Not playing each other in over a year hurt Alcaraz

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
It happens even with the ones with conditioning. Alcaraz played 3 give setters in a row at USO. Btw people here are acting as he was outplayed or something. If anything he was 1-1 and has bps in third set in a game before he got injured and held his serve comfortably. People here are acting as if he is not that good and got outplayed by Djokovic.
He was out-gamed.

For the first two sets, Alcaraz was redlining full throttle with his legs to run 100% for every drop shot and corner blast, while Djokovic was calmly directing traffic and coasting forward to reach the tough drops.

Then after set 2, Djokovic goes inside and takes a cool shower, cools his body down, drinks a half-gallon of electrolytes. and refreshes into a fresh kit.

Meanwhile, Carlos is out basking in the scorching sun and dancing giddily in his chair for 5 minutes, thinking he has the momentum.

Two games later his body tapped out.
 

SonnyT

Legend
If Djokovic had been allowed to play '22 UO, most probably he and Carlos would've faced each other.

Carlos is heads and shoulders above anyone else, the next several slams should be decided between him and Djokovic.
 

thrust

Legend
He was out-gamed.

For the first two sets, Alcaraz was redlining full throttle with his legs to run 100% for every drop shot and corner blast, while Djokovic was calmly directing traffic and coasting forward to reach the tough drops.

Then after set 2, Djokovic goes inside and takes a cool shower, cools his body down, drinks a half-gallon of electrolytes. and refreshes into a fresh kit.

Meanwhile, Carlos is out basking in the scorching sun and dancing giddily in his chair for 5 minutes, thinking he has the momentum.

Two games later his body tapped out.
Couldn't Carlos do the same? He is only 20, had won a slam and won 2 masters titles. Unless he has a serious physical problem he will be fine, though perhaps this match probably made him realize his coach was right. Some people seem to have forgotten that Rafa could have lost vs Zverev last year or spent much more time on court, before the injury
 

Bertie B

Hall of Fame
I think we are just seeing the start of this rivalry [Djoko vs Alcaraz], the tip of the iceberg.

No!!

Alcacraz does not have the astrology to be a threat to Djokovic - the way Rafa was to Fed, Djoko to Rafa, Stan to Djoko, Seles to Graf, etc. He doesn't have it. The players who have it are lazy little girls, poodles in tutus - Stefanos Tsitsipas, Daniil Medvedev.

Djokovic is a Gemini w/ Mars in Cancer, these are his poles. Alcaraz is Taurus-Aquarius. There is no connection here.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Alex Corretja was giving some insight into the behind the scenes with Alcaraz after he won the quarters. Apparently Ferrero was struggling to contain Carlos' energy, CA has basically worked himself up too much regarding the long overdue match. Alex said he spoke to Carlos after the demolition of Tsitsipas about how he is feeling, and was concerned when Carlos said that he is already thinking about Djokovic and wants to play the match right now. Alex looked at Ferrero almost concerned that Alcaraz was expending too much energy getting amped up this far out from the match. Ferrero also later told Alex, that Alcaraz couldn't wait to get onto the courts the very next morning and wanted to play a match straight away, he was insisting on it.

I think the whole moment got to him and he psyched himself out, draining himself of a lot of emotional energy due to being so high strung. The question was about who was the real number one, it was not just about who would get to the RG final, the fact these two had owned the tour almost parallel to each other and never played was a situation that we had never ever seen before...the top two guys would meet more often than not. Djokovic won Wimbledon, Alcaraz won USO, Djokovic wins YEC, Alcaraz wins year ending number one, Djokovi wins AO, Alcaraz wins IW and Madrid....the will they won't they narrative played on CA's mind, and when it finally happened, he got too out of control.

Add to this mind games, Djokovic did that celebration after winning at AO which was a clear calling out of CA, who has the tattoo with the very saying...so CA sends out a tweet with that before the match.

The match in the first two sets was brutal, but CA was going at 100% on virtually everything, and his body which was already running on adrenaline since Tuesday started to give out on him. It is why you saw Ferrero telling him to calm down, he simply couldn't control himself....a huge learning curve and experience for him to take from this. Add to this Novak came with a clear game plan and was planning to peak for CA from the start, and the massive let down happened.
This is worse than melatonin excuse. The kid will act like a kid which is given.

He played 3 one handers and feasted on them due to his youth and movement. But when he faced equal opponent he couldn't win.

It was youth vs experience. What Novak lacked in youth, he made up for by hitting bigger fh, going into Raz's weapons and daring him to go toe to toe. Raz is not used to it and lack of experience did him int the end. Experience wins as Nole worked very hard to go at least somewhat closer on the youth part.
 

nolefam_2024

Talk Tennis Guru
Maybe but at the end of the day if he’s truly great now he would have been ready. Djokovic is 36 and should not be winning on a grinders surface. It’s sad that he will only rise to the top because of Djokovic retiring.
Yes that's true. Because he would probably lose in Wimbledon if they meet and Australia Nole is epic.
 

T007

Hall of Fame
Alex Corretja was giving some insight into the behind the scenes with Alcaraz after he won the quarters. Apparently Ferrero was struggling to contain Carlos' energy, CA has basically worked himself up too much regarding the long overdue match. Alex said he spoke to Carlos after the demolition of Tsitsipas about how he is feeling, and was concerned when Carlos said that he is already thinking about Djokovic and wants to play the match right now. Alex looked at Ferrero almost concerned that Alcaraz was expending too much energy getting amped up this far out from the match. Ferrero also later told Alex, that Alcaraz couldn't wait to get onto the courts the very next morning and wanted to play a match straight away, he was insisting on it.

I think the whole moment got to him and he psyched himself out, draining himself of a lot of emotional energy due to being so high strung. The question was about who was the real number one, it was not just about who would get to the RG final, the fact these two had owned the tour almost parallel to each other and never played was a situation that we had never ever seen before...the top two guys would meet more often than not. Djokovic won Wimbledon, Alcaraz won USO, Djokovic wins YEC, Alcaraz wins year ending number one, Djokovi wins AO, Alcaraz wins IW and Madrid....the will they won't they narrative played on CA's mind, and when it finally happened, he got too out of control.

Add to this mind games, Djokovic did that celebration after winning at AO which was a clear calling out of CA, who has the tattoo with the very saying...so CA sends out a tweet with that before the match.

The match in the first two sets was brutal, but CA was going at 100% on virtually everything, and his body which was already running on adrenaline since Tuesday started to give out on him. It is why you saw Ferrero telling him to calm down, he simply couldn't control himself....a huge learning curve and experience for him to take from this. Add to this Novak came with a clear game plan and was planning to peak for CA from the start, and the massive let down happened.
Not playing in hot and humid days probably made him cramp after 2 hrs. On that day it was 31 C one of the hottest days in Paris. Which gives me an indication that he will struggle in AO too.
 

Silverbullet96

Hall of Fame
Majoriti of Fed fans hate Djokovic, which coresponds with crowd booing him almost every single tournament. They simply can't accept the fact that Djokovic surpassed Federer in every single stat except in popularity which is irrelevant cause 20 years from now no one will remember how many fans loved him, but what records he holds.
Very insightful comment about the topic of the thread.
 

CoolCoolCool

Hall of Fame
No!!

Alcacraz does not have the astrology to be a threat to Djokovic - the way Rafa was to Fed, Djoko to Rafa, Stan to Djoko, Seles to Graf, etc. He doesn't have it. The players who have it are lazy little girls, poodles in tutus - Stefanos Tsitsipas, Daniil Medvedev.

Djokovic is a Gemini w/ Mars in Cancer, these are his poles. Alcaraz is Taurus-Aquarius. There is no connection here.
Understandable. Have a great day.
 

Silverbullet96

Hall of Fame
He will have more chances to redeem himself but he must do so sooner or else the rest of his career will have an asterisk.
Everybody's career has an asterisk by that logic. Djokovic's career has an asterisk since he didn't face Sampras or Laver. It's not like Alcaraz is anywhere close to peak age right now.

I think the hype, ego, and writing off Novak as some old washed up man is what hurt Alcaraz and his fans

Novak was the favorite to win the moment he showed up, not Alcaraz

Hell, Alcaraz isn’t even a dark horse at this point, rather just a spoiled kid

His inexperience and immaturity consumed him, and we have to face it; he’s no Nadal
Looks like you're projecting some radical fan's attitudes on Alcaraz and Alcaraz himself bothered you quite a bit, I honestly didn't even see anyone calling Djokovic something like a "washed up old man" and writing him off other than maybe Sampras-Bruguera.

He dominated most of the clay season... Djokovic has been phoning it in since AO and is just peaking for slams now and using Masters as a warm up tournament and the sets Djoker won he won convincingly.. I think the excuses by the pundits have to stop because there is no excuse for Alcaraz. He was just picked apart by Djokovic like buzzard to a roadkill. They didn't play for a year? I don't care if they never played. Hes 20 and playing solid clay tennis and the other guy is 36 just using this tour as a practice session and not playing a packed tennis schedule any longer
All your posts are basically "Do NextGen even lift bro ?"

So many damn excuses
How many are you seeing ? There's only been one this whole time.
 

Silverbullet96

Hall of Fame
I guess this loss humanizes Alcaraz quite hard. A week ago the thought wouldn't have even come across anyone's mind that he would get this anxious about a match that he'd get a full body cramp and turn into a walkover. A lot of people were thinking of him just like a high level brainless Tennis machine who never gets nervous.

This was his first real human moment. He has a mind.
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
Hasn’t surpassed him in Wimbledons yet and the reality is his career only really took off when Federer and Nadal declined. Federer beat him at 3 straight US Opens while he was still in his prime. It was only when Federer got old did Djokovic turn the tide.
The Fedovic rivalry has always been close. Fed won the first 4 matches against teenage Djokovic but after that they split the following 20 matches
 

arvind13

Professional
Which is why Roger was winning slams into his late thirties. Today, 30 is not the same as it was 20 or more years ago for the often stated reasons.
He won 4 slams after he turned 30. 16 slams before. Yeah not in his prime. @abmk what is up with these idiotic comments. Anyone with a brain knows that federer’s prime was 2004-2007, 2004-2009 if we are really generous. Yes players at 30 are fitter today than previous generations, but still not in their prime. 2011-2012 federer there was a decline from his 2004-2007 days
 

weakera

Talk Tennis Guru
Carlos is heads and shoulders above anyone else,

Is he though?

2dmk14.jpg
 

Krish0608

G.O.A.T.
Alcaraz's career is not going to have an asterisk just because he lost a slam semi against ancient Djokovic. If he goes on to win 14 slams, nobody will remember or mention a loss early in his career. Sampras isn't criticized for losing to teenage Roger at Wimbledon.
It’s the reverse though. Teenage Federer is still remembered for beating Sampras at W. This was Alcaraz’s opportunity to take the baton from the predecessors. He blew it.
 

weakera

Talk Tennis Guru
I guess this loss humanizes Alcaraz quite hard. A week ago the thought wouldn't have even come across anyone's mind that he would get this anxious about a match that he'd get a full body cramp and turn into a walkover. A lot of people were thinking of him just like a high level brainless Tennis machine who never gets nervous.

This was his first real human moment. He has a mind.

It's amazing how people forgot that he lost to... *checks notes*... Fabian Marozsan, about 5 minutes ago.
 

Hansen

Professional
everybody acts as if djokovic completely outplayed him. he brought his absolute a game, which shocked alcaraz in the beginning, and the result after 2 sets was still 1-1. if anything djokovic looked more exhausted at the beginning of the third, and neither of them was the clear favorite at that point. with the start of the cramps the match was over. i personally guessed djokovic would win, but the match after two sets was completely open, and alcaraz wasn‘t physically exhausted at that point, but his body let him down (should have managed his energy better, a lesson to learn). but this total lack of assessing the match correctly from some posters is typical unfortunately. at best its because they are haters or fanboys, at worst they just have no clue about tennis.
 
Hasn’t surpassed him in Wimbledons yet and the reality is his career only really took off when Federer and Nadal declined. Federer beat him at 3 straight US Opens while he was still in his prime. It was only when Federer got old did Djokovic turn the tide.
LOL
Djokovic was the leading guy in 2011 and already beat Federer at US Open 2010 and AO 2008
At the start of 2011:
Federer was 29 years old = „Federer got old“
Rafa was 24 years old = „Rafa declined“
 

tex123

Hall of Fame
Alex Corretja was giving some insight into the behind the scenes with Alcaraz after he won the quarters. Apparently Ferrero was struggling to contain Carlos' energy, CA has basically worked himself up too much regarding the long overdue match. Alex said he spoke to Carlos after the demolition of Tsitsipas about how he is feeling, and was concerned when Carlos said that he is already thinking about Djokovic and wants to play the match right now. Alex looked at Ferrero almost concerned that Alcaraz was expending too much energy getting amped up this far out from the match. Ferrero also later told Alex, that Alcaraz couldn't wait to get onto the courts the very next morning and wanted to play a match straight away, he was insisting on it.

I think the whole moment got to him and he psyched himself out, draining himself of a lot of emotional energy due to being so high strung. The question was about who was the real number one, it was not just about who would get to the RG final, the fact these two had owned the tour almost parallel to each other and never played was a situation that we had never ever seen before...the top two guys would meet more often than not. Djokovic won Wimbledon, Alcaraz won USO, Djokovic wins YEC, Alcaraz wins year ending number one, Djokovi wins AO, Alcaraz wins IW and Madrid....the will they won't they narrative played on CA's mind, and when it finally happened, he got too out of control.

Add to this mind games, Djokovic did that celebration after winning at AO which was a clear calling out of CA, who has the tattoo with the very saying...so CA sends out a tweet with that before the match.

The match in the first two sets was brutal, but CA was going at 100% on virtually everything, and his body which was already running on adrenaline since Tuesday started to give out on him. It is why you saw Ferrero telling him to calm down, he simply couldn't control himself....a huge learning curve and experience for him to take from this. Add to this Novak came with a clear game plan and was planning to peak for CA from the start, and the massive let down happened.
So, he should've talked to Tsitsipas and got some melatonin. Or a nap maybe.
 

arjuna_

New User
Nole is a cunning, calculating guy. Do you think he ducks Carlos a bit at the Masters between now and the US Open? Tactical "losses" to avoid giving him the advantage of seeing his game match up directly with Carlitos so that he can figure things out? Or if they do meet sort of halfassing it a bit and not show his true A game?
 
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Omega_7000

Legend
He was out-gamed.

For the first two sets, Alcaraz was redlining full throttle with his legs to run 100% for every drop shot and corner blast, while Djokovic was calmly directing traffic and coasting forward to reach the tough drops.

Then after set 2, Djokovic goes inside and takes a cool shower, cools his body down, drinks a half-gallon of electrolytes. and refreshes into a fresh kit.

Meanwhile, Carlos is out basking in the scorching sun and dancing giddily in his chair for 5 minutes, thinking he has the momentum.

Two games later his body tapped out.

This is BS. Djokovic was running just as much but he seems to be fitter than all the 20 something players who are supposed to be in their physical primes.
 

travlerajm

Talk Tennis Guru
This is BS. Djokovic was running just as much but he seems to be fitter than all the 20 something players who are supposed to be in their physical primes.
But Djokovic didn’t look like he was exerting much when hitting the ball… letting his high sw racquet do the work… while Carlos was exploding into every shot with maximum exertion due to having a light racquet.
 

jimjam

Professional
He dominated most of the clay season... Djokovic has been phoning it in since AO and is just peaking for slams now and using Masters as a warm up tournament and the sets Djoker won he won convincingly.. I think the excuses by the pundits have to stop because there is no excuse for Alcaraz. He was just picked apart by Djokovic like buzzard to a roadkill. They didn't play for a year? I don't care if they never played. Hes 20 and playing solid clay tennis and the other guy is 36 just using this tour as a practice session and not playing a packed tennis schedule any longer

This is a flawed analysis. They were tied at 1-1 and Alcaraz was starting to win a larger percentage of the points.

There is no excuse here. Djokovic won fair and square, but saying Alcaraz got "picked apart" is a delusion which will meet reality if they play again several times this year.

Great analysis btw Hitman
 

RelentlessAttack

Hall of Fame
One other thing to add too is Alcaraz was trying to chase down everything. After Djokovic got settled in the match, he started doing what we've seen him do so many times before when there is a powerful threat in his presence. He was absorbing everything, and redirecting with high acceleration into the corners. Alcaraz has never played this type of intensity in a BO5 and really only Djokovic and Nadal can do that you on a physical level.

I do think it was more emotional though. He poured everything he had into that 2nd set to win it and they were just a set all, so there was still so much more going to be required to win it. He wasn't quite prepared but this was a learning experience for him for sure. He's going to know what to expect next time.

In the early years, the big 3 made each other (and the rest of their age cohort really) better and smarter, forged each other through all of those epic battles. Alcaraz never faced a player like Djokovic in a slam before. If he stays the course and stays healthy, he will be better off for having gotten the chance to see a flash of what the big 3 can do, even closer to the end of a career. He knows now that there are many areas in which he needs to improve.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
In the early years, the big 3 made each other (and the rest of their age cohort really) better and smarter, forged each other through all of those epic battles. Alcaraz never faced a player like Djokovic in a slam before. If he stays the course and stays healthy, he will be better off for having gotten the chance to see a flash of what the big 3 can do, even closer to the end of a career. He knows now that there are many areas in which he needs to improve.
Yes it's a whole other ballgame facing a big 3 player at the Slam level because of the intensity and how they are coming at you point after point. The mental and emotional energy required to hang with that and try to beat them cannot be underestimated. Alcaraz learned that lesson this RG but he will study that match, what went wrong and be better prepared for Djokovic in the future. Most players lost their 1st matches when they played a big 3 member in a Slam.
 

RelentlessAttack

Hall of Fame
Yes it's a whole other ballgame facing a big 3 player at the Slam level because of the intensity and how they are coming at you point after point. The mental and emotional energy required to hang with that and try to beat them cannot be underestimated. Alcaraz learned that lesson this RG but he will study that match, what went wrong and be better prepared for Djokovic in the future. Most players lost their 1st matches when they played a big 3 member in a Slam.

For sure, if we don’t want to place Carlos as a big 3 level talent prematurely, let’s take Delpo for example. Bageled by Roger in Australia, pushed him to 5 at RG, and finally dethroned him at the US Open. Alcaraz needs to develop the kind of mental strength and relentless persistence that was required to succeed through all those wars of the 2007-2013 period. And he’s got a long way to go tactically, but he can learn that
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
For sure, if we don’t want to place Carlos as a big 3 level talent prematurely, let’s take Delpo for example. Bageled by Roger in Australia, pushed him to 5 at RG, and finally dethroned him at the US Open. Alcaraz needs to develop the kind of mental strength and relentless persistence that was required to succeed through all those wars of the 2007-2013 period. And he’s got a long way to go tactically, but he can learn that
Yea he will have to develop into a better player tactically because trying to hit through an in form Djokovic as two handed righty is not going to bring you much success. These are things he will learn and he's already on the right track because he's just 20 already and achieved a lot, and is beating most of the top players consistently.
 

onyxrose81

Hall of Fame
Nole is a cunning, calculating guy. Do you think he ducks Carlos a bit at the Masters between now and the US Open? Tactical "losses" to avoid giving him the advantage of seeing his game match up directly with Carlitos so that he can figure things out? Or if they do meet sort of halfassing it a bit and not show his true A game?

He never ducked Fedal, he’s not going to duck Alcaraz. Novak doesn’t play a full schedule and there’s not much he plays between Wimbledon and USO. He’ll play one of the Masters (probably Cincy) and USO.
 

arjuna_

New User
He never ducked Fedal, he’s not going to duck Alcaraz. Novak doesn’t play a full schedule and there’s not much he plays between Wimbledon and USO. He’ll play one of the Masters (probably Cincy) and USO.
Yeah I don't think he NEEDS to duck him. But he played an older Fedal. Now he is the old guy that has to conserve himself a bit and keep any sort of edge he can for as long as he can. I think this year he will play North American masters as much as he can since he's not been allowed to play here. He will be motivated to win. If he gets a 3rd Cincy then he almost has 3 Golden Masters (would be missing Monte Carlo which he has recently been terrible at).
 

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
Narrator: That was not the reality.

He was 8-8 in finals when Nadal was at his best and Federer was still playing good tennis. He was 0-3 against Federer at the US Open and got straight setted in Australia by Federer playing great tennis in 2007. Beating jokes like Tsitsipas, Kyrgios, Ruud etc. doesn’t just erase these losses. Do you think the current Novak beats an 05 Federer? Peak play plays a huge factor in who’s the best.
 

Phoenix*

Professional
He was 8-8 in finals when Nadal was at his best and Federer was still playing good tennis. He was 0-3 against Federer at the US Open and got straight setted in Australia by Federer playing great tennis in 2007. Beating jokes like Tsitsipas, Kyrgios, Ruud etc. doesn’t just erase these losses. Do you think the current Novak beats an 05 Federer? Peak play plays a huge factor in who’s the best.
lol

 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
This match proves why it is so hard to beat Djokovic and Nadal at Slams and especially in Slam semis and finals. It is their ‘aura’ as Big 3 members with dominant 22-Slam career records.

Alcaraz had the game to hang with Djokovic and split sets. But he had amped up his nervous energy prior to the match so much about the prospect of taking down the ‘aura’ of Djokovic in a Slam that he got cramps. With other players, they get the lead of a set or even two sets at a Slam, then start thinking about breaking down the ‘aura’ of Djokovic or Nadal in a Slam and are toast after that.

‘The aura, the aura’ must seem like ‘The horror, the horror’.

 

BauerAlmeida

Hall of Fame
He was 8-8 in finals when Nadal was at his best and Federer was still playing good tennis. He was 0-3 against Federer at the US Open and got straight setted in Australia by Federer playing great tennis in 2007. Beating jokes like Tsitsipas, Kyrgios, Ruud etc. doesn’t just erase these losses. Do you think the current Novak beats an 05 Federer? Peak play plays a huge factor in who’s the best.

He was 10-1 vs Fedal in 2011 when they were 29/30 and 24/25.

Straight setted in Australia? You mean when he was 19 and outside the top 10? What about Montreal that year? He was 0-3 vs Federer? What about what happened the following two years?

"When Nadal was at his best". He was consistently winning slams until last year.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
...Ferrero was struggling to contain Carlos' energy, CA has basically worked himself up too much regarding the long overdue match. Alex said he spoke to Carlos after the demolition of Tsitsipas about how he is feeling, and was concerned when Carlos said that he is already thinking about Djokovic and wants to play the match right now. Alex looked at Ferrero almost concerned that Alcaraz was expending too much energy getting amped up this far out from the match. Ferrero also later told Alex, that Alcaraz couldn't wait to get onto the courts the very next morning and wanted to play a match straight away, he was insisting on it.

I think it is a positive and something to work on. I've said many times, the biggest problem with the lost generation against the big 3 is they gave them too much respect and mentally allowed that to diminish their belief they deserved to win, or should be beating them. Alcz has all the confidence (not cockiness) that he can beat the best and be the best. But as a young player, as expectation of that starts, so do the challenges of being able to moderate that beleif/energy as they talk about. The truth is though, it happens to all kinds of players, rec to pros, old and young, and BJK nailed it saying that pressure is a privilege. In that, you have to earn it and then respect/embrace it to overcome it.

I am very confident Alcz and his team will frame this well and build on what is already a solid mindset and belief. Alcz has a few decades of play to and experience it.
 
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