The only discussion left now is whether or not the Serb is the greatest athlete in all sports at the moment!
- Thread starter GoatNo1
- Start date
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
If Djokovic doesn't win ESPY next year the champion should be rejected by the people. Djokovic at age 36 is still the best in his game. He is the greatest athlete ever.
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
24 is what matter the most , not the age. The more your try to downplay Novak achievements the grater they became. Only 2 more slams baby and Goat athlete debate if settled for at lest of couple decades. Peace, love and all that nonsense
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
No, he isn’t on that level (as undisputed best player in the world by a large margin) that’s true. and Djokovic winning 3 Slams at this age is mind boggling. That said, maybe that’s because LeBron’s competition is Jokic, Giannis, Steph, KD, Davis, Luka, Haliburton, etc. and Djoko’s is Medvedev, Zverev, Tsitsipas, etc… it would be an interesting exercise to compare their competition.
Lastly, LeBron is the best player on the Lakers this year and was better in 2020 than AD.
Currently 5th in the league in EPM: https://dunksandthrees.com/epm
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
It’s certainly going that direction, it’s up to him to make it undisputed
If he makes 30 slams and seals the rest of the records then it’s a done deal or if he ever accomplishes the calendar slam
If he makes 30 slams and seals the rest of the records then it’s a done deal or if he ever accomplishes the calendar slam
TheFifthSet
Legend
Still quite a ways away from Top 5 in all relevant metrics.
Think it’s impossible to make a case for him having a better year than any of Jokic, Embiid, Giannis, SGA, Halliburton and don’t see a fair case for him over Doncic. That’s 6 players having better years at minimum. If we’re just looking at individual performance I don’t even think Curry has been worse and I think we can all agree things wouldn’t be looking so good if you swapped their teams second best players…even with AD the Lakers are 23rd in the league in ortg.
RS
Bionic Poster
Lin Dan's career looks something like the big 3's give or take something.
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Nah, I prefer success for the sake of it without any methodology of interest.Do any of you just like exciting tennis matches? Asking for a friend
InsuranceMan
Hall of Fame
The Guru
Legend
We think about elite players differently in tennis than in basketball. If you're a consistent top 5 player in basketball you're a legend and a no doubt HOFer. If you're that in tennis you're Ferrer. Someone like KD in tennis would be maligned in the way Murray and Roddick were and not celebrated like he is in hoops. It's just different.
I will not claim to know who's the best player on the Lakers this year as I haven't watched enough to feel confident but I will say I'd be absolutely shocked if it's not AD. AD is absolutely DPOY calibre if not who I'd back for DPOY with a full healthy season while being an elite offensive player. LeBron at this point in his career just cannot compete with that two way value. No shade on LeBron that he's not a top 5 guy at 39 but AD is absolutely that when healthy. Is there anyone we can say is definitively better than AD in a playoff setting besides Jokic. I'm not so sure. He's been that special when healthy.
As far as 2020 goes I can see the case for both it's a 1a 1b thing to me. More superficially if you wanna look at the two most crucial series of their season LeBron was the better player in the finals while AD was in the WCF. Depending on who you view as the more stern competition you could pick one or the other based on that. I think in 2020 when asked about my opinion I gave the nod to LeBron too but either answer is very defensible they were neck and neck.
Poor Alcaraz, betrayed and forgotten once he starts losing a bit. Now apparently he is just trash, sad. Come now, have faith in your boy or just join the church of Sinner.
The Guru
Legend
Side note for the people talking hoops: How special is Haliburton? This dude is amazing can't turn off the TV when he's playing. Nash level pace and aggression with Chris Paul level turnover economy it's outstanding. After last year I thought there's no chance anyone even approaches Jokic's title as the best offensive player in the league and Haliburton has me reconsidering. Dude is unbelievable and has a chance of becoming a pantheon level on ball creator.
TheFifthSet
Legend
Was about to say something similar after reading the first sentence lol. I still think Jok is the clear #1 but Hali’s playmaking has been ridiculous.
Razer
Legend
24 is what matter the most , not the age. The more your try to downplay Novak achievements the grater they became. Only 2 more slams baby and Goat athlete debate if settled for at lest of couple decades. Peace, love and all that nonsense
If 24 did not give him the consensus of being GOAT Athlete then why will 26 do that ?
It is not gonna happen, Tennis is not that important enough to be marketed as having someone who is GOAT athlete, I remember Federer having such arguments by media who wanted to market him really bad but all that fell flat on its face.
By and large Ali will always remain the GOAT athlete of all time for various reasons even outside of his sport, not sure Novak is that marketable or there is any need to market him. It is not like people want to sell a lot of merchandise in Serbia, no? If Serbia was a country like India or China then sure, they could/would market him for monetary reasons, but in this case nope.... Novak wont be marketed like that.
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Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
That’s true but his plus minus numbers are legitimately ridiculous, the offense craters to historical degree with him off the floor and it matches the eye test too. He’s having his most efficient shooting season since 2014, the shot is there, his TS% is absurd considering his age, etc.
I wouldn’t say he’s a top 5 player over the entire season and do expect the hot shooting to fall off especially as we get to the dog days, but his start to the season and overall level of play has been nothing short of mind-boggling. He is appreciably having the best season of any best 36 year old of all time, and the best 37th, and the best 38th, and he’s 39 in 3 weeks.
Has to be said that Curry and KD at 35 are looking elite as well (Steph’s decision making and team play has been worse than the numbers will show, but he’s still putting up laughable TS% numbers and not looking any worse at scoring than ever)
Maybe so but I think we’d know if we saw a Jokic, or Giannis, or Steph level player in tennis if we saw it. Alcaraz and Sinner do give me hope, but they haven’t been actual competition to Djoker until this year.
2020 AD was bananas and he does carry the defense in historic fashion. Wouldn’t begrudge for arguing he was better in 2020 playoffs but I value playmaking and “offensive decision making” a lot, and LBJ’s defense was legitimately great that playoffs too.
Carlos was completely irrelevant to Djokovic in 2020, 2021, or 2022. Literally one match.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
I was saying to my friends last night that he shockingly worries me more than Giannis does for the Lakers tomorrow. Carlisle has created the SSOL Suns without an elite roll man or even a really clear 2nd guy, it’s absurd. Hali makes every right decision and has probably the best touch behind Jokic in the entire league. It’s not just the 3s and passing it’s his floaters and mid game that are now elite too. Hes a caravan of efficiency and fun, it’s insane how good that offense is against any sort of defense. They have answers for it all and it’s utterly relentless. Wish LaMelo could play like this so I can actually get inspired to care about my NC team.
What is your opinion about Djokovic 2023 year having the competition of ATG pedigree Alcaraz at his physical peak? Check
Born_to_slice
Legend
People are running out of things to write about.
GoatNo1
Professional
the fact is that the most prestigious award for the best athlete in the world, an award voted by the sports legends themselves from many sports, was by far the most often won by tennis players. in my opinion, they cheated with some recent elections, but again:
Laureus World Sports Awards - Wikipedia
Laureus World Sports Awards regular awards winners
GoatNo1
Professional
| * | Indicates individual whose award or nomination was later rescinded |
|---|
so
11 of 23 man sportsman was a tennis player = 48% (if No1e win for 2023 it vill be 50%!!)
6 of 22 sportwomen of the year was a tennisplayer = 27%
7 0f 23 breaktrough = 30%
7 of 22 comebacs = 32%
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TheFifthSet
Legend
I almost want to violently hand-wave all this talk cuz it further opens the wound caused by my Kings not drafting Doncic cuz Vlade had beef with Sasa Doncic, and then trading Hali. Unforgivable.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
The first statement is arguable or at least will become arguably right if he adds more to his resume. The second and third statement are next to certainly wrong.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
It's so not, Djokovic isn't better than Federer or Nadal. You people have a really short memory.
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
Ali was the greatest because he was the greatest in his sport and more important he refused the American government to go to Vietnam.
Novak is greater because he beat the second and third best of tennis history for the top position.
He survived sanction of the 1990 s which were twice worst than the Great Depression of 1920 , I know because I survived it two + the Nato bombing of 99.
He refused both Australian and American governments demands to submit to experimental covid vaccines and stayed honest about his principles.
The constant manipulation by the western media didn't break him, just the opposite.
Spartacus was Spartacus no matter how Romans treated him .
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nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
No impartiality and stuff. We have seen the greatness.24 is what matter the most , not the age. The more your try to downplay Novak achievements the grater they became. Only 2 more slams baby and Goat athlete debate if settled for at lest of couple decades. Peace, love and all that nonsense
Purestriker
Legend
Uh no. Jon should stick to tennis.
"Is there a greater athlete in sports right now?" - Novak Djokovic's GOAT status in tennis beyond discussion after ATP Finals, says journalist
Tennis journalist Jon Wertheim is of the opinion that Novak Djokovic's status as the GOAT (Greatest Of All Time) in the sport is all but sealed now.www.sportskeeda.com
Tennis journalist Jon Wertheim is of the opinion that Novak Djokovic's status as the GOAT (Greatest Of All Time) in the sport is all but sealed now. The American, in fact, believes that the only discussion left now is whether or not the Serb is the greatest athlete in all sports at the moment.
The Guru
Legend
Still would rather be u than be me (Bulls fan here)
The Guru
Legend
Again I just think basketball is very different because so much more goes in to it than tennis. Imagine if Mark Jackson was still the coach in GS for example. Sure Curry was a borderline top 5 player in 13/14 but he was nowhere near what he became under Kerr. Even still how many players have genuinely wrestled over the title of best in the world in the last ten years. LeBron, Curry, Giannis, Jokic, and 2020 AD in a weird bubble year. In tennis over the last ten years we have Fed, Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, and maybe Carlos in a weird year. Not that different. Best in the world type talents are rare.
It's the easiest thing to see and value hence why off ball defense (probably the second most valuable skill behind playmaking) and off ball offense are perpetually underrated. Which also happen to be AD's biggest strengths as a genuinely all time anchor and maybe the greatest lob threat in league history. Crazy to see where people were ranking him going into the season. Such a slept on talent. He can't move like he did in 2020 anymore but he's still on the shortlist of the best in the world.
The Sinner
Semi-Pro
He may be the GOAT in tennis, but don’t agree overall, in all sports. Since tennis is an individual sport, let’s compare with same. Take for example swimming and athletics. Phelps and Bolt, they dominated their peers at the time, head and shoulders above all. We can’t say the same for Djokovic…prime for prime, he was on par with Nadal and Federer, not head and shoulders above them, like the aforementioned. When Bolt and Phelps took to the blocks they were always the HEAVY favourites. Can’t say the same when Djoko faced Fedal in their prime, or at least when close to prime. So how could he be greater than Bolt or Phelps? And I haven’t even got to teams sports.
Neptune
Hall of Fame
Serious? back up your claim please
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
D
Dwell
Guest
Admit it. If Djokovic had possessed his current serve and forehand throughout his career,
he would've been more entertaining to watch... but also even more successful.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Nah I like how he played in 07 and 08. Clay season 09 too, he was much more dynamic, and not stretch-pong like now
Bender
G.O.A.T.
Nobody watches tennis for fun dude, we all just root for our heroes and live vicariously through them.Do any of you just like exciting tennis matches? Asking for a friend
If my guy’s numbers aren’t the biggest then it is an insult to my personal being and nationality.
D
Dwell
Guest
Novak on plexi is like Gear 5 Luffy
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
Both Bolt and Phelps needed only one factor to win and that is speed and they never competed against 2 and 3 best in history of their sports. Djokovic wins regularly against players who are faster, stronger, taller, 10-15 years younger than him and he dos it with operated elbow. In 2011 ( 3 slams , 5 masters titles) he was head and shoulders above Fedal ( 2 and 3 of tennis history) , 10-1 head to head dominance.
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Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
I know what you see. Just numbers.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
Greatest athletes in terms of versatility (could have excelled or did excel in other sports/disciplines): Wilt, Jim Brown, Bo Jackson, Herschel Walker
Greatest dominance in any (major) sport: Karelin, Bolt, Phelps
Dominant in the sport with the (by far) biggest talent pool: Pele, Messi
Djokovic is nowhere there. He doesn’t have athletic skills to excel in other sports, he doesn’t dominate to an extent other athletes do (Fedal are way closer to him than whoever is in wrestling, swimming or track to Karelin, Phelps, Bolt) and tennis is light years away from the talent pool of football and even basketball.
So no Djoko is now where near the biggest athlete no matter your definition.
Greatest dominance in any (major) sport: Karelin, Bolt, Phelps
Dominant in the sport with the (by far) biggest talent pool: Pele, Messi
Djokovic is nowhere there. He doesn’t have athletic skills to excel in other sports, he doesn’t dominate to an extent other athletes do (Fedal are way closer to him than whoever is in wrestling, swimming or track to Karelin, Phelps, Bolt) and tennis is light years away from the talent pool of football and even basketball.
So no Djoko is now where near the biggest athlete no matter your definition.
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
Djokovic is now the greatest athlete in all sports. Fedal fans can find other sports but they will not be sufficient.
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
Lol. Any arguments for that claim?
Ali is not even the best boxer, stop putting that clown in the conversations of better athletes!
GoatNo1
Professional
many analysts as well as ordinary people had fed as top 5 sportsmen of all time already when he had 16-17 slams and only a clay oriented rafa and baby nole (far from ATG at that time) as main rivals. now nole has by at least 50% surpassed fed's accomplishments from that time and that in the toughest competition ever and in direct rivalry with 2 other GOAT candidates in his sport. so if fed was considered by most in the top5 then why wouldn't nole be at least in the top3 now?
I AGREE!
Genie Of the Bank
Hall of Fame
They can't even run away that Novak will be always there on the back of their mind, smiling.
D
