Todd Woodbridge: "Federer isn't the GOAT: but he's the best all-court player"
- Thread starter terribleIVAN
- Start date
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
D
Deleted member 770948
Guest
The opposite actually....
US Open H2H:
Nadal leads Djokovic 2-1
Nadal leads Thiem 1-0
Nadal leads Medvedev 1-0
And we just saw Thiem-Zverev playing an extremely low-level US Open Final.
Nadal is a 4-time US Open champ, and more to come in your face!
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
Both Thiem and Medvedev put it in Rafa's face 6 weeks ago; poor Rafa couldn't serve for the match without starting to tremble.
That was a terrible loss vs Danii.
In order to win a hard court slam, Rafa needs now the luck of the draw.
RaulRamirez
Legend
I'm sure Woodbridge - and a bunch of other current and former pros - would be great to talk to, and I would learn some tennis tips, or what it felt like to play on the biggest stages, etc. I don't look to them for punditry - regardless of who their statements seem to support. Every argument has already been discussed and debated ad nauseum.
D
Deleted member 771911
Guest
I agree with Todd. Can't be the GOAT with those head to heads.
terribleIVAN
Hall of Fame
Nope.
No misquote.
Roger Federer has a negative record against Rafael Nadal, Novak Djokovic - World Today News
Double legend Todd Woodbridge shared his thoughts on the GOAT race between Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal. While praising the Swiss star, Woodbridge suggested he has a negative record against closest rivals. Mentioning Rafael Nadal’s staggering 13 Roland Garros crowns, the Aussie...
www.world-today-news.com
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
hes basically had some good luck at the US and bad luck at W and AO. He’s not 4x better at the US than AO and he’s not 2x better at the US than W
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Nope.
No misquote.
Roger Federer has a negative record against Rafael Nadal, Novak Djokovic - World Today News
Double legend Todd Woodbridge shared his thoughts on the GOAT race between Roger Federer, Novak Djokovic and Rafael Nadal. While praising the Swiss star, Woodbridge suggested he has a negative record against closest rivals. Mentioning Rafael Nadal’s staggering 13 Roland Garros crowns, the Aussie...www.world-today-news.com
And that's fine too. Just one man's opinion after all.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Not sure he's had bad luck at Wimbledon. I mean, when you lose to 6 players ranked below 100 right in the middle of your prime basically, that's more than just bad luck.
RiverRat
Professional
Are you kidding us with this? I'll quote: "The Match Charting Project (MCP) dataset has at least 10 tour-level matches for 80 different men." 10 matches? That hardly represents the type of difficulty with the overhead Djokovic had for most of his career. He's worked hard to make his overhead passable. How do we know which 10 matches? It sounds like a total cherry-pick. Pluck 10 matches wherever your bias takes you. I'll bet Djokovic would acknowledge his difficulty with the overhead and the overhead as his worse shot.I think it's kind of amazing how some things posted on TTW take on a new life and get repeated as fact when they are kind of not based on any evidence. Lol. Djokovic isn't even among the worst overheads in tennis over his career but it get repeated so often on here. Maybe because he is so good, his slight flaws are highlighted. This is fact though and no subjectivty in sight.
Measuring the Best Smashes in Tennis - Heavy Topspin
Italian translation at settesei.it: part 1, part 2 How can we identify the best shots in tennis? At first glance, it seems like a simple problem. Thanks to the shot-by-shot data collected for over 3,500 matches by the Match Charting Project, we can look at every instance of the shot in question...www.tennisabstract.com
mike danny
Bionic Poster
So, wait.....Fed lost his argument for GOAThood because of losing to Djokovic at 34 and after? Kinda ridiculous, don't you think?
And what about what he actually managed to achieve in 2017-early 2018? If anything, this period helped him stay in the running.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
When one of them is a generation older than the other 2, the H2H doesn't hold as much value.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
no, he said two two! men who beat him...and it doesn't matter here before 34 or after
alexio
G.O.A.T.
yes, correct, well done
BackhandDTL
Hall of Fame
Feddy boy is a pigeon of Djokodal in slams.
Djokovic is a pigeon of Nadal in slams too, but he atleast takes Fed to the CLEANERS, so he gets a pass.
10-6, and 10-4.
Djokovic is a pigeon of Nadal in slams too, but he atleast takes Fed to the CLEANERS, so he gets a pass.
10-6, and 10-4.
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
BackhandDTL
Hall of Fame
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
same discussions..
federers not the goat because of his h2h with rafa and djoko
rafas not the goat because he cant win on fast courts
djokos not the goat because he doesnt have the GS title record..
the only way theres going to be an undisputed goat player is if djokovic
wins the most GS titles because the other 2 scenerios arent going to happen...
federers not the goat because of his h2h with rafa and djoko
rafas not the goat because he cant win on fast courts
djokos not the goat because he doesnt have the GS title record..
the only way theres going to be an undisputed goat player is if djokovic
wins the most GS titles because the other 2 scenerios arent going to happen...
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
And Sampras is below Wawrinka, because he has no RG title.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
disagree with you here.. coz djo is not a pigeon of nadal, i.e. yea they own each other at their pet/kingdom slams, so they nullify themselves and it doesn't count so much, but what counts more is their matches on neutral territory, so to speak, and the record is 3-3 there
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Federev
Legend
Federev
Legend
I love it.
Fed reaching Finals at nearly 38 and holding match points against the world number 1 six years his junior/ taking it to 5 sets =
worse than the several times Peter got eliminated before the final of a slam.
and = advice to Fed: next time be in GOOD form.
LOL.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Djoker hasn't won on very many fast courts either tbh. Neither has Federer for that matter, but Djokovic would probably have the nicest looking resume if he had the slam record.
Right.
All of his 103 single titles, YE #, weeks #1, records, awards and everything that he's achieved should be confiscated.
D
Deleted member 770948
Guest
You are getting confused with best-of-3-sets, they have nothing to do with slams.
In fact you are even comparing the ATP World Tour Finals (an event Nadal never won) to the US Open (Nadal has won 4, including 2 of the last 3 he's played and he retired from 2018 semi).
Thiem needs the luck of the draw, and needs Djokovic to be disqualified.
Not only that, he should pay back every dollars that he earns from playing tennis.
no.
junior74
Talk Tennis Guru
You're goddamn right
BackhandDTL
Hall of Fame
Rosol and Kyrgios goated. 2015 he was dogsh!t everywhere
2013 and 2017 were bad losses but everything else was either out of his control or it was expected.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
It says at least 10. If you click on the match charting project at the top, it shows you the list of players and how many matches they used for Djokovic which is 367. The chart would have to be updated though since it looks like they are still adding matches to the dataset with 2018, 2019 and 2020 in there. Point is, his overhead is not among the best but the weakness of it is grossly exaggerated. Tsonga with the best one earns one extra point every 600 points which shows how unimportant the overhead shot is in the grand scheme of things anyway, because you're not even hitting that many of them. Lendl and Edberg both had worse overheads than Djokovic but I never heard that talked about on here.
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D
Deleted member 748597
Guest
Federer has more money than Nadal and Djokovic. Deal with it.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
RiverRat
Professional
Nice post. Sorry for being snarky and not having read all of the details. It is obvious his overhead has improved.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Never really thought of it before, but Tsonga at #1 does not surprise me at all.I think it's kind of amazing how some things posted on TTW take on a new life and get repeated as fact when they are kind of not based on any evidence. Lol. Djokovic isn't even among the worst overheads in tennis over his career but it get repeated so often on here. Maybe because he is so good, his slight flaws are highlighted. This is fact though and no subjectivty in sight.
Measuring the Best Smashes in Tennis - Heavy Topspin
Italian translation at settesei.it: part 1, part 2 How can we identify the best shots in tennis? At first glance, it seems like a simple problem. Thanks to the shot-by-shot data collected for over 3,500 matches by the Match Charting Project, we can look at every instance of the shot in question...www.tennisabstract.com
mike danny
Bionic Poster
The creators of this forum wouldn't make a living if it were so simple.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
The USO was so much faster back when Fed was winning it and honestly so was Wimb in 2003-2004.
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
He could have won W06 or 07 or 11 or 18 or AO12/14/17/19 if he had a draw like he had in W10 or US17 or US19
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RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
And even that was slow compared to Wimbledon pre 2002
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