Not playing each other in over a year hurt Alcaraz

[Hitman]

Alex Corretja was giving some insight into the behind the scenes with Alcaraz after he won the quarters. Apparently Ferrero was struggling to contain Carlos' energy, CA has basically worked himself up too much regarding the long overdue match. Alex said he spoke to Carlos after the demolition of Tsitsipas about how he is feeling, and was concerned when Carlos said that he is already thinking about Djokovic and wants to play the match right now. Alex looked at Ferrero almost concerned that Alcaraz was expending too much energy getting amped up this far out from the match. Ferrero also later told Alex, that Alcaraz couldn't wait to get onto the courts the very next morning and wanted to play a match straight away, he was insisting on it.

I think the whole moment got to him and he psyched himself out, draining himself of a lot of emotional energy due to being so high strung. The question was about who was the real number one, it was not just about who would get to the RG final, the fact these two had owned the tour almost parallel to each other and never played was a situation that we had never ever seen before...the top two guys would meet more often than not. Djokovic won Wimbledon, Alcaraz won USO, Djokovic wins YEC, Alcaraz wins year ending number one, Djokovi wins AO, Alcaraz wins IW and Madrid....the will they won't they narrative played on CA's mind, and when it finally happened, he got too out of control.

Add to this mind games, Djokovic did that celebration after winning at AO which was a clear calling out of CA, who has the tattoo with the very saying...so CA sends out a tweet with that before the match.

The match in the first two sets was brutal, but CA was going at 100% on virtually everything, and his body which was already running on adrenaline since Tuesday started to give out on him. It is why you saw Ferrero telling him to calm down, he simply couldn't control himself....a huge learning curve and experience for him to take from this. Add to this Novak came with a clear game plan and was planning to peak for CA from the start, and the massive let down happened.

 

[StrongRule]

I have no doubt all that hype also played a role in his collapse. He probably overrated himself. But that's not an excuse.

 

[Hitman]

I have no doubt all that hype also played a role in his collapse. He probably overrated himself. But that's not an excuse.

He's not saying it is an excuse. Corretja is talking about what he saw and was concerned that CA was burning way too much energy and that Ferrero was struggling to contain him and calm him down. Like a kid who has had too much sugar.

 

[HashDump]

Majoriti of Fed fans hate Djokovic, which coresponds with crowd booing him almost every single tournament. They simply can't accept the fact that Djokovic surpassed Federer in every single stat except in popularity which is irrelevant cause 20 years from now no one will remember how many fans loved him, but what records he holds.

 

[Ray Mercer]

Maybe but at the end of the day if he’s truly great now he would have been ready. Djokovic is 36 and should not be winning on a grinders surface. It’s sad that he will only rise to the top because of Djokovic retiring.

 

[Ray Mercer]

Majoriti of Fed fans hate Djokovic, which coresponds with crowd booing him almost every single tournament. They simply can't accept the fact that Djokovic surpassed Federer in every single stat except in popularity which is irrelevant cause 20 years from now no one will remember how many fans loved him, but what records he holds.

Hasn’t surpassed him in Wimbledons yet and the reality is his career only really took off when Federer and Nadal declined. Federer beat him at 3 straight US Opens while he was still in his prime. It was only when Federer got old did Djokovic turn the tide.

 

[Hypo Crisis]

He's not saying it is an excuse. Corretja is talking about what he saw and was concerned that CA was burning way too much energy and that Ferrero was struggling to contain him and calm him down. Like a kid who has had too much sugar.

Strangely enough, Alcaraz always looks this way - too much energy that he has to burn somewhere (like Rafa after numb foot). If I didn't know Spaniard sportsmen, I would say he swallowed some kind of a pill.

 

[Hypo Crisis]

Hasn’t surpassed him in Wimbledons yet and the reality is his career only really took off when Federer and Nadal declined. Federer beat him at 3 straight US Opens while he was still in his prime. It was only when Federer got old did Djokovic turn the tide.

Novak did 2011, he tarnished Rafa AND Fed and everyone else on tour that year while they were in prime. Fedal couldn't replicate that never, ever. Period.
It's more likely that Fed sneaked some win here and there catching Novak off guard.
H2H is a good proof btw.

 

[robthai]

He will have more chances to redeem himself but he must do so sooner or else the rest of his career will have an asterisk. He can't afford to wait until Novak is 40.

 

[Biotic]

Hasn’t surpassed him in Wimbledons yet and the reality is his career only really took off when Federer and Nadal declined. Federer beat him at 3 straight US Opens while he was still in his prime. It was only when Federer got old did Djokovic turn the tide.

Well what a coincidence, cuz it was only after Sampras retired and Agassi was barely moving, that Federer started winning anything.

 

[ibbi]

I think his attitude after the QF was refreshing to see instead of the usual solemn respect and banal platitudes, I loved that youthful enthusiasm and being so excited for it, but in hindsight it is easy to see that's where it started. The kid psyched himself up and psyched himself out. The suspense literally killed him. People compare his attitude to Nadal, but with Nadal it was literally just an on the court thing, a warrior spirit for when he had a racquet in his hand, with Alcaraz I think it is literally a full-time gig, and he may need to (sadly) rein it in and start acting like another one of the pack. Kind of like when Djokovic had to stop doing the impressions.

Ferrero has done a sterling job with him in terms of tennis, but it's time to work on the mental now. Hope he's up to it.

 

[arvind13]

Novak did 2011, he tarnished Rafa AND Fed and everyone else on tour that year while they were in prime. Fedal couldn't replicate that never, ever. Period.
It's more likely that Fed sneaked some win here and there catching Novak off guard.
H2H is a good proof btw.

Federer turned 30 in 2011. Wasn’t in his prime. Nadal yes still in his prime

 

[Djokodalerer31]

Hasn’t surpassed him in Wimbledons yet and the reality is his career only really took off when Federer and Nadal declined. Federer beat him at 3 straight US Opens while he was still in his prime. It was only when Federer got old did Djokovic turn the tide.

Djokovic wasn't in his prime in 2009 or even 2010 yet...it happened in 2011...that's when the prime started...at that time it was natural for him to expect to lose to Fedal at any stage of ANY grand slam, not just the USO...he was basically the third wheel of the big-3 before 2011 happened, and when it happened he said - enough is enough and then started beating them regularly!...

 

[Hitman]

I think his attitude after the QF was refreshing to see instead of the usual solemn respect and banal platitudes, I loved that youthful enthusiasm and being so excited for it, but in hindsight it is easy to see that's where it started. The kid psyched himself up and psyched himself out. The suspense literally killed him. People compare his attitude to Nadal, but with Nadal it was literally just an on the court thing, a warrior spirit for when he had a racquet in his hand, with Alcaraz I think it is literally a full-time gig, and he may need to (sadly) rein it in and start acting like another one of the pack. Kind of like when Djokovic had to stop doing the impressions.

Ferrero has done a sterling job with him in terms of tennis, but it's time to work on the mental now. Hope he's up to it.

Yep. His excitement was ultimately what started the implosion. A match he had been waiting a full year for, finally happening....was too much for his senses.

 

[CoolCoolCool]

I suspect being ranked #1 didn't help either.

 

[DSH]

Maybe but at the end of the day if he’s truly great now he would have been ready. Djokovic is 36 and should not be winning on a grinders surface. It’s sad that he will only rise to the top because of Djokovic retiring.

Just like at Wimbledon, Djokovic will win more RG titles in his 30s than in his prime.

 

[SonnyT]

Hasn’t surpassed him in Wimbledons yet and the reality is his career only really took off when Federer and Nadal declined. Federer beat him at 3 straight US Opens while he was still in his PRE-prime. It was only when Federer got old did Djokovic turn the tide.

Correction

Calling pre-'11 prime Djoko is absurd!

 

[robthai]

Well at least we have one sane Novak fan here who can analyze matches with logic. The rest of them resort to the typical "Novak is too physical for him" "Novak took his legs" analysis.

 

[BeatlesFan]

He will have more chances to redeem himself but he must do so sooner or else the rest of his career will have an asterisk.

Alcaraz's career is not going to have an asterisk just because he lost a slam semi against ancient Djokovic. If he goes on to win 14 slams, nobody will remember or mention a loss early in his career. Sampras isn't criticized for losing to teenage Roger at Wimbledon.

 

[Mike Sams]

It took Djokovic 3 years to win his second major. It shows how tough it is to really get fine tuned mentally and physically for the biggest stages.
Alcaraz seemed happy with his highlight reel shots yesterday. Smiling and laughing and all despite having lost the first set.

 

[Rattie]

Alex Corretja was giving some insight into the behind the scenes with Alcaraz after he won the quarters. Apparently Ferrero was struggling to contain Carlos' energy, CA has basically worked himself up too much regarding the long overdue match. Alex said he spoke to Carlos after the demolition of Tsitsipas about how he is feeling, and was concerned when Carlos said that he is already thinking about Djokovic and wants to play the match right now. Alex looked at Ferrero almost concerned that Alcaraz was expending too much energy getting amped up this far out from the match. Ferrero also later told Alex, that Alcaraz couldn't wait to get onto the courts the very next morning and wanted to play a match straight away, he was insisting on it.

I think the whole moment got to him and he psyched himself out, draining himself of a lot of emotional energy due to being so high strung. The question was about who was the real number one, it was not just about who would get to the RG final, the fact these two had owned the tour almost parallel to each other and never played was a situation that we had never ever seen before...the top two guys would meet more often than not. Djokovic won Wimbledon, Alcaraz won USO, Djokovic wins YEC, Alcaraz wins year ending number one, Djokovi wins AO, Alcaraz wins IW and Madrid....the will they won't they narrative played on CA's mind, and when it finally happened, he got too out of control.

Add to this mind games, Djokovic did that celebration after winning at AO which was a clear calling out of CA, who has the tattoo with the very saying...so CA sends out a tweet with that before the match.

The match in the first two sets was brutal, but CA was going at 100% on virtually everything, and his body which was already running on adrenaline since Tuesday started to give out on him. It is why you saw Ferrero telling him to calm down, he simply couldn't control himself....a huge learning curve and experience for him to take from this. Add to this Novak came with a clear game plan and was planning to peak for CA from the start, and the massive let down happened.

Interesting to read this. Thanks for posting. As Carlos himself admitted after the match, he has to learn from this. Can’t fault the lad for being keen to take on the challenge and not afraid of it, but he has learned a hard lesson. You can’t tell youngsters sometimes, they have to make their own mistakes.

I don’t expect this situation to repeat itself.

 

[mike danny]

Hasn’t surpassed him in Wimbledons yet and the reality is his career only really took off when Federer and Nadal declined. Federer beat him at 3 straight US Opens while he was still in his prime. It was only when Federer got old did Djokovic turn the tide.

People don't want to accept that Djokovic at 28 was 8-8 in slam finals at one point. He wasn't always this mythical unbeatable unshakable GOAT, but don't let that ruin their narrative

 

[Hitman]

Interesting to read this. Thanks for posting. As Carlos himself admitted after the match, he has to learn from this. Can’t fault the lad for being keen to take on the challenge and not afraid of it, but he has learned a hard lesson. You can’t tell youngsters sometimes, they have to make their own mistakes.

I don’t expect this situation to repeat itself.

Alex described the situation as Ferrero trying to tame a wild horse. Alcaraz's perpetual abundance of energy and inability to control his emotions was ultimately the start of his undoing, in a way, he was unravelling before he even got to the court. His adrenal glands must be complete fried from the non stop adrenaline he was pumping into his body for those days. Djokovic the true professional prepared according to the protocol and saved his energy for when it was actually needed.

You are right, sometimes youngsters need to make these mistakes, so they learn from them. Hopefully it will never happen again with him.

 

[Rattie]

Alex described the situation as Ferrero trying to tame a wild horse. Alcaraz's perpetual abundance of energy and inability to control his emotions was ultimately the start of his undoing, in a way, he was unravelling before he even got to the court. His adrenal glands must be complete fried from the non stop adrenaline he was pumping into his body for those days. Djokovic the true professional prepared according to the protocol and saved his energy for when it was actually needed.

You are right, sometimes youngsters need to make these mistakes, so they learn from them. Hopefully it will never happen again with him.

Agreed. He has a very exuberant personality by nature it seems which is a great character trait, but we all live and learn as they say, hopefully he will too.

 

[Texas Tennis Fan]

Federer turned 30 in 2011. Wasn’t in his prime. Nadal yes still in his prime

If not in his prime at 30, that is on Federer.

 

[NeutralFan]

Let us all pretend that Carlos was outplayed instead of getting an unlucky cramp.

 

[jackson vile]

I think the hype, ego, and writing off Novak as some old washed up man is what hurt Alcaraz and his fans

Novak was the favorite to win the moment he showed up, not Alcaraz

Hell, Alcaraz isn’t even a dark horse at this point, rather just a spoiled kid

His inexperience and immaturity consumed him, and we have to face it; he’s no Nadal

 

[Juice4080]

He will learn. Id rather have to slow a fast horse down than speed a slow one up

 

[Razer]

@Hitman - I think we are in for a big fight by the end of the year.

Novak lets say wins tomorrow, then lets assume he wins/loses wimbledon, we might have a situation when Novak will be fighting Alcaraz at US open when Alcaraz defends his trophy. IF Carlos wins that clash then we will have more hype for the next Aus open..... exciting times ahead

Next 12 months will be full of epic fights of Djoker - Alcaraz

 

[AO13]

Good take Hitman as always, right on target, nice post.

 

[NoleFam]

Good thread @Hitman

 

[Razer]

Yes good thread indeed, we got to know what was the reason for what we saw. Big clashes ahead in next 12 months.

 

[Hitman]

@Hitman - I think we are in for a big fight by the end of the year.

Novak lets say wins tomorrow, then lets assume he wins/loses wimbledon, we might have a situation when Novak will be fighting Alcaraz at US open when Alcaraz defends his trophy. IF Carlos wins that clash then we will have more hype for the next Aus open..... exciting times ahead

Next 12 months will be full of epic fights of Djoker - Alcaraz

I think we are just seeing the start of this rivalry, the tip of the iceberg. The younger challenger got to learn a valuable lesson the hard way about how to manage his energy....I think he valued the match against Djokovic more than the title itself, basically he needed this match badly to answer those lingering questions. It was almost like - I'll worry about the title after the Djokovic match if I win - instead of following the protocol that Ferrero had set for him.

I don't think we will be waiting too long before we see them fight again, now that Djokovic is allowed to play everywhere.

 

[Razer]

I think we are just seeing the start of this rivalry, the tip of the iceberg. The younger challenger got to learn a valuable lesson the hard way about how to manage his energy....I think he valued the match against Djokovic more than the title itself, basically he needed this match badly to answer those lingering questions. It was almost like - I'll worry about the title after the Djokovic match if I win - instead of following the protocol that Ferrero had set for him.

I don't think we will be waiting too long before we see them fight again, now that Djokovic is allowed to play everywhere.

Yeah and maybe Carlos cannot be held back too longer. He is going to get a win if they meet next time on clay and who knows at the US Open as well he will able to hold off Novak, nothing is certain but we need to see.

He is eager, thats for sure, he said if after his Tsistipas win twice (once after the match on the court and once during press conf) that to be the best you have to beat the best, so he is eager to prove himself against Djokovic. It is a good thing and he might prevail by the end of next year. The change of guard will happen but it will be gradual maybe, like novak winning on 1 surface and carlos wining on another and then finally carlos closing the gap on all surfaces.... interesting to see how it turns out.

 

[uscwang]

Well, let's not forget they played in the same tournaments since 2022 Madrid 5 times, which should be used in the comparison but conveniently not.

Novak vs Alcaraz

RG 2022 QF (l. to Nadal) vs. QF (l. to Zverev)
WB 2022 W vs. R16 (l. to Sinner)
Astana 2022 W vs. R32 (l. to Goffin)
Paris 2022 F (l. to Rune) vs. QF (l. to Rune)
Rome 2023 QF (l. to Rune) vs. R32 (l. to Marozsan)

And RG 2023 Novak W vs. Alcaraz SF (l. to Novak himself).

 

[NoleFam]

One other thing to add too is Alcaraz was trying to chase down everything. After Djokovic got settled in the match, he started doing what we've seen him do so many times before when there is a powerful threat in his presence. He was absorbing everything, and redirecting with high acceleration into the corners. Alcaraz has never played this type of intensity in a BO5 and really only Djokovic and Nadal can do that you on a physical level.

I do think it was more emotional though. He poured everything he had into that 2nd set to win it and they were just a set all, so there was still so much more going to be required to win it. He wasn't quite prepared but this was a learning experience for him for sure. He's going to know what to expect next time.

 

[Hitman]

Yeah and maybe Carlos cannot be held back too longer. He is going to get a win if they meet next time on clay and who knows at the US Open as well he will able to hold off Novak, nothing is certain but we need to see.

He is eager, thats for sure, he said if after his Tsistipas win twice (once after the match on the court and once during press conf) that to be the best you have to beat the best, so he is eager to prove himself against Djokovic. It is a good thing and he might prevail by the end of next year. The change of guard will happen but it will be gradual maybe, like novak winning on 1 surface and carlos wining on another and then finally carlos closing the gap on all surfaces.... interesting to see how it turns out.

We certainly have not seen the last of Djokovic v Alcaraz. I expect several heavyweight clashes between these two, they are the two alphas jostling for the top spot. One match at RG isn't going to be the end of it, it's only the start.

 

[Sampras-Bruguera 1993]

He dominated most of the clay season... Djokovic has been phoning it in since AO and is just peaking for slams now and using Masters as a warm up tournament and the sets Djoker won he won convincingly.. I think the excuses by the pundits have to stop because there is no excuse for Alcaraz. He was just picked apart by Djokovic like buzzard to a roadkill. They didn't play for a year? I don't care if they never played. Hes 20 and playing solid clay tennis and the other guy is 36 just using this tour as a practice session and not playing a packed tennis schedule any longer

 

[helterskelter]

He's not saying it is an excuse. Corretja is talking about what he saw and was concerned that CA was burning way too much energy and that Ferrero was struggling to contain him and calm him down. Like a kid who has had too much sugar.

Thank you for pointing this out. As if Alcaraz needs to make excuses! He does not owe anyone excuses or apologies, except possibly himself, and that's a private matter for him.

With luck, this will be a learning experience for him and he will prepare much better next time.

 

[Hitman]

One other thing to add too is Alcaraz was trying to chase down everything. After Djokovic got settled in the match, he started doing what we've seen him do so many times before when there is a powerful threat in his presence. He was absorbing everything, and redirecting with high acceleration into the corners. Alcaraz has never played this type of intensity in a BO5 and really only Djokovic and Nadal can do that you on a physical level.

I do think it was more emotional though. He poured everything he had into that 2nd set to win it and they were just a set all, so there was still so much more going to be required to win it. He wasn't quite prepared but this was a learning experience for him for sure. He's going to know what to expect next time.

I would agree with this.

 

[TheNachoMan]

Fed fans were ready for us to join in on the age excuses. lol

 

[helterskelter]

People don't want to accept that Djokovic at 28 was 8-8 in slam finals at one point. He wasn't always this mythical unbeatable unshakable GOAT, but don't let that ruin their narrative

A true slouch! Tier III ATG at best! What kind of a loser doesn't even make 17 slam finals until after he's turned 28 and doesn't even win a majority of those he does reach?

 

[travlerajm]

Let us all pretend that Carlos was outplayed instead of getting an unlucky cramp.

A cramp is not unlucky.

A cramp is a consequence of lack of adequate conditioning and/or preparation for the match conditions.

I lost my most recent tournament match to a cramp too. I could call myself unlucky, or I can own up to the fact that I didn’t adequately prepare with the right pre-match salts, fluids, etc. for the match conditions.

 

[LaVie en Rose]

Described ADHD?
To me he doesn't look as he suffers it.

Maybe, just maybe he is not (yet) that great as he looked under mostly special circumstances as uscwang noted

Well, let's not forget they played in the same tournaments since 2022 Madrid 5 times, which should be used in the comparison but conveniently not.

Novak vs Alcaraz

RG 2022 QF (l. to Nadal) vs. QF (l. to Zverev)
WB 2022 W vs. R16 (l. to Sinner)
Astana 2022 W vs. R32 (l. to Goffin)
Paris 2022 F (l. to Rune) vs. QF (l. to Rune)
Rome 2023 QF (l. to Rune) vs. R32 (l. to Marozsan)

And RG 2023 Novak in the final vs. Alcaraz SF l. to Novak himself.

 

[NeutralFan]

A cramp is not unlucky.

A cramp is a consequence of lack of adequate conditioning and/or preparation for the match conditions.

I lost my most recent tournament match to a cramp too. I could call myself unlucky, or I can own up to the fact that I didn’t adequately prepare with the right pre-match salts, fluids, etc. for the match conditions.

It happens even with the ones with conditioning. Alcaraz played 3
Five setters in a row at USO. Btw people here are acting as he was outplayed or something. If anything he was 1-1 and has bps in third set in a game before he got injured and held his serve comfortably. People here are acting as if he is not that good and got outplayed by Djokovic.

 

[mike danny]

A true slouch! Tier III ATG at best! What kind of a loser doesn't even make 17 slam finals until after he's turned 28 and doesn't even win a majority of those he does reach?

Point being he wasn't always what his fans perceive him to be. Most of his career stats came afterwards.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

A thread of excuses, excuses, excuses, instead of accepting what every sensible viewer witnessed: Djokovic was superior to the overhyped, would-be GOAT Alcaraz.

 

[Mustard]

Majoriti of Fed fans hate Djokovic, which coresponds with crowd booing him almost every single tournament. They simply can't accept the fact that Djokovic surpassed Federer in every single stat except in popularity which is irrelevant cause 20 years from now no one will remember how many fans loved him, but what records he holds.

I doubt that. Lendl was never more popular than Connors and McEnroe. I remember thinking in the 1990s that Lendl deserved more attention due to his achievements.

 

[jl809]

A thread of excuses, excuses, excuses, instead of accepting what every sensible viewer witnessed: Djokovic was superior to the overhyped, would-be GOAT Alcaraz.

Superior in terms of conditioning, sure

In terms of tennis, for like 4 games in the first set and that was it lol

 

[mike danny]

Fed fans were ready for us to join in on the age excuses. lol

Again, it's only an excuse because there is no great young player after him