and Nadal in their dominant sets was that dazzling that all is forgiven. And you knew the players were holding out on some mental engagement to pace themselves in the event of a fifth. Thank god they did. The fifth set was a feast of shot-making with almost every point occurring in an extremely dramatic context with pressure accumulating in a way I haven't experienced before. Legacies were being decided in the most brutal, heartbreaking way possible.
markwillplay
Hall of Fame
Drama was great for sure...but two sleeper sets. Best match of the tournament BY FAR was the Nadal Dimitrov semi. Quality and drama.
Inanimate_object
Hall of Fame
There were some good moments, but the match will surely be remembered more for the drama than the quality of play. It's probably 4th or 5th on the Federer-Nadal matches behind Wimbledon 08, Australia 09, Rome 06 and maybe one of their old masters cup finals I can't remember.
every7
Hall of Fame
LOL true.... I still don't think the messageboard system is back to normal yet. Talk about getting ridden hard and put away wet.....
Fed881981
Hall of Fame
First set: good
Second set: meh
Third set: great tennis by the GOAT. The best that I have seen him playing in a long time.
fourth set: good by Nadal, not too bad by Fed
Fifth: greatness in display by the GOAT
All in all: good match that defied expectations. The backhand of Fed was thing a beauty. I would give this match 7.5/10.
Second set: meh
Third set: great tennis by the GOAT. The best that I have seen him playing in a long time.
fourth set: good by Nadal, not too bad by Fed
Fifth: greatness in display by the GOAT
All in all: good match that defied expectations. The backhand of Fed was thing a beauty. I would give this match 7.5/10.
AiRFederer
Hall of Fame
The quality wasnt really that high in the first 4 sets in the sense that neither were both on at the same time. But the 5th happened and all is well.
This is definitely a top 3 "most dramatic" match in my fandom of tennis though. Up there with 08 wimby and a little higher than 09 wimby.
This is definitely a top 3 "most dramatic" match in my fandom of tennis though. Up there with 08 wimby and a little higher than 09 wimby.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Let's also keep the stakes in mind. In 2009, Fed hadn't even tied Pete, and Nadal was nowhere near GOAT status.
Had Nadal won, he would be in prime position to surpass Roger.
Quality wise, the first four sets in 2009 were higher level obviously, but the fifth set in 2017 exceeded 2009 in drama by a longshot.
Had Nadal won, he would be in prime position to surpass Roger.
Quality wise, the first four sets in 2009 were higher level obviously, but the fifth set in 2017 exceeded 2009 in drama by a longshot.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Just 7.5???
I mean the Dimitrov SF was tighter but the momentous occasion of two GOAT contenders clashing one last time makes it perhaps as exciting as Wimbledon 2008.
A
Attila_the_gorilla
Guest
I think the quality may have seemed to some to be a bit lower due to Federer's unforced errors. But you need to realize that playing lights out tennis carries a lot of risks (especially knowing your opponent's counterpunching skills), nobody has ever played consistent when going for it on each shot. This was about understanding the risks involved but still sticking to the gameplan.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
not even close to the 09 AO final!
about the same as Wimby 14, which wasn't spectacular.
what made this final special was the circumstance, far more than the game play which certainly wasn't bad but not amazing either.
georgemccauley
Rookie
Nowhere near their greatest ever match, painfully built up as "potentially the greatest match of all time" quality was up and down but the excitement fueled with a few extended rallies made for a very good final!!
Rhino
Legend
For me looking back over the past 15 or so years, this might be my favourite of all his matches. Not because of the level of play, but because of how long we've waited for this, and the drama that ensued along the way.
1) Finally he gets to 18. Four and a half years has been a LONG wait.
2) Nadal, his most complicated opponent, is the losing finalist.
3) The match had so many ups and downs. He was down a break in the 5th and yet somehow won 5 games in a row.
4) It widens the gap to 4 slams between him and Rafa/Sampras (instead of just 2 if he'd lost).
5) He is 35 years old and yet beat 4 top-10 players on route to the title!
6) His 3rd 5-set match. Has he ever played 3x 5 setters to win a major?
7) He didn't crack, with everything on the line, Rafa on the other side, he stayed true.
To me it was the most satisfying.
1) Finally he gets to 18. Four and a half years has been a LONG wait.
2) Nadal, his most complicated opponent, is the losing finalist.
3) The match had so many ups and downs. He was down a break in the 5th and yet somehow won 5 games in a row.
4) It widens the gap to 4 slams between him and Rafa/Sampras (instead of just 2 if he'd lost).
5) He is 35 years old and yet beat 4 top-10 players on route to the title!
6) His 3rd 5-set match. Has he ever played 3x 5 setters to win a major?
7) He didn't crack, with everything on the line, Rafa on the other side, he stayed true.
To me it was the most satisfying.
I don't know why some people say that this match wasn't necessarily of very high quality. About the only problem I saw was Fed's FH going of for two or three periods. Both players had more winners than unforced errors: Fed, 73 and 57, Nadal, 35 and 28.
This match is well ahead of Australian 2009. A match that ends with a 6-2 set cannot be considered on the same level.
This match is well ahead of Australian 2009. A match that ends with a 6-2 set cannot be considered on the same level.
Rafa the King
Hall of Fame
Quality wise? Not top 5 of Fedal matches.
Drama wise? Only surpassed by Wimbledon 08.
All in all? Probably behind Wimbledon 07, 08 and AO 09 but nothing less.
Drama wise? Only surpassed by Wimbledon 08.
All in all? Probably behind Wimbledon 07, 08 and AO 09 but nothing less.
Candide
Hall of Fame
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Good but not great, really Fed could have rolled him in 3 or 4. Nadal only delayed the inevitable in retrospect, he was outplayed for the majority of the match.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah, he was taken to five against Nish and Stan, but was going to roll Nadal in 3, ha
That wasn't possible regardless of the opponent - Federer can't sustain this level against an actual high-pressure opponent (not Birdie, lol) for three straight sets at this age, mental demons or not.
The 2nd set was quite a nervous choke, though, but then it was averted in the 3rd - that botting on BPs was clutch as hell.
The 4th set was mostly Nadal's work, Fed just lost concentration for a while and Nadal pounced, while also serving great towards the end of the set.
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
I wonder what those who say 6 or 7 out of 10 in "technical quality" actually mean? The stats imply great quality from both.
Tennis is a tactical sport. Federer tried to shorten the rallies as much as possible. That was his tactic, which led to a lot of UEs, but even more winners. Federer also denied Nadal from playing his tactic most of the match. A tactical triumph for Federer. Which to me means great quality (for Fed). Nadal will be a little more disppointed, but he said after the match that Roger played aggressively enough to prevent him (Nad) from getting into dictating rallies.
Would the match have had an overall higher "technical quality" if Federer had been passive and rallied more with Nadal?
The match was very intense, each point felt important, the contrasting styles have never been more obvious and appealing, and there was almost no cheap choke points anywhere to be seen. I thought it was a great match, with an unexpected outcome (which is a quality in its own right).
Tennis is a tactical sport. Federer tried to shorten the rallies as much as possible. That was his tactic, which led to a lot of UEs, but even more winners. Federer also denied Nadal from playing his tactic most of the match. A tactical triumph for Federer. Which to me means great quality (for Fed). Nadal will be a little more disppointed, but he said after the match that Roger played aggressively enough to prevent him (Nad) from getting into dictating rallies.
Would the match have had an overall higher "technical quality" if Federer had been passive and rallied more with Nadal?
The match was very intense, each point felt important, the contrasting styles have never been more obvious and appealing, and there was almost no cheap choke points anywhere to be seen. I thought it was a great match, with an unexpected outcome (which is a quality in its own right).
abmk
Bionic Poster
nadal was bound to win a set atleast, given fed's inconsistency ( and the fact that that kind of agressive tennis usually leads to a blip somewhere )
and what Octorok said .
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Yeah, he was taken to five against Nish and Stan, but was going to roll Nadal in 3, ha
That wasn't possible regardless of the opponent - Federer can't sustain this level against an actual high-pressure opponent (not Birdie, lol) for three straight sets at this age, mental demons or not.
The 2nd set was quite a nervous choke, though, but then it was averted in the 3rd - that botting on BPs was clutch as hell.
The 4th set was mostly Nadal's work, Fed just lost concentration for a while and Nadal pounced, while also serving great towards the end of the set.
Before the match I was thinking Nadal in 4. Just by the 3rd/4th set, Nadal was hanging on by a thread, and really could have lost in 4. Regardless of Nadal's level, it is SUPREMELY impressive for Federer to take 3 sets off of him outdoors, and it solidified his place as GOAT for me. No way I could see 35yo Djokovic or Murray beating the Rafa from the final.
MasturB
Legend
-Look. They're both a shell of themselves. Anyone thinking they were at the top of their games is out of their minds. Nadal and Fed let balls go past them that they would have returned years ago. They also were both making tons of suspect errors that wouldn't have happened before.
-The build up and drama of the match itself was top notch. Seeing both of these wounded warriors trying to outdo the other knowing they're just shells of their former selves was very entertaining.
-There were bits and pieces of nostalgic glory shots from both. Both turned back the clock a few times in the match but definitely not long enough quality to sustain most of the match.
-Fed is not better than he was 10 years ago, off the ground. His serve has definitely improved from then, but his prime serve was no slouch either.
-Nadal's serve is very much the same if not slightly improved. And I mean very slight.
-As for the result, 5 sets but it wasn't historic Fedal quality. I think the auras of both players helped the hype and "quality" on court seem better than it was. It was still a higher quality match than 99% of the tour. This will be a match I can rewatch for years just because of the 5th set drama alone. Nadal did not choke, Federer finally caught up with him. Anyone that says Nadal choked is out of their minds as well. He did the best arguably with what few tools he has left to work with. Part of the problems for sets 2-3-4 is the early breaks. Set 1 Fed broke roughly after the middle, but the others were early breaks and holds til they won the serve. 5th Set was a rollercoaster of emotions. Even though Nadal lost 5 straights games to lose the match, he didn't choke. Fed was just playing that well. His inside-out forehand htat he's been shanking a lot lately was zooming and booming.
-The build up and drama of the match itself was top notch. Seeing both of these wounded warriors trying to outdo the other knowing they're just shells of their former selves was very entertaining.
-There were bits and pieces of nostalgic glory shots from both. Both turned back the clock a few times in the match but definitely not long enough quality to sustain most of the match.
-Fed is not better than he was 10 years ago, off the ground. His serve has definitely improved from then, but his prime serve was no slouch either.
-Nadal's serve is very much the same if not slightly improved. And I mean very slight.
-As for the result, 5 sets but it wasn't historic Fedal quality. I think the auras of both players helped the hype and "quality" on court seem better than it was. It was still a higher quality match than 99% of the tour. This will be a match I can rewatch for years just because of the 5th set drama alone. Nadal did not choke, Federer finally caught up with him. Anyone that says Nadal choked is out of their minds as well. He did the best arguably with what few tools he has left to work with. Part of the problems for sets 2-3-4 is the early breaks. Set 1 Fed broke roughly after the middle, but the others were early breaks and holds til they won the serve. 5th Set was a rollercoaster of emotions. Even though Nadal lost 5 straights games to lose the match, he didn't choke. Fed was just playing that well. His inside-out forehand htat he's been shanking a lot lately was zooming and booming.
chut
Professional
You forgot that Rome final, it's easily one of their best matches !
Quality wise, that final wasn't as good as thoses they played when younger of course, they've lost a step or two but it was much, much better than what i expected. Both players had a positive W/UE ratio, they've had quite a few good rallies, it was a good match. What was strange was that it looked very much in Federer's hands and not a lot in Nadal's hands. Federer had highs and lows, while Nadal looked very stable, not often able to raise his level in order to take control of the game. Well, at least it looks like it in retrospect, as i watch some parts of the match yesterday.
In terms of tennis quality, it's a little bit better than Wimbledon 2014 Final imo, because i felt that in that particular match, Federer hanged in it only because of his serve and Djokovic was fighting against himself not to choke, because he knew all he had to do was to get the ball back in play and wait for the error. It had a lot of intensity and drama which make it a good match too, but the rallies weren't as good.
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
I think it's the wrong question. We should talk about the 5th set on its own. That was high quality and even higher drama.
Kalin
Legend
This, yes. Pity we missed out on the sexiest of finals... if only Grisho had converted those BPs
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