Parents and Coaches

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Is that how you interact with your attorney too? Do you organize the materials on his/her desk so he/she can be more efficient with your time?

No, because I don't know how he wants his materials organized or even IF he wants them re-organized.

OTOH, every coach is going to want the balls picked up; by whom is the issue.

Following your analogy, if I was paying my attorney $200/hr, I would be very unhappy if he spent 5 minutes re-organizing the materials on his desk after every topic discussed.

You then must tell his secretary to hold any calls too. Even if having kids pick up balls is so the coach can get a drink of water, you got some balls (pun intended) telling him how to run the class more efficiently. Doesn't the coach have a right on a hot day to hydrate, maybe even handle a few of the pushier parents on their dole, rather than after the lesson when he/she is trying to get the next lesson started. I've seen all of this behavior before myself. You have no idea what it's like to teach 10-12 hours in a day. I used to teach at a tennis club but I would have gladly fired you as a client. Go hire some schmuck that needs you. I had more clients than I could handle. I'll add, if you're paying $160 an hour for your kids instruction, I hope you hired Paul Annacone or Brad Gilbert. But I know you didn't hire anyone like them, who might actually know what's best for your son's development, because a good coach knows to layout the expectations for parents and won't tolerate you or your kid pulling this kind of stuff. No offense.

You're viewing it from a very different perspective from what I had imagined. Where I see efficiency, you see lack of respect and interfering with the coach. It never occurred to me that helping to pick up balls would be viewed that way but I stand corrected.

 

[RiverRat]

You're viewing it from a very different perspective from what I had imagined. Where I see efficiency, you see lack of respect and interfering with the coach. It never occurred to me that helping to pick up balls would be viewed that way but I stand corrected.

You're not corrected, just broadened to another perspective. If you want a ball machine, you can always rent one and continue to fill it for your kid. As a former instructor and a former junior instructee, I can say that, in both cases, I valued time in my lessons talking with the coach or student more in-depth, often when we were picking up balls. I am now an elementary school teacher and the biggest and most critical part of my job is building relationships. It's what happens between the lines, ancillary to the focused instruction, that makes the biggest difference in developing further interest and motivation. Most kids these days don't even practice between lessons. I warmed up on the backboard, brought my coach some cold water or a towel, so they didn't have to retrieve them for themselves. I hung on their words and came to my lessons with problems I was trying to fix. There are so many ways to increase the efficacy of a lesson, where most here are focused on efficiency. Repetition is important, but lessons aren't meant to be practice. Hearing the same correction another time isn't going to fix the student's problem. It takes the motivating and teaching of the kid's own technical analysis that doesn't happen between ball feeds. Having an instructor that's thinking about your kid's problems outside of the instructional time, asking them during the week, or month in my case, how the fixes were going is what you want. I didn't want my parents getting in the way of that. I wouldn't want a parent getting in the middle of that if I were teaching tennis.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

You're not corrected, just broadened to another perspective.

That's what I meant; sorry I wasn't clear.

By the same token, if a parent helps to pick up, you shouldn't assume they are being disrespectful. Maybe they're thinking they're just being helpful.

 

[RiverRat]

practice the toss. In my case, the "over toss."

You earned a shout out from me. I have benefitted from similar practice. When I was young and transitioning from a western grip to a mild semi-western I had to completely change my swing. My coach would have me over-swinging to the fence on the right to exaggerate the motion. Sometimes making subtle changes is more difficult than dramatic changes. It wasn't the final destination for my swing but it broke me out of my prior mindset.

 

[RiverRat]

Duplicate post.

 

[RiverRat]

By the same token, if a parent helps to pick up, you shouldn't assume they are being disrespectful. Maybe they're thinking they're just being helpful.

No doubt. I hear you clearly and agree that that should always be the first assumption. Thanks.

 

[J011yroger]

Who has Jo11yroger developed? All I see from Jo11y are sarcastic remarks. If a kid takes one lesson from you a week, you are dumb to not leverage the parents.

I said no thanks to hearing his examples.

I have a plan for everyone based on their goals, means, and time.

J

 

[RiverRat]

I have a plan for everyone based on their goals, means, and time.

What do you mean by "means"? I understand the financial necessities of coaching, but I can also say that during my time growing up on the tennis court, nearly every coach I worked with found ways to help me financially, to provide work opportunities or a sliding scale for lessons. I think these arrangements were mutually beneficial too, because other paying clients came to them, in part, because I was working with them.

I also had no interest when I was coaching to maximize the number of lessons a student took beyond their commitment. Taking two tennis lessons per week won't make you twice as good as one, if you're not practicing a ton. I was young and didn't have the financial responsibilities I do today, but I'd like to think I would, more or less, subscribe to that principle were I still teaching. I would not enjoy teaching that second lesson per week at the cost of doing what's best for the student. Why else teach? There are plenty of other jobs. I want you to know I am not accusing you of anything.

 

[Searah]

For the coaches on here - do you like it when a parent attends their child's lesson, or picks up the balls during the lesson? I've been reading some online forums where a lot of coaches say they don't like it, and in fact don't allow parents to participate or watch. I suppose there's a spectrum of involvement ranging from helpful to not helpful. Where do you draw the line?

kids tend to get distracted by parents.
but if the child has autism or mild case of autsim.. then i think is ok for parents to be on court picking up balls. just so i can keep a flow of tennis balls going.

 

[J011yroger]

What do you mean by "means"? I understand the financial necessities of coaching, but I can also say that during my time growing up on the tennis court, nearly every coach I worked with found ways to help me financially, to provide work opportunities or a sliding scale for lessons. I think these arrangements were mutually beneficial too, because other paying clients came to them, in part, because I was working with them.

I also had no interest when I was coaching to maximize the number of lessons a student took beyond their commitment. Taking two tennis lessons per week won't make you twice as good as one, if you're not practicing a ton. I was young and didn't have the financial responsibilities I do today, but I'd like to think I would, more or less, subscribe to that principle were I still teaching. I would not enjoy teaching that second lesson per week at the cost of doing what's best for the student. Why else teach? There are plenty of other jobs. I want you to know I am not accusing you of anything.

It's time, money, ability to travel, parental support, friend network, etc. You take all these parameters and line them up with the player's goals to come up with the best plan you can.

J

 

[RiverRat]

It's time, money, ability to travel, parental support, friend network, etc. You take all these parameters and line them up with the player's goals to come up with the best plan you can.

Good luck with that. It's a lot of factors. I was a slow developer as a child, in part, because of my lack of resources preventing me from playing much indoor tennis until I was older and had proven myself. My slow development was also hampered by some psychological impediments in competition (too much compassion for my opponent and desire to be friends) and, probably more significantly by the type of hyper-aggressive serve and volley game I couldn't really employe until 15 or 16. I surprised everyone, including myself, with the progress that I eventually made and the collegiate and professional opportunities that followed. I only add myself as a cautionary tale because had it not been for the generosity of so many, none of that would have happened. It wasn't so much that I showed promise but that I showed a hunger and a passion far beyond my current abilities. It didn't hurt that I was an outstanding athlete in the traditional sports of football, basketball, and track either, which hinted at some hidden potential.

 

[J011yroger]

Good luck with that. It's a lot of factors. I was a slow developer as a child, in part, because of my lack of resources preventing me from playing much indoor tennis until I was older and had proven myself. My slow development was also hampered by some psychological impediments in competition (too much compassion for my opponent and desire to be friends) and, probably more significantly by the type of hyper-aggressive serve and volley game I couldn't really employe until 15 or 16. I surprised everyone, including myself, with the progress that I eventually made and the collegiate and professional opportunities that followed. I only add myself as a cautionary tale because had it not been for the generosity of so many, none of that would have happened. It wasn't so much that I showed promise but that I showed a hunger and a passion far beyond my current abilities. It didn't hurt that I was an outstanding athlete in the traditional sports of football, basketball, and track either, which hinted at some hidden potential.

Ya, lots of people have helped me along the way when they didn't have to so I make a point of giving back more than I got.

J

 

[giantschwinn]

RiverRat, I admire your go getter attitude. Kids from lesser means sometimes do have more drive to overcome their economic situations. Others do drugs and join gangs. But parents picking up balls for the kids is what middle class parents do. We support our kids the best we can and don't want to waste valuable lesson time on that. If this makes our kids soft, so be it. When my kid becomes a doctor and can afford 5 times a week lesson from a coach guru, he can make his kid pick up balls.

 

[RiverRat]

RiverRat, I admire your go getter attitude. Kids from lesser means sometimes do have more drive to overcome their economic situations. Others do drugs and join gangs. But parents picking up balls for the kids is what middle class parents do. We support our kids the best we can and don't want to waste valuable lesson time on that. If this makes our kids soft, so be it. When my kid becomes a doctor and can afford 5 times a week lesson from a coach guru, he can make his kid pick up balls.

Hey, I'm not telling what is right or wrong. I hoped to let people know how to get more out of their tennis coaches and lessons. I appreciate you recognizing my spirit, as you might imagine it gets me in as much trouble as it serves me well. I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder and I recognize it, usually after I've offended someone. I teach advanced academics at the elementary school level and have mostly Indian and other Asian students. I know how involved their parents want to be, but I caution them continually. You might consider reading Julie Lythcott-Haims book called How to Raise an Adult. She went to Harvard Law School with my wife, two years behind Obama. She is currently the Dean of Freshman at Stanford. BTW, my wife is a first generation college graduate, like all of her seven siblings, growing up in a two-bedroom apartment, another three of which graduated from the Ivy League. Her achievements are the ones to really admire. I'm just a fairly accomplished tennis player who has a love of learning. So if you're a middle-class parent who aspires to more for your children, you might heed some of what I say, particularly where it applies to tennis. All the best.

 

[TopspintheTerrible]

Here's one story.

Family has a few bucks, instructor$ love this because they only need one or have to work a few student$.

I'm living in Georgia at this time and I mosey on up to the local public courts alone. I love going alone because people don't know what to make of this. There was a time when most of us would go to the courts alone, then, depending who was there, pick up a game. Good-by to those days.

So there's this girl, there's always a girl, hitting with this guy, there's always a guy. Turns out he's an instructor and she's the student. My guess, she was 15 possibly?

With no one to hit with, remember, I'm alone, so I took in the lesson. Sure, I've seen his style of teaching a hundred times, if not more. Same lesson plan they get from someone else or from one of these tennis associations who crown you "A certified Instructor."

Sure, I feel bad for the student already, she can hit, a bit over active, but she's getting it done. "Getting it done?" Remember this.

I leave without hitting. Story of my life.

So you go to the courts alone (I do this all the time & nobody makes anything of it cuz they don’t care), watch a 15 yr old girl take a lesson & then leave without hitting a ball? And you do/did this so frequently you describe it as the “story of your life?”

What in tarnation are you talking about?

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I believe only 1% of the traffic pumped through Nick's place made it to ATP.

To judge whether that's good, bad, or average, I'd have to know the stats for the other academies.

Recently, I had the head pro who works for a hoity-toity tennis club in an adjoining state. HEAD PRO! $10K to join!

Brings me in to teach his young daughter service pronation. Gee. Now why is that? OK, let's think about this one. Tough one.

Hummmm?

I got it! Because he and no one else at the bloody club had the ability to do it!

That's one explanation. Another is that sometimes parents and kids don't make for a very good instructor/student relationship. Another coach saying exactly the same thing will be listened to by the child whereas if the parent said it, it would be ignored or fought.

Maybe he liked the way you taught.

Maybe he was short on time.

There are many explanations.

 

[Jake Speeed]

To judge whether that's good, bad, or average, I'd have to know the stats for the other academies.



That's one explanation. Another is that sometimes parents and kids don't make for a very good instructor/student relationship. Another coach saying exactly the same thing will be listened to by the child whereas if the parent said it, it would be ignored or fought.

Maybe he liked the way you taught.

Maybe he was short on time.

There are many explanations.

I cannot disagree with you.

Thank you for the reply.

 

[BevelDevil]

It depends if the parent is already training the child, in any capacity. If so, it makes sense for the parent and coach to be on the same page. At the very least, the parent should be able to replicate some of the drills the coach does. Ideally, the coach would give out "homework" for the kid to do with the parent. Sadly, I wouldn't be surprised if some coaches ban parents as a way to keep them dependent on the coach.

I have seen more than one instance of a coach hitting balls at kids while they run the perimeter of the court. When did this become a thing? What the heck is the purpose? Anyone see this?

I think it's a game. It's kinda like dodgeball with tennis balls. Kids love it and run faster. It's all fun and games until someone steps on the ball and twist the ankle.

Maybe it's to encourage side shuffling/cross-stepping, and keeping eyes on the opponent? I have to admit, the thought has crossed my mind to peg my kid with a ball whenever he turns sideways to recover... Actually, I think I just thought of a decent drill. I'm going to hold two balls. One is a regular feed, the other is the ball I'm going to tell him in advance I'm going to try to try to peg him with. Not only will he keep eyes forward, but his racket will be in ready position!

 

[nyta2]

For the coaches on here - do you like it when a parent attends their child's lesson, or picks up the balls during the lesson? I've been reading some online forums where a lot of coaches say they don't like it, and in fact don't allow parents to participate or watch. I suppose there's a spectrum of involvement ranging from helpful to not helpful. Where do you draw the line?

As a parent i like to attend (so i can reinforce the lesson later in practice). and i like to participate (pick up balls, etc..). if i have a disagreement/question with the coach, i'll bring it up to them away from my kid, so we can get on the same page... i don't want to undermine the coach, as i want my kid to generally listen and work hard for the coach, and do as they say.

As a coach, i typically like parents participating, but there are some times i don't like it (ie. the parent is interjecting their own incorrect teaching, or if the kid is distracted by the parent). I don't see it as much in tennis (as i'm usually the most knowledgeable person on the court (me/student/parent)..,. but in coaching soccer for example... if i'm doing passing drills and i have a hyper parent yelling "shoot, shoot, shoot", or encouraging their kid to single handedly dribble the ball around 3-4 defenders,... (or worse, criticizing them for their failures). that's not helpful. but generally i like the parents there, so they can also learn the lesson, to reinforce later with their kids.

side note, other activities, like dancing and music, are very strict about not having parents there... because they usually become a distraction to the kid (either because the kid needs affirmation, or it's a doting parent)

 

[Jake Speeed]

I never minded parents participating, in fact I sometimes required this.

What bothers me, are parents who really believe they can be instructors.

 

[Miki 1234]

Parents do what they want in the end.
It also depends on the kid and conditions needed to play serious tennis.
Total failure parents like lucic baroni dad and dokic jelena dad are guys that would mess up everything they touch , still their daughters made it . At a cost off course.
Even tho they are sociopats .
So most kids and coaches cant really complain, it is what it is.
If you dont like it dont do it , or balance crazy parent out somehow if you want to make money as a coach and still coach good.
For me saddest part is when kid is good but not pro material .
Then parents push like crazy and possibly destroy kids future and great college opportunity to go for pro tennis.
And kids never reach their potential .
But this is mostly a thing of past now.
Kids are worst then parents these days.