Playing with a Poly / Natural Gut Hybrid Set Up

[Bob2017]

Hi.

I am in a bit of a dilemma. I currently play with a full poly set up, but am finding it rather costly and time consuming having to restring every 12-15 hours because of loss of playability. I have recently started considering natural gut and, in particular, a poly/natural gut hybrid.

My question is the following: If I had a decent natural gut in the mains and a decent poly in the crosses, would playability be maintained until the gut string breaks?

Thanks for your wisdom.

Bob.

 

[socallefty]

No, the poly will lose playability during the same number of hours (15-20 hours) on a hybrid as it would on a full-bed - that’s assuming you don’t break the strings before that.

 

[Mirko]

No.
Playing with gut/poly will be not cheaper.
Try to find poly that costs cheaper.
What poly are you playing?

 

[Bob2017]

No, the poly will lose playability during the same number of hours (15-20 hours) on a hybrid as it would on a full-bed - that’s assuming you don’t break the strings before that.

But do you think it (the poly dying) would have that much of an impact on playability as the mains primarily dictate the racket's performance?

 

[Bob2017]

No.
Playing with gut/poly will be not cheaper.
Try to find poly that costs cheaper.
What poly are you playing?

Yes, I am also considering that. I vary the polys I play with, but am looking at MSV-Focus Hex co-poly as an inexpensive poly alternative.

 

[socallefty]

But do you think it (the poly dying) would have that much of an impact on playability as the mains primarily dictate the racket's performance?

I play with VS17 mains/HyperG 18 crosses hybrid and find that I have to cut them out after 18-20 hours if I don’t break the strings before that. The poly starts feeling harsh with a worser ‘feel’ and I don’t feel like playing with that racquet anymore when I have others with fresher string jobs. So, it is not necessarily a lack of control that I feel, but less comfort/feel that I get within 20 hours.

 

[Bob2017]

I play with VS17 mains/HyperG 18 crosses hybrid and find that I have to cut them out after 18-20 hours if I don’t break the strings before that. The poly starts feeling harsh with a worser ‘feel’ and I don’t feel like playing with that racquet anymore when I have others with fresher string jobs. So, it is not necessarily a lack of control that I feel, but less comfort/feel that I get within 20 hours.

I think I could deal with a harsher feel as long as the control and spin remained (until the gut breaks). I am dreaming that I could maybe play with the same string set up for 3 months!

 

[socallefty]

I think I could deal with a harsher feel as long as the control and spin remained (until the gut breaks).

Your orthopedic doctor thanks you for feeling that way - you’ll be contributing to his yacht fund in a year or two. “Don‘t play with dead poly“ should be inscribed on the doorway of every tennis club.

In any case, you’ll likely break the gut within 20 hours if you are at 4.5 or above in level. If you are below that and want to save money, just play with a good multifilament or a cheap gut like Klip. If you don’t break strings, the gut will be playable for more than forty hours without any noticeable drop in tension (after the first 24 hours) and it will be a better bargain than any other string if you like to restring as soon as you notice a difference in playability.

 

[Bob2017]

Your orthopedic doctor thanks you for feeling that way - you’ll be contributing to his yacht fund in a year or two. “Don‘t play with dead poly“ should be inscribed on the doorway of every tennis club.

In any case, you’ll likely break the gut within 20 hours if you are at 4.5 or above in level. If you are below that and want to save money, just play with a good multifilament or a cheap gut like Klip. If you don’t break strings, the gut will be playable for more than forty hours without any noticeable drop in tension (after the first 24 hours) and it will be a better bargain than any other string if you like to restring as soon as you notice a difference in playability.

I am 4.5+. I don't usually break strings (used to play with synthetic gut). You think 'don't play with a dead poly' applies to when it is only in the crosses? I will probably just have to give it a try (natural gut in mains and poly in crosses) to see how it goes. If that doesn't work out, it's probably going to be an inexpensive (co) poly full bed for frequent restrings.

 

[socallefty]

I am 4.5+. I don't usually break strings (used to play with synthetic gut). You think 'don't play with a dead poly' applies to when it is only in the crosses? I will probably just have to give it a try (natural gut in mains and poly in crosses) to see how it goes. If that doesn't work out, it's probably going to be an inexpensive (co) poly full bed for frequent restrings.

Are you computer-rated or self-rated at 4.5+? I don’t know anyone with a computer rating of 4.5 who doesn‘t break strings within 20-25 hours maximum at least on hard courts and it might be even sooner on clay. In any case, why don’t you try a full bed of gut once - if you don’t break it, you might get the lifetime of four poly or poly/gut hybrid string jobs without any loss in playability.

 

[Injured Again]

I am 4.5+. I don't usually break strings (used to play with synthetic gut). You think 'don't play with a dead poly' applies to when it is only in the crosses? I will probably just have to give it a try (natural gut in mains and poly in crosses) to see how it goes. If that doesn't work out, it's probably going to be an inexpensive (co) poly full bed for frequent restrings.

If you don't usually break strings and used to play with synthetic gut, why did you switch to poly? Typically the advantages that poly brings a player are most beneficial if you play in such a way that you do break the strings within about 20 hours or so. Otherwise, you're kind of just getting the disadvantages of poly without really using what it can give you.

Poly strings degrade a little bit every time you hit the ball hard. When you hybrid them with an elastic string like gut, the poly has to absorb more of the impact force so it will actually degrade faster than in a full bed. The gut may help preserve the response a bit as the poly loses elasticity but the playability will change.

 

[Bob2017]

Are you computer-rested or self-rated at 4.5+? I don’t know anyone with a computer rating of 4.5 who doesn‘t break strings within 20-25 hours maximum at least on hard courts and it might be even sooner on clay. In any case, why don’t you try a full bed of gut once - if you don’t break it, you might get the lifetime of four poly or poly/gut hybrid string jobs without any loss in playability.

Self-rated. I don't actually know my level but looking at guidelines I would estimate that. With a full bed of gut, I think I would be hitting long/wide (I usually aim for lines). Could give it a try though.

 

[Bob2017]

If you don't usually break strings and used to play with synthetic gut, why did you switch to poly? Typically the advantages that poly brings a player are most beneficial if you play in such a way that you do break the strings within about 20 hours or so. Otherwise, you're kind of just getting the disadvantages of poly without really using what it can give you.

Poly strings degrade a little bit every time you hit the ball hard. When you hybrid them with an elastic string like gut, the poly has to absorb more of the impact force so it will actually degrade faster than in a full bed. The gut may help preserve the response a bit as the poly loses elasticity but the playability will change.

Switched because stringer at the time put in the wrong strings. Liked it, stuck with it.

 

[aaron_h27]

I think I could deal with a harsher feel as long as the control and spin remained (until the gut breaks). I am dreaming that I could maybe play with the same string set up for 3 months!

Hate to kill your dreams, but not possible. All strings drop in tension (less control) & elasticity over time. Even full bed of natural gut. Nothing will play better than a fresh string job. Find a string you like that you can use for 2-3 weeks and re-string when you have important matches coming up. Will save you a lot of time experimenting. No one at a high level plays with the same string job for 3 months b/c high level players need accuracy, anyone playing with a stringjob for 3 months is not playing competitive tennis regularly.

 

[Injured Again]

Switched because stringer at the time put in the wrong strings. Liked it, stuck with it.

Maybe try a full bed of one of the deader multis?

 

[warney]

@Bob2017 if you are getting 12-15 hours out of poly you're already getting great playability out of it. I use Gut/Poly but I change my crosses (I string myself) every 12 hours or so. Just to give perspective, I typically used to cut out full bed of poly after 8-10 hours because it started feeling dead.

Though I have a hard hitting partner (4.0, but plays 1-2 times a week) who gets about 4 months out of Gut/Poly.

If you are going to try Gut/Poly use try max power crosses as those last long time. If it does not give you cost benefit then you might as well invest in stringing machine and keep your current setup.

 

[Torque]

With all gut or the gut/poly, the string savers work really well. I used them initially but I am not a string breaker so I don’t use anymore. The string setup lasts more then 2 months then I restring.

 

[Bob2017]

Hate to kill your dreams, but not possible. All strings drop in tension (less control) & elasticity over time. Even full bed of natural gut. Nothing will play better than a fresh string job. Find a string you like that you can use for 2-3 weeks and re-string when you have important matches coming up. Will save you a lot of time experimenting. No one at a high level plays with the same string job for 3 months b/c high level players need accuracy, anyone playing with a stringjob for 3 months is not playing competitive tennis regularly.

I had a dream... I've never played with full natural gut bed or even with it just in the mains. I read that it plays almost the same throughout its lifetime.

 

[Bob2017]

Maybe try a full bed of one of the deader multis?

I'll likely go with regular restrings of an inexpensive co poly.

 

[Bob2017]

@Bob2017 if you are getting 12-15 hours out of poly you're already getting great playability out of it. I use Gut/Poly but I change my crosses (I string myself) every 12 hours or so. Just to give perspective, I typically used to cut out full bed of poly after 8-10 hours because it started feeling dead.

Though I have a hard hitting partner (4.0, but plays 1-2 times a week) who gets about 4 months out of Gut/Poly.

If you are going to try Gut/Poly use try max power crosses as those last long time. If it does not give you cost benefit then you might as well invest in stringing machine and keep your current setup.

Thanks for the tips and advice. I am also thinking about getting a portable stringing machine (I travel a fair bit) and pretty much sticking with current set up. I may switch to a co poly for slightly longer playability.

 

[mctennis]

I think I could deal with a harsher feel as long as the control and spin remained (until the gut breaks). I am dreaming that I could maybe play with the same string set up for 3 months!

How much/hours of tennis do you play in a week? You are correct. A full bed of gut pretty much plays the same, after initial break in period, during the whole time you have it in. It usually feels great until it starts to fray and then break.
I can usually tell when the co-polys start to need replaced in my gut/co-poly set ups. The crosses lose a lot of tension and playability.

 

[aaron_h27]

I had a dream... I've never played with full natural gut bed or even with it just in the mains. I read that it plays almost the same throughout its lifetime.

I've been using Natural Gut the past 3 years extensively in full beds & hybrids, don't listen to posters when they say "Natural gut plays the same from cradle to grave" that is NOT accurate at all. All strings lose tension and become less accurate the more you play with them, Natural Gut loses the LEAST amount of tension compared to other strings, but it still loses tension. I have lost a lot of matches trying to play with old string-jobs so now I just string up every time I play an important match. I would say NG retains 80-90% of its playability, but when you're playing a match you need everything working in your favor.

One thing I do like about full natural gut is that I can practice with old string-jobs and it doesn't play that much differently than a fresh one (a bit less control), but still for a match im going to always go for a fresh string job. With full poly it's no fun practicing with dead strings.

 

[mctennis]

I've been using Natural Gut the past 3 years extensively in full beds & hybrids, don't listen to posters when they say "Natural gut plays the same from cradle to grave" that is NOT accurate at all. All strings lose tension and become less accurate the more you play with them, Natural Gut loses the LEAST amount of tension compared to other strings, but it still loses tension. I have lost a lot of matches trying to play with old string-jobs so now I just string up every time I play an important match. I would say NG retains 80-90% of its playability, but when you're playing a match you need everything working in your favor.

One thing I do like about full natural gut is that I can practice with old string-jobs and it doesn't play that much differently than a fresh one (a bit less control), but still for a match im going to always go for a fresh string job. With full poly it's no fun practicing with dead strings.

A get set up loses some tension but I believe you can not tell a huge difference in the tension loss once it settles in. Gut has less tension loss when played with vs a poly/co-poly.
I agree with you. If I play a match I will use a gut setup that is more recently strung.

 

[tonylg]

My question is the following: If I had a decent natural gut in the mains and a decent poly in the crosses, would playability be maintained until the gut string breaks?

Not unless you break the gut very, very quickly.

 

[mctennis]

Not unless you break the gut very, very quickly.

Do not shank a bed of gut. Big expen$e.

 

[tonylg]

Do not shank a bed of gut. Big expen$e.

Hey, I don't try to .. but sh1t happens.

 

[mctennis]

Hey, I don't try to .. but sh1t happens.

LOL, isn't that the truth!!!!

 

[Deleted member 369227]

I decided to try replacing crosses on my two Yonex Ai 98 racquets strung with VS Touch/Luxilon Adrenaline hybrid, after about 9-10 hours of hitting in each of them, because gut mains are still in pretty good shape visually. I know this is not something that professional stringers recommend, but since these are my own racquets, I took the risk.

Actually, my only concern was the very moment of cutting the cross string. I expected a recoil/stress of the frame fixed on the turntable, but apparently Luxilon was already so dead that the racquet barely winced when I cut it (the gap of the cut poly cross was about 1cm wide).

I carefully cut and removed the pieces of dead poly and then waved a fresh cross string opposite to of the original wave pattern, to avoid notches on the gut mains, and it worked pretty well. Unmounting the racquet after stringing was very easy (the racquet head didn't change its shape during the process), so I think that this "refreshment" of crosses will become my standard procedure in the future

 

[Bob2017]

How much/hours of tennis do you play in a week? You are correct. A full bed of gut pretty much plays the same, after initial break in period, during the whole time you have it in. It usually feels great until it starts to fray and then break.
I can usually tell when the co-polys start to need replaced in my gut/co-poly set ups. The crosses lose a lot of tension and playability.

I was playing about 12 hours a week until recently, but now I am only playing about 4 hours a week. I have ordered some NG, so will give a full bed a go to see what I think. I generally hit very close to the lines, so with the additional power of NG (compared to poly), I may have to adjust my shots a fair bit.

 

[Bob2017]

What's the main reason pros don't play with a full NG set up?

 

[Villain]

What's the main reason pros don't play with a full NG set up?

Not as much spin as gut/poly or full poly.

 

[mctennis]

The poly probably takes the harder hitting since it is a stretchy plastic not natural gut. Some pros use the hybrid setup but like Villain said above here, they get more spin with the gut/poly or full poly.

 

[socallefty]

What's the main reason pros don't play with a full NG set up?

- They would break them really fast possibly within 7-9 games which is when many of the top pros change racquets. Top pros could afford this, but it would be very expensive for those above a ranking above 150 who struggle to make a living
- It would have more power than they want due to the high launch angle even if they string it at tensions above 70-80 lbs where it would start to feel harsh. With too much power, they cannot swing out freely and have too curtail their swing speed which then results in less controlled pace/spin. Even with advanced players above 4.5, they actually can hit harder with more spin if they swing out freely with a high-control poly string with a low launch angle than a soft string like gut which would require them to slow down their swing.
- Poly has something called a SnapBack effect for high-speed swings where the strings move during contact and then snap back into their original position (poly is slippery) and this causes more spin-generation. So, advanced players can get much more spin and therefore much more angles with poly than with soft strings like gut. Also, with the increased spin, they can swing out harder and still keep the ball on-court with the extra topspin. Again, they can hit harder with control as a result. Since gut does not do that, the strings stick out of place after a few pro-level shots which makes the stringbed inconsistent and requires manually pushing the strings back into place too often.

The poly/gut hybrid allows pros and advanced rec players to maintain the positives of gut (power, feel, comfort) with the benefits of poly (spin, control, durability) especially if they pair the gut with a round poly which will snap back into place and allow heavy spin generation. Also, it is more cost-effective than playing with full gut and is a good compromise.

 

[shadow01]

What's the main reason pros don't play with a full NG set up?

Full bed gut locks up. I actually don’t like it at all. Gut’s true potential is in a hybrid imho.