Physics of the Backhands

[Jonny S&V]

OK...
Vilas has a great forehand, strong, consistent, forcing. Everyone says his backhand is better, so it's possible to have a stronger ONE HANDED backhand than forehand, meaning it's also better than possible two handers....
Lendl same ding, but right handed. Great forehand, no doubt. But once again, everyone said his one handed backhand is better, stronger, more consistent than his great forehand, meaning.....
NO player with two handers are reputed to have stronger, harder hitting two handed backhands. Simple dat...

Lol, don't tell that to 60-75% of the WTA tour. Santoro anyone? Safin's backhand is arguably better (at least more consistently aggressive). But still, the point stands, YOU MAKE NO SENSE!!! Compare backhands to backhands, no backhands to forehands...

 

[LeeD]

Sorry, but to imply is to almost state, but with some reservation.
YOU don't understand, too bad.

5 examples of two handers, NONE with stronger, better backhands.
5 examples of one handers, TWO have arguably stronger and better backhands.
The notion that Lendl's backhand was inferior to his forehand is preposterous. I watched him play from beginning to end, and like Vilas, both had thunderous backhands even compared to their fantastic forehands.
What kept them both from being CONSISTENT #1's was their movement, their volleys, and their insistence to play a baseline game against all convictions. Lendl was #1 for plenty long to make tons of $$$$ and cruise the good life till he dies.

 

[EikelBeiter]

Sorry, but to imply is to almost state, but with some reservation.
YOU don't understand, too bad.

5 examples of two handers, NONE with stronger, better backhands.
5 examples of one handers, TWO have arguably stronger and better backhands.
The notion that Lendl's backhand was inferior to his forehand is preposterous. I watched him play from beginning to end, and like Vilas, both had thunderous backhands even compared to their fantastic forehands.
What kept them both from being CONSISTENT #1's was their movement, their volleys, and their insistence to play a baseline game against all convictions. Lendl was #1 for plenty long to make tons of $$$$ and cruise the good life till he dies.

Ok let me give you 5 examples of player i think definitely have a double handed backhand as good as there forehand, if not better:

Murray,
Safin,
Coria,
Nalbandian,
Simon

 

[Jonny S&V]

Sorry, but to imply is to almost state, but with some reservation.
YOU don't understand, too bad.

5 examples of two handers, NONE with stronger, better backhands.
5 examples of one handers, TWO have arguably stronger and better backhands.
The notion that Lendl's backhand was inferior to his forehand is preposterous. I watched him play from beginning to end, and like Vilas, both had thunderous backhands even compared to their fantastic forehands.
What kept them both from being CONSISTENT #1's was their movement, their volleys, and their insistence to play a baseline game against all convictions. Lendl was #1 for plenty long to make tons of $$$$ and cruise the good life till he dies.

I understand perfectly, it's my thread!!!

I don't care about forehands, I just want to know about backhands comparisons. To imply that people with better backhands then forehands have a one-hander doesn't justify that the one-hander does hit a heavier ball (and there are plenty of two-handers with better backhands, as EikelBeiter has shown)!!!

 

[LeeD]

No argument from me, I've never really watched any except Safin, and his backhand is more consistent, but his forehand stronger, so which wing is better?
One way to tell, for you guys who never played in pro level matches, is to see which side the opponent CONSISTENTLY serve their second serves to.
Think about that one, since you probably (obviously, some of you know basic tennis strategy) never gave it any real forethought.

 

[Jonny S&V]

No argument from me, I've never really watched any except Safin, and his backhand is more consistent, but his forehand stronger, so which wing is better?
One way to tell, for you guys who never played in pro level matches, is to see which side the opponent CONSISTENTLY serve their second serves to.
Think about that one, since you probably (obviously, some of you know basic tennis strategy) never gave it any real forethought.

And you have? Sorry, I still don't believe it, we have no proof.

This still has nothing to do with the thread...

 

[LeeD]

Closer than you guys!
Going 4th and 5th rounds in pro qualifiers, hitting with Rameriz and Stockton, hitting with Div1 singles players, I'd think so.
Discount my posts, it's OK. I'm only ONE of many who post.
I assume you know why I posted about the second serve directions?

 

[LeeD]

Sorry, "we have no proof"
That says it all. Even though you hit and serve at least equal to me, you have not had the Open level, A level, and upper levels tournament experience.
If you HAD played that level, then your thinking cap was laying next to your spare rackets next to your chair next to the umpires stand.
I won't bore you with the WHYS

 

[EikelBeiter]

No argument from me, I've never really watched any except Safin, and his backhand is more consistent, but his forehand stronger, so which wing is better?
One way to tell, for you guys who never played in pro level matches, is to see which side the opponent CONSISTENTLY serve their second serves to.
Think about that one, since you probably (obviously, some of you know basic tennis strategy) never gave it any real forethought.

I'm not sure about that, his backhand down the line is massive. But then again so are his forehands

 

[LeeD]

Eikels...
Safin had a great DTL backhand, but his forehand is much scarier, produces many more winners and forcing shots. He favors forehands on any balls near the middle of the court, so he thinks so also.
But concentrate more on my second and third paragraphs.
The reason most pros serve MOSTLY to the other guys backhand is NOT to win the point outright (like maybe us), but to lessen the chance of a winning RETURN OF SERVE shot.
The backhand return of serve might be more consistent, but it often does not produce WINNERS. When you serve, you are trying to win the POINT, not necessarily produce a winner.
Now you'll come back with Serena's backhand winner return of serves against poor Safina. Yeah, she better learn to second serve with more direction and placement, or face that grinder every time.
Point is, almost all top level players, the backhand is weaker, but sometimes, on some ONE HANDERS, you stay away from their backhands on important points....like second serves.

 

[soyizgood]

Ok let me give you 5 examples of player i think definitely have a double handed backhand as good as there forehand, if not better:

Murray,
Safin,
Coria,
Nalbandian,
Simon

Add Davydenko, Djokovic, Stepanek to that list

 

[LeeD]

Good as, is not the same as stronger, more forcing, more consistent, theoretically more powerful.
We are not talking "good as" or "more consistent". We are talking pure power, drive, placement, possible # of winners.
All above listed hit inside out forehands, favoring their forehands over their backhands in match play.
That says it all.

 

[julian]

What about some sisters?

Add Davydenko, Djokovic, Stepanek to that list

Some female players could be added as well

 

[LeeD]

Williams's, Sharapova's, any of thems....
They all favor their forehands when given a choice.
We would serve to their BACKHANDS when we play them.
So does one hand or two handers make a diff?
Except for my examples, seems one handers CAN be hit harder than two handers.
Not talking about consistency or what works for YOU or me. Talking pure ripping high speed and high spin WINNERS.

 

[Jonny S&V]

Closer than you guys!
Going 4th and 5th rounds in pro qualifiers, hitting with Rameriz and Stockton, hitting with Div1 singles players, I'd think so.
Discount my posts, it's OK. I'm only ONE of many who post.
I assume you know why I posted about the second serve directions?

I'm going to ignore the first two lines, I'm a visual proof kinda guy (or statistics kinda guy).

Yes I know what you meant by the second serve directions, but it doesn't add anything to this argument!

Sorry, "we have no proof"
That says it all. Even though you hit and serve at least equal to me, you have not had the Open level, A level, and upper levels tournament experience.
If you HAD played that level, then your thinking cap was laying next to your spare rackets next to your chair next to the umpires stand.
I won't bore you with the WHYS

I'm 17, of course I haven't played Open level etc... I do play juniors who are ranked in the top 20 of my section and top 300 in the US, so I have enough experience there.

 

[LeeD]

ehh...
Can you possibly believe that, somewhat being about equal in tennis skills, a 60 year old with 35 years of tennis experience MIGHT know a little more about tennis than a 17 year old?
I said a "LITTLE" more, not lots more.
Ya dink your Dad knows more about life than you?
Ya dink your Coach knows more about tennis than you?
Ya dink your teachers know more about the subjects than you?
The simple fact that you can't concieve the reason why all pros run around their backhands to hit forehands, except Vilas and Lendl, tells me you are not fully developed in maturity or decision making.
Note V and L use ONE HANDED BACKHANDS!

 

[Jonny S&V]

ehh...
Can you possibly believe that, somewhat being about equal in tennis skills, a 60 year old with 35 years of tennis experience MIGHT know a little more about tennis than a 17 year old?
I said a "LITTLE" more, not lots more.
Ya dink your Dad knows more about life than you?
Ya dink your Coach knows more about tennis than you?
Ya dink your teachers know more about the subjects than you?
The simple fact that you can't concieve the reason why all pros run around their backhands to hit forehands, except Vilas and Lendl, tells me you are not fully developed in maturity or decision making.
Note V and L use ONE HANDED BACKHANDS!

I know more about many things tennis related (stringing, history, records/results, stats are my thing) then you do probably.

I know you are insinuating that the one-hander is better because people will sometimes avoid it on "second serves." It's a stupid way of figuring out whether or not the one-hander is more power/heavier then a two-hander (not to mention not entirely accurate, Justine Henin served to forehands on second serves most of the time, and she was mildly successful).

I do like the condescending attitude though. Instead of writing "you think," treated me like a 5 year old and wrote "ya dink." Very mature for a 55-60 year old who has "35 years" of tennis experience. :roll:

 

[LeeD]

Ya dink... is used in reply to Slicendicer, BungalowBill, Dj for life, and some other extremely knowledgeable tennis enthusiasts.
What you read is nothing compared to what you experience. Books might give you some basic knowledge, but nobody can live by knowledge gained only by books.
You are 17. Just admit it and get good in tennis.
Stats mean nothing. It's just an excersise for an accountant.

 

[Jonny S&V]

Ya dink... is used in reply to Slicendicer, BungalowBill, Dj for life, and some other extremely knowledgeable tennis enthusiasts.
What you read is nothing compared to what you experience. Books might give you some basic knowledge, but nobody can live by knowledge gained only by books. You are 17. Just admit it and get good in tennis.
Stats mean nothing. It's just an excersise for an accountant.

No, but they are fun for me. When you don't have internet, cable, or indoor tennis courts during the winter and you've already done your 2 hour workout, you have to get something to pass the time, and reading books (a lot of them tennis related) is how I pass the time (contrary to your belief that all teenagers veg out in front of video games and tv).

 

[LeeD]

Really, no TV?
No internet?
I think you had better get really good in tennis and prove me and everyone else WRONG. Once you get to Div1 singles, you can tell me... "I told you so".
I hope you get there at least.
Your serve and strokes are already there.

 

[Jonny S&V]

Really, no TV?
No internet?
I think you had better get really good in tennis and prove me and everyone else WRONG. Once you get to Div1 singles, you can tell me... "I told you so".
I hope you get there at least.
Your serve and strokes are already there.

Lol, I hope to, summers are when my game goes up a couple levels (I teach for 4 hours and hit for 3-4, lol). I'm gonna settle for DII tennis for now though...

 

[Kevo]

Here's an interesting question? Let's say you take the guy who has the fastest and "spinniest" one hander and put him up against his equivalent with the two hander. I wonder who hits the bigger ball?

Next question, isn't it possible, and maybe even likely, that for each individual the answer as to whether a 1HBH or 2HBH is better could be different?

Thirdly, does it matter which is better? I mean once you get to a certain point, the ball is a winner whether it's 90mph or 100mph. Isn't the trick to make your backhand good enough whichever one you choose?

 

[Jonny S&V]

Here's an interesting question? Let's say you take the guy who has the fastest and "spinniest" one hander and put him up against his equivalent with the two hander. I wonder who hits the bigger ball?

Next question, isn't it possible, and maybe even likely, that for each individual the answer as to whether a 1HBH or 2HBH is better could be different?

Thirdly, does it matter which is better? I mean once you get to a certain point, the ball is a winner whether it's 90mph or 100mph. Isn't the trick to make your backhand good enough whichever one you choose?

My answer to the first question (which I'm taking from previous answers, since they make sense) is the first paragraph is impossible, not that it matters, I made this thread to settle an argument with a thread with physics to back me up.

Again, this thread is just for fun, I don't care which one is better, I'm keeping my one-hander irregardless, I was just curious...

 

[julian]

Some data related 2 your question

Not that this would be the end of the discussion, but...

What's the tour record speed for a BH? Was it hit 1 handed or 2?

This isn't rhetorical... I have no idea.

See
http://www.advancedtennis.com/results/ballspeedmph.htm

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

See
http://www.advancedtennis.com/results/ballspeedmph.htm

This data was taken from studies done of Sampras and other pros a little more than a decade ago. For more details, check the following 2 links. While the average speed of a BH was a bit slower than that of the average speed of the FH, the study doesn't compare speeds of 1-handed BHs to 2-handers. However, their spin study does show some comparisons of the 2 flavors or BHs.

wings.avkids.com/Tennis/Project/speed-07.html

wings.avkids.com/Tennis/Project/usspin-05.html

.

 

[LeeD]

I'd agree with the stats.
My backhand often employs a low, hard backspun slice shot, moving slow on the radar gun.
I almost don't backspin my forehands, so the average speed is higher right there alone.
And most top players get to hit more backhands, given the opposition hitting there lots, and they need CONSISTENCY more than pure return speed.

 

[NamRanger]

Ok let me give you 5 examples of player i think definitely have a double handed backhand as good as there forehand, if not better:

Murray,
Safin,
Coria,
Nalbandian,
Simon

Safin hits a far bigger forehand than his backhand, as does Nalbandian. The difference is that their backhands give them a massive geometrical court advantage, allowing them to control an area of the court that is attacked often on the professional tour.



Safin's forehand if we are talking about pure power, can hit way harder on his forehand than his backhand. He consistently cracks 80 mph forehands in rallies, and can easily break 100 like it's nothing. His backhand on the other hand maxes about 90 (which is by no means slow at all, just that it's 10 mph slower than his fastest forehands).