In praise of Kevlar/ZX hybrid!!!
- Thread starter marsh
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2nd Serve Ace
Hall of Fame
Stringing Ash Kev low is not the way to go. 60 is a big bump in comfort, control and spin compared to 40.
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Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Last sentence is so true but they probably whig because its kevlar and haven't ever tried kevlar with a cross that is nonlocking....
Sadly ashaway doesnt seem to do any kind of sponsoring afaik
Glad you are such a good guy helping her out. But really man D1 is probably not a high enough level for the industry to really notice....
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
I did another kevlar at 44 with 86lb crosses with nylon. super tight and locked. Very harsh in a lighemter racquet
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Congrats on the win man.
Yeah kev/zx is awesome if you hit the ball. That zx slicing the kevlar just means things are working. Also zx is one of the hardest strings so no wonder the kevlar gets sawed Get some electro crosses if you want to extend the life.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Grainof salt. For people newly trying that it makes sense. But if you prestretch things and have used kevlar it's a pretty dumb rec imho
It’s interesting, no doubt. Just can’t quite step ashore with Kevlar. Have had too much wear and tear over the years.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Yeah i get it. Hard to fathom kev not killing ones arm but things are different these days.
Once I ate sooo much pumpkin pie i got sick. And it was like 10 years before I ate pumpkin pie again...
Pumpkin pie is not known for making people sick but I understand your point. The longevity makes it interesting but it doesn’t sound like there is much more than I get with Gut/poly or full poly.
graycrait
Legend
I've tried Gut/Poly, and full poly a lot. For me the string depends a lot on the rackets I am swinging. I just enjoy being able to swing away with the joint comfort comfort Ash Kev x Zyex gives. Couple comfort with long lasting playability for about 12 bucks a stringbed.
travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
Kevlar/zx, strung with an optimal tension for the particular racquet, combines excellent control, excellent spin, unmatched comfort, and unmatched longevity of excellent playability. Full poly can’t hold a candle to it because it dents, lose playability and/or comfort over time, and feels like crap,
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tennisbike
Professional
Prestretched?
Noticed it’s $11 dollars and some change at several places. That pretty inexpensive. I’m getting 8hrs of good play out of TBHB7 at $5.00 a frame and don’t have to do all of the pre-stretch. 8-10hrs out of Gut/poly at $18 a frame.
You thinking it’s better playability than Gut/poly?
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Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Big difference. You go from super locked with the syngut to unlocked with zx. Its also less jarring. Ime its just better unless you are a flatt hitter or like a locked stringbed
What do think it would hit like in some of the Pro Staffs at 60/50? These frames can be tough on the arm with full poly strung over 52. Haven’t seen any frames at stringers to be strung with Kevlar since the early nineties but now that Crossfire is almost half price that may change.
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Tennis Passionate
Rookie
For me, this string bed combo is more comfortable than gut/poly. Moreover string bed doesn’t change much till breakage and control is out of the world. Peculiarly Only concern for me was the durability. I am getting around 16 hours before kev breaks which is not bad but many folks are getting around 30-40 hours. Current I am getting them strung @60/45 fully prestretched. Should I go @65/45 or @65/50 for more durability?
graycrait
Legend
The two best players that I know who play with this setup is a 5'9" UTR 10.4 19 yr old gal and the other is a 30 yr old 5'8" fella former college player. Gal uses Prince PCG 100 16x18 stock, dude uses some beat up Head 98" 18x20 Radicals. Both grew up properly coached. I use old Prince 90s 14x18, enthusiastic and shameless hack best desribes me.
tennisbike
Professional
I think 50 lb at cross string most likely will feel softer than 52 lb full bed poly. General recommendation here is do pre-stretch, add permanent elongation on both. I recommend leaving cross uncut, so that you have a chance to restring the cross.
It is not what you know that matters. It is your decision. Try it and decide for yourself. If you do not break the ZX while stringing, and you are not a string breaker, the Kevlar main will last you awhile (as you are trying different cross string setups).
Break while stringing? Not a string breaker? That is what this string combo is supposed to be for, string breakers. These are good reasons to not string this for anyone.
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Shroud
G.O.A.T.
I did the PS 85 at 60/40 and man that was awesome. That stick really had the ESP effect. Ball would pocket for days and be catapulted away unlike any other stringbed.
Advantage of kev/zx vs full poly is that the kevlar wont notch like the poly and so its never as tough on the arm as notched poly.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Maybe you are just a beast?? My two cents is that the bigger the differential the longer it may last. Its a guess really but there is less friction that way and friction is what gets the kevlar. Though it might be just the opposite because less friction, more movement and its the sawing that gets the kevlar.
But more differential more launch so perhaps less effort to get the ball deep so less stress on the stringbed.
Though electro crosses will help with longevity as will some lube.
tennisbike
Professional
There are string BREAKERS and there are STRING$ breakers. There is no absolute in life. There are experienced high volume stringers who breaks cheap guts and ZX. There are home/amateurs who take their time "massage" out each string jobs. They both exist in the same world. And then there is uncertainty in natural world.
It is up to the listener to find value in the communication. Unless whatever was stated was repeated too many times.
Cheers,
Whatever that means..but break on the stringer? Not interested in that happening in my natural world.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
2nd Serve Ace
Hall of Fame
While Ashaway Kevlar does have a high stiffness rating, it is also a braided, multifilament design that provides a lot more forgiveness than your typical mono poly string.
Ime, the more tension the Ash Kev has, the more the "flex" property of the braid is accentuated. Higher or lower tension doesn't really change the power level much, but there is greater trajectory control and some spin gains at higher tension as well.
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travlerajm
Talk Tennis Guru
A big advantage for comfort is that the braided surface stays soft and slides easily along the hard zx surface, so that the zx stays glassy smooth. Even poly dents a little when using Kevlar main, decreasing comfort.
Tennis Passionate
Rookie
No..I am just a 5.9, 155 lb guy but have a more than decent technique and hit the ball hard. Just wondering if my stringer is not doing it right..he is a trust worthy guy and he is doing the manual prestretch as well...one thing I notice and wonder is that ZX doesn’t come back to its position (behaves like a multi) if I move it manually and some times I would just correct it during the play...I thought it’s because of the high tensioned Kevlar..I feel that I get plenty of spin compared to any other setup I used, including full poly...this string bed is really addictive and complementing my type of game. I have 4 tc 95s and I get them strung with 4 different setups...weird but I like it this way...others with kev/zx, legend/max power, rslyon, proline ll...I use them based on the situation...but I hardly break strings and will get them restrung when I feel it’s not usable at all...probably around 20-25 hours...kev/zx is the only string combo that I consistently break at 15-16 hours..but I end up playing more with kev/zx recently and stringing 2 of them with kev/zx now....anyways my next try is 65/45 and hope for more durability...
Hmm..the durability would be the main reason to try those strings. Doesn’t sound like they are that durable if the Legend/Max Power lasts longer. Perfect conditions I can get 8-10 hours out of L/M. Less than perfect and they are gone in 2-3hrs.
Shroud may be able to resolve the issue.
graycrait
Legend
@Tennis Passionate , Are the Kevlar mains breaking by sawing through on the Zyex. Typically the Kevlar starts to fray considerably before breaking.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Dudes are using that combo because of playability. Did you read this dudes post about getting more spin
Sounds like some good qualities but would be strange if a Kevlar set up didn’t outlast gut/poly.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Its more a comment on the zx. Zx shreds every string eventually especially if you are spinny.
It destroyed gut so bad that i went back to kevlar. My kevlar beds never look like that
https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/shredded-some-gut-mains-today-now-what.514041/
tennisbike
Professional
In the spirit of exploration, and I know I will be rediculed, try putting Zx on main and kevlar on cross, prestretched of course. And see how that lasts. And see how it plays. That is the equivalent of poly/gut set up(smooth/rough), or gut/poly
soft/hard). I'm confused.
But see if the kevlar last longer. Tension? 50/46?
soft/hard). I'm confused. But see if the kevlar last longer. Tension? 50/46?
Tennis Passionate
Rookie
Yes...not the whole kev but just 3-4 spots in the middle and most part would still look good. Eventually one of these spots will get cut deeper and break...the cut normally starts around 10 hour mark but I still get around 5 more hours after that...anyways I am going to try @65/45 this time. Angell TC95 is around 60 RA string and 16x19...I hit with lot of spin and pace as well...all these factors may be playing a role as well...
graycrait
Legend
@Tennis Passionate , all I can say you have got to be hitting that ball with a lot more spin than I do, harder too. But all these D1 kids, including the ladies, hit with more spin consistently harder than this 64 yr old. How fast do you go through a set of poly? One of the young guys I hit with a couple of times was from Brazil and about 6'3". He would go through a set of poly in 2hrs. He told me he would need a good job just to keep himself in string. I'll be monitoring the young Russian gal to see how fast she breaks her string in her 100" 16x18. Thanks.
tennisbike
Professional
If you want to narrow the setup even more, I suggest change only the cross tension. Perhaps 65/47 next time. The resulting will be higher tension in bitg main n cross strings. Slightly more firm but still damped and no trampling. The theory is that tighter main will move less overall and less sawing action. And we look forward to your playtest result.
Tennis Passionate
Rookie
Yes i hit with good amount of spin and pace but i mostly hit in the sweet spot with less miss hits. As i mentioned earlier i am not a string breaker and i hardly break strings. Even poly i have them cut them out after 20+ hours once i feel its not usable. I am not sure, but since this is a lower powered setup, i may be swinging harder and generating more spin in the process i guess. My current set up is, kev 16/ZX 17 @60/45...Will 65/50 help? or 65/45 is better? Hopefully the comfort will still be there. If not i will try applying Elastocrosses on the ZX crosses in the sweet spot (never had to try this though). Hoping that nobody is taking this wrong. I really love this setup without any doubts and just trying to maximize the durability by taking you experts suggestions. I would recommend this setup to any kind of player. Its really tough to explain since all of us have different type of game, but kevlar in the setup shouldn't scare us away since ZX really softens up the string bed and its really one of the comfortable string beds. I would still use this setup even if i can't get more than 15-16 hours out of this.
graycrait
Legend
I string my own rackets if they are 93" to 100" 65/55. If I want to play an OS like the POG 107 I go to 68 or 70 in the mains, 59 in the crosses.
The ZX string is made from zyex. That material has a really high resistance to abrasion. So basically it's going to abrade whatever you pair it with. If you hit the ball on the same spot over and over you are basically creating the perfect scenario to wear away the kevlar which also is highly abrasion resistant, but is not going to win against the zyex.
I think your best chance to make it last longer is to use a non braided kevlar with a coating and/or use the string savers like you mentioned.
I wonder if anyone has used the kevlar + with teflon and determined if the teflon actually works to enhance durability. That might be an option as well.
I think your best chance to make it last longer is to use a non braided kevlar with a coating and/or use the string savers like you mentioned.
I wonder if anyone has used the kevlar + with teflon and determined if the teflon actually works to enhance durability. That might be an option as well.
2nd Serve Ace
Hall of Fame
I don't think the kev+ uses Teflon. My understanding is that it used regular nylon for 15% of the string segments, which certainly won't enhance durability.
I'm not sure that Teflon is really usable in a tennis string.
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Says PTFE in the description. I looked it up just to be sure, and it is Teflon.
2nd Serve Ace
Hall of Fame
Ok you appear to be correct. Not sure how much Teflon is better in a tennis string vs a sauce pane.
Anyway, I've used reg Kev with a ZX and a poly cross, and I've never seen the string2string friction cause fraying on the Kev earlier than simple ball impact on the exposed mains contacted the tennis ball.
My advise is to up the main tension and use the string savers in the center crosses.
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tennisbike
Professional
From 60/45 to 65/50 or 65/45, former is a bigger step. I suspect from most firm to least firm: 1) 65/50 2) 60/50 3) 65/45.
Better is subjective. Like a F1 driver talks to his engineers. Once you define what parameter of what quality is better then you can compare something's characteristics.
Another option is using poly instead of ZX. My current setup is Kevlar+ and Prince Warrior @53#. This cross is the third pull with the same set of Kevlar+ after breaking ZX pulling the third time on Prince Bandit OS. But I am not a hard hitter.
2nd Serve Ace
Hall of Fame
Hi @tennispassionate we need to see some visual evidence, b/c I believe you're interpreting regular ball friction fraying as somehow (wrongly) related to the crosses.
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graycrait
Legend
I've tried this option and I don't like it, goes dead fast. Almost as useless as Ash Kev x Syn Gut, which locks up very quickly. I have an old and dear friend, who loves hitting flat balls with his locked stringbed of Ash Kev x syn gut, whose brother played in major league baseball, batting .393 in 1994, giving a glimpse of the genetics. My friend just had his shoulder reconstruction but most of that is due to career of jumping out of airplanes with a pack and rifle, while his brother had a remarkable but short career in the "bigs" playing baseball.
I think I have tried every permutation possible with Ash Kev x whatever, including Ash Kev x Ash Kev - that is stupid...but... I digress.
I have tried all the "lame" coated twisted aramids. I just don't get those strings like Prince Problend's aramid. All those strings do is provided a "boardy" string bed that allows you to hit flat shots, especially crisp service returns. Ashaway's "uncoated" braided aramid (Kevlar) is a different animal from all the rest of the "pretender" aramid tennis strings. In my humble opinion it only works well with Ashaway Zyex. AND, if I were a UTR 14 player on the verge or making money playing tennis I would be playing with a less than 2 hour set of full poly or gut/poly.
Most of the rest of us could use Ashaway Kevlar x Ashaway Zyex at some tension in some gauge combo that would fulfill all our needs/desires with arm comfort, decent durability and approximation of play that we envision for our ourselves compared to the pros. Why isn't this more obvious to the larger tennis community? Ashaway's marketing team must be looking at something else other than tennis.
Tennis Passionate
Rookie
Sure... you may be right...I already dropped off the racquet with the stringer. But will ask him to take pictures if he hasn’t started with the stringing yet. If not will take pictures next time. This time I am trying 65/45, fully pre stretched...I bought the ZX mini reel and going to order reg kev 16 half reel...
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Also you can spray the strings with some all purpose teflon lube. It will help with the friction and the kevlar absorbs it. FWIW start adding the electrocrosses only when things start getting bad.
And do make sure the stringer is actually stringing as you specify and actually doing a full manual prestretch where only one side of the string is pulled on. No around the corner and no machine prestretch (unless its in addition to the proper manual prestretch.) Nothing against you at all its just that some stringers are super arrogant and think they know EVERYTHING and will say they strung it one way while doing what they think is best.
