Povl Carstensen
Legend
Empathy is certainly important in this world. Without it, how would you navigate? I am just stressing that it is Naomis decision to go left or right, and obviously she is in a better place to make that decision than you.
Osaka splits from coach
- Thread starter George Turner
- Start date
aditya123
Hall of Fame
I still stick to the comment I made, lets see if she wins any slam in the next year!!! Hopefully she proves me wrong
EkVraNaamEnVan
New User
NaomiKonjuhPotapova
G.O.A.T.
OMG YES!
I have a crush with daddy Fisette. About time he dumped Vika.
Edit: Vika might retire from the sport.
I have a crush with daddy Fisette. About time he dumped Vika.
Edit: Vika might retire from the sport.
helixx
Hall of Fame
So mean! Vika deserved the bestOMG YES!
I have a crush with daddy Fisette. About time he dumped Vika.
Edit: Vika might retire from the sport.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Cry Her A River,
aditya123
Hall of Fame
You saw the result now???? Your hopes aged very well
. Back to where she belongs now
Nadal_Django
Legend
He made a mess of her career. A big mess.
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
Number 9 in the world? Back to where she belongs? Still in the top 10? What an idiotic post from you, how embarrassing.You saw the result now???? Your hopes aged very well
aditya123
Hall of Fame
No 1 to no 9 in a year is very good na.. flopping at slams you previously won is also very encouraging right??? Your stupidity and ignorance is utterly visible here.
aditya123
Hall of Fame
Embarassment is having fans like you wgo dont understand tennis properly and yet show off as if they know everything about the sport
Aussie Darcy
Bionic Poster
You think she would have defended her titles with Sasha? Sasha couldn’t even take Yastremska into the 3R. Assuming that everything she accomplished was thanks to him is a joke. She went on a 10 match winning streak to finish 2019 without him, that’s pretty damn encouraging i’d say.
aditya123
Hall of Fame
Why dont you look at the previous posts carefully . I never said the results are due to her coach, infact what I said is I think she has a problem in dealing with her coaches and the problem must be with her somewhere!!! You attached her good results to my post and am simply reciprocating here.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
You don't know if Sasha had a problem dealing with her.
aditya123
Hall of Fame
We never know 100%. But based on what we see, read and understand we post some of our views here.
Fedinkum
Legend
Darren Cahill: “Hold my Aussie beer.”
BGod
G.O.A.T.
Love how this thread gets bumped every time Osaka loses in a Slam or a major tournament for that matter.
I mean sure, it's only been 4 Slams since but she hasn't come anywhere close to winning. No Final, Semi or even a Quarter. And she made it past the Quarters of a Masters event only once and winning it to her credit. But she needs Slams. At this point whether or not her coach was necessarily great it's impossible to discount her winning back to back Slams and then after the split she's got 0 Quarters.
I mean sure, it's only been 4 Slams since but she hasn't come anywhere close to winning. No Final, Semi or even a Quarter. And she made it past the Quarters of a Masters event only once and winning it to her credit. But she needs Slams. At this point whether or not her coach was necessarily great it's impossible to discount her winning back to back Slams and then after the split she's got 0 Quarters.
wangs78
Legend
Or it could be that the public/media backlash and criticism has proven to be an insurmountable distraction for her. Not everyone handles fame and high expectations well. She was never the kind of person who was being groomed for superstardom and it kind of fell onto her unexpectedly so totally possible that she doesn’t do well in the spotlight.
BGod
G.O.A.T.
If the gap between her USO and AO wins wasn't considerable I could see this more prominently. But there was a significant gap not just with time but rest given the off-season. I mean, she won Indian Wells at the beginning of 2018 too so after the USO would have been when she could fall flat but it happened after Bajin. And again, 0 Slam Quarters even. That's too big a mark that's just going to grow the longer she goes without repeating her success. Fair or not, true or not, it's going to be the easy play.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
Fully agree. Look, the rate of turnover in the WTA is very high with potential slam winners breaking through every year. Each of these in turn will have to keep raising their game if they want to STAY at the top. If you look at the common factor between all the recent two slam wonders we have had, it is that they did not fix the little chinks in their game and decided what worked in the slam winning tournament will work every time. Osaka's movement is not the greatest, her net game remains shaky and even her returns aren't the best. She is riding heavily on her forehand and it shows. She tried to simply hit Gauff off the court and that failed spectacularly. Putting this together with her past snarky comments about Sasha, I would infer that for all her introversion, she is either not a good listener or stubborn or both. If you look at Serena's game when she won USO 99 and later when she achieved her first straight slam, she had definitely improved a lot. And she kept improving at least up to 2008 or so. Federer kept improving through his peak years even when he was winning nearly everything (except clay of course). Without that drive to improve, Osaka's career will stall. I am not calling her lazy and I am sure she spends a lot of time practicing. But practice that re-engineers your game to stave off challenges from opponents is what she needs and I don't see that she is doing that so far. She is playing the same game that she did in 2018 when she first made a splash at the US hard court swing (IW etc).
Edit : Not counting Halep among the two slam wonders because she is a genuine contender for a third slam and maybe more in future. Two slam wonders imo are those whose careers kinda stalled after the second slam.. Osaka is in that zone and needs to get out of it fast.
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Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
You can take a horse to the water but.. Difficult to make a ballbasher win in this field so what he does with Yastremska is not the yardstick. Yes, it is quite possible, even likely that he is no genius and just a pretty average coach. But do tell me how many tier 1 greats have you heard publicly slagging the coach in a presser? Not talking heat of the moment yelling like Murray but telling all the world that your coach is useless. Did Fed do it? Did Serena throw Pat under the bus even during the 2018 USO fiasco? Nope. Y'all erupted when Djokovic appeared to have been less than 100% superlative when he announced his parting of ways with Becker but somehow Osaka gets to tell the world that Sasha's tips are useless or common knowledge? It's not about her being young. Great champions already have a mindset that shuts out the noise and they understand seeding friction with the coach is not going to help matters so they shut up and play. Now who else throws his coach under the bus unrepentantly? Zverev, that's who. And how many slams has he won? Zilch. Look, the coach doesn't have to win a single match so the onus finally lies on the player to get the most out of whoever they work with.
aditya123
Hall of Fame
Wholistic analysis I would say!!! Those who improve will move along and those who don't will be left behind and that implies to everyone whether she is a Gs champion or an 1st round loser. She speaks a lot of bs in her interviews and I laugh at her stupid replies at times. She definitely doesn't have a top players iq who can survive without a proper coach. Better for her if she come back on track fast
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
Agree. I like her as a player so none of the above analysis is coming from a place of hate or anything. I would just hate to see another talented player throw it away after winning two slams. Why stop there, why not 10-15-20 slams?
aditya123
Hall of Fame
Hmmm yeah plenty of players struck with 2 slams and Osaka is the latest.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Reach a goal and the top, hit the lottery and get comfortable.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
She said about the split something in the line of being happy was more important to her than winning. That's her prerogative. "She needs slams", relax/take it easy.
aditya123
Hall of Fame
Lottery?? you mean ad revenues????
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
If taking it easy means crashing out with a disastrous performance, fair dinkum. I mean, I wish I understood how that is supposed to make her happy.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
There are other things in life than winning, and she is no 4 in the world. It was guys like you I meant should take it easy.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
She didn't look happy at all after the loss. Had a polite smile on for the handshake but was shaking her head afterwards. If you're as good a player as that, it always hurts to play badly and especially on a grand slam stage with the world watching. I think Sasha was simply a victim of her struggles to handle the new found limelight.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Win two slams, get paid
wangs78
Legend
I don't disagree. Facts are facts, her results after her split with Baijin have been indisputably mediocre with few, if any, flashes of brilliance that suggest she can climb that mountain again. But my doubts about the impact of Baijin stem from the guy having nothing else on his resume to support his ability as a coach. If he is able to take another somewhat obscure player to even the top 5-10 I would be more likely to give him the benefit of the doubt that he had a meaningful contribution to Osaka's slam wins. So let's see how Yastremska does in the next couple of years.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Tennis players are not supposed to look happy after a loss. But that does not change what I wrote. Your last sentence is nothing but speculation, which ofcourse is ok to share on a forum.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
My point is she was confused. There's nothing wrong with having a drive to play better. She misdiagnosed the problem, which was the attention that a slam winner, especially a young player like her, receives. Maybe now that she has no slams left to defend, she can play better, hopefully.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
She has found out, what Serena already knows. Everyone brings their best against a slam winner. Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
Yes, at the point that she got rid of Sasha, I don't think she was mature enough to understand this. She's going to be chased as long as she is in the top five/ten because the field will see her as a threat. The only way to get THAT pressure off her back is to crash out like Bouchard and I am not sure she wants that. Anyway, guess she has Fissette in her box, so if she gives him a patient hearing, maybe good things will start to happen. It's too early in the partnership now.
kishnabe
Talk Tennis Guru
Not everyone defends their major titiles. Much less win their first 2 majors in a row.
What happened to Sampras after 1990 US Open. He didn't win his 2nd Major till 1993.
Osaka still in the upside. It not like she is out of the top 100 by failing to defend both her major wins.
Would not count her out to win another major in the next 5 years.
aditya123
Hall of Fame
Defending is difficult I would agree.. but failing to reach a qf in your past 4 slams?????. Is it such a difficult task???
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
Well, Sampras did flounder in 91 after winning USO, to that extent I agree with kishnabe. The difference is Osaka won AO in 2019, passing the sophomore test. Losing the trajectory completely since then, as you said, is what is alarming in her case. If we take Azarenka, she was at least going deep in slams after her first or second slams and lost tough matches to Masha/Serena in 2013. No shame in losing that way. She was not shambolic in the way Osaka was yesterday or at other slams.
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Again losing Sasha was not about winning/losing matches, as she herself said.
aditya123
Hall of Fame
Happiness is not about Sasha too..... did sasha tell her to stay gloom and depressed??? As @Dolgopolov85 said she misdiagnosed her problem
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Well if you think you know that better than her, theres not much I can do about it. Perhaps Osaka could tell you how your living is off.
aditya123
Hall of Fame
If Osaka had stated something like her split with the coach is due to lack of co-ordination, non achievement of results or due to lack of inputs, new ideas from coach or due to some differences then it would have been perfectly reasonable. But one of the reasons she stated is that she doesn't puts success above happiness which is pure bs...... Does any player in any sport hire a coach to provide him/her with happiness????? This leaves us with only 2 options either she is lying or she is not wise enough
Povl Carstensen
Legend
Maybe she just thinks a bit different than you and you just don't get it. To me, "she doesn't puts success above happiness which is pure bs" depicts a shallow way of thinking on your behalf. So people are different, you know?
aditya123
Hall of Fame
There are plethora of people and n number of mindsets these days which I cant deny... not Putting success above happiness is her choice and no one can question it but stating it a reason for her split is utterly dumb.. you may call me hallow but there a few things which don't change like you play a sport to win, you keep a coach for results and not for happiness and if Womens tennis has evolved into a new whole level where coaches are hired for happiness , I feel extremely sorry for WTA
