Kennex kinetic vs. Prince ports for arm / shoulder
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Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
I demo'd the ProKennex Q+ Tour 300 and 325 last spring. I own a Prince Phantom. Phantom is easily more arm friendly IMO. But the PK's are second in class and certainly arm friendly compared to my old Pure Drives and Blades. If I had to rank current rackets I've demo'd for arm friendly behavior:
1) Prince Phantom
2) PK Q+ Tour 325
3) Prince Textreme Tour 95
Performance wise the phantom has the best spin production and the TT 95 has the best feel and the PK was in between.
I'm loving the phantom right now because it suits my baseline game and is buttery soft. But everyone prioritizes differently. If you were more of a serve and volley/chip and charge type, the the TT Tour or PK Q+ Tour might be more up your alley.
1) Prince Phantom
2) PK Q+ Tour 325
3) Prince Textreme Tour 95
Performance wise the phantom has the best spin production and the TT 95 has the best feel and the PK was in between.
I'm loving the phantom right now because it suits my baseline game and is buttery soft. But everyone prioritizes differently. If you were more of a serve and volley/chip and charge type, the the TT Tour or PK Q+ Tour might be more up your alley.
max
Legend
The PK system really works. I've had personal experience and I knew another who benefitted, and of course, study the reviews for the old PK5G and you'll know what I mean.
I know nothing about Prince frames. I do believe that Volkl's 10 line is exceptionally good for persons with health concerns.
I know nothing about Prince frames. I do believe that Volkl's 10 line is exceptionally good for persons with health concerns.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
I've only tried the EZONE line and they are reasonably arm friendly but not in the same class as Prince and PK. I doubt the Duels are much different.
RoarTT
Semi-Pro
Maybe a little of topic, but i would love if you could compare the Q+ Tour 300 to the Phantom and TT95 in terms of power, spin, control and so on.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
I'd say those three were similar in power in that you definitely need to supply the power and all three frames likely could use a little lead. Phantom was the spinniest (although I'm using Velocity and the other two had NXT I believe when I demo'd them). TT95 was best control and feel, followed by PK, then the Phantom. But none are bad in any of those areas. IN fact I think they all do everything well but nothing super special. They are very much all rounders with good comfort.
I will not lie, for performance nothing beats my PD+ with a fresh bed of RPM Blast. But there is no way my 50 year old arm can hold up to that anymore. So I'm looking for comfort first and if I can get good performance I'm doubly happy. So far the Phantom has been that racquet and I'd take it over the other two as I like the spin game and I like comfort.
mikeler
Moderator
EXO3 Tour is softer than the PK 7G. My current Prince ESP frames are even softer than the EXO3 Tour which I attribute mostly to the double bridge technology (basically a built-in string vibration dampener). The more open pattern I'm sure helps as well.
Tommy Haas
Hall of Fame
The Prince Textreme Tour 95 as comfortable as the heft and 60RA may seem, is a small head and low powered racquet suited for advanced players. If you're not advanced it may end up doing more harm than good from swinging late or overhitting to make up for the lack in power.
loosegroove
Hall of Fame
Prince Phantom and Tour 100 are the comfiest in my opinion. However even with the ported version of the Warrior etc, I found the equivalents from Volkl and PK to be more comfortable. My point being there is no clear brand winner, and it's a little dependent on racket-to-racket.
loosegroove
Hall of Fame
I've had my Tour 100 for a few years now, and there really isn't much in the way of wear on the plastic ports. I assume, and hope, the same would hold true for the Phantom which has no inserts.
Stretchy Man
Professional
The new PK racquets are very stiff. My elbow much preferred the more flexible Prince racquets such as Tour 98, Tour 100, or Textreme Tour 100P.
Tommy Haas
Hall of Fame
I own and use both PK 5G and Prince TT 100P if you have any questions. I've also hit with the Prince TT 95 and have/had Yonex Ai98 and DR98.
Tell us what kind of injury you have or want to prevent and I think I can make some good suggestions.
Tell us what kind of injury you have or want to prevent and I think I can make some good suggestions.
Tommy Haas
Hall of Fame
The PK 5G is the original Kinetic frame and also the softest feeling while each iteration became stiffer. They compensated for the added stiffness by incorporating more tech. The stiffness is probably from the game changing to a baseline power game and to reduce costs to some extent. Less graphite and more resin.
I have been playing with PK 5g 's for the last 15 years. I switched to them from Prince precision and from P.S 6.1 b.c. I started developing tennis elbow.
Fast forward 15y later, last year I stopped playing at all b.c. of the shoulder tendinitis.
I suspect it caused by aggressive mtb riding , playing with my aging 5g frames (5 y.o.), and my aging frame
(49y.o.).
I feel now I rested enough and ready to get back to courts. I'm now looking for the appropriate weapon. (I was ~5.0 b.f. I stopped)
Fast forward 15y later, last year I stopped playing at all b.c. of the shoulder tendinitis.
I suspect it caused by aggressive mtb riding , playing with my aging 5g frames (5 y.o.), and my aging frame
(49y.o.).I feel now I rested enough and ready to get back to courts. I'm now looking for the appropriate weapon. (I was ~5.0 b.f. I stopped)
Hansen
Professional
i personally would recommend the prince phantom. based on my experience with the prince exo tour frames, which should feel similar.
i also tested the pro kennex qtour 16x19 (300), the tec ltd 16x19 and the prince tt 95 and all felt crisper than the ra would suggest and since my arm doesn´t like crisp feeling frames, i personally don´t consider them armfriendly. the yonex dr 98 howeverr felt plush and more comfortable than these 3 frames.
but it is also very important to use the right strings. and since the phantom has such an open string pattern plus ports its difficult to use something other than full poly.
my advice would be to use a comfortable 18x20 racquet (maybe wilson ultra tour, tc 97 18x20) and string it with gut / soft poly or zyex. thats maybe the only setup which combines comfort, spin, power, control and string longevity in a manner suited for an advanced player.
i also tested the pro kennex qtour 16x19 (300), the tec ltd 16x19 and the prince tt 95 and all felt crisper than the ra would suggest and since my arm doesn´t like crisp feeling frames, i personally don´t consider them armfriendly. the yonex dr 98 howeverr felt plush and more comfortable than these 3 frames.
but it is also very important to use the right strings. and since the phantom has such an open string pattern plus ports its difficult to use something other than full poly.
my advice would be to use a comfortable 18x20 racquet (maybe wilson ultra tour, tc 97 18x20) and string it with gut / soft poly or zyex. thats maybe the only setup which combines comfort, spin, power, control and string longevity in a manner suited for an advanced player.
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zalive
Hall of Fame
Kinetic is more pure.
Ports effectively increase head size by allowing more string movement. So it's pretty similar to playing with the OS racquet, right? With all its advantages and all its shortcomings.
While Kinetic doesn't sacrifice any precision for additional comfort. It adds to comfort without taking anything in return.
Ports effectively increase head size by allowing more string movement. So it's pretty similar to playing with the OS racquet, right? With all its advantages and all its shortcomings.
While Kinetic doesn't sacrifice any precision for additional comfort. It adds to comfort without taking anything in return.
Tommy Haas
Hall of Fame
PK is one of the few manufacturers that make MP frames with 16x20 string patterns which many think is the best of both worlds. That I agree with.
zalive
Hall of Fame
Yeah, though for some reason I still didn't buy one of their 16x20's. But I hear you, and I like those 16x20's. Had few, still have one, Prince Response 660 MP, it's a wonderful stick with a bit of lead at 12 o'clock. I also had Pacific XFL ("252" Kafelnikov/Baghdatis mould) custom setup, it was good to me for baseline strokes, but too soft at the net, plus it's bit too closed and layup is not especially spin friendly, so it didn't help generate lots of spin.
Yet, for some reason, Destiny/KI10 mould plus string pattern are wonderful for predictability. They aren't 16x20's, give bit more higher launch angle, but their launch angle is consistent and predictable so in a way they remind me of a more spin friendly 16x20. As platforms I can only warmly recommend both, and when comfort is concerned, KI10 is top notch (especially if customized to bigger specs).
zalive
Hall of Fame
That's true. But I just wanted to stress out that if strings move like on OS, you can't expect racquet to be precise/predictable as a 100'' should be. Its predictability will be more similar to OS too. So while increased strings movement will give more power, spin and comfort, it will give less predictability too. Kinetic doesn't have this effect, Kinetic racquets aside of kinetic beads feature are just classic, they give exactly what you expect from a racquet of their geometry, string pattern and head size.
However, one can string ports racquet tighter, thus negating its loss of predictability, with some cost of comfort.
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Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
I'm not so sure. The Phantom's low RA and power rating means it can get away with multis and gut quite easily and not send things flying. The durability might be an issue but I'm not seeing excess wear on my Head Velocity strings after 8 hours of play. That maybe a slippery multi thing. I'd definitely recommend strings like head velocity, RIP Control and Babolat origin in the racquet.
I personally think the racquet is custom made for a gut poly hybrid. It can easily handle the power of gut and will become a spin monster with a soft poly in the crosses.
Admittedly I'm early days with the racquet but haven't felt any concern about putting a multi into it yet. Results will vary and string breakers will likely need a poly for durability but string breakers usually need poly no matter the frame.
SJSA
Professional
Textreme racquets including Phantom have more stability and control than EXO3 due to the carbon material on the throats.
However any of them can't beat EXO3 Tour for comfort.
That's why I keep my Tour 16x18s for my TE and sold my Phantom.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Really I can't imagine a more comfortable racquet than the phantom. Anything plusher would be a pillow.
Mirdad
Semi-Pro
On my Phantom I use a full bed of Wilson NXT Power 17g strung at #53. The trick to keeping the strings healthy is to install a few Babalot string savers, strategically placed on every other main string on the area of the sweet spot. Since the string savers tighten up the tension a bit, I purposely strung the racquet on the loose side and with a powerful multi since the racquet is low powered. I have found that I only need to add 2 to 4 grams of lead to the upper hoop and presto......you have a very stable, solid hitting racquet that emit heavy topspin and deep penetrating shots. If you want to have even a higher SW that allows a more tilt towards being head light (around 8 to 9 pts) just add about 5 to 7 grams of lead in the lower grip. This set up is paying off like gangbusters for me. So far I have played about 5 hours on the frame and show little to no wear at all on the strings. No more poly for this arm!
Steve Huff
G.O.A.T.
I used different iterations of the 5g since it came out. It's great for the elbow. But you said you had a "shoulder" problem. I've always gone by the saying that "heavy is good for the elbow, light is good for the shoulder". So just because some of these rackets are "arm" friendly doesn't mean they are "shoulder" friendly. As much as you may hate admitting it, now may be the time to switch to a "tweener" racket. All manufacturers make them. Try some 10oz frames, see which feel best. Volkls are great, but you may not like the grip shape. So, my advice is to go light, try a nonpolyester string, and weight it up as your arm gets better.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Quite a statement given the lack of quality empiric evidence.
As far as I know, no racquet company has designed a head to head trial comparing technologies in TE sufferers.
As an n=1 case, I can say that my arm felt best after swinging the Prince phantom over the PK Q+ Tour, but both were arm friendly compared to other racquets I've bought or demo'd.
crazyups
Professional
That's comparing apples to oranges. Phantom at 56 RA is alot softer than q+tour at 63.
crazyups
Professional
I bet the redondo is more comfortable than the phantom but only a guess since I haven't hit either.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
BUt isn't that what the OP is asking? How does the Phantom compare to the PK Kinetic rackets. The phantom is the only current Prince racquet with O-Port technology. And yes it may be the flex that is arm friendly and the O-Ports have nothing to do with comfort, but its pretty hard to separate the two since they are both part of the only O-port model Prince currently sells in North America.
So its two dogmatic to just say the PK's are better for you. You would need a head to head test with multiple samples and hopefully somewhat blinded analysis (hard to mask O-Ports though). Never going to happen so you end up relying on the lowest form of empiric evidence: the anecdote.
crazyups
Professional
The testing would have to be done over a long period of time, at least a year of active playing to see if any part of the body is affected possibly by overcompensating for the lighter weight and lower RA of the phantom or vice versa.
EXO3 Tour 52RA
I played PK 5G, Ki5, and 7G for about 3-4 years and then with Prince EXO3 Tour for about a year. I was searching for the most comfortable frame because of my TE.
EXO3 Tour wins.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Sadly I wasn't aware of these Prince racquets being under the spell of the marketing wizardry of Babolat and Wilson. If I knew then what I know now, I'd have been all over racquets like that. But I was still invincible at that age.
The Prince Phantom seems to just be an EXO3 Tour with Textreme in the end. Very similar all round specs.
mikeler
Moderator
I still contend although my current ESPs are technically stiffer that they feel softer than the Exo3 Tours which are super comfy. These are the only rackets I've ever been able to tolerate full poly in with no arm issues.
PBODY99
Legend
Try the Textreme Premier 105
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/Prince_Textreme_Premier_105_Racquets/descpageRCPRINCE-P105.html
It plays softer than the RDC numbers.
As Mikeler already knows, those ESP racquets did not jive with me and aggrvated my TE.
To each his own....
mikeler
Moderator
Yep, every player needs to find what works for them.
PBODY99
Legend
@Dartagnan64
Prince has other port frames.
The Textreme Premier 105 & 120 have ports.
Granted they are not"players" spec, but they are more comfortable than the RDC numbers would indicate.
I would DEMO the 105. I own 2 of the Europe released 110s which are the current version of my long time frames in my signature.
Prince has other port frames.
The Textreme Premier 105 & 120 have ports.
Granted they are not"players" spec, but they are more comfortable than the RDC numbers would indicate.
I would DEMO the 105. I own 2 of the Europe released 110s which are the current version of my long time frames in my signature.
127 mph
Rookie
The science of Kinetic is proven, even if a Prince may feel softer ( and that is subjective) that does not ensure it is better for you. Take a mis hit with one of each companies racket ( this is about the worst thing for people with sensative joints) the science and movable mass of the PK will provide more protection than the Prince. My wife has Prince and I would say they are far from uncomfortable. I just find my 7g to be the only frame to allow me to be able to play a whole tournament. To the original poster you will be well served with either. But I would recommend the PK as a better racket with protection from all types of contacts both good and bad. Cheers
tennis1111
Semi-Pro
I played with EXO3 tour 100 for 2 Years then with Tour 100 , both 16x18 and with Phantom for one month and now with PK Q+5 PRO and I have very sensitive arm.
I found Tour 100 16x18 great racket, a bit better then EXO3. It is also better then Phantom for groundsrtokes, it is more stable and it has a bit more power. Phantom is better for serves and volleys and is very string sensitive.
I had problem with Phantom against Big servers. When I step in for return it started wobbling from tip to the handle. Very strange.
Now I play with PK q+5 pro and I thin due to kinetic technology it is a bit more arm friendly then Prince, but Prince is also very kind for your arm.
PK has way better control, little bit less spin but still verry spinny (nothing beat Exo in spin department). I'm quite satisfied with PK for now.
I found Tour 100 16x18 great racket, a bit better then EXO3. It is also better then Phantom for groundsrtokes, it is more stable and it has a bit more power. Phantom is better for serves and volleys and is very string sensitive.
I had problem with Phantom against Big servers. When I step in for return it started wobbling from tip to the handle. Very strange.
Now I play with PK q+5 pro and I thin due to kinetic technology it is a bit more arm friendly then Prince, but Prince is also very kind for your arm.
PK has way better control, little bit less spin but still verry spinny (nothing beat Exo in spin department). I'm quite satisfied with PK for now.
As I wrote, I have been playing pk5g for over 15 years. So, I know its good. I wonder how Ki Q+Tour Pro (325) is compared to your PK Q+5 PRO ? Did you try these? tours are 98 and listed as flexier frames
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Crocodile
G.O.A.T.
While softness with feel is a sensation we could all relate to in terms of arm comfort I'm not completely satisfied that this would relate to arm performance in terms of the work factor. For example with the Prince being measured as a 56 RA I would think there would be quite a bit of energy lost due to its flexibility. What Volkl and PK do is offer dampening technology that allows you to access the benefits of a stiffer frame without harshness. So what I'm thinking is that with the stiffer frame your serves will go harder without you having to work as hard with the 56 ra frame. Something to weigh up perhaps. Maybe test the Prince up
Against the V1 Pro and Q 5.
Against the V1 Pro and Q 5.
tennis1111
Semi-Pro
No, I didn't play wit 325.
I did play with PK q5 315 and new version of it is one step ahead of it.
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