Tennis Elbow

[trigor]

Dear friends, I need your expert opinion. Up to about 9 months ago, I was playing with TW issue Donnay Pro One stick. I like(d) it. I tried many sticks out there, but none topped the smooth feel of my beloved Donnay (either racquets felt stiff, or not maneuvering well). About 9 months ago, I have tried Yonex Ezone DR 98, and instantly fell in love with it. I bought two, and Donnay has been collecting dust ever since.

I now started to experience pain in the playing arm's elbow. It's tennis elbow, based on research I did. I have two questions:

1. Could switching to Yonex Ezone DR 98 create the elbow issue? The Yonex stick is lighter.
2. What would you recommend to fight the tennis elbow? I am using some excercises, such as rubber bands pulling and twist thingie to strenghten the muscles.

Thanks!

 

[CopolyX]

first and foremost you have to heal the TE. whether it's due to a sudden trauma or the result of repetitive strain (over playing / bad form / timing is off) , once damaged, the elbow can be incredibly resistant to healing. patients with Tennis Elbow rarely take the time necessary to rest their elbow so it can heal completely.
I would see a professional to ensure . they will have to assess the severity. which may mean yes, rest ..no playing.
Sure it will include physical therapy, normally at home.
Physiotherapists commonly advise racquet sports players to strengthen their shoulder rotator cuff, scapulothoracic, and abdominal muscles.
This can realy help to reduce overcompensation in the wrist extensors during gross shoulder and arm movements.

As of the racquet, don't know what the cause is. Normally never just one...
Player with TE what it to be one easy fix...but...
From my long long time of playing this game, it usually is combination of issues.
Sorry for you. I have no clue...Not enough data for me to make a judgement call.
one, the body is smart... you are....understand it and really asset it ..

Once back you will have to make that call on what frame is best for you and your game..

All can tell you is the high number of injuries I see unfortunately very frequently with rec players are (in order of it cause or combination of):
Bad Form (especially the ones that do take lessons)
Over Playing (Pushing themselves to far )
No Stretching / No Exercising / No Post Recovery Methods / Bad Nutrition & Hydration
Wrong Tennis Equipment (Strings/polys, Frame, gear, shoes)

Non - TE related - I see lot of ankle and calf issues.
I always recommend great gear form the feet up.
Supportive and comfort - quality - high end tennis or basketball court shoes.
Ankle supports (level 1>3)
Compression gear (during and after tennis)


that is all I got for now..
CopolyX
have fun and play smart!

 

[Stretchy Man]

Welcome to the TE/GE club, Trigor. Now that you're a member I need to point out a few rules:

1. No poly. Those days are over for you now.
2. No tensions above 55lbs
3. No racquets above 65 RA
4. No big overheads

I think the Ezone 98 is probably heavy enough for the weight not to be an issue. It is a fairly soft racquet but I know my elbow didn't like it. Your elbow might come right just with exercises but you never know. Good luck.

 

[Prince Vegeta]

I had really bad tennis elbow after my first year of college tennis. I was playing a pure drive + and switched to the softer pure control line. I also went with a much heavier weight to absorb some of the vibrations. After that I started stringing my poly string at 42 lbs ; now 38 lbs. These three things, after some time off from playing, kept tennis elbow at bay.

The DR 98 is an awesome frame. First of all I'd take some time off from playing. Then drop the tension on your strings waaaay down. You can also add a few grams to the frame if you want, but don't over do it.

 

[danotje]

This:

This works instantly and thoroughly. Can't believe this isn't more widely known. I bought a couple of lacrosse balls since they are denser and don't slip on the wall.

 

[graycrait]

I advocate hard massage when TE is really hurting. If you want to play tennis and get better then get a POG 107, string with Ashaway Kevlar 16 x Ashaway Zyex Pro at 65/59lbs. Wait! Don't sue me, but it worked for me! I tried all the gadgets, dumbbells, stretching, etc. I call the POG strung with Ash Kev x Zyex my therapy racket.

 

[bageldog]

Dear friends, I need your expert opinion. Up to about 9 months ago, I was playing with TW issue Donnay Pro One stick. I like(d) it. I tried many sticks out there, but none topped the smooth feel of my beloved Donnay (either racquets felt stiff, or not maneuvering well). About 9 months ago, I have tried Yonex Ezone DR 98, and instantly fell in love with it. I bought two, and Donnay has been collecting dust ever since.

I now started to experience pain in the playing arm's elbow. It's tennis elbow, based on research I did. I have two questions:

1. Could switching to Yonex Ezone DR 98 create the elbow issue? The Yonex stick is lighter.
2. What would you recommend to fight the tennis elbow? I am using some excercises, such as rubber bands pulling and twist thingie to strenghten the muscles.

Thanks!

You developed tennis elbow after switching to a heavier racket. Your stroke mechanics from the lighter one probably mean you're either having to muscle the racket more, or your timing isn't right and you're mishitting more. My tennis and golfer elbow went away after switching from a soft heavy racket (ok Redondo, about 350 grams iirc), to a lighter one, even tho it was stiffer (PA lite, polarized 321 grams, 7 headlight). If you like the dr98, I highly recommend the Dr 98 lite, TE also resolved for me with that racket. Weight it up a little to your previous racket specs or just add 3 grams to 3/9, and enough to the handle to get the balance you like

 

[mugener]

I had TE for 1.5 years after playing with Kfactor 6.1 for almost 10yrs. I think this might have something to do with age as well. Anyhow, did some physio for 10 sessions and switched to lighter Ultra 100 with a softer multi X1 biphase. Now is almost 90% recoup.

 

[skydog]

Theraband Flexbar. I was able to continue playing tennis while doing the Flexbar exercises and the pain gradually went away.

Picked up TE playing a Pro Kennex Ki5 PSE with a poly / syngut hybrid. Can't get much heavier stock weight, so it was more of a technique thing on my one hand back hand. It was exacerbated by my jumpers knee which was causing me to not bend the knee enough causing me to bend the elbow on the backhand to compensate.

Stingwise, Kevlar / Monogut ZX hybrid is the way to go to get similar results of a poly hybrid without the pain of the poly hybrid.

 

[Dartagnan64]

It's never as simple as a racket and strings, although they play a role.

Age is probably the greatest factor. As we age the tendon's get less flexible and have poorer circulation. This sets up the chronic tendinopathy. It's rarely injury related and hence rest really has little to do with recovery for most people. Massage to bring in blood flow. Eccentric exercises to stretch and strengthen the tendons and muscles of the forearm. Softer rackets with softer string beds. These are all the keys.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I'd also strongly advise working on taking the ball out front more. Being late and shanking shots are a good way to bring on TE.

 

[Crocodile]

I am going to say that the DR 98 is light enough to cause arm problems and I would go to a heavier frame or add weight to yours.

 

[2HBH-DTL]

A good tool to use is a wooden massage tool like shown below. Hold on to the big roundish part and rub your tendons with the smaller part length wise down your forearm and the outside of your elbow up and down for about 2 mins. It'll get blood flowing and your forearm should heat up. Its a great preventative measure to use before and after a match. My elbow no longer hurts.

 

[PhxRacket]

A good tool to use is a wooden massage tool like shown below. Hold on to the big roundish part and rub your tendons with the smaller part length wise down your forearm and the outside of your elbow up and down for about 2 mins. It'll get blood flowing and you forearm should heat up. Its a great preventative measure to use before and after a match. My elbow no longer hurts.

Where is this available?

 

[2HBH-DTL]

My wife had it when she was doing massage therapy. I'm sure they can be bought online at any of those massage warehouse stores.

If you google "wooden massage tool" you'll be able to find it at an online store somewhere. It has helped me tremendously!! They key to prevent tennis elbow is to get that blood flowing in those tendons and muscles in that forearm so theyre already loose before you even pick up the racquet.

 

[2HBH-DTL]

Found it!

https://www.massagewarehouse.com/products/knobble-massage-tool/?F_All=Y

They've got others as well and this is just an example one. My wife has bought tools from this site when she was doing massage therapy. Kinda pricey for just a wooden knob thing but it's great for tennis elbow.

 

[PhxRacket]

Thanks 2HBH-DTL!
I re-injured my elbow. I picked up TE during a long, drawn out demo. It went away with rest, but has returned. I haven't played since February. I was looking into a Flexbar, and demoing new PKs when available.

 

[2HBH-DTL]

Flexbar is ok to try and condition the elbow more and to strengthen it some. I have the green flexbar but I don't use it very often anymore. I mainly focus on just massaging it with that wooden knob tool to get blood flowing. When it used to be really sore I would rub some biofreeze on the outside of the elbow as well.

 

[PhxRacket]

Flexbar is ok to try and condition the elbow more and to strengthen it some. I have the green flexbar but I don't use it very often anymore. I mainly focus on just massaging it with that wooden knob tool to get blood flowing. When it used to be really sore I would rub some biofreeze on the outside of the elbow as well.

I am relying on hat, stretching and an arnica balm. I try to avoid NSAIDs at all costs. Looks like another month and I will be Rudy for some light hitting or feeding balls to my son and his academy mates.

 

[PhxRacket]

*ready...autocorrect?!

 

[vandrewv2]

String pattern and string plus try putting a different base grip on the racket made for shock absorption and put a soft over grip on it like yonex super grap drop the tension dont play with a dead poly and follow through retouch up your game

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk

 

[vandrewv2]

I had TE for 1.5 years after playing with Kfactor 6.1 for almost 10yrs. I think this might have something to do with age as well. Anyhow, did some physio for 10 sessions and switched to lighter Ultra 100 with a softer multi X1 biphase. Now is almost 90% recoup.

Lol are you sure tennis elbow is so painful i couldn't imagine having it for a year let alone a week ill legit stop playing because the pain keeps me from sleeping and distracts me or ill switch rackets


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk

 

[Dartagnan64]

Lol are you sure tennis elbow is so painful i couldn't imagine having it for a year let alone a week ill legit stop playing because the pain keeps me from sleeping and distracts me or ill switch rackets


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G530AZ using Tapatalk

TE is a chronic tendinopathy and the pain is quite variable from person to person. In its severest forms it can be agonizing even doing simple tasks, in others its just a minor aggravation.

I never know why anyone would actually let it get to the agonizing stage before doing something about it. But some people do. As soon as i felt the first twinges, I started on stretching, massage, flexbar, altering rackets and strings. Never got bad enough to really bother me outside of that first shank in mini tennis. It's a bit sore if I touch the lateral epicondyle but I can function virtually 100% with a proper treatment and preventative regime.

 

[markwillplay]

It will heal in roughly a year give or take no matter what you do. Many orthos don't even treat it at all. I have had surgery on my right elbow 20 years ago for a case that would not heal. That was the exception. I had it in my left a couple of years ago...went to pt, ortho, etc. I was diligent about my therapy and in right at a year, the pain subsided. I now have it back in my right since last August from playing against someone who was crushing the ball and I was framing returns like crazy. Still with me a tad now but I can tell it is going away. I would under no circumstances get an injection. Been there done that...no way. Do the massages, follow the little video up there in the previous post...swing a stick that is soft (I play with prince tour 100). Try to protect it when you can but the good news is that your body will try to heal itself.

One ortho on a radio show one day told a caller that if she did therapy and treated it with everything she would as far as heat, ice, bla bla bla, that it would probably heal in a year. He then told her that if she did nothing it would heal in about 12 months...he laughed. I have found it to be true for me. 20 years ago I was doing things with my arm that would not let it heal...tennis was not one of them.

 

[mugener]

Lol are you sure tennis elbow is so painful i couldn't imagine having it for a year let alone a week ill legit stop playing because the pain keeps me from sleeping and distracts me or ill switch rackets


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I believe I am pretty sure TE is pretty painful as I am still suffering from it. By reading your comment, it aggravates even more.

 

[topspn]

I did acupuncture and reduced it to 30% in 3 sessions

 

[smalahove]

I'm experiencing my first serious TE right now, and here are my two cents:

It started when I switched to the new Pure Strikes, but imo it is not the stiffness of the frame in itself, as I didn't feel much of anything when I played them with the factory installed spiraltek (multi). Imo, the two main culprits are:

1. new racket (for me) = new weight, new flex, new vibrations (racket's vibr freq). The arm and body has to be given time to readjust. In my case, going down in weight (from DG97 310/330), meant I was able to swing much faster, and extend, pronate and flex faster as well. That puts a lot of (new) strain on the muscles.
   
   A similar process applies when going from a light to a heavier frame: you're swinging slower, but the muscles have to work in different manner, which also puts a lot of stress on the muscles.
   
   
2. strings: when I broke the spiraltek pretty fast (for me), I switched to a thin poly, which also broke faster than usual (cyclone 19). By then I started feeling small discomfort at times, that were aggravated by the lack of warm up. I went back to one of my trusted DG97 310s, which I knew had a low RA, but more importantly it was strung as a 16x19 (instead of 16x20) with V-star 18, which is a soft poly that looses tension fast, so my guess is that we're talking low 40s, perhaps lower.
   
   
3. bad technique: the ohbh is often the main culprit for those of us who use it. The (incorrect) tightening of the muscles upon impact reeks havoc on the arm. The same goes for serving, but the diff there, is that even with a sound technique you can still do some serious damage. In my case, the overtraining of kick serves with the new frames was prob. the main cause. It's easy to get carried away when you are pleased with the results but want more.

Solutions (for me):

• using a racket your body and arm is familiar with, that you know does no harm to either.
• using a softer string setup than usual, i.e. softer string and lower tension
• if you change racket, consider a more open/wider string pattern in a bigger frame.
• use a TE tightening-strap used over the arm muscle (it works!)
• consider using voltaren/voltarol medicine (NSAID)
• avoid or reduce the movement that causes pain (serve and ohbh for my part)

And I forgot one of the most important things you should avoid:

If you, like me, spend quite a bit of your free time with a laptop or mobile phone, your arm does not get enough rest. The flexing (of the wrist) that occurs naturally when using a laptop w a mousepad (?) is enough by itself to cause TE. So if you use a computer at work as well, you're not giving your arm enough time to heal.

• Try to use your non-dominant arm for mobile/laptop use and surfing, as much as you can. It works.

 

[pfrischmann]

Do you have a one-handed back hand?

 

[Morch Us]

From the specs YDR98 still seem like an arm friendly frame with 62 flex/6pts HL/11.5oz. So I don't think you can blame it on the racket. Few things I would recommend in the order of priority is

1. REST. Trying to strengthen the injured elbow/muscle with exercise may not help much. The strengthening exercises should be before the injury. After you develop the tennis elbow the best method is rest the arm till you feel better. You can do some massaging to enhance the healing process. Once it is healed properly, you can start with light stretches.

2. loosen your grip. Make sure you are not squeezing your grip too hard on ground strokes. Loosen them up till the point that you almost feel like the racket will fly out of your hand if you loosen more.

3. technique. It doesn't matter what level you are, there is always room for improvement in technique. Double/Tripple check if there is anything in your technique causing you to muscle the ball with arm more, and if there is fix it.

4. strings. If you hit mostly flat or depend on more volleys or play more doubles, you may not really need poly strings. Try multifilament strings.

5. tensions. If your game is more of baseline extreme topspin kind, and cannot avoid using poly strings, then learn to swing using lower tensions on poly (45lbs or so).

1. Could switching to Yonex Ezone DR 98 create the elbow issue? The Yonex stick is lighter.
2. What would you recommend to fight the tennis elbow? I am using some excercises, such as rubber bands pulling and twist thingie to strenghten the muscles.

 

[trigor]

Do you have a one-handed back hand?

I do.

 

[trigor]

Thank you everyone for the wealth of information. I did grab a massager and the flex bar. Taking a break. Will lower the tension on my sticks. Will try to hit ball much earlier. Thank you all again for taking the time to share your experience with this nagging issue.

 

[balljunkie]

i had TE for 3 years and been to 4 dr with no success. The last option was surgery to remove old bad scare tissue. I was able to play again 6 months after the operation. Fast forward a 1 year from the surgery, i have zero pain. zero. However when i do change string or try new rackets and feel something i stop immediately and go back to something that works on my arm. This is my personal experience.

 

[pfrischmann]

Good luck!
I asked if you had a OHBH because they are often TE sufferers. If you are hitting your backhand late and not at full extension, it puts a lot of stress on that tendon if you are not fully extended.

 

[tmc5005]

My current top 10 list of arm /elbow friendly racquets includes:
Yonex EZone DR 98
HEAD XT Graphene MP
PACIFIC BXT X Tour Pro 97
PRINCE Textreme Tour 100P
Volkl Vsense 10 325g
Pro Kennex Kinetic KI Q Tour
Pro Kennex QI K5 315
Head Graphene Touch Speed Pro
Wilson 2015 Blade 98 18×20
WILSON Pro Staff 97S

 

[PhxRacket]

My current top 10 list of arm /elbow friendly racquets includes:
Yonex EZone DR 98
HEAD XT Graphene MP
PACIFIC BXT X Tour Pro 97
PRINCE Textreme Tour 100P
Volkl Vsense 10 325g
Pro Kennex Kinetic KI Q Tour
Pro Kennex QI K5 315
Head Graphene Touch Speed Pro
Wilson 2015 Blade 98 18×20
WILSON Pro Staff 97S

What about Volkl C10 Pro?

 

[flanker2000fr]

Dear friends, I need your expert opinion. Up to about 9 months ago, I was playing with TW issue Donnay Pro One stick. I like(d) it. I tried many sticks out there, but none topped the smooth feel of my beloved Donnay (either racquets felt stiff, or not maneuvering well). About 9 months ago, I have tried Yonex Ezone DR 98, and instantly fell in love with it. I bought two, and Donnay has been collecting dust ever since.

I now started to experience pain in the playing arm's elbow. It's tennis elbow, based on research I did. I have two questions:

1. Could switching to Yonex Ezone DR 98 create the elbow issue? The Yonex stick is lighter.
2. What would you recommend to fight the tennis elbow? I am using some excercises, such as rubber bands pulling and twist thingie to strenghten the muscles.

Thanks!

Very sorry to hear about your TE. I got one last year, before I had started playing tennis again. The way I injured myself was, wait for it, hoovering for an hour in the new flat I just moved into. That's what age does (I am 47).

As other have pointed, the first thing to do is to rest for a few weeks. Then, what I found worked well for me were:
- electroacupuncture
- deep tissue massages

A few sessions of those should start to alleviate the discomfort.

Then, when the pain is mostly gone, you need to build strength in your arm as TE is caused by overuse, i.e. your muscles are not strong enough to withstand the effort you put on them (e.g. deceleration of the racquet after a serve). I found that a good way was to use this simple exercise:

Regarding the racquet:

- when I started playing again, I (foolishly) decided to play with vintage Kneissl's that were 13+ ounces. That had my TE flare again
- then I went for a Wilson PS97, that was much better, but would still fatigue my arm, and the pain would eventually flare after 1 hour
- I have been playing with the Yonex Ezone DR 98 for a few weeks, and the pain is totally gone

That Yonex has got to be one of the most arm friendly racquet that there is in the market, with a stiffness rated at 62, so I really doubt that the frame itself is causing the damage. Not sure what kind of string you are using, but perhaps consider a soft multifilament like the Wilson NXT or, if you can afford it, natural gut, strung low / medium (< 50 lbs).

Good luck.

 

[Tommy Haas]

When all else fails, consider prolotherapy. Dextrose and PRP for severe cases. It's non invasive, but expensive.

 

[nvr2old]

When all else fails, consider prolotherapy. Dextrose and PRP for severe cases. It's non invasive, but expensive.

I have a very close friend who is a Physical Medicine and Rehab physician who does this for patients. Not sure if he's done it for TE but he does for a variety of other things. Ken

ps funny, watching Stuttgart and your match right now

 

[briancheng]

I have had a few bouts with tennis elbow in the past few years and the two racquets with which I can play completely pain free are the DR98 and the Wilson PS97S. Using a Gut/Poly combination will reduce arm strain, but given the expense associated with gut, playing with a softer poly string at low tension should also work. MY DR98 is strung up at 48 lbs (Luxilon 4G) with no real loss in control or feel. I also think that the Wilson Blade 98 (the 2015 version) was arm friendly as was the Prince Textreme 95. The Textreme 100P was decent in terms of comfort but I could feel my arm a bit afterwards whereas I had no real arm hangover after hitting with the DR98.

Otherwise, try getting you hands on an older IG Prestige MP, a Pro Kennex Redondo or a Prince Tour 100 for some very soft and comfortable frames.

 

[topspn]

Don’t forget acupuncture! Works great

 

[trigor]

Good luck!
I asked if you had a OHBH because they are often TE sufferers. If you are hitting your backhand late and not at full extension, it puts a lot of stress on that tendon if you are not fully extended.

Totally guilty of this. Although, in my mind, my stroke is perfect and I am Wawrinka. )))))

 

[movdqa]

There are a ton of TE threads in the health and injuries forums and there's a good amount of advice.

Basically, try every method you can in parallel to get over it and then try equipment with characteristics known to avoid TE.

 

[tennisBIEST]

Wrong thread

 

[ByeByePoly]

This:

This works instantly and thoroughly. Can't believe this isn't more widely known. I bought a couple of lacrosse balls since they are denser and don't slip on the wall.

Tip: put a tennis ball in a sock and throw over shoulder for hard to reach spots on back. Then just press back on ball against wall, and move arm/head/neck around depending on what you are working on. I have had a severe crick in the neck (to where it felt like pinched nerve was imminent) release instantaneously. I found the knots (couple of them) in the back of neck ... pressed against ball/wall ... and turned head left and right. I literally felt the pop ... scared me the first time. Neck issue gone ... as if it never happened.

That said ... not sure if I buy that technique for forearm with TE. I would go with rollerbar for massage, and flexbar eccentric load for rehab. Post TE I still use the rollerbar (forearm and tricep) almost daily. I use the flexbar some ... but only every now and then. I think the main thing that helps prevent injury is likely keeping muscles loose, not building Popeye forearms. JMO.

I like this guy, and his website:

http://www.do-it-yourself-joint-pain-relief.com

 

[n8dawg6]

heroin works great for tennis elbow

 

[heninfan99]

I agree with CopolyX, it is best to rehab it fully as tennis elbow is resistant to healing. Most people that play through it never fully heal.

I would get your technique assessed by a pro and go for a heavy, soft racquet that will eat much of the vibrations and shock.

 

[n8dawg6]

shoot, mine healed right up after i took a couple months off this past winter. its nothing more than an overuse injury. poly strings accelerate the overuse, more or less.

 

[movdqa]

shoot, mine healed right up after i took a couple months off this past winter. its nothing more than an overuse injury. poly strings accelerate the overuse, more or less.

Many would consider taking a few months off cruel and unusual punishment.

 

[grhcan99]

Playing with POG helped with mine. And I also made some changes to my stroke mechanics. Wrist and tennis elbow pain have not recurred. Helps too that I string at very low tensions (high 30's - low 40's)

 

[Tommy Haas]

Would doing the Tyler twist using a Flexbar before playing help as a TE prevention warm up exercise?