Please help me with my overheads (video attached)

[The Unknown]

The overhead has always been a diabolical part of my game. Has definitely cost me matches, but it is something that I have never, ever looked at. I don't even know the fundamentals of a decent overhead, apart from maybe pointing at the ball. Things like grip, stance, elbow positioning etc - I have no idea. Never been taught and have never sought advice on it either. Doubles I go ok, but singles Im definitely prone to missing the most easiest shots.

Here is a short video of my terrible overheads. Sorry about the poor video quality.

Any advice, tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[elga]

Constructive criticism, for what it's worth:

Hard to tell with that video, but looks like your grip might be Eastern instead of Continental. I could be wrong, however, hard to tell in the vid. The continental grip will help you get the overhead smash instead of a deep sliced ball which looks like is happening a few times. Think of it like a serve almost - continental grip and pronation.

Footwork is lacking - really move those feet to get into position. Your left arm right now is reaching up and back instead of up and forward (think like you're going to catch the ball with your left hand - even practice catching a few with your left hand to get the feel of where you should be positioned). This will help you get your feet and body in the right position - this way you're not hitting the ball when it's behind you which is happening quite a bit. I imagine you're hitting long a lot of the time? Mostly due to hitting too late then the ball is on top of you or behind you instead of slightly in front.

Keep your eye on the ball to contact. Looks like you dropped your head just a bit too soon on a couple of them.

Overall not bad at all for admittedly not knowing the proper technique on overheads - just a few minor changes and with practice you'll be smashing them over the fence.

 

[The Unknown]

Constructive criticism, for what it's worth:

Hard to tell with that video, but looks like your grip might be Eastern instead of Continental. I could be wrong, however, hard to tell in the vid. The continental grip will help you get the overhead smash instead of a deep sliced ball which looks like is happening a few times. Think of it like a serve almost - continental grip and pronation.

Footwork is lacking - really move those feet to get into position. Your left arm right now is reaching up and back instead of up and forward (think like you're going to catch the ball with your left hand - even practice catching a few with your left hand to get the feel of where you should be positioned). This will help you get your feet and body in the right position - this way you're not hitting the ball when it's behind you which is happening quite a bit. I imagine you're hitting long a lot of the time? Mostly due to hitting too late then the ball is on top of you or behind you instead of slightly in front.

Keep your eye on the ball to contact. Looks like you dropped your head just a bit too soon on a couple of them.

Overall not bad at all for admittedly not knowing the proper technique on overheads - just a few minor changes and with practice you'll be smashing them over the fence.

Thanks, yeah sometimes I go for the ole fry pan on the smash, sometimes the continental. I think not getting sideways is hurting me a lot too from a couple of youtube vids Ive watched.

Also, in matches particularly, I will try and belt the absolute crap out the ball and thats usually when I make the worst mistakes. Ive got to try and stay loose playing it.

 

[elga]

Thanks, yeah sometimes I go for the ole fry pan on the smash, sometimes the continental. I think not getting sideways is hurting me a lot too from a couple of youtube vids Ive watched.

Also, in matches particularly, I will try and belt the absolute crap out the ball and thats usually when I make the worst mistakes. Ive got to try and stay loose playing it.

Great call, that's very important. Drop the right leg back to get more sideways instead of facing the net.

A key to staying loose on the smash is confidence. Most who don't have a great smash are thinking "I hope I don't mess this up" instead of "YES! Time to crush it!"

 

[Chas Tennis]

These overheads may be warm ups and not typical of match pace. But the technique is similar to the serve in its use of internal shoulder rotation (ISR).

I believe, but don't know, that if pace is developed by both a rotation and a swing forward and down as shown in the above video. In addition, that then the overhead, like the serve, is more tolerant of timing errors.

Consider the racket path as viewed from the side. I believe that most lower level players develop most pace by swinging forward and down without the ISR rotation. With that technique, I believe that errors in timing often go into the net and long. Also, the simple forward and down swing causes more up-down trajectory errors if position away from the dropping ball is not correct. They use a technique similar to a Waiter's Tray serve where they should be using a technique similar to a high level serve, as Federer is using above.

Here is your overhead showing its similarity to the Waiter's Tray serve technique.

Description of Waiter's Tray serving technique. The racket faces up at a certain position of the serve as shown. Compare to your overhead and serve.
http://www.hi-techtennis.com/serve/big_l_student.php

If you use an ISR technique, like Federer and most other high level players, your shoulders currently would be too level, with you upper arm at a risky angle to your shoulder. That would increase the risk of shoulder impingement according to Ellenbecker. See Ellenbecker "Rotator Cuff Injury" video. I have not seen information on the injury risk for your current technique.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

http://www.blackbelttennis.com/2014/07/04/catch-throw-great-overhead-smash/​

Grip: Typically, all strokes at the net use some variation of the continental grip. However, a semi-continental (Aussie) grip could be employed as an alternative if you are having an issue with the continental. If at all possible, use a continental. You might need to choke up slightly in the grip. Players who hold the racket handle at the very edge (butt) when at the baseline, will sometimes use a slightly shorter grip so that they are a bit quicker at the net.

Turn/Coil: You should be turning your torso (chest) 90°. This is somewhat less coil than top players use for the serve -- as it should be, However, you do not always turn 90° on your overheads in the video. Note that the hips can also be turned 90°. But this is not absolutely necessary. Note that Myskina has not coiled her hips as quite as much as her torso. However, you should not leave your feet in too much of a open stance. The stance should be neutral or semi-open (as Myskina empoys. in the image above).

Positioning: The left hand points to the incoming ball as seen in the image above. The left hand is actually held slightly to your right. You do this to line your body properly to the incoming ball. You want to position yourself so that you are contacting the ball slightly to the right when you uncoil.

You can practice the proper positioning with the ball machine. Get yourself into an "overhead" trophy position (like in the image above). Stay in this position but move your while body, staying side on, so that you can catch the ball in your left hand (instead of swinging at the ball). When you catch the ball, the left hand should be slightly to your right as 'i mentioned previously. Do not move your left arm to catch the ball -- move your whole body.

Shoulder Tilt: The shoulders should be tilted as seen above. This shoulder tilt might be somewhat less than a shoulder tilt for a serve. The (upward) extended left hand sets the left shoulder higher than the right shoulder. The right elbow should be directly in line with this shoulder tilt. Mykina's right elbow is slightly lower than it should be, ideally. Better to have it more in line with the shoulders. Yours, OTOH, tends to be higher than it should be. Myskina's (slightly) low right elbow is preferable to your high elbow.

 

[onehandbh]

Do you struggle with deep overheads where you have to move backwards quickly (and possibly jump) to hit?

I would imagine your facing the net and technique would make this situation very difficult.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Racket position: At your trophy position, the racket can be as shown (by Myskina). Alternately, it can be somewhat more up/vertical for your trophy. Note the orientation of the racket face. This orientation is ok. Or it can be rotated somewhat so that the hitting face points toward the back of your head (or toward your right ear).

Racket drop and WTE: You have a definite WTE (waiter's tray error) for your racket drop. You should be rotating your shoulder (see image below) and dropping the racket "on edge". Instead, you are laying your wrist back and letting your racket face point up to the sky (as if you were a waiter holding a tray).

The wrist should bend somewhat but it should happen a bit later and it should not lay straight back (wrist extension). It should be more of a side bend (toward the thumb) with a bit of wrist extension. Let the weight of the racket head help you to achieve the ESR (shoulder rotation) shown below. Rotating/uncoiling the torso should also help to facilitate the racket drop. Do not lift the elbow high to get the racket to drop. Note that racket head drops on overheads are typically not as deep as racket drops for serves.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Elena Dementieva overhead "trophy" position:

Anna K's start of upward swing (racket still on edge):

Spoiler: Bonus AK image

Just an excuse to post another image of Anna K. This may actually be a serve but, nonetheless, it shows good ESR and a decent racket drop:

++++++++

 

[The Unknown]

Elena Dementieva overhead "trophy" position:

Anna K's start of upward swing (racket still on edge):

Spoiler: Bonus AK image

Just an excuse to post another image of Anna K. This may actually be a serve but, nonetheless, it shows good ESR and a decent racket drop:

++++++++

Awesome and concise breakdown of the key steps, thanks mate, much appreciated. With some eye candy to top it all off - what more could a man want?

Im going start getting 90 degrees and using the conti grip and will start with the left hand catch drill you mention.

Ive always treated the smash and the serve as two different things but now I realise they have so many things in common.


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[Chotobaka]

That is very casual overhead practice. Next time, try this drill (using the mechanics suggested in previous posts):

1. Stand at the net and set your ball machine with enough loft to feed the ball over your head so that it lands at the service or a little beyond.

2. Your starting position is at the net, shoulders square to the net and racquet sitting vertically on top of the net.

3. On each feed, get your arms up and move backwards with a full shoulder turn, so that your shoulders are at least perpendicular to the net.

4. Execute your overhead and immediately return to your starting position with your racquet again touching the net in a vertical position. You can vary your feed rate to make this easier or more challenging, but it is a drill that should be done with constant movement. No real rest when you return to the net for the next feed.

This drill will wear you out but will definitely help your footwork and shoulder rotation. There will be times you will have to jump to hit the overhead, and times you will have to regroup and step forward into the shot, especially if you have a mix of balls in the machine hopper. The drill is even better with someone feeding the ball, because they can move you laterally more, but it works just fine with a machine. The key is to keep moving your feet and body and stay dynamic with the shot. I also like to set up a few cones as targets. You will see improvement in real-world situations practicing this way.

Hope this helps.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Awesome and concise breakdown of the key steps, thanks mate, much appreciated. With some eye candy to top it all off - what more could a man want?

Im going start getting 90 degrees and using the conti grip and will start with the left hand catch drill you mention.

Ive always treated the smash and the serve as two different things but now I realise they have so many things in common.

Smash and serve. Variations on a theme. Lot of commonalities but also some important diffs. Gratified that you're appreciative of the eye candy. More?

Spoiler: Eye Candy bonus

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Spoiler: Mea Culpa

SORRY! Couldn't resist the nested spoilers.

 

[The Unknown]

That is very casual overhead practice. Next time, try this drill (using the mechanics suggested in previous posts):

1. Stand at the net and set your ball machine with enough loft to feed the ball over your head so that it lands at the service or a little beyond.

2. Your starting position is at the net, shoulders square to the net and racquet sitting vertically on top of the net.

3. On each feed, get your arms up and move backwards with a full shoulder turn, so that your shoulders are at least perpendicular to the net.

4. Execute your overhead and immediately return to your starting position with your racquet again touching the net in a vertical position. You can vary your feed rate to make this easier or more challenging, but it is a drill that should be done with constant movement. No real rest when you return to the net for the next feed.

This drill will wear you out but will definitely help your footwork and shoulder rotation. There will be times you will have to jump to hit the overhead, and times you will have to regroup and step forward into the shot, especially if you have a mix of balls in the machine hopper. The drill is even better with someone feeding the ball, because they can move you laterally more, but it works just fine with a machine. The key is to keep moving your feet and body and stay dynamic with the shot. I also like to set up a few cones as targets. You will see improvement in real-world situations practicing this way.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for that, its time to get the cones out the boot


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[LeeD]

You're not hitting an overhead, you're hitting a forehand over your head. You're guiding the ball, not hitting it.
Notice how your right foot moves BACK on most of your overheads. Losing power.
Your swing is just too slow and mellow.
Get sideways, like you do on serves. The reason you get sideways is to get you in position to move back to the ball, crabhopping sideways, not backpedalling.

 

[coupergear]

Not as bad as you make it out. There are definitely some technical issues with your overhead. As other posters have mentioned it's kind of a waiter's tray overhead sometimes you kind of push/arm the ball. Yes shoulders should be 90 to net.etc. However it seems like you're getting pace, timing them fine and getting them in. I think given current form it's mostly mental. really relax and think about just hitting the ball easy and deep not blasting. Write it on the back of your hand or something. my guess is in a match your technique goes out the window as you anticipate bashing the ball into the stands. Sure you can clean up many things and definitely working on more difficult deeper lobs where you have to backshuffle to get to them will help but I think the quickest fix is relaxing and just nice easy swing. It's kind of like the problems people have with volleying they try to do too much with it, hacking away- you're mostly just timing it and redirecting the power of the descending lob back into the court.

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[coupergear]

Here's a thought too about not trying to do too much with it. How often do you see players at the pro level returning an overhead smash? A guy will guess right and get to the ball and return it. Doubles this too. Not that uncommon for the rally to continue--it's not an automatic put away every time. Shows that it's more about placement than power. I think Rec players have this idea that a lob means they have just been given the point if only they can bash it to kingdom come. Just adds to the pressure and creates mental and technical breakdowns.

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[Deleted member 23235]

To add to everyone else... and share how I practice:
Footwork (lack of).
When I practice my overheads,... at minimum I'll do a jab step forward, which starts my backward movement.
The work to hit an overhead is all done well before the swing.

If I'm on a ball machine:
* I'll run up and touch the net, and start working on my movement moving back on every overhead.
* I'll mix in a scissor kick pattern on the overhead.
* I'd set the ball machine to hit overheads between the service and the baseline (the further back the better)

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

That is very casual overhead practice. Next time, try this drill (using the mechanics suggested in previous posts):

1. Stand at the net and set your ball machine with enough loft to feed the ball over your head so that it lands at the service or a little beyond.

2. Your starting position is at the net, shoulders square to the net and racquet sitting vertically on top of the net.

3. On each feed, get your arms up and move backwards with a full shoulder turn, so that your shoulders are at least perpendicular to the net.

4. Execute your overhead and immediately return to your starting position with your racquet again touching the net in a vertical position. You can vary your feed rate to make this easier or more challenging, but it is a drill that should be done with constant movement. No real rest when you return to the net for the next feed.

This drill will wear you out but will definitely help your footwork and shoulder rotation. There will be times you will have to jump to hit the overhead, and times you will have to regroup and step forward into the shot, especially if you have a mix of balls in the machine hopper. The drill is even better with someone feeding the ball, because they can move you laterally more, but it works just fine with a machine. The key is to keep moving your feet and body and stay dynamic with the shot. I also like to set up a few cones as targets. You will see improvement in real-world situations practicing this way.

Hope this helps.

To add to everyone else... and share how I practice:
Footwork (lack of).
When I practice my overheads,... at minimum I'll do a jab step forward, which starts my backward movement.
The work to hit an overhead is all done well before the swing.

If I'm on a ball machine:
* I'll run up and touch the net, and start working on my movement moving back on every overhead.
* I'll mix in a scissor kick pattern on the overhead.
* I'd set the ball machine to hit overheads between the service and the baseline (the further back the better)

Excellent ideas, guys. However, I'd suggest that the OP fix basic mechanics before attempting more challenging drills.

 

[Ninjamaster]

Honestly, overheads should not be so complicated. Keep your body closed and backpedal with your body in a closed stance (more like a sidestep). back up enough to stay behind the ball for the overhead. Make sure you are are moving forward when you hit the overhead. In other words let the ball fall somewhat in front of you and hit it out in front.

I see a lot of people trying to hit the ball right on top or even behind their head. Without a strong wrist snap those overheads are going to be weak, and the possibility of a shank is pretty high. Hit them out in front.

Your stance is also kind of open. It's not that big of a deal to hit your overhead with an open stance, but it is a big deal to be moving backwards looking up at the ball and backpedaling. Stay sideways to back up. You can get into position quicker and it's ultimately safer.

 

[Chas Tennis]

For about a year I thought that this was a serve.

Henin's serve like motion is going to be difficult to learn if you now have a Waiter's Tray type swing.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

If you are making clean contact, watching the ball contact the strings, you are good to go until 4.5.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

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[SystemicAnomaly]

Honestly, overheads should not be so complicated. Keep your body closed and backpedal with your body in a closed stance (more like a sidestep). back up enough to stay behind the ball for the overhead. Make sure you are are moving forward when you hit the overhead. In other words let the ball fall somewhat in front of you and hit it out in front.

I see a lot of people trying to hit the ball right on top or even behind their head. Without a strong wrist snap those overheads are going to be weak, and the possibility of a shank is pretty high. Hit them out in front.

Your stance is also kind of open. It's not that big of a deal to hit your overhead with an open stance, but it is a big deal to be moving backwards looking up at the ball and backpedaling. Stay sideways to back up. You can get into position quicker and it's ultimately safer.

Very good. But, if used, the open stance should be semi-open and the torso should still coil about 90 degrees (from its position facing the net) in most cases.

And lets take this notion of a "strong wrist snap" out back and shoot it to put it out of its misery. Wrist snap implies a very full wrist flexion to many, if not most, players. Wrist should not end up in strong flexed position at contact or after contact. It should be neutral at contact and should be neutral (or very slightly flexed) on the follow-thru after contact.

When coaches mention a (strong) wrist snap, they are really talking about a vigorous forearm pronation with ISR (as shown in post#20). This is coupled with a mild/moderate wrist action prior to contact. Characterizing this as a strong wrist snap has been very misleading to many students/players.

 

[dak95_00]

I used to miss many and feared them. Now I don't ever practice them and very rarely miss.

The only change I made was to point at the ball with my off hand and swing the racquet to that off hand which I keep pointing in the air as long as possible. I pretend I'm going to catch the ball like in baseball and immediately throw with my hitting arm. I rarely try to kill the ball and only go for quality contact.

Keeping that pointing finger has helped my footwork and position. It really had simplified everything. Yes it feels like I'm swinging up but I'm behind the ball just like a serve.