Let's Cool the Jets on the Nadal=GOAT Plane

TTMR

Hall of Fame
It's absolutely laughable how the online tennis world made a complete 180 degree transformation after the US Open, from constantly undercutting and diminishing Nadal's achievements, to immediately proclaiming him the greatest ever.

Let's do something I like to call "analysis" rather than lap up the ceaseless exaltations of prisoner-of-the-present John McEnroe and the testosterone-heavy vocal excretions of female gym teacher qua overbearing colour commentator Mary Carillo.

To be the "greatest of all time" means one must be the "greatest" of "every time", not just one's own time. Nadal is a product of modern fitness, modern training, modern medicine, state-of-the-art racquet and string technology, personally slowed down courts, fluffed up balls and lax enforcement of tennis rules and regulations. Take one of those things away from Nadal's development, and he doesn't even make the ATP Tour.

Nadal offers nothing unique to the world of tennis. He's the prototype or model for the assembly line tennis player. Remove the conditions designed and tailored to his benefit, and he would be malfunctional. But these conditions have only been in place from 2005 or so to the present, while tennis as an international sport has been played since the late 19th century!

Having been born into any other period in men's tennis history, Nadal would not have even been able to make clean contact with the ball. Because he would have to use a minuscule-headed wood racquet. He wouldn't even know how to hold that kind of a racquet properly. His tiny hands wouldn't have been able to get all the way around a 5'' grip. Can you imagine him flailing at a low-bouncing, fuzz-free lightweight tennis ball?

For most of tennis history, Nadal would have suffered heat stroke as he would have had to play in long sleeves, a vest and pants, and play interminable sets without tiebreakers.

Nadal would have been diqualified after just a few games per match for violating the rules on time between serves and on changeovers.

Nadal would have been rendered helpless as Rosewall's 80 MPH slices skidded by him on a lightning fast surface. See Darcis at Wimbledon and Federer at WTF for further evidence.

And finally, Nadal would have already undergone knee replacement surgery with the much heavier schedule, longer year and unavailability of inflammation-relieving injections.

No, Nadal cannot be considered the greatest of all time given that the game was essentially altered so he could win it, only possible with modern technology and circumstances. The fact that people are already comparing him with Pete Sampras only shows how badly the empty-headed sheep/fans have been suckered and betrayed by the tennis establishment. Nadal should not be despised. He is merely the clown in P.T. Barnum's modern tennis circus.

Terminate post.
 

RF20Lennon

Legend
The only people proclaiming Nadal as GOATS are mainly Fed haters and Nadal fans and in total they probably make up about 35% of tennis fans.
 
T

TennisandMusic

Guest
TTMR is so right, Nadal would have been kicked out for being so slow back in the days of REAL tennis. Like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtwSnzKk-XA

The only people proclaiming Nadal as GOATS are mainly Fed haters and Nadal fans and in total they probably make up about 35% of tennis fans.

Incorrect. Nadal fans don't hate Federer. Frankly, they just don't care about Federer. It's the opposite that is true. People who think Nadal is the best player to ever play do so out of reason and of course, their own opinion.
 
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sureshs

Bionic Poster
Fed fans are getting desperate as Nadal thrashes Fed over and over again and has already established himself as the greatest player ever, winning on every surface twice, and even transcending the sport by winning the Olympic gold medal alongside such greats as Phelps.

Perhaps Nadal should not have been candid by pronouncing that beating Fed was easy and you need to do only one thing. In the past, laughing at Federer was left to Toni, while Rafa played the respectful nephew. But the truth finally came out. That was the last straw that broke the Fed fans.

And detailed analysis also showed how he had intelligently strategized against Djokovic by learning from his defeats to him, thus showing he is the complete brain + brawn package.
 

Crose

Professional
"Nadal can't be the GOAT" threads are almost as annoying as the GOAT threads themselves.
 

Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
Fed fans are getting desperate as Nadal thrashes Fed over and over again and has already established himself as the greatest player ever, winning on every surface twice, and even transcending the sport by winning the Olympic gold medal alongside such greats as Phelps.

Perhaps Nadal should not have been candid by pronouncing that beating Fed was easy and you need to do only one thing. In the past, laughing at Federer was left to Toni, while Rafa played the respectful nephew. But the truth finally came out. That was the last straw that broke the Fed fans.

And detailed analysis also showed how he had intelligently strategized against Djokovic by learning from his defeats to him, thus showing he is the complete brain + brawn package.

It's so much better when you're trying to be witty.
 

eliars

Hall of Fame
TTMR you're slipping. You were so much more affable back when you were trolling. The way people would lap up the bait you threw at them was often a sight to behold. So unless the irony has somehow gotten more refined and is lost on me, it's quite disappointing to see reduced to just another poster.

However with a seemingly straight forward post I'll give you a seemingly straight forward answer:

The human race adapts to its environment, not the other way around.

/End thread
 

Roddick85

Hall of Fame
While i'm not on the whole Nadal is GOAT current bandwagon, I don't agree with any of the OP's point about Nadal. You cannot simply go back in time to void any of his accomplishment. Who know what Nadal would of done with yesterday's tennis/medicine technology, maybe he would of adapated, maybe not. The fact remains, Nadal is a heck of a competitor, he's by far the best player of 2013. Will he maintain that level for the next 3-4 years? I don't think so, given his past injury wise. To me, the GOAT is someone that could dominate his sport on a consistent basis. Even with his great summer, Nadal still hasn't reached the amount of weeks at #1 that both Federer and Sampras have.
 

Morj

Semi-Pro
Nadal is definetely not GOAT yet, so i certainly agree with OP on that. But i do not agree with OP's attempt to undermine Nadal's accomplishments.

Nadal's movement, fighting spirit, and mental toughness are not a product of modern day technology or court conditions. Those are innate qualities that would work in any time period. Nadal's ability to turn defense to offense like no one else in history would also have been effective in any era (see borg). It's not like he needs to be a great serve and volleyer to have won tourneys like Wimbledon in the past. Borg had ok volleys and he was able to serve and volley when he had to at Wimbledon, while still relying on his baselining during return games. Nadal has good enough volleys that if he had to he could serve and volley during service games and still rely on baseline during returns.

Add in Nadals excellent slices and decent drop shots and id say he has what it takes to do well in any era.
 

TTMR

Hall of Fame
I'm sorry, but for a 120 year period--86% of the total time tennis has been played competitively--Nadal would not have even been able to swing the racquet with his technique. If he somehow managed to keep the ball in the court and not shank ball after ball into the stands, he'd be leaving weak short sitters at waist height--cannon fodder for a genuine shotmaker or artiste de le vollei.

Nadal is just a well-maintained body that's been inserted into a pod where the technology and environment do all the work for him. He's like a tennis version of Ke$ha or Katy Perry: babes paid millions to lip sync while autotune and session songwriters/musicians/producers generate the music. He's the face of a manufactured product. Like Mr. Peanut or the Maytag Repairman.
 

Readers

Professional
TTMR, you are just a complete brain dead idiot posting non sense because you inner rage is about to explode.

Why don't you just bang your head against wall instead of polluting a public message board?

BTW I am not saying Nadal is or is not GOAT, just you are full of BS.
 
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BHud

Hall of Fame
Fed fans are getting desperate as Nadal thrashes Fed over and over again and has already established himself as the greatest player ever, winning on every surface twice, and even transcending the sport by winning the Olympic gold medal alongside such greats as Phelps.

ROFL, ROFL, ROFL...LMFAO. Nadal = Phelps even though Phelps has 18 gold medals (22 overall) and Nads only has 1!?!?!? You are truly a classic my man...
 

ledwix

Hall of Fame
Federer is a greater Olympian than Nadal haha, so it's funny to use Olympics as a "hole" in his career.

But really, Nadal offers plenty of unique stuff. Strength on a level we have not seen in tennis, and topspin, so that any shot can be hit anywhere.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
ROFL, ROFL, ROFL...LMFAO. Nadal = Phelps even though Phelps has 18 gold medals (22 overall) and Nads only has 1!?!?!? You are truly a classic my man...

That is correct because we all know that tennis awarded multiple medals - one for ad court, one for duece court, one for forehand, one for backhand etc.

What is truly classic is that Fed has ZERO Olympics singles golds.
 

TTMR

Hall of Fame
TTMR, you are just a complete brain dead idiot posting non sense because you inner rage is about to explode.

Why don't you just bang your head against wall instead of polluting a public message board?

BTW I am not saying Nadal is or is not GOAT, just you are full of BS.

The above is what we philosophers call a "logical fallacy". In particular, yours is what is referred to as an "ad hominem", Latin for "at the man". In other words, being too lazy and dismissive to form your own counter-argument, you simply choose to attack the person making the original argument, to deride his intelligence and proceed to resort to childish name-calling.

While I am not an expert in the evolution of racquet and string technology, vaunted contributors like BreakPoint are, and have repeatedly demonstrated that Nadal would not have been able to swing a wood, aluminum or early graphite racquet with natural gut using his distinctive technique. And of course, without that technique, he's just another clay court journeyman.

Ergo, Nadal cannot be the "greatest of all time". His highest hope is to be the greatest of "this time".
 

Readers

Professional
The above is what we philosophers call a "logical fallacy". In particular, yours is what is referred to as an "ad hominem", Latin for "at the man". In other words, being too lazy and dismissive to form your own counter-argument, you simply choose to attack the person making the original argument, to deride his intelligence and proceed to resort to childish name-calling.

While I am not an expert in the evolution of racquet and string technology, vaunted contributors like BreakPoint are, and have repeatedly demonstrated that Nadal would not have been able to swing a wood, aluminum or early graphite racquet with natural gut using his distinctive technique. And of course, without that technique, he's just another clay court journeyman.

Ergo, Nadal cannot be the "greatest of all time". His highest hope is to be the greatest of "this time".

I like how you actually understand logical fallacy, how about apply it to your own post? :lol::lol::lol:
 

firepanda

Professional
Nadal needs slams to be GOAT. I don't think anyone has said otherwise. They've maybe been saying that it's conceivable he could be GOAT, since it's possible he'll break Federer's 17.
 
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