Soderling agrees with Nadal : Peak Djokovic better than Peak Federer

[Djokovic2011]

You have done the latter at least in order to pump up Novak's achievements. All you've managed to do is annoy people who are fans of Federer that have followed him pretty much his whole career that know from simply watching the matches Federer wasn't playing his absolute best - even though he was still a tough player to defeat (and full credit to Novak for that).

You seem to have softened towards Djokovic since his injury timeout Saby which is nice to see and yet where Murray's concerned you've gone in the complete opposite direction!

 

[metsman]

Hewitt's shown he has a good level on grass by beating Sampras and Federer on the surface multiple times.

And no, defeating that version of Djokovic isn't even a mountain to climb. Would hardly even call it a molehill. He was absolutely gassed and done for that tournament after his match against Del Potro.

Wait, you mean beating a guy winning 52% of points on serve with a -9 differential on grass with the most generous scorers of all time isn't some epic task?

 

[Deleted member 307496]

No, you're right. Murray's route to eventual victory over Novak Djokovic was so much tougher than defeating the titanic barrier of Jonas Björkman, Grégory Carraz, Julian Knowle, Mikhail Youzhny, Sjeng Schalken, Tim Henman and David Nalbandian

Want me to start posting Murray's draws dude?

Benjimen Becker, Lu, Youzhny, Verdasco, Janowicz and a gassed Djokovic are so much better dude.

 

[NatF]

Yeah, Roddick wasn't mentally up to the task 05 Wimby final or 07 AO. Did better in the USO meetings though, and even 09 AO was pretty good considering how ridiculous Fed was playing, would have been interesting to have seen them meet at 07 Wimby if Roddick didn't choke to Gasquet.

Not sure what happened at the AO tbh. He'd pushed Federer close a couple of times and won in Kooyong - an exhibition but still something which should have given him confidence. Obviously he didn't expect Federer to GOAT but Federer was even better in the first set of the USO final and he still came back fighting in the second...

 

[Deleted member 307496]

You seem to have softened towards Djokovic since his injury timeout Saby which is nice to see and yet where Murray's concerned you've gone in the complete opposite direction!

Overration annoys me. And I wasn't BSing about liking Djokovic more.

After weeding out all the Nadal fans pretending to be Djokovic fans I can safely say only a couple of you are that bad. Just don't want to hear the crap arguments again when Djokovic returns to a decent level.

 

[killerboi2]

Great points. Federer, who won the tournament the year before and again four years later was past his best. I'm starting to see we have some insightful readers of the game on these boards.

If Fed was facing the same guys he was in his peak, he'd have around 7-8 slams no problem after 2012. Not bad for a guy so past it.

 

[metsman]

Want me to start posting Murray's draws dude?

Benjimen Becker, Lu, Youzhny, Verdasco, Janowicz and a gassed Djokovic are so much better dude.

The Verdasco-Murray match was one of the funniest I've seen in my life. How Murray made that go 7-5 in the 5th I will truly never know.

 

[Spencer Gore]

Want me to start posting Murray's draws dude?

Benjimen Becker, Lu, Youzhny, Verdasco, Janowicz and a gassed Djokovic are so much better dude.

Great point. We all know playing Djokovic is a walk in the park compared to facing the might of Nalbandian. I don't know how Hewitt pulled it off.

 

[Spencer Gore]

If Fed was facing the same guys he was in his peak, he'd have around 7-8 slams no problem after 2012. Not bad for a guy so past it.

I agree entirely. Thank goodness tennis got out of the slump it was in during Federer's "peak" (he was the only truly bright spot apart from the teenage Nadal) and some world class competition eventually came along.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Great point. We all know playing Djokovic is a walk in the park compared to facing the might of Nalbandian. I don't know how Hewitt pulled it off.

I can tell you've never played sport at any competitive level, or even tired yourself out enough to understand that Djokovic was DONE. Playing that Djokovic is about as bad as playing Nalbandian.

You won't get that though because you never watch matches. You just look at the names and reckon it was a good win.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

The Verdasco-Murray match was one of the funniest I've seen in my life. How Murray made that go 7-5 in the 5th I will truly never know.

Struggling with Verdasco on grass is truly LOLworthy stuff. This is an "ATG" player.

 

[killerboi2]

Djokovic was DONE

You talking about 2012 USO Djokovic? He would have smoked A Rod, the geriatric Andre and the Hewitt that got double bagled by Federer no problem.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

You talking about 2012 USO Djokovic? He would have smoked A Rod, the geriatric Andre and the Hewitt that got double bagled by Federer no problem.

2013 Wimbledon Djokovic. Going to argue that one?

Wouldn't be smoking '05 Hewitt though at the USO that year. Djokovic wasn't even as good at the 2012 US Open compared to the previous year or his level earlier in 2012.

 

[Spencer Gore]

I can tell you've never played sport at any competitive level, or even tired yourself out enough to understand that Djokovic was DONE. Playing that Djokovic is about as bad as playing Nalbandian.

You won't get that though because you never watch matches. You just look at the names and reckon it was a good win.

Yeah. Incredible insight. Murray was definitely a relieved man to look over the net that day and see legend of the game and soon to be 12-time slam winner, 26 year-old,Novak Djokovic, rather than single-time major finalist -David Nalbandian.

You know your stuff.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Yeah. Incredible insight. Murray was definitely a relieved man to look over the net that day and see legend of the game and soon to be 12-time slam winner, 26 year-old,Novak Djokovic, rather than single-time major finalist -David Nalbandian.

You know your stuff.

Sure know a lot more about tennis than you do bud.

Here we go about name over form again. Do you even watch tennis or just look at Wikipedia? You seriously reckon 2013 final Djokovic was a threat?

Freaking LOL.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

And I doubt Murray would think of any finalist as a pushover because he's a professional tennis player and not some keyboard warrior troll who can't even do that right.

 

[Spencer Gore]

Sure know a lot more about tennis than you do bud.

Here we go about name over form again. Do you even watch tennis or just look at Wikipedia? You seriously reckon 2013 final Djokovic was a threat?

Freaking LOL.

No. You're spot on. The 28th seeded all-time legend Nalbandian, fresh as a daisy from a 5 set semi-final was always going to be a far more difficult opponent to beat than that out of shape bum,Novak Djokovic.

 

[killerboi2]

Here we go about name over form again.

Nalbandian was in atrocious form in his sole Wimbledon final lmao. He can't beat Murray.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Nalbandian was in atrocious form in his sole Wimbledon final lmao. He can't beat Murray.

Was I saying he could? Derp. I said playing a gassed Djokovic ain't any better than playing Nalbandian.

You reckon the same Hewitt would lose to 2013 final Djokovic? Are you for real?

 

[Spencer Gore]

Nalbandian was in atrocious form in his sole Wimbledon final lmao. He can't beat Murray.

What!!! The all-conquering Nalbandian, striding through the majors year after year like a colossus! I'll never know how Hewitt pulled it off. Up there with Ashe's victory over Connors in the unexpected result against all the odds category. What Hewitt would have given to be handed the easy ride of 2013 Djokovic.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

No. You're spot on. The 28th seeded all-time legend Nalbandian, fresh as a daisy from a 5 set semi-final was always going to be a far more difficult opponent to beat than that out of shape bum,Novak Djokovic.

Wasn't more difficult but about the same.

Aw, go have a cry because I am debunking your name over form argument.

 

[killerboi2]

playing a gassed Djokovic ain't any better than playing Nalbandian.

Talking about a guy that took out the most fittest guys on tour in 5 set epics in 2012 AO and you wanna compare him to Nalbandian? Rotflmao.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

What Hewitt would have given to be handed the easy ride of 2013 Djokovic.

Roddick would've loved the chance to play that version of Djokovic.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Talking about a guy that took out the most fittest guys on tour in 5 set epics in 2012 AO and you wanna compare him to Nalbandian? Rotflmao.

Yeah bro, because Murray would totally trash 2014, 2015 or even 2011 Djokovic in GS finals. Djokovic was at his absolute apex in that match. Murray was just too good.

Think I vomited in my mouth a little.

 

[True Fanerer]

Been reading these heated exchanges, and I must say it is quite entertaining lol.

 

[Deleted member 77403]

This highest level ”thing” should be evaluated surface wise. I doubt djokovic has the highest level on grass. Someone there has 8 majors on that surface alone. Same on clay. The difference in the Number of majors between him and title leaders on those surfaces are way to big for him to even have an argument.

Fast HC? NO! Federer has 5 USO and truckloads of Cincy titles vs 2 and 0.

Slow HC? probably! I say probably because there’s only one title difference between him and the next best thing. *hiding from @Hitman *


Number of titles at every major should decide which player has the highest level on every surface.

Consistency doesn’t equal peak level but, you can argue that even when not playing at their absolute best, the consistent player is able to win.

You cannot hide from The Hitman @Incognito

Probably? - You know as well as everyone else, that Federer won a fast HC slam at AO this year, since you are referring to only one title difference between them, it is obvious you are referencing AO. Djokovic not only has the same amount of IW titles, but double the amount of Miami titles and has won more titles on the slower indoor WTF surface in London than Federer has. Djokovic has notably more success in Canada also, which is a perceptibly slower surface than Cincy.

 

[NoleFam]

Nalbandian was in atrocious form in his sole Wimbledon final lmao. He can't beat Murray.

He really was and I remember watching that match and just being embarrassed for him honestly. The dude made just 10 winners and 41 unforced errors (and this is on grass) and just won 6 games. I think the moment was just too much for him.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

He really was and I remember watching that match and just being embarrassed for him honestly. The dude made just 14 winners and 46 unforced errors (and this is on grass) and just won 6 games. I think the moment was just too much for him.

But do you reckon Djokovic was at his absolute peak in the 2013 Wimbledon final like Spence and killerboi2 here think?

 

[True Fanerer]

Djokovic was up a break in the 2nd and 3rd sets of the Wimbledon 2013 final. He double faulted on break point at a crucial point in the match. He committed twice as many unforced errors than Andy. Plus he showed NO signs of fatigue. If the match had went 4-5 sets: I could see his semi being a factor.Djokovic just played bad in the key moments and had the entire stadium and country of Britain against him. Murray was just steady and won the damn thing. That's all I have to say about that.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Djokovic was up a break in the 2nd and 3rd sets of the Wimbledon 2013 final. He double faulted on break point at a crucial point in the match. He committed twice as many unforced errors than Andy. Plus he showed NO signs of fatigue. If the match had went 4-5 sets then I could see his semi vs Nalbandian being a factor. Djokovic just played bad in the key moments and had the entire stadium and country of Britain against him. Murray was just steady and won the damn thing. That's all I have to say about that.

Murray got more rest than Djokovic. Like a day more or something. Dude was not his usual self, come on now.

 

[True Fanerer]

Murray got more rest than Djokovic. Like a day more or something. Dude was not his usual self, come on now.

Meant to say Delpo. Anyways it was a long long match I agree. Its just hard to see a guy being up a break two sets in a row being fatigued.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Meant to say Delpo. Anyways it was a long long match I agree. Its just hard to see a guy being up a break two sets in a row being fatigued.

Well they are both big guys from Argentina. Lol.

 

[NoleFam]

But do you reckon Djokovic was at his absolute peak in the 2013 Wimbledon final like Spence and killerboi2 here think?

Djokovic did not play his best and I think we all can agree with that and he had the much tougher SF, but to try to equate his performance against the British #1 with Nalbandian's "no show" in that Wimbledon final is stretching it. Just take a look at these stats and then say Nalbandian was on the same level of opponent in that final as Djokovic. Draw the conclusion for yourself.

 

[True Fanerer]

Well they are both big guys from Argentina. Lol.

Lol I think I had still had Nalbandian on the brain reading that portion of the thread which was hilarious btw.

 

[Spencer Gore]

Murray got more rest than Djokovic. Like a day more or something. Dude was not his usual self, come on now.

"Nalbandian was much tougher than Djokovic, wasn't he Doctor?"

"Of course, Sabratha...Nurse!!!"

"I mean, Djokovic was famed for showing fatigue in three set matches! Nalbandian was a monster. ! It was like taking on King Kong and Godzilla in a tag team!"

"Yes, yes. Don't stress yourself...Nurse! Hurry, please"

"He was the 28th best player in the world for goodness sake! Haven't these people played professional sports!!! A guy in his first and only final is at his most dangerous! Like facing a wild beast!"

"I know. I know. Now this won't hurt. Just a little sting and it'll all be better..."

"Nalbandian won 67 points that day. How did Hewitt survive? That's the question!"

"You're right. Hewitt was immense. And Djokovic was running on empty. against Murray He's never had stamina. Now close your eyes and try to rest."

"I knew I was right, doctor. Nalbandian's a nightmare opponent. Djokovic was gassed...He was gassed...Nalbandian...gassed...Nalba....gasse...ga...."

"Ok, nurse. It's under control. Bring the jacket. And for goodness sake, don't let them go on Tennis Warehouse again. This always happens!"

 

[mike danny]

Simon AO 16 R4 >>>> Roddick of Wimbledon 04 final. Simon was much tougher for Djoko in AO 16 than Roddick was for fed in 04 W final. So simon is the better opponent.

Yes, Simon was tougher than Fed that same tournament. That's a perfectly valid statement.

 

[Nostradamus]

Playing against Djokovic, Nadal, I could go off the court and feel I played well.

“But against Roger, he just made me play bad. Hm…but if they are both at the top, I think Novak would beat Roger more times than the opposite.

“He moved so well, got so many balls back. That’s really tough for Roger because he might play too fast,he would panic a little bit. But it’s really tough to say.”

https://www.express.co.uk/sport/ten...ic-Roger-Federer-Robin-Soderling-Rafael-Nadal

roger is much better when they are at their at their best

 

[KINGROGER]

If Fed was facing the same guys he was in his peak, he'd have around 7-8 slams no problem after 2012. Not bad for a guy so past it.

Maybe he’d lose 1-2 AO but Rafa and Nole aren’t affecting his Wimbledon or USO titles much. The gains he’d make in his 30s would see him over 20 slams.

Great point. We all know playing Djokovic is a walk in the park compared to facing the might of Nalbandian. I don't know how Hewitt pulled it off.

Youre focusing too much on Hewitt and Nalbandian. Firstly Murray had his easy draw (2016). Secondly Hewitt and Roddick having to face peak Federer is much tougher than Djokovic who has been beaten by lesser players on many occasions in his prime.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

"Nalbandian was much tougher than Djokovic, wasn't he Doctor?"

"Of course, Sabratha...Nurse!!!"

"I mean, Djokovic was famed for showing fatigue in three set matches! Nalbandian was a monster. ! It was like taking on King Kong and Godzilla in a tag team!"

"Yes, yes. Don't stress yourself...Nurse! Hurry, please"

"He was the 28th best player in the world for goodness sake! Haven't these people played professional sports!!! A guy in his first and only final is at his most dangerous! Like facing a wild beast!"

"I know. I know. Now this won't hurt. Just a little sting and it'll all be better..."

"Nalbandian won 67 points that day. How did Hewitt survive? That's the question!"

"You're right. Hewitt was immense. And Djokovic was running on empty. against Murray He's never had stamina. Now close your eyes and try to rest."

"I knew I was right, doctor. Nalbandian's a nightmare opponent. Djokovic was gassed...He was gassed...Nalbandian...gassed...Nalba....gasse...ga...."

"Ok, nurse. It's under control. Bring the jacket. And for goodness sake, don't let them go on Tennis Warehouse again. This always happens!"

Why are you trying so hard bro? Am I getting under your skin or something?

Go outside and get some air - looks like you probably need it given you've been inside the house for about 3 months now and your lack of vitamin D has turned your skin a moonlit white.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Djokovic did not play his best and I think we all can agree with that and he had the much tougher SF, but to try to equate his performance against the British #1 with Nalbandian's "no show" in that Wimbledon final is stretching it. Just take a look at these stats and then say Nalbandian was on the same level of opponent in that final as Djokovic. Draw the conclusion for yourself.

Looking at the stats I guess Djokovic was the superior finalist but he was not great at all. The victory isn't out of the hands of Hewitt or Roddick at their peak like Murray (Hewitt was 21 at Wimbledon 2002, his best came when he was 23-24 when he started hitting bigger and playing a more powerful game/gained a bit of bulk).

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Actually I think 2002 Wimbledon Lleyton himself would have a great shot against that Djokovic. Sure he might drop a set or something but he would still win.

Djokovic just wasn't good in that match. Del Potro did his damage. Djokovic got revenge the next year anyway by beating a better finalist than Murray.

 

[Druss]

atleast get a better example, FFS.

Djokovic played cr*p in that AO 16 4R match, racking up 100 UEs.
Federer actually played pretty well in the Wim 04 final.

I think Simon’s tactics in that match had something to do with Djoko’s 100ufe’s. He almost pulled it off too!

 

[Druss]

Roddick played good in some of those finals but mentally he just isn't there vs Fed. I'd give prime Murray a better chance vs Fed because I think he is a better player generally and would have a better chance vs Fed in terms of head to head and mentally, even though his record vs top players isn't anything great either.

Murray’s record in slams vs peak Fed will be NO better than Roddick’s.

 

[Druss]

It's annoying when Djokovic fans say that Federer's level in 2015 is the same as 2004-2007. It really is annoying.

It's also annoying when Federer fans keep calling Federer grandpa. Especially those who say that Federer was grandpa in 2011-2012.

That’s retaliation for calling Djokovic a ‘baby’ in 2007/08 or Nadal a ‘baby’ in 2006/07.

It’s a 2-way traffic that started with the Nadal fans.

 

[axlrose]

It's annoying when Djokovic fans say that Federer's level in 2015 is the same as 2004-2007. It really is annoying.

It's also annoying when Federer fans keep calling Federer grandpa. Especially those who say that Federer was grandpa in 2011-2012.

Biologically, one could become a grandpa at 30. He makes a girl pregnant when he's 14, then his son makes a girl pregnant when he's 14, too.

 

[ARFED]

Depends on the opponents they played. Djokovic won his slams against the likes of Nadal and Federer. Federer's early opponents-with the exception of baby Nadal-weren't quite up to that standard.

So by your logic, if Federer lost more matches against Roddick (the same Roddick that would defeat Nadal in his peak years of 2008 and 2010, when being far past his peak himself and had a positive hth agains Djokovic) and Hewitt, somehow that would make him a greater player? Nice one. That is the "competition" myth that trolls cannot explain. There is no possible way for you to address that question in a reasonable way. Countless of other trolls tried and failed miserably, you included under other accounts.

 

[Deleted member 307496]

Biologically, one could become a grandpa at 30. He makes a girl pregnant when he's 14, then his son makes a girl pregnant when he's 14, too.

Yeah that's like the most unlikely scenario ever.

 

[Pete Player]

Has anybody raked up a chart of them losing to non-top-10s in slams?


——————————
On pain meds - all contributed matter and anti-matter subject to disclaimer

 

[metsman]

Yeah that's like the most unlikely scenario ever.

more likely than Federer being anywhere near his peak the last several years lol

 

[abmk]

I think Simon’s tactics in that match had something to do with Djoko’s 100ufe’s. He almost pulled it off too!

of course. But a better form djokovic wouldn't have fallen prey to it that much --- to rack up 100 UEs.