Tension issue / technique question about portable stringing machine

[Sardines]

For a shop using claws over fixed, if they are still in business and surviving, they must be doing something right and I'm not going to question why they do it.
One of the more lesser know areas of physics you may not know is that because most stringing machines pull at an angle, there is loss of tension. A machine like the Pro Stringer pulls directly at the racquet with no angle except for the throat mains, and that's less than 3° vs the 10+° of the more popular systems. Combined with the good grip of the claws, the overall string bed tension is comparable to professional tournament stringers, which is my regular guy, whom I still send my gut/poly hybrids to because I can't bother to prestretch manually.

There is "no way" you can convince "anyone" with any knowledge of stringing, tools, physics, and just plain common sense
that using floating clamps is in any way superior to fixed clamps.

I understand trying to "sell" them, but i fail to see it as a service to stringing customers in any fashion. It simply isn't.

If you want to sell such, set them up on a dropweight and have at it. Prove their real value, which is not as a better alternative
to fixed clamps, it's simply a better floating clamp......and even though i haven't touched one i do know that clamping to the machine
vs. another string would always be preferable in such a setting that allows for a Bairdo or similar.

Also, 6 point machines don't block holes unless you set them up that way.

 

[am1899]

Seems almost like some folks have found some of Jaycee’s Kool-Aid and are drowning themselves in it…

 

[Rabbit]

That Jay C stuff is crap. It sounds like something earwig would dream up.

 

[Sardines]

Well I think those who haven't done detailed comparisons of the 2 different stringing methods/machines and are only giving opinions/suppositions based on what they know/do, are really the ones who are biased? They don't have to believe any posts on TT, but if veiled disparagement of strangers who are in the community is the primary motivation of a post, then maybe reconsider before hitting Post Reply? It would make the forum a much more pleasant space for exchange of info and ideas, which is the point , I would hope.

 

[Irvin]

@Sardines some people think it’s their way or the highway. My ignore list has grown a lot this year. There are so many posters that have nothing to offer but trash talk.

 

[Irvin]

For a shop using claws over fixed, if they are still in business and surviving, they must be doing something right and I'm not going to question why they do it.

Not only surviving they are thriving. They are a TW competitor or I would post their name.

 

[struggle]

Nothing stated yet has legitimized the use of floating clamps over fixed clamps from a stringing perspective.

From a business standpoint, in order to sell a product, maybe so. But not as a better service to its' customers.

Otherwise, no. And this isn't trash talk, just simple logic.

I'm just gonna guess that most at the "TW competitor" have zero clue as to who is stringing their sticks nor on what equipment. Again,
simple logic.

Promoting the use of floating clamps over fixed is absurd. Again, just simple logic.

 

[Sardines]

Well your logic is skewed and thus reduced to opinion, because you assume all things being equal. In reality, there are differences in how each stringer works and how each machine (fixed or flying) functions.
Bottomline, logic dictates IF customers feel the product is not up to expectations, they will not return/ask for money back/write a YELP thrashing the business, BBB complaint etc. Any business, which then doesn't adjust to improve, will eventually die out, unless they have deep pockets, which can sustain a loss margin. If said business is surviving, and maybe even thriving, on whatever services they are doing, then perhaps the idea isn't absurd but works in its favor as a differential to conventional techniques. Your opinions of their methodology as lesser or "wrong" are irrelevant to this business.
The real comparison is about what works in performance and not a theoretical consistency that is measured on an ERT, stringmeter etc. The player has to like and play well with the string job. Just as there are variations in specs of racquets, there are also variations in stringers and their machines. I've used stringers in tournaments and local shops around the world, and each place the string bed comes back noticeably different, but more importantly, within my abilities as a player to use. Were more than a few of the jobs horribly off? Definitely! And all were fixed clamps! I prefer my PS2.0 string job over many other stringers, because it's strung for me. Go figure.

Nothing stated yet has legitimized the use of floating clamps over fixed clamps from a stringing perspective.

From a business standpoint, in order to sell a product, maybe so. But not as a better service to its' customers.

Otherwise, no. And this isn't trash talk, just simple logic.

I'm just gonna guess that most at the "TW competitor" have zero clue as to who is stringing their sticks nor on what equipment. Again,
simple logic.

Promoting the use of floating clamps over fixed is absurd. Again, just simple logic.

 

[struggle]

Sorry, you're mistaken.

Glad you like your gadget, but this was about using floating clamps vs fixed on a well documented tournament style machine.
All else being equal, fixed clamps are preferred. Check the major tournament stringing rooms and see what is preferred.

 

[FIRETennis]

Sorry, you're mistaken.

Glad you like your gadget, but this was about using floating clamps vs fixed on a well documented tournament style machine.
All else being equal, fixed clamps are preferred. Check the major tournament stringing rooms and see what is preferred.

No, this thread is about portable stringing machines - which actually use floating clamps.

 

[am1899]

LOL here we go again.

For me this debate has a lot to do with the person behind the machine than the equipment being used. A competent stringer can make just about any setup work for them to turn out consistent work.

That said, it’s no coincidence that you will hardly ever (if at all) find any professional tournament stringing room using floating clamps.

 

[Sardines]

No, this thread is about portable stringing machines - which actually use floating clamps.

Good to know you enjoy your Claws. They aren't perfect but which machine is? The claws certainly do the job well enough.

 

[struggle]

No, this thread is about portable stringing machines - which actually use floating clamps.

Actually this tangent WAS about floating clamps. Tangent provided by fritz/Irving (imagine that).

 

[Saitamaxpunch1]

I wouldn't tighten the clamps so much that you need a lot of force to clamp and unclamp. This could damage your strings.
I also pull 2-3kg extra on the tieoff mains and cross. There is quite a lot of tension loss there. I'm sure there are much more experienced stringers here that use flying clamps that could provide some general tips but the above is the best I have found. The portability is amazing compared to a regular stringing machine and comparing to inconsistent string jobs that I used to get from various shops, the learning curve was worth every minute spent on it.

Hello FireTennis, I've since ordered one of the Pro Stringer clamps to see if it improves things. Love the clamps, and the quality is great - but do get some twisting on release - possibly due to the claws lacking some width.

I've been stringing each string at 55lbs, but the max final tension I achieve is 44 to 47 lbs. Not sure how I can reach my target of 51 lbs, might need to string everything at 62 lbs - but feels excessive. Not sure if you've had any luck getting to 50lbs + tension at all

 

[FIRETennis]

Hello FireTennis, I've since ordered one of the Pro Stringer clamps to see if it improves things. Love the clamps, and the quality is great - but do get some twisting on release - possibly due to the claws lacking some width.

I've been stringing each string at 55lbs, but the max final tension I achieve is 44 to 47 lbs. Not sure how I can reach my target of 51 lbs, might need to string everything at 62 lbs - but feels excessive. Not sure if you've had any luck getting to 50lbs + tension at all

I'm not sure a single claw is enough.. are you using the metal claw on one side of the frame and the plastic one on the other?
Do you use both clamps when stringing crosses?
What string & gauge is it and what string factor are you using in RacquetTune?
You could also make a video of you stringing from A to Z and send it to the Easystringer guys for assistance with technique. They were extremely helpful and have great support.

 

[liftordie]

Is the second version of the clamps is better with Easy Stringer v2?

And please can someone using Easy Stringer post a video of the stringing process from the ABSOLUTE start to the VERY end... I'm a total newbie and I don't understand how to start the first mains etc etc...
There is many videos on the net but nothing really precise from the very start of the stringing job!! That's so annoying for a real newbie!!!
I want to string two piece.
Thanks a lot!!!

 

[FIRETennis]

Is the second version of the clamps is better with Easy Stringer v2?

And please can someone using Easy Stringer post a video of the stringing process from the ABSOLUTE start to the VERY end... I'm a total newbie and I don't understand how to start the first mains etc etc...
There is many videos on the net but nothing really precise from the very start of the stringing job!! That's so annoying for a real newbie!!!
I want to string two piece.
Thanks a lot!!!

Can't comment on V2 as I use V1 with metal clamps from ProStringer. I would recommend buying just the stringing machine from Easystringer and not the kit and purchase separate clamps from ProStringer or Stringway. If you don't need the portability/size feature, just get yourself a cheap dropweight machine.

Here is a video I found online. The mains part is correct but he is wrong on the crosses:

You need to weave the first cross, then weave the second too and then pull tension and clamp so that the two strings are clamped together. I usually pull 1-2kg extra on the top two because of this. A disadvantage of flying clamps...

More vids on youtube.. or you can ask the Easystringer guys to send you some. They are very helpful.

 

[liftordie]

Can't comment on V2 as I use V1 with metal clamps from ProStringer. I would recommend buying just the stringing machine from Easystringer and not the kit and purchase separate clamps from ProStringer or Stringway. If you don't need the portability/size feature, just get yourself a cheap dropweight machine.

Here is a video I found online. The mains part is correct but he is wrong on the crosses:

You need to weave the first cross, then weave the second too and then pull tension and clamp so that the two strings are clamped together. I usually pull 1-2kg extra on the top two because of this. A disadvantage of flying clamps...

More vids on youtube.. or you can ask the Easystringer guys to send you some. They are very helpful.

Thanks.
Are you clamping two crosses each time? And aslo are you clamping two mains each time? Why not clamping only one string after pulling tension? I don't understand that...

Also are you using a starting clamp for crosses?

 

[esm]

Thanks.
Are you clamping two crosses each time? And aslo are you clamping two mains each time? Why not clamping only one string after pulling tension? I don't understand that...

Also are you using a starting clamp for crosses?

The reason for two mains each time is because it is floating clamp setup.
When I used to use X-2, I used both floating clamps on the crosses and used starting knot. A starting clamp can be used if you have one, unseats of using one of the floating clamps.

 

[FIRETennis]

Thanks.
Are you clamping two crosses each time? And aslo are you clamping two mains each time? Why not clamping only one string after pulling tension? I don't understand that...

Also are you using a starting clamp for crosses?

I use a starting knot on the first cross, not a starting clamp.
Yes, I weave the first three c, pull tension on #2 then clamp with the flying clamp cross #1 and cross #2.
Then I weave #4, pull tension on #3 and clamp with my second flying clamp #2 and #3. Always weaving one ahead, I would weave #5, pull tension on #4 and clamp #3 and #4 with the first flying clamp.

 

[liftordie]

I use a starting knot on the first cross, not a starting clamp.
Yes, I weave the first three c, pull tension on #2 then clamp with the flying clamp cross #1 and cross #2.
Then I weave #4, pull tension on #3 and clamp with my second flying clamp #2 and #3. Always weaving one ahead, I would weave #5, pull tension on #4 and clamp #3 and #4 with the first flying clamp.

Is it possible to use a flying clamp as a starting clamp, right? Why the need of a specific starting clamp??

 

[esm]

Is it possible to use a flying clamp as a starting clamp, right? Why the need of a specific starting clamp??

Yea you can (have done it once or twice…) and too bulky to use as dedicated starting clamp (and you won’t get a floating clamp with fixed clamp machines anyway…)

 

[liftordie]

Yea you can (have done it once or twice…) and too bulky to use as dedicated starting clamp (and you won’t get a floating clamp with fixed clamp machines anyway…)

I think to buy the Easy Stringer, so no fixed clamps.
But I don't know if I really need to buy a starting clamp, if I can use one of the two flying clamps as a starting clamp... What's the real advantage of a specific starting clamp?

 

[FIRETennis]

I think to buy the Easy Stringer, so no fixed clamps.
But I don't know if I really need to buy a starting clamp, if I can use one of the two flying clamps as a starting clamp... What's the real advantage of a specific starting clamp?

You can just use a starting knot (two loops and pull through and tension it once) for the crosses.
You don't need to buy an expensive starting clamp.
Ask yourself if you need the portability and compactness of the EasyStringer -- if yes, go for it.
If you have space for a drop weight and don't need portability, go for a drop weight with fixed clamps.

 

[liftordie]

You can just use a starting knot (two loops and pull through and tension it once) for the crosses.
You don't need to buy an expensive starting clamp.
Ask yourself if you need the portability and compactness of the EasyStringer -- if yes, go for it.
If you have space for a drop weight and don't need portability, go for a drop weight with fixed clamps.

Have you a good video to how making a starting knot please?

 

[FIRETennis]

Have you a good video to how making a starting knot please?

Youtube is the answer...

 

[liftordie]

@FIRETennis
Does this one 100% correct?

 

[esm]

@FIRETennis
Does this one 100% correct?

Gees… do not follow this one.

 

[liftordie]

Gees… do not follow this one.

What's the problem?

 

[FIRETennis]

@FIRETennis
Does this one 100% correct?

Ugh no! You can't use flying clamps on only 1 string!
I kinda do it this way

 

[struggle]

You CAN use a flying clamp on one string (as evidenced in this video), but it's bad form
and pending the string, could cause some real problems.

The FC could also be used as a starting clamp, if need be. Put some scrap string in the other side...

 

[liftordie]

Ok so I can do exactly the same but with clamping two strings?
And does I have to clamp two strings also for the crosses?

 

[FIRETennis]

You CAN use a flying clamp on one string (as evidenced in this video), but it's bad form
and pending the string, could cause some real problems.

The FC could also be used as a starting clamp, if need be. Put some scrap string in the other side...

Flying clamps need the second/third string in order to clamp properly. What he's doing in that video is just hoping the mains hold the clamp in place.

 

[liftordie]

Flying clamps need the second/third string in order to clamp properly. What he's doing in that video is just hoping the mains hold the clamp in place.

Ok so I can do exactly the same but with clamping two strings at time, right?

 

[FIRETennis]

Ok so I can do exactly the same but with clamping two strings at time, right?

yes, see 5:45 in the video I posted above.

 

[liftordie]

Thank you very much for your help @FIRETennis
My Easy Stringer is coming home! I hope the clamps will be OK. That's the latest version of the clamps, they are better quality than the first generation. I will see...
I also ordered a Pro's Pro starting clamp for the crosses. I like the idea of making the knots at the very end...
Are you using starting clamp for the crosses?

 

[struggle]

Flying clamps need the second/third string in order to clamp properly. What he's doing in that video is just hoping the mains hold the clamp in place.

yes

 

[FIRETennis]

Thank you very much for your help @FIRETennis
My Easy Stringer is coming home! I hope the clamps will be OK. That's the latest version of the clamps, they are better quality than the first generation. I will see...
I also ordered a Pro's Pro starting clamp for the crosses. I like the idea of making the knots at the very end...
Are you using starting clamp for the crosses?

Watch the video above from 4:18. I use a similar technique without a starting clamp although he does the knot and then weaves the first cross, I prefer to weave the cross from the other side, do the starting knot, pull tension and then weave the second cross. I have a cheapo Pro's Pro starting clamp that sucks because it doesn't hold tension that well imo and honestly I just use it for tying the knots. You can just use pliers though. If you want to make the knot at the very end, then you need to invest in a quality starting clamp.. try Gamma around €65 in EU / $50 in US. https://www.tenniswarehouse-europe.com/Gamma_Stringers_Starting_Clamp/descpage-GCLAMP-EN.html

 

[liftordie]

Watch the video above from 4:18. I use a similar technique without a starting clamp although he does the knot and then weaves the first cross, I prefer to weave the cross from the other side, do the starting knot, pull tension and then weave the second cross. I have a cheapo Pro's Pro starting clamp that sucks because it doesn't hold tension that well imo and honestly I just use it for tying the knots. You can just use pliers though. If you want to make the knot at the very end, then you need to invest in a quality starting clamp.. try Gamma around €65 in EU / $50 in US. https://www.tenniswarehouse-europe.com/Gamma_Stringers_Starting_Clamp/descpage-GCLAMP-EN.html

It seems to be exactly the same than the Pro's Pro but red and 3 times the price...

 

[FIRETennis]

It seems to be exactly the same than the Pro's Pro but red and 3 times the price...

Seems but it's not. I have the Pro's Pro, my friend has the Gamma. IMHO, the Pro's Pro starting clamp is junk and strings slip like crazy in it even when tying knots but for how I use it, it's good enough.

 

[liftordie]

Seems but it's not. I have the Pro's Pro, my friend has the Gamma. IMHO, the Pro's Pro starting clamp is junk and strings slip like crazy in it even when tying knots but for how I use it, it's good enough.

That's strange because lot of people have no problem with it and others hate it...
I have one coming home so I will see...

 

[esm]

That's strange because lot of people have no problem with it and others hate it...
I have one coming home so I will see...

true. i have two and no issues with it. i use one for the knots and one to bridge the gap.
for holding the cross - i now use the Kimony.

 

[liftordie]

Ok guys... I did my very first stringing job with my Easy Stringer!!!
It was a very nice experience! But with some mistakes...
First, I really need to improve my Pernell knots...
Second, I don't know how to retension the first cross before tying the knot when using a starting clamp for the crosses?? (The Pro's Pro starting clamp do the job well, no slippage at all...).
The problem was that the first and second cross was way too loose...
How can I avoid this problem when using my Easy Stringer and a starting clamp??

 

[tennisbike]

The problem was that the first and second cross was way too loose...
How can I avoid this problem when using my Easy Stringer and a starting clamp??

You got some options: 0. Do nothing and accept the existing result, which effects playability little. 1. Use starting knot to start cross (my choice). 2. Learn a procedure to minimize the low tension on last string. Many people increase the pulled tension. Some use jam a dowel while applying some pull with some cam plier. There is also this Parnell lock you can try.
Keep stringing and thinking, you will get better at it. Get a String Meter to verify string stiffness from string to string. It will help you see how you string.

 

[liftordie]

You got some options: 0. Do nothing and accept the existing result, which effects playability little. 1. Use starting knot to start cross (my choice). 2. Learn a procedure to minimize the low tension on last string. Many people increase the pulled tension. Some use jam a dowel while applying some pull with some cam plier. There is also this Parnell lock you can try.
Keep stringing and thinking, you will get better at it. Get a String Meter to verify string stiffness from string to string. It will help you see how you string.

I hate to see the first two crosses moving around so much... But I like to use a starting clamp... Really ZERO option???

 

[liftordie]

.

 

[FIRETennis]

Maybe some more experienced stringers can chime in, but I don't think it's good practice to use a starting clamp for crosses with flying clamps.
I would suggest using a starting knot and then tension the top two crosses at the same time.

Explained very clearly here:

 

[fritzhimself]

.............

 

[Pumpkin]

You can't get an ERT 300 anymore. These stupid phone apps are useless aren't they?

 

[Sardines]

Maybe some more experienced stringers can chime in, but I don't think it's good practice to use a starting clamp for crosses with flying clamps.
I would suggest using a starting knot and then tension the top two crosses at the same time.

Well that depends on the string pattern too. My crosses are knotted on crosses, not mains, so it's possible to pull on the 2nd string with the top string clamped then pull the 3rd and lock, then pull the top string to tension since the flying clamps will be holding the 2 and 3 strings, then knot on the 3rd and continue. This is especially if one likes the top string higher tension than the H2.
Still even if tying to a main, I prefer a starting clamp over double pulling the top crosses, because of the better tensioning. My preference.