Kick Serve: Too high of a contact point = no spin?

[Deleted member 25923]

So, i've been thinking. Will Hamilton mentions that on a kick serve, you make contact at a lower point (or something to that effect), and this makes sense because you need to go low to high.

On a groundstroke, if you hit it at a higher contact point, the topspin can be harder to generate, thus why many people struggle with the high ball. It's easier to crush those flat, right? Now a ball at waist height is prime for topspin. You can get a good low to high motion, and still feel comfortable.


Let's connect back to the kick serve. If we hit it at too high of a contact point, it will end up flat, no? (Or at least, flatter than it should be)

What i'm getting at is, could my contact point on my kick serve be preventing me from getting a good topspin trajectory and kick on this serve?


P.S. Don't hesitate to let me know if i'm crazy and this is just some incoherent rambling.

 

[tenzinrocks]

The possibility is high that it can. Well i'm not saying it's necessarily flat if you contact it higher since it is above your head and for flat shots, it's best to have it in front of you. What i'm saying is, if your doing a topspin serve and the ball is very high, then it will still have spin but it might not go in. There's a high possibility it's the height of your contact point or the speed of your racquet head. You can try going aggressive by tossing it in but follow it with your body and stay under it for the best result.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

...

P.S. Don't hesitate to let me know if i'm crazy and this is just some incoherent rambling.

Nope, your ramblings are very coherent. For a kick serve, you've got to resist the temptation to hit the ball too early -- let the ball drop for a split-second longer. At contact, the arm is almost fully extended for the kick serve, but the racket is not.

 

[kelz]

Nope, your ramblings are very coherent. For a kick serve, you've got to resist the temptation to hit the ball too early -- let the ball drop for a split-second longer. At contact, the arm is almost fully extended for the kick serve, but the racket is not.

This is to enable more 'upward' motion being imparted on the ball - translated into more spin.

 

[fuzz nation]

Yep, you're right on the money. If you hit the ball at the top of your effective reach on a serve, the racquet meets the ball at the top of its arc where it can only go relatively flat through the ball or across it on a horizontal plane for some sidespin. The lower contact point creates enough room for the racquet to continue upward either vertically or diagonally through contact to generate spin for that kicker.

 

[Deleted member 25923]

Nope, your ramblings are very coherent. For a kick serve, you've got to resist the temptation to hit the ball too early -- let the ball drop for a split-second longer. At contact, the arm is almost fully extended for the kick serve, but the racket is not.

Thank god, i'm not crazy


I think next time I'm serving, i'm gonna establish that contact point beforehand, and focus on that.

 

[LeeD]

Flat first serves, you hit at the highest part of your reach.
Topspin serves, usually at least 7" lower.
Kick serves, where you're trying to pronounce the arc and make the ball jump, either twisted, topped, or slightly sliced, need to be hit another 3-5 inches LOWER than the topspin serve.
Obviously, first flat serve has the flattest arc.
Topspin serves are next.
True high kicking twist or tops have the most arc, at hit with maximum racket speed upwards, relying on the high arc and forward spin to make the ball jump.
So.... first serves the racket is almost upright.
Slice serves the racket can be close to upright.
But top and kick serves, the racket is much more sideways, closer to a groundstroke.

 

[ronalditop]

arent kick serves and spin serves the same thing?

 

[LeeD]

NOPE !!
OK, maybe it is at a 3.0 level.
But higher, you mostly hit flat first serves with a tiny bit of topspin...yes really.
Then the normal higher level second serve is a topspin, either pure top or slightly sliced.
Then for pronounced higher bounce, and for second serve variety, you throw in some kicker where your racket head is moving upwards at contact, imparting MORE topspin at a higher trajectory than your regular topspin second serve to get MORE higher hop to the ball, and giving you the option of the twist, top, or sliced high kicker in ADDITION to your normal second serve topspin.
All of the second serves, you have to be able to direct it to the backhand (normally 60odd %, forehand, maybe 30odd%, then a few into the body just for fun and games).
That should comprise a normal serve repetoire for a mens 4.5 player who is hoping to improve.