Nadal_Freak
Banned
VAMOS RAFA! Winning despite not playing your best tennis. Can't wait until clay season where everyone will be slipping and sliding except Rafa. 
Pacific Life Open - Nadal vs Tsonga round of 16 match
- Thread starter anointedone
- Start date
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
That was an outstanding match. Glad the Aussie Open is avenged. What a 3rd set BEASTATHON from Rafa!
M
Morrissey
Guest
It is ok to be American and to question their decisions, ignorance and arrogance. I hate that whole, "well if you ain't with us then you're with the terrorists and communists" garbage. That's a line to trick dumb people into agreeing and conforming with everything the government says and does. Having a mind of your own and questioning bad decisions is the most patriotic and sensible thing any citizen of a country can and should do.
People who say Tsonga had Nadal on his kness don't understand the excitement of watching Nadal play. MANY players have had RAfa on his knees - I've seen this situation so often with him - but its the fight back that makes him outstanding and the most incredible tennis player - he so reminds me of Borg
hyogen
Hall of Fame
so he purposely lets his opponents get him down like that so he can show off at how well he can come back in *a lot* (not all) cases? dude, this was just the Pacific Life Open. Tsonga's ability/confidence did not let him down in the QUARTERFINALS of a GRAND SLAM.
i admire Nadal for his fighting spirit. I LOVE him for keeping the French away from Federer. But it wasn't at all exciting to watch Nadal "come back" from 2-5 in the 3rd set. Tsonga mostly gave the match away due to his nerves.
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Shabazza
Legend
Word!!
Back to the topic:
The question is, can Nadal finally beat Blake? It's his best chance on a hardcourt. It's now or never, imo. I doubt, he'll meet him on clay or grass anytime soon.
DarthMaul
Professional
I agree with that. And I think that Kosovo is an artificial country that is about to become the heaven of drug dealers and guns trafficants.
D
Deleted member 3771
Guest
That Nadal is one entertainer. Thats what they payed to see.
PED
Legend
I think Nadal can take Blake. I think Tsonga had ALOT more weapons (especially his "liquid power" lol) to threaten Rafa with than Blake brings to the table. I just don't see James go for broke mentality working effectively for 3 sets against someone as competent as Rafa. It should be interesting to see; Blake seems to struggle against the very best. The surface should be somewhat neutral for both: a hard court favors Blake, but the slowness of that court keeps Rafa in the running. I can't wait.
my_forehand
Professional
No surprise there.
Fedace
Banned
Don't feel bad, in my area, there is NO fox sports network at all in our cable lineup so i get no coverage of PLO. i had to buy the Masters series TV.
A great win for Nadal, especially after being embarassed by Tsonga at the AO.
I do agree with those who say that Tsonga has way more weapons and a much better overall game than Blake. Tsonga is GS material, Blake isn't. Thus, it seems like if Nadal's playing well enough to beat Tsonga, he's playing well enough to beat Blake. Then again, Blake has a good record vs. Nadal on HC, although this is a slower higher-bouncing HC.
I do agree with those who say that Tsonga has way more weapons and a much better overall game than Blake. Tsonga is GS material, Blake isn't. Thus, it seems like if Nadal's playing well enough to beat Tsonga, he's playing well enough to beat Blake. Then again, Blake has a good record vs. Nadal on HC, although this is a slower higher-bouncing HC.
ninman
Hall of Fame
Blake beat Nadal in straight sets in the semi's of IW 2 years ago.
How ridiculous to assume that Nadal does this on purpose - ok I agree Tsonga is a good player but don't make excuses for his loss - this is the guy who beat Nadal in AO - so don't tell me it was nerves!!
hyogen
Hall of Fame
that's what i'm saying-- Rafa DOESN'T do this on purpose. there were plenty of nerves going on on his end also. he was broken several times as well. He just outlasted Tsonga, and at the end when Tsonga thought he had the match in his lap at 5-2, he lost some focus.
too bad this wasn't a best of 5 match... could have gone down as this years best match possibly :O
Nadal is the world no. 2, not Tsonga. You should keep this in mind.
Would you care to elaborate?
hyogen
Hall of Fame
yeah, i was speaking hypothetically - this was while the match was still going on.
if nadal loses he would have been crushed...he still IS crushed from being dominated by this upstart, Tsonga, in the QF of a GRAND SLAM.
if Tsonga had won, which he showed he could have done quite handily again, he would have built even more confidence.
obviously that didn't happen, but the fact remains that tsonga CRUSHED nadal in the QF of the AO2008. Nadal BARELY squeaked by to beat Tsonga.....a very small revenge for what Tsonga took away from him at the AO2008-- it could have been his first slam other than the French Open....was his perfect opportunity with Federer out of the picture.
like i've said though, I'm not a Rafa hater at all. I love him for keeping the french away from Fed. You gotta LOVE Tsonga's guts and heart though..don't you? He doesn't play like a timid no talent ass clown by just getting the ball back. He really goes for his shots. His run at the AO was simply magical
IvanAndreevich
Legend
Can you define "crushed"? Down and not trying to win, or just upset about the loss? Afraid to play him in the future? :|
Let's not forget who crushed who in USO 07. Besides, I am sure Rafa knows he is not there yet in his hard court game. There are plenty of people who can take him on HC. Like Blake, who I believe is not nearly as impressive as Tsonga.
You know something? Nadal also beat Tsonga at the USO in straight sets and it was just 6 months ago. So the facts are they played 3 times on hard courts and Nadal leads 2-1 (and that´s on Nadal´s worst surface). Now if they play on clay the next 3 times you will get a more balanced head to head ;-)
Tsonga goes 5-2 up!!!. the end is nigh Nadal fans!! lol
Agreed, very funny.
Causing_A_Racket
New User
Lol it's funny how people keep quoting me when at that moment in time no-one can disagree that it was an acurate statement, Nadal didn't win the match!!..Tsonga lost it, as i mentioned before in the very next set Jo didn't seem remotely bothered with challenging Nadal's serve to win the match and was more concerned about serving it out, Rafa's meant to be number two in the world and yet he was hanging on for dear life!!, Jo had more than enough chances to win that match and only has himself to blame, but he's certainly still as talented as anyone on the tour.
M
Morrissey
Guest
Uh no. Nadal won the match, Tsonga lost. Remember that. If Tsonga won he wouldn't be on that plane to Miami right now instead of playing Blake tonight. Nadal won in 3 sets, denial isn't just a river in Egypt. What you didn't realize was the end was near for Tsonga too.
PED
Legend
Rafa's number 2 in the world because he always holds on for dear life. Even on day when he was not playing his best or on his best surface, Rafa came away with the "w". It doesn't matter how it happened, just that it happened. I think Tsonga is a tremendous talent but let's see him win a few titles (big ones) first and don't forget he's older than Rafa.
Causing_A_Racket
New User
Try understanding the concept before making idle comments, of course Nadal won the match but there can be no doubt that jo handed it to him, he messed up on the tie breaker in the second set and messed up when 5-2 up and serving for the match in the 3rd, thus he gave the match away that cannot be disputed.
Causing_A_Racket
New User
Nadal is three years older than Donald and he certainly didn't look "miles ahead" in the second set when they played, three years more in development was always gonna tell but only a hater would claim Donald didn't give Rafa a tough time in many stages of that match,
And also Tsonga is only one year older than Rafa and has played less because of injuries!!, so that's hardly a big difference in age.
Causing_A_Racket
New User
But it wasn't convincing and was very lucky, most people would agree that Jo SHOULD have won the match and let himself down, in my opinion it was Jo's sloppy play more than Rafa's ability that won the match and i'm sure many would concur.
Could anyone look at that match and imply that Rafa is any better than Jo?.. i certainly couldn't see that evidence despite the rankings.
PED
Legend
I just came back from the ATP site. Man I looked forever but I couldn't find the column that said "should have won". They only have those stupid old win and lose ones. The thing is that, yes I'm happy rafa won, but if he had lost then I would be gracious enough to admit that tsonga beat him and deserved it. Tsonga is a great player and it's nice to have a new face on the tour who can win (like the djoker) but love him or hate him, Rafa is a great 3 time GS champion who is going to try and win by any means necessary.
M
Morrissey
Guest
I understood very well your "concept". You refused to accept that Nadal won and that Tsonga lost so you say things like "oh, Nadal didn't win, Tsonga gave it away." that. Tsonga didn't give anything away, Nadal stayed tough and took it as only he can. But your point in that post was to not give Nadal any credit and just s!ag Tsonga off at all costs for not beating a player you dislike in Nadal. Yep, I understood it well.
M
Morrissey
Guest
Not miles ahead? Nadal won his first slam at 18 and beat Federer in the process. DY is still trying to get 2 wins in a row on a regular basis. I see your type all the time, the angry type who refuses to give credit to Nadal simply because you hate the guy. It's fine, vent your anger. But you still look stupid in the process.
They quote you because:
1-You were wrong.
2-You were not graceful saying it.
And yes, Nadal won the match. It´s not a coincidence that he usually wins in close matches. He is well known for his mental strength.
Nadal wasted more break point chances than Tsonga during the match so he could have won earlier if he had taken those chances (he was leading 3-1 in the 1st set tie-break and lost it, had set point at 6-5 in the 2nd set but it went to the tie-break, had some break point chances early in the 3rd set and missed them) and he kept fighting to win 5 games in a row. Nadal totally deserved the win.
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M
Morrissey
Guest
The talented Tsonga has ZERO titles and Nadal has 23 titles, 3 slams and 9 Masters. So WHO won the match huh?
Causing_A_Racket
New User
Is it not possible for someone to be extremely lucky now? :-? , "deserved" would have seen Rafa show true class and not have to rely on Jo messing up, but that simply wasn't the case, he was very lucky and many have suggested so, you have to look at the situation realistically and see that Jo was 5-2 up and until then was consistantly serving well, couple that with the silly double faults he made to go 6-5 down and the picture becomes clear.
PED
Legend
To use your logic, Rafa would have been the Wimby champ in 07 but he "gave" it away. It's all part of winning-Jo should have kept his nerve but he didn't. Rafa did and he won.
Causing_A_Racket
New User
Firstly can you find me any evidence that suggest's i "hate" Rafa please?.. instead of making frivolous unfounded remarks!!, i call the game how i see it, yes Rafa was tough out there but he was also LUCKY, what's wrong with telling the truth?.. should everyone kiss his ass because he managed to win a match where his opponant let him off the hook?.. i don't think so, and furthermore i'm not "slagging" Jo off as i actually admire the mans game and personality on the courte.
hyogen
Hall of Fame
you fail to realize that Tsonga made Nadal look stupid in the process of beating him VERY HANDILY at the AO2008... stop hanging on nadal's nuts so much.. who's hating on Nadal? we like Nadal, but Tsonga could have very well beaten him this time around AGAIN. you fail to realize Tsonga's career has been plagued with many injuries for the past couple years..
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Causing_A_Racket
New User
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Wow Nadal haters are just ridiculous... mad bc no-one else would have came back like that. Give the guy some credit jeeze...
Causing_A_Racket
New User
Donald got to the quaters at Memphis and lost a close match and now he's beaten the likes of Lopez who had just appeared in a final with Roddick, the kid is improving and not everyone excells at 18, not even Fed so your logic doesn't make sense, you can continue to to spout your unfactual drivel and i'll continue to offer the facts thank you very much.
Causing_A_Racket
New User
I don't need to be "graceful" i'd rather be honest, and the honest analysis is Rafa got lucky, it's that simple, but it seems the Rafa fans are blind to the reality of yesterday's match, as if Nadal outplayed Tsonga but unfortunately found himself facing defeat and then "fought back", when the truth is Jo beat himself at the end of the day.
Lionheart
Rookie
Lol I love all these discussions on who´s the better player...
Tsonga won one time, Nadal won another...how can this make someone rage so much...the rankings are there so that people can check who are the better players, tennis is a game of match ups and at the pro level anyone can win on any given day, the different conditions allow that to happen even when a lower ranked player faces a better ranked one.
The point is, the guys who can make consistant results are the better players and since Tsonga is just appearing at this level, at the moment, the better one is Nadal(rankings, experience etc).
No need to get angry, and even worse, with people you don´t know, INTERNET isn´t a serious business
Tsonga won one time, Nadal won another...how can this make someone rage so much...the rankings are there so that people can check who are the better players, tennis is a game of match ups and at the pro level anyone can win on any given day, the different conditions allow that to happen even when a lower ranked player faces a better ranked one.
The point is, the guys who can make consistant results are the better players and since Tsonga is just appearing at this level, at the moment, the better one is Nadal(rankings, experience etc).
No need to get angry, and even worse, with people you don´t know, INTERNET isn´t a serious business
5-2 is the most deceptive score in tennis when it only involves one break, as was the case here. The guy ahead (and the public) feel it is so close. And yet, if your opponent holds serve, you only have one chance to serve it out (at 5-3). So of course you get a bit tight, give the break back, then your opponent holds again -- and next thing you know it's 5-5. The lead is gone, the kingdom that felt so close a few minutes ago is no longer one step away. Big psychological blow.
I would say that the most frequent breaks of serve occur when a player is serving for the match, leading by one break. No player would just give up because they are one break down. Much less a guy like Nadal.
As far as mistakes, they both made a few more than they should have, but Tsonga's game, relying as it does on going for bigh shots pretty quickly, is more prone to errors. I didn't see any particular evidence of a major "choke". Nadal just wouldn't go away. Nor do I think that the concept of "choke" should be used in any exculpatory way whatsoever for losing. Everybody gets tight, and controlling your nerves is an integral part of the game. If you can't do it, don't blame it on a character called "Choke".
But again, I didn't think that Tsonga was particularly tight. They were both tight.
Rafael_Nadal_6257
Semi-Pro
The thing is that when a lot of people see Tsonga rip a winner, they say he is overpowering Nadal, and when Tsonga somehow misses it when he pulls the trigger, they say that Tsonga is choking...
But what Tsonga knows is that to consistently win points against Nadal, he has to try to dominate from the very beginning with his play, and to try not to let Nadal 'play' at all. Tsonga has to and should risk this, as it is his way of playing tennis and it is better than camping at the baseline and trading shots with Nadal, which is to Nadal's advantage with his huge topspin groundstrokes...I think and believe that Tsonga's whole strategy was to not let Nadal play and completely control the points, which made him pull the trigger every single time he saw the smallest opportunity. Nadal pulled ahead in the third set because he began to 'play' more and he is very good at the mental part of tennis, which allowed him to pull ahead and make a huge comeback. Kudos to both players. Just my take on the match.
Edit: Some of this I got from Benhur's post on another thread, which I agree with...
But what Tsonga knows is that to consistently win points against Nadal, he has to try to dominate from the very beginning with his play, and to try not to let Nadal 'play' at all. Tsonga has to and should risk this, as it is his way of playing tennis and it is better than camping at the baseline and trading shots with Nadal, which is to Nadal's advantage with his huge topspin groundstrokes...I think and believe that Tsonga's whole strategy was to not let Nadal play and completely control the points, which made him pull the trigger every single time he saw the smallest opportunity. Nadal pulled ahead in the third set because he began to 'play' more and he is very good at the mental part of tennis, which allowed him to pull ahead and make a huge comeback. Kudos to both players. Just my take on the match.
Edit: Some of this I got from Benhur's post on another thread, which I agree with...
hyogen
Hall of Fame
dude, yeah I give kudos to Nadal for winning the match and staying in it...AND for all his GS wins and titles. I love the guy--he keeps Federer from being the greatest of all time.
but to say Nadal pulled ahead? Dude, Tsonga is the one who pulled ahead. 5-2. He had the win, but he sat on his lead, which oftentimes players do. To think Nadal didn't get lucky at all to win this match is just.......foolish.
Nadal didn't pull ahead. Tsonga sat on his lead, lost his focus, and let the match slip through his fingers.
Nadal_Freak
Banned
Nadal was the better player. Screw all of you who think otherwise. Tsonga was lucky to win that first set. Nadal won more points in that match to prove my point. Go watch reruns of Federer.
