Todd Woodbridge: "Federer isn't the GOAT: but he's the best all-court player"

RelentlessAttack

Hall of Fame
Yeah makes sense, but it should be said that USO 17 and 19 draws for Nadal were ridiculously easy in the extreme. That's like me saying Fed would've won W 19 if he played injured Cilic instead of Djokovic. Can't constantly expect that type of good luck.

Well I agree, but it was luck. That’s my point, he’s not 4x better at the US than Aussie, he just had good luck at the US and relatively worse luck at the AO and W. If you simulated his life 10000x I bet he winds up with a similar number of titles at all 3 on average
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Steffi Graf GOAT?

:cool:
Anyone who won the Grand Slam is a GOAT, which means Federer, the tin god of another member who posts in cave-speak,--is not a GOAT, nor will he ever reach that level.

Bolded... Lol at some Fed fans... calling him goat for a decade now transferred to there is no such thing as goat... Just one, big, fat loooool.... :-D

Exactly. When it was all about majors count, the worst of Federer's fans on this board posted crap such as, "He got most slams, so he am GOAT, capiche? Nadal am not GOAT--only sexi-Roger!" and a host of other unintelligible postings. Now that Nadal matched him, ans yes, he will pass Federer, the hypocritical goal posts are moved to scream "no GOAT!". If Federer cannot be the GOAT, no one else can. Sandbox "reasoning".
 

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Yeah, it's really weird. If he wanted to make a case for Federer he doesn't even need to start at RG. Just looking at the slams Federer "could've" won would be enough. Start with AO 2005 probably. Throw in AO or USO 2009. Complete it with Wimbledon 2019. That's at least 3-4 more slams that most people think Federer choked away.

Don't agree he choked AO 2005 (Safin was too good), but agree with your general point.
 
Anyone who won the Grand Slam is a GOAT, which means Federer, the tin god of another member who posts in cave-speak,--is not a GOAT, nor will he ever reach that level.

That doesn't make sense.

Firstly, who determined the bolded and secondly, as GOAT stands for "the greatest of all time", there can only be one such person, in which case it means that the definition that you gave is nonsensical.

:cool:
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Extremely. Nadal has overperformed so much he actually caught ol' Rog and has 20 slams lol, so their arguments aren't what they used to be anymore :p Im just here to watch the world burn.

tenor.gif

Any Fedfan with any intelligence saw this coming a long time ago and stopped clinging to "20" as their argument.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
That doesn't make sense.

Firstly, who determined the bolded and secondly, as GOAT stands for "the greatest of all time", there can only be one such person, in which case it means that the definition that you gave is nonsensical.

:cool:

Illogical. To anyone actually knowing tennis history, players like Laver were crowned a GOAT player because he won that largely unattainable zenith of tennis (for the majority of players), the Grand Slam (and what that has always meant to the sport). The same with Graf; in 1988, the second she won that year's USO, she was called one of the GOAT players. Sorry but majors count, trivia, what some player does on his off-days does not make a GOAT player.
 
Illogical. To anyone actually knowing tennis history, players like Laver were crowned a GOAT player because he won that largely unattainable zenith of tennis (for the majority of players), the Grand Slam (and what that has always meant to the sport). The same with Graf; in 1988, the second she won that year's USO, she was called one of the GOAT players. Sorry but majors count, trivia, what some player does on his off-days does not make a GOAT player.

Actually, in Laver times the Grand Slam was a distinction that had a lot less emphasis than it receives nowadays (albeit a high distinction, for sure). It wasn't "unattainable" as you put it, and the pro Majors were a separate (and some would say more important) recognition. Laver's GS receives an inordinate amount of recognition as it was supposedly done at the presence of the all the most important players at the time, who have just been unified in one tour since forever. The thing about it is that he was in the most privileged position of being the dominant player at the same time AND that the OE has actually NOT started in earnest, being decided upon only half a year prior and the tour featuring the same old competition.

I remember Graf receiving the high accolades, but they subsided with her being battled successfully by Seles, so you have a fuzzy memory about what was "decided" about her back then.

Finally, you don't have to tell me your opinion as a matter of fact from the tennis history: it isn't.

Like I said, you need a reality check. Just because you hate a player, you don't get to say where he stands.

:cool:
 

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Don't agree he choked AO 2005 (Safin was too good), but agree with your general point.

I think he did. And it's not because of the tweener on MP. It's because he was up 5-2 with a double mini break in the 4th set TB before the tweener point was even played. I don't have any exact numbers, but I bet his conversion rate in that scenario over his career is >90% at least, might even be >95%.
 

a10best

Hall of Fame
He faced Puerta, Ferrer, Anderson and Medvedev in major finals... LOL.
Novak also played Anderson in USO final.
He was also beaten by Med. He's proven as is Ferrer a solid top 5 in that era.
Puerta is the only odd standout.
5 of Novak's slam trophies have come from beating tired and "ever in pain" Murray.
 
D

Deleted member 775898

Guest
On clay, one can easily make the case they're equals.

Thiem leads Novak 2-1 at RG. He's clearly a clay specialist, whereas Novak is a fast surface specialist.

Fed is clearly a grass specialist, much more than Novak. Yet Novak bested him since 2014.
They're far from equal, considering that Thiem can't even win a clay Masters to save his life. And lately Thiem started to have better results on HC than on clay, so ...
 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
Is it really that hard to call Fed GOAT over Djokovic when he was three more Slams? Head to head IS a factor in GOAT discussions, but so is everything else. Actually head-to-heads hasn't really been a major part of GOAT discussions until now because we have this three-headed GOAT era where GOAT candidates overlap. Let's say back when Pete was GOAT to a lot of people, he had a losing record against someone from his era, It probably wouldn't have mattered to his GOAT candidacy because that other player wouldn't have been also been a GOAT candidate.
 

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Actually, in Laver times the Grand Slam was a distinction that had a lot less emphasis than it receives nowadays (albeit a high distinction, for sure). It wasn't "unattainable" as you put it, and the pro Majors were a separate (and some would say more important) recognition. Laver's GS receives an inordinate amount of recognition as it was supposedly done at the presence of the all the most important players at the time, who have just been unified in one tour since forever. The thing about it is that he was in the most privileged position of being the dominant player at the same time AND that the OE has actually NOT started in earnest, being decided upon only half a year prior and the tour featuring the same old competition.

I remember Graf receiving the high accolades, but they subsided with her being battled successfully by Seles, so you have a fuzzy memory about what was "decided" about her back then.

Finally, you don't have to tell me your opinion as a matter of fact from the tennis history: it isn't.

Like I said, you need a reality check. Just because you hate a player, you don't get to say where he stands.

:cool:

I've never heard or read any tennis coaches, historians or any experts claim that winning a grand slam(1 year of playing) is the prerequisite for GOAT. Quite illogical. Because that means Laver 1969 alone triumph Sampras, Borg, or the Big 3's entire career.

Anyway, measuring GOAThood was always about the player's entire career achievements - slams, titles, ranking, consistency, longevity, level of dominance, streaks/records, etc..

It's amazing that some haters can go to great lengths to spread misinformation.
 
Is it really that hard to call Fed GOAT over Djokovic when he was three more Slams? Head to head IS a factor in GOAT discussions, but so is everything else. Actually head-to-heads hasn't really been a major part of GOAT discussions until now because we have this three-headed GOAT era where GOAT candidates overlap. Let's say back when Pete was GOAT to a lot of people, he had a losing record against someone from his era, It probably wouldn't have mattered to his GOAT candidacy because that other player wouldn't have been also been a GOAT candidate.

Head to heads in the OE are almost always skewed in favour of the younger ATG. That is a fact from the tennis history that no amount of stat pretzeling will overcome ever, and it is no coincidence. Also, tennis is a sport against the field, not against separate players. A player doesn't win only against whichever rival he is compared, and so tournament wins and other meaningful accomplishments are paramount, not rivalries. Rivalries are a side show that might or might not explain why a player has won as much as he did.

:cool:
 
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terribleIVAN

Hall of Fame
They're far from equal, considering that Thiem can't even win a clay Masters to save his life.

For the last 3 years, Thiem has won 5 clay titles to Novak's 3, in addition to him leading Novak 2-1 at RG. Overall, he's 10 clay titles to Novak's 15. And he's beaten 4 times Nadal on clay to Novak's 7.

He's clearly the better clay player for these last 3 years.
 
D

Deleted member 775898

Guest
For the last 3 years, Thiem has won 5 clay titles to Novak's 3, in addition to him leading Novak 2-1 at RG. Overall, he's 10 clay titles to Novak's 15. And he's beaten 4 times Nadal on clay to Novak's 7.

He's clearly the better clay player for these last 3 years.
But he hasn't won a single big clay title and he has 0 clay Masters to Djokovic's 10. I guess he's been more of a threat to Rafa on clay in the last years, but he's still really far behind in terms of achievments.
 

terribleIVAN

Hall of Fame
But he hasn't won a single big clay title and he has 0 clay Masters to Djokovic's 10. I guess he's been more of a threat to Rafa on clay in the last years, but he's still really far behind in terms of achievments.

Thank you, that was my whole point.

Roger couldn't overcome a 6 year age deficit vs Novak at Wimbledon, but Rafa could vs Thiem, at the same age.

And he did it against another clay specialist like himself, while Roger is a better grass specialist than Novak.
 
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Ok, I missed that 3 posts thread :rolleyes:

... That can be seen as sarcastic stuff, because there is no explanation in op...

Anyway your posting history is full of Fed goating and Rafole weak era (no new ATG) winning...

You need to learn to take a loss, and not whine incessantly like you do here.

:cool:
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Actually, in Laver times the Grand Slam was a distinction that had a lot less emphasis than it receives nowadays (albeit a high distinction, for sure).

Historically false. Laver and his achievement were celebrated due to the Grand Slam's historic nature (one shared by professional golf), and yes, it one of the most unattainable achievements in sports of any kind. Fifty-one years will pass in less than two weeks and still no male player has ever had the GOAT-level game to win it. Having that kind of perfect game is a near-impossibility, hence its GOAT distinction.

I remember Graf receiving the high accolades, but they subsided with her being battled successfully by Seles, so you have a fuzzy memory about what was "decided" about her back then.

Historically false - the sequel. No one stopped recognizing Graf as one of the GOAT players because of Seles at all. Graf's 1988 record was a constant reference to her acendency over all others playing at the time, including the older generation led by Navratilova and Evert, and the slightly younger with players like Seles, who could not win the Grand Slam, as evidenced by her lone Wimbledon final--at the recognized height of her game--being a tennis clinic with Graf as the instructor.

So, all of your revisionist history--or flat out ignorance of history is yet another attempt--at the end of it all--to keep Federer afloat as some alleged "king" of tennis. It is not working, as he certainly was not on the level required to win the Grand Slam, and he's now matched in majors count, and eventually he will be bumped down to #3 on that list.
 

toth

Hall of Fame
Thank you, that was my whole point.

Roger couldn't overcome a 6 year age deficit vs Novak at Wimbledon, but Rafa could vs Thiem, at the same age.

And he did it against another clay specialist like himself, while Roger is a better grass specialist than Novak.
I think Djokovic 17 slam against Thiem 1 slam is a factor too...
 

toth

Hall of Fame
For the last 3 years, Thiem has won 5 clay titles to Novak's 3, in addition to him leading Novak 2-1 at RG. Overall, he's 10 clay titles to Novak's 15. And he's beaten 4 times Nadal on clay to Novak's 7.

He's clearly the better clay player for these last 3 years.
Has not win Thiem 3 times against Djokovic at the FO?
I think this Thiem Djokovic 2:1 h2h is not correct...
 
Historically false. Laver and his achievement were celebrated due to the Grand Slam's historic nature (one shared by professional golf), and yes, it one of the most unattainable achievements in sports of any kind. Fifty-one years will pass in less than two weeks and still no male player has ever had the GOAT-level game to win it. Having that kind of perfect game is a near-impossibility, hence its GOAT distinction.

It is not historically false. You were speaking of Laver times: the tour was fresh from having just merged, with the pro Majors carrying significantly more weight than the amateur Majors and the GS being achieved in recent memory (from another player too). None of the hindsight that you use, including your bombastic retorspect about 51 years having passed form Laver's achievement, apply to the time in question. You "hence" doesn't follow, not in that historical time, so it is you once again presenting your own ideas for historical truth. I already told you what to do with them.

Historically false - the sequel. No one stopped recognizing Graf as one of the GOAT players because of Seles at all. Graf's 1988 record was a constant reference to her acendency over all others playing at the time, including the older generation led by Navratilova and Evert, and the slightly younger with players like Seles, who could not win the Grand Slam, as evidenced by her lone Wimbledon final--at the recognized height of her game--being a tennis clinic with Graf as the instructor.

You continue to use GOAT in plural, which is a absurd. You don't understand what GOAT means or is a reference to. You are incorrect also in saying that no one stopped recognising Graf as one of the "GOATS". At the time Graf was so far from being anywhere near GOAT status that it is not even funny. I was speaking of ANYONE recognising her as such due to her problems with Seles. Even her projection as potential future GOAT (and not even recognised at the time as such) suffered because of these problems. Something that is used even today against her from many a people. That you are not aware of those sentiments speak of your relative lack of knowledge or honesty to acknowledge that that is so. Either way, you are wrong.

So, all of your revisionist history--or flat out ignorance of history is yet another attempt--at the end of it all--to keep Federer afloat as some alleged "king" of tennis. It is not working, as he certainly was not on the level required to win the Grand Slam, and he's now matched in majors count, and eventually he will be bumped down to #3 on that list.

Out of the two of us, I am not the one using the GOAT moniker incorrectly. I am also not the one who uses hindsight to load past events with their current context. I am also not the one who plain and simple fabricate facts about what had what importance, and finally, I am not the one using random meanings that have no historical justification in the reality of the past, to make my points. That is all on you. That you feel that you can do all that just because you presume that I am speaking from a position of bias is nothing more than an illiterate way of arguing topped with a logical fallacy, indicating that you have no other means to prove your point. As for Federer, I am happy where he is in the history. His place cannot be taken away from him, and his body of work will remain unremovable forever. I am absolutely fine with the others thinking whatever their knowledge and understanding of the sport lets them.

:cool:
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
It is not historically false. You were speaking of Laver times: the tour was fresh from having just merged, with the pro Majors carrying significantly more weight than the amateur Majors and the GS being achieved in recent memory (from another player too). None of the hindsight that you use, including your bombastic retorspect about 51 years having passed form Laver's achievement, apply to the time in question. You "hence" doesn't follow, not in that historical time, so it is you once again presenting your own ideas for historical truth. I already told you what to do with them.

Yes, you can continue to feed on the lie created by yuu and other Federer fanatics. The Grand Slam was and remains the zenith of tennis achievement,, not what some player did in his free time, winning non-majors, fake consolation "personal slams", finals appearances, or anything else. You will lie, but history does not. Laver, Court and others who won the Grand Slam were and are still considered the GOAT. It is that distinction, which pains you, as it is a very small club which Federer could not earn his way into at the height of his game.



You continue to use GOAT in plural, which is a absurd. You don't understand what GOAT means or is a reference to.

Study history (it is clear, you were not around to witness much of it), and refrain from embarrassing yourself on this board. You are so obsessed with trying to crown one player (everyone knows who that player is) that you prove you are utterly ignorant of where the term and concept of a greatest player in direct association with "Grand Slam" comes from. Like professional golf, with its own grand slam of four calendar majors irrevocably tied to players named the greatest of their sport, tennis uses the same achievement to recognize its greatest. Only someone born yesterday does not know that the Grand Slam is tied with the players consistently and historically identified as the greatest players. Yes, there's more than one, child, if they won the Grand Slam.

Wipe away the tears. The fact no man has been able to win the Grand Slam in 51 years and no woman in 32 is not only evidence of the incredible difficulty in winning all four in the calendar year, but a reminder that the astounding talent and understanding of the game required to win it only graces a few special individuals across generations of a very old sport. The rest are not in that conversation at all, no matter how much trivia one tries to spin into GOAT-worthy credits.


At the time Graf was so far from being anywhere near GOAT status that it is not even funny.

Only you are saying that, which--like most of your post--is pulled from your rear. Graf was one of the most celebrated players of any sport in 1988--and forward because of her historic achievement. Your gross ignorance of the mass coverage and recognition of Graf as a GOAT player does not rewrite history, and certainly not in favor of Monica Seles and her own inability to win the Wimbledon title at the accepted height of her game. Navratilova has spent decades attacking Graf's record. Why? Because at the time, Navratilova believed she was some sort of GOAT until 1988, when she was neutralized across the board, with Graf rendering Navratilova's alleged dominance as the playthings of Martina's own dreams. Winning the Grand Slam and being called the greatest player of all time (since Court, Laver, et al.) was too much for Navratilova's inflated ego to bear, and as a result, she has--as noted--spent decades attacking her, when he real problem is with history she could not alter to favor her.


I am absolutely fine with the others thinking whatever their knowledge and understanding of the sport lets them.

Bull. You have wasted years posting your obsessive claim that Federer was some GOAT player, when he failed to earn the distinction. You--and another TTW obsessed fan--often play the ever doomed-to-fail game of belittling the importance of the Grand Slam and its permanent connection to GOAT status for one--and only one reason: Federer could not win it, therefore, if (in the minds of the worst of Federer's fans) if the Grand Slam is not tied to GOAT status, one can play Trivial Pursuit - the Tennis Edition by piling on meaningless stats to pump up a certain man as a GOAT player.

...until those stats are surpassed by other players, then the infamous GOAT goal posts move once again. Oh, and they already do, since there's another group of Federer fanatics who screamed "He am GOAT!" for more than a decade based on his majors count, but now that Nadal matched him, the script has flipped to "No such thing as a GOAT!"

Yes, there are GOAT players...and none are currently active on tour.
 

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Roger couldn't overcome a 6 year age deficit vs Novak at Wimbledon, but Rafa could vs Thiem, at the same age.
Your whole point is stupidity incarnate.

Unspoken is that Nadal defeated Thiem, a guy who is not an ATG by any stretch of the imagination. And you compare Thiem to the player Fed had to defeat at 2019 Wimbledon? That opponent happened to be Djokovic, who is an ATG who held 16 slams then and was a dominant #1 player.

And never mind Nadal was 33 playing against a lowly 26 year old opponent while Fed was almost 39 playing against a 32 year old with 16 slams.

Your analogy is laughable.
 
Yes, you can continue to feed on the lie created by yuu and other Federer fanatics. The Grand Slam was and remains the zenith of tennis achievement,, not what some player did in his free time, winning non-majors, fake consolation "personal slams", finals appearances, or anything else. You will lie, but history does not. Laver, Court and others who won the Grand Slam were and are still considered the GOAT. It is that distinction, which pains you, as it is a very small club which Federer could not earn his way into at the height of his game.

There is no lie in what I say, but there is a strawman in what you say. I didn't say that the GS isn't potentially the biggest achievement in tennis, I said that it is not the insurmountable, nor the sole one for a player to be annonuced "GOAT" (if one wants to deal with such definitions). You tried to change my statement, and you failed. Also, you still use wrongly the term GOAT, which dictates that only one player amongst his peer group can be such. GOAT in plural is nonsense.

Study history (it is clear, you were not around to witness much of it), and refrain from embarrassing yourself on this board. You are so obsessed with trying to crown one player (everyone knows who that player is) that you prove you are utterly ignorant of where the term and concept of a greatest player in direct association with "Grand Slam" comes from. Like professional golf, with its own grand slam of four calendar majors irrevocably tied to players named the greatest of their sport, tennis uses the same achievement to recognize its greatest. Only someone born yesterday does not know that the Grand Slam is tied with the players consistently and historically identified as the greatest players. Yes, there's more than one, child, if they won the Grand Slam.

Apparently nothing is clear to you, since you continue to use the plural for GOAT (there are other problems with your stance, but one is quite enough, at this time). No, actually the fact that Tennis borrowed it from Golf, means that it wasn't an original concept within the game. It also means that quite a few tennis legends were literally excluded from that distinction. What is more: the GS, when the tour was separated on Pros and Amateurs, could have potentially be determined within the Amateur ranks only, while most/all of the best players were playing in the Pro tournaments. If tennis wanted to have that distinction attached to the top of the game, they wouldn't have decided THAT, but such questions are reserved for those that can perform some critical thinking, and not mad haters on the Internet.

Wipe away the tears. The fact no man has been able to win the Grand Slam in 51 years and no woman in 32 is not only evidence of the incredible difficulty in winning all four in the calendar year, but a reminder that the astounding talent and understanding of the game required to win it only graces a few special individuals across generations of a very old sport. The rest are not in that conversation at all, no matter how much trivia one tries to spin into GOAT-worthy credits..

The only one crying here is you.

I will just repost what I told you, and you apparently didn't read:

"None of the hindsight that you use, including your bombastic retorspect about 51 years having passed form Laver's achievement, apply to the time in question. You "hence" doesn't follow, not in that historical time, so it is you once again presenting your own ideas for historical truth. I already told you what to do with them."

Only you are saying that, which--like most of your post--is pulled from your rear. Graf was one of the most celebrated players of any sport in 1988--and forward because of her historic achievement.

At the time of achieving the GS Graf was so far from certain to achieve all needed to achieve the GOAT status that even if I wan't there (I was) I could have told you, that no one was making such a claim. Possible future GOAT, sure, but CROWNING her GOAT - NO.

Your gross ignorance of the mass coverage and recognition of Graf as a GOAT player does not rewrite history, and certainly not in favor of Monica Seles and her own inability to win the Wimbledon title at the accepted height of her game. Navratilova has spent decades attacking Graf's record. Why? Because at the time, Navratilova believed she was some sort of GOAT until 1988, when she was neutralized across the board, with Graf rendering Navratilova's alleged dominance as the playthings of Martina's own dreams. Winning the Grand Slam and being called the greatest player of all time (since Court, Laver, et al.) was too much for Navratilova's inflated ego to bear, and as a result, she has--as noted--spent decades attacking her, when he real problem is with history she could not alter to favor her.

In fact, I am a friend with one of the people reporting in the German Tennis magazine, so I am more than familiar with the "mass coverage" on Steffi's results. An American instructing me on what the "mass coverage" for Graf was is hilarious beyond words. To this day questions about how Seles's career would have panned out, if it wasn't for the accident with her are asked, and, while they don't change the History, there is no doubt that history was changed. Beyond that statement, nothing conclusive can be said, like you do here, so I must conclude, that you are venturing in the realm of your fantasies about how these events should be interpreted. Martina doesn't have to wish anything that Graf had, as she had plenty of her own that secure her place in the highest places of the tennis history. If you can't accept it, tough luck.

Bull. You have wasted years posting your obsessive claim that Federer was some GOAT player, when he failed to earn the distinction. You--and another TTW obsessed fan--often play the ever doomed-to-fail game of belittling the importance of the Grand Slam and its permanent connection to GOAT status for one--and only one reason: Federer could not win it, therefore, if (in the minds of the worst of Federer's fans) if the Grand Slam is not tied to GOAT status, one can play Trivial Pursuit - the Tennis Edition by piling on meaningless stats to pump up a certain man as a GOAT player.

You haven't been very attentive about what I post, apparently, so there is "bull" indeed, but it is in your own writing. I don't even believe in the "GOAT" distinction, as there is just too much that cannot be compared to make such comparison. Any knowledgeable tennis historian will tell you that.

...until those stats are surpassed by other players, then the infamous GOAT goal posts move once again. Oh, and they already do, since there's another group of Federer fanatics who screamed "He am GOAT!" for more than a decade based on his majors count, but now that Nadal matched him, the script has flipped to "No such thing as a GOAT!"

Yes, there are GOAT players...and none are currently active on tour.

Your opinion? Oh, my! What are we going to do now?

:cool:
 

terribleIVAN

Hall of Fame
Your whole point is stupidity incarnate.

Unspoken is that Nadal defeated Thiem, a guy who is not an ATG by any stretch of the imagination. And you compare Thiem to the player Fed had to defeat at 2019 Wimbledon? That opponent happened to be Djokovic, who is an ATG who held 16 slams then and was a dominant #1 player.

And never mind Nadal was 33 playing against a lowly 26 year old opponent while Fed was almost 39 playing against a 32 year old with 16 slams.

Your analogy is laughable.

Except i was talking about the 2014 Wimbledon final, sweetie.

So get to your meds and learn to read before using profanity to make yourself dumber than you really are.

Fed was losing to Novak at W 2014 when he was just 32.

Rafa at the same age was beating Thiem at RG 2018.

Why could Rafa overcome a 7 year disadvantage, but Roger couldn't ?

And for the record, Thiem is now 16-18 against the big 3. His H2H% vs Federer is better than either Novak or Rafa.

To win a slam, he had to contend not against 1 ATG (like Fed had to do vs Rafa until 2007), not against 2 ATGs ( Novak joins the party later on) but against all 3 of them.

Federer himself never managed to beat both Novak and Rafa in the same slam !

Imagine a new comer having to beat Rafa, Fed and Novak to get on the slam scoreboard !

He's more than deserving to be compared to the 3 of them.
 
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THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
There is no lie in what I say

:-D

The only one crying here is you.

Laughable and one of your usual lies, since you have a very long board history of whining about Federer in any thread, desperately trying (and failing) to convince anyone that he's the god of tennis. Just close your eyes and ignore evidence weighing heavily against that claim.

In fact, I am a friend with one of the people reporting in the German Tennis magazine

Sure you're not.

To this day questions about how Seles's career would have panned out, if it wasn't for the accident with her are asked, and, while they don't change the History, there is no doubt that history was changed.

Fantasy. Endless threads with a few, obsessed members creating sci-fi-esque alternate realities about Seles is based on as much fact as the printed answers in a Magic 8 -Ball toy. In other words, it is not based on evidence or reasonable projections to any degree.

Martina doesn't have to wish anything that Graf had, as she had plenty of her own that secure her place in the highest places of the tennis history

Yet she did jealously rant about Graf for decades while on tour and as a commentator, so your post is--always--meaningless and divorced from true history.

As noted yesterday, you have wasted years posting your obsessive claim that Federer was some GOAT player, when he failed to earn the distinction. You--and another TTW obsessed fan--often play the ever doomed-to-fail game of belittling the importance of the Grand Slam and its permanent, historically recognized connection to GOAT status for one--and only one reason: Federer could not win it. If (in the minds of the worst of Federer's fans) the Grand Slam is not tied to GOAT status, they can play Trivial Pursuit - the Tennis Edition by piling on meaningless stats to pump up a certain man as a GOAT player, such as what he does in his free time.

...that is, until those stats are surpassed by other players, then the infamous GOAT goal posts move once again. Yes, there's another group of Federer fanatics who screamed "He am GOAT!" for more than a decade based on his majors count, but now that Nadal matched him, the script has flipped to "No such thing as a GOAT!" The twists, turns and outright lies spewed by the worst of Federer's fans would be humorous, if it was not so sad.
 
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D

Deleted member 777746

Guest
Your whole point is stupidity incarnate.

Unspoken is that Nadal defeated Thiem, a guy who is not an ATG by any stretch of the imagination. And you compare Thiem to the player Fed had to defeat at 2019 Wimbledon? That opponent happened to be Djokovic, who is an ATG who held 16 slams then and was a dominant #1 player.

And never mind Nadal was 33 playing against a lowly 26 year old opponent while Fed was almost 39 playing against a 32 year old with 16 slams.

Your analogy is laughable.
Fed's whole career was built off beating people younger than himself. Problem is, once they grew up, he couldn't hold the fort and has been in (slow) retreat ever since.
 

clayqueen

Talk Tennis Guru
Also Nadal is very close to tying Federer at the US Open, only needs to win ONE more. And he loves playing at the US Open he's won 4 of them despite not even playing in 2012, 2014 and 2020, so a great chance at winning more.
.....And retiring injured in the SF in 2018.
 
D

Deleted member 777746

Guest
:-D



Laughable and one of your usual lies, since you have a very long board history of whining about Federer in any thread, desperately trying (and failing) to convince anyone that he's the god of tennis. Just close your eyes and ignore evidence weighing heavily against that claim.



Sure you're not.



Fantasy. Endless threads with a few, obsessed members creating sci-fi-esque alternate realities about Seles is based on as much fact as the printed answers in a Magic 8 -Ball toy. In other words, it is not based on evidence or reasonable projections to any degree.



Yet she did jealously rant about Graf for decades while on tour and as a commentator, so your post is--always--meaningless and divorced from true history.

As noted yesterday, you have wasted years posting your obsessive claim that Federer was some GOAT player, when he failed to earn the distinction. You--and another TTW obsessed fan--often play the ever doomed-to-fail game of belittling the importance of the Grand Slam and its permanent, historically recognized connection to GOAT status for one--and only one reason: Federer could not win it. If (in the minds of the worst of Federer's fans) the Grand Slam is not tied to GOAT status, they can play Trivial Pursuit - the Tennis Edition by piling on meaningless stats to pump up a certain man as a GOAT player, such as what he does in his free time.

...that is, until those stats are surpassed by other players, then the infamous GOAT goal posts move once again. Yes, there's another group of Federer fanatics who screamed "He am GOAT!" for more than a decade based on his majors count, but now that Nadal matched him, the script has flipped to "No such thing as a GOAT!" The twists, turns and outright lies spewed by the worst of Federer's fans would be humorous, if it was not so sad.
Great post. Huge fan of your work. Keep it up
 
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