The opposite actually....Not.
Unless Novak, Thiem and Medvedev are already out.
The opposite actually....
US Open H2H:
Nadal leads Djokovic 2-1
Nadal leads Thiem 1-0
Nadal leads Medvedev 1-0
And we just saw Thiem-Zverev playing an extremely low-level US Open Final.
Nadal is a 4-time US Open champ, and more to come in your face!
And tennisworld is a garbage source anyway. . And if he was misquoted for clickbait purposes then tennisworld is just as useless as I thought.
Both Thiem and Medvedev put it in Rafa's face 6 weeks ago; poor Rafa couldn't serve for the match without starting to tremble.
That was a terrible loss vs Danii.
In order to win a hard court slam, Rafa needs now the luck of the draw.
hes basically had some good luck at the US and bad luck at W and AO. He’s not 4x better at the US than AO and he’s not 2x better at the US than W
Trophies, ranking, streaks/records and the intangible are the only criteria in evaluating the player's placement in all-time-great.
Achievement on and of the court is all that matters. That's why Federer is the GOAT.
Are you kidding us with this? I'll quote: "The Match Charting Project (MCP) dataset has at least 10 tour-level matches for 80 different men." 10 matches? That hardly represents the type of difficulty with the overhead Djokovic had for most of his career. He's worked hard to make his overhead passable. How do we know which 10 matches? It sounds like a total cherry-pick. Pluck 10 matches wherever your bias takes you. I'll bet Djokovic would acknowledge his difficulty with the overhead and the overhead as his worse shot.I think it's kind of amazing how some things posted on TTW take on a new life and get repeated as fact when they are kind of not based on any evidence. Lol. Djokovic isn't even among the worst overheads in tennis over his career but it get repeated so often on here. Maybe because he is so good, his slight flaws are highlighted. This is fact though and no subjectivty in sight.
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So, wait.....Fed lost his argument for GOAThood because of losing to Djokovic at 34 and after? Kinda ridiculous, don't you think?I think ever since 2015, Federer lost his claim to outright GOAThood.
He has two men who beat him in most important matches, out did most of his records and probably going to leave him only with few insignificant records intact
There's no way he is the GOAT now. Earlier I would have called him first among three equals , Now he is just a part of equally talented and similarly accomplished Trio.
He will be fortunate if it all remains like that.
Else he will be overtaken most likely by both.
When one of them is a generation older than the other 2, the H2H doesn't hold as much value.I agree with Todd. Can't be the GOAT with those head to heads.
no, he said two two! men who beat him...and it doesn't matter here before 34 or afterSo, wait.....Fed lost his argument for GOAThood because of losing to Djokovic at 34 and after? Kinda ridiculous, don't you think?
yes, correct, well doneIsn't Federer 11-24 against his two rivals at slams?
Feddy boy is a pigeon of Djokodal in slams.
Djokovic is a pigeon of Nadal in slams too, but he atleast takes Fed to the CLEANERS, so he gets a pass.
10-6, and 10-4.
same discussions..
federers not the goat because of his h2h with rafa and djoko
rafas not the goat because he cant win on fast courts
djokos not the goat because he doesnt have the GS title record..
the only way theres going to be an undisputed goat player is if djokovic
wins the most GS titles because the other 2 scenerios arent going to happen...
disagree with you here.. coz djo is not a pigeon of nadal, i.e. yea they own each other at their pet/kingdom slams, so they nullify themselves and it doesn't count so much, but what counts more is their matches on neutral territory, so to speak, and the record is 3-3 thereFeddy boy is a pigeon of Djokodal in slams.
Djokovic is a pigeon of Nadal in slams too, but he atleast takes Fed to the CLEANERS, so he gets a pass.
10-6, and 10-4.
You are doing a very good impression here.You have to be in good form to reach a final. Fed got his CLOCK cleaned in 4 of them at Wimbledon.
Pete was unbeatable in good form 7/7 in W finals and 7/8 in his prime stretch. And yeah he lost to a GOATing Krajicek, but Fed himself wouldn’t get a SNIFF of that match. Only ‘99 Sampras scalps that Krajicek
I love it.You have to be in good form to reach a final. Fed got his CLOCK cleaned in 4 of them at Wimbledon.
Pete was unbeatable in good form 7/7 in W finals and 7/8 in his prime stretch. And yeah he lost to a GOATing Krajicek, but Fed himself wouldn’t get a SNIFF of that match. Only ‘99 Sampras scalps that Krajicek
same discussions..
federers not the goat because of his h2h with rafa and djoko
rafas not the goat because he cant win on fast courts
djokos not the goat because he doesnt have the GS title record..
the only way theres going to be an undisputed goat player is if djokovic
wins the most GS titles because the other 2 scenerios arent going to happen...
Isn't Federer 11-24 against his two rivals at slams?
You are getting confused with best-of-3-sets, they have nothing to do with slams.Both Thiem and Medvedev put it in Rafa's face 6 weeks ago; poor Rafa couldn't serve for the match without starting to tremble.
That was a terrible loss vs Danii.
In order to win a hard court slam, Rafa needs now the luck of the draw.
Right.
All of his 103 single titles, YE #, weeks #1, records, awards and everything that he's achieved should be confiscated.
So that's a yes?
And Sampras is below Wawrinka, because he has no RG title.
Not only that, he should pay back every dollars that he earns from playing tennis.
Rosol and Kyrgios goated. 2015 he was dogsh!t everywhereAchievements off the court don't mean a row of beans TMF.
Are you kidding us with this? I'll quote: "The Match Charting Project (MCP) dataset has at least 10 tour-level matches for 80 different men." 10 matches? That hardly represents the type of difficulty with the overhead Djokovic had for most of his career. He's worked hard to make his overhead passable. How do we know which 10 matches? It sounds like a total cherry-pick. Pluck 10 matches wherever your bias takes you. I'll bet Djokovic would acknowledge his difficulty with the overhead and the overhead as his worse shot.
Trophies, ranking, streaks/records and the intangible are the only criteria in evaluating the player's placement in all-time-great.
Achievement on and of the court is all that matters. That's why Federer is the GOAT.
Nice post. Sorry for being snarky and not having read all of the details. It is obvious his overhead has improved.It says at least 10. If you click on the match charting project at the top, it shows you the list of players and how many matches they used for Djokovic which is 367. The chart would have to be updated though since it looks like they are still adding matches to the dataset with 2018, 2019 and 2020 in there. Point is, his overhead is not among the best but the weakness of it is grossly exaggerated. Tsonga with the best one earns one extra point every 600 points which shows how unimportant the overhead shot is in the grand scheme of things anyway, because you're not even hitting that many of them. Lendl and Edberg both had worse overheads than Djokovic but I never heard that talked about on here.
Never really thought of it before, but Tsonga at #1 does not surprise me at all.I think it's kind of amazing how some things posted on TTW take on a new life and get repeated as fact when they are kind of not based on any evidence. Lol. Djokovic isn't even among the worst overheads in tennis over his career but it get repeated so often on here. Maybe because he is so good, his slight flaws are highlighted. This is fact though and no subjectivty in sight.
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The creators of this forum wouldn't make a living if it were so simple.This whole debate is really so pointless in the end. Roger is awesome. So is Djokovic. And also Rafa.
The USO was so much faster back when Fed was winning it and honestly so was Wimb in 2003-2004.Djoker hasn't won on very many fast courts either tbh. Neither has Federer for that matter, but Djokovic would probably have the nicest looking resume if he had the slam record.
Not sure he's had bad luck at Wimbledon. I mean, when you lose to 6 players ranked below 100 right in the middle of your prime basically, that's more than just bad luck.
The USO was so much faster back when Fed was winning it and honestly so was Wimb in 2003-2004.