The Prince Phantom 93P is a gift to us from TW - My Review/AMA

JOSHL

Hall of Fame
I was maybe going to put a skin feel on mine.....can’t even get out and play much with all this stupid rain.
 
Have any of you Phantom 93 owners ever been a Diablo 93 owner? If so, how do you flip the dice between the two? I'm on the fence about the 18 mains. I'm still playing with the Diablo. I was with the RF97A for a while, but it's too stiff, wide and lacks the manoeuvrability of the Diablo 93. The RF97A is still the stock serve, and sometimes, volley champ. But I'm glad there are still some sensible people in the larger companies out there who are willing to make something other than boom boom sticks. The only downside is, in the UK, if you ask for a Phantom, stores never get a reply from the UK office, so people are just left hanging, and stores don't know what to tell customers. Some of the well known ones refuse to get involved with Prince as a result. So with the readership and reach some forums have, it's counter productive to their marketing efforts if in turn, it just turns potential customers away.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Have any of you Phantom 93 owners ever been a Diablo 93 owner? If so, how do you flip the dice between the two? I'm on the fence about the 18 mains. I'm still playing with the Diablo. I was with the RF97A for a while, but it's too stiff, wide and lacks the manoeuvrability of the Diablo 93. The RF97A is still the stock serve, and sometimes, volley champ. But I'm glad there are still some sensible people in the larger companies out there who are willing to make something other than boom boom sticks. The only downside is, in the UK, if you ask for a Phantom, stores never get a reply from the UK office, so people are just left hanging, and stores don't know what to tell customers. Some of the well known ones refuse to get involved with Prince as a result. So with the readership and reach some forums have, it's counter productive to their marketing efforts if in turn, it just turns potential customers away.
Is the Diablo a 16x20 and did it come in more than one size?

I ask because I hit with a Diablo years back and I don't remember much except not really liking it that much. It felt sluggish through the air and did not really do much for me. I know a lot of people loved those frames, and I may have played a 97 version if that existed.

I am not a fan of the RF97 really at all. It feels kinda like cement. I am in the classic or modern type pf camp. - make a buttery frame that can be played in 2018 or give me a Bab-Cannon. All the stuff in between never seems to stick with me long term.

I think the P93 could give the RF97 serve and volley title a run for it's money though. Hope you can get one.
 

jonestim

Hall of Fame
Is the Diablo a 16x20 and did it come in more than one size?
The Tour versions were well regarded, and the only ones I really see referenced on this board.
- a 16/20 93 from the same mold as the POG Mid, minus the crossbar (95% of the mentions)
- a 16x18 100 27.25" from the same mold that they later used for the POG 100 (occasional mention)

There were also XP versions, which I don't think were in the same class and I never see them talked about.
- 16x20 97 27.5"
- 16x19 107 28"

The 93 was a spectacular racquet.
 

SpinToWin

Talk Tennis Guru
Calm the eff down dude. I had pretty respectful post but seems you want nothing of that. No issues in you explaining but you did not word it clearly and implied that I didn't understand. Thats what I was getting at..
You were respectful? Was that before or after you started calling BS and being passive aggressive? I think you should get out more and talk with people, you seem to believe that people are hyper-rational robots that go through their words so that they are absolutely unmistakable in their intent regardless of contex - which could not be further from the truth.
 

JOSHL

Hall of Fame
I would definitely recommend hitting stock first, if you haven't. You might not even feel the need to swap to anything else.
I’ve hit with it but only with a ball machine and it’s great. The true test will be against actual humans and I will keep it stock(ish, I build up my butts) until I play matches and see how that goes. I just kinda want to shed some weight on mine since it’s 12.5oz.
 

haqq777

Legend
I’ve hit with it but only with a ball machine and it’s great. The true test will be against actual humans and I will keep it stock(ish, I build up my butts) until I play matches and see how that goes. I just kinda want to shed some weight on mine since it’s 12.5oz.
Ah, I see. And wow, yours seems to be on the heavier side? Mine was 345g strung (12.1 oz) out of the box. What was the balance on yours?
 

haqq777

Legend
You were respectful? Was that before or after you started calling BS and being passive aggressive? I think you should get out more and talk with people, you seem to believe that people are hyper-rational robots that go through their words so that they are absolutely unmistakable in their intent regardless of contex - which could not be further from the truth.
Lets stay out of it because I certainly did not feel that he was being passive aggresive, STW. Internet posts have a way of losing context and sometimes it's neither here not there. I think it was a simple case of miscommunication. He has always been respectful to me and his posts in general as well are well thought out. That and I like to believe people are good in general. Either way, I think it was done and dusted and no point in rubbing it on again.
 

Faris

Professional
You were respectful? Was that before or after you started calling BS and being passive aggressive? I think you should get out more and talk with people, you seem to believe that people are hyper-rational robots that go through their words so that they are absolutely unmistakable in their intent regardless of contex - which could not be further from the truth.
Had a reply for you but I'll let it slide..
 

JOSHL

Hall of Fame
Ah, I see. And wow, yours seems to be on the heavier side? Mine was 345g strung (12.1 oz) out of the box. What was the balance on yours?
It was actually under spec unstrung at 11.38oz if I recall correctly. The balance was on spec though. It’s 12.5oz with the big butt, overgrip and dampener.
 

haqq777

Legend
It was actually under spec unstrung at 11.38oz if I recall correctly. The balance was on spec though. It’s 12.5oz with the big butt, overgrip and dampener.
I haven't weighed mine unstrung yet (ordered with RS Lyon so it was strung out of the box) but I have a feeling mine is a few grams under as well. Works for me, really. I don't want to go much over 12 oz strung static weight anyway.

If I remember correctly, you were recovering from wrist issues as well late last year? Did the switch to synthetic help?
 

FedBeckRas

Rookie
Is the Diablo a 16x20 and did it come in more than one size?

I ask because I hit with a Diablo years back and I don't remember much except not really liking it that much. It felt sluggish through the air and did not really do much for me. I know a lot of people loved those frames, and I may have played a 97 version if that existed.

I am not a fan of the RF97 really at all. It feels kinda like cement. I am in the classic or modern type pf camp. - make a buttery frame that can be played in 2018 or give me a Bab-Cannon. All the stuff in between never seems to stick with me long term.

I think the P93 could give the RF97 serve and volley title a run for it's money though. Hope you can get one.
I was wondering about how Phantom 93p compared to the Diablo too. Thanks for answering. I didn't like the Diablo for much the same reasons you stated. It just didn't stand out in any criteria for me. That said I LOVED the Triple Threat Graphite Midsize of the same era. Have any experience with this racquet? Please compare if you do. Thanks
 

JOSHL

Hall of Fame
I haven't weighed mine unstrung yet (ordered with RS Lyon so it was strung out of the box) but I have a feeling mine is a few grams under as well. Works for me, really. I don't want to go much over 12 oz strung static weight anyway.

If I remember correctly, you were recovering from wrist issues as well late last year? Did the switch to synthetic help?
The wrist was mostly or all a technique issue. With the help of another tt member here- @mad dog1 I was able to figure that out. Took 2 months off to heal and haven’t had any major issues since, there’s still something there but it’s not a debilitating pain like it was before. It’s still too soon to tell if the syn gut is helping really, along with the change in technique. Also I’m a string-a-holic so I plan on putting other string in it as well but so far I like the way the syn gut plays in it.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
The wrist was mostly or all a technique issue. With the help of another tt member here- @mad dog1 I was able to figure that out. Took 2 months off to heal and haven’t had any major issues since, there’s still something there but it’s not a debilitating pain like it was before. It’s still too soon to tell if the syn gut is helping really, along with the change in technique. Also I’m a string-a-holic so I plan on putting other string in it as well but so far I like the way the syn gut plays in it.
Glad I was able to help, buddy!
 

Anton

Legend
Got my 93P today. 8pt HL, scale MIA :(

First impressions in hand:

Head does not look too small, easily 95 equivalent.

String pattern very even, semi-closed, like Ultra Tour, but definetly more open than Prestige Mid.

19g Cyclone @48lbs (TW) is a bit too tight, but I'm sure it will loosen up.

Lateral stability adequate, head feels slightly light, pretty sure will need lead above 3 and 9.

Nice leather grip - not cheap and hard/thin like Wilson.

Swings swift, load ok, carry ok - again, a few grams of lead seems in order.

Finaly got to hit with it today - pretty good classic player type ride but I wouldn't call it amazing.

I would say this frame hits like a nice mix between PS85 and TC95(63RA) - it's smoother and more generous in the stringbed than PS85, but has firmer upper loop than TC95. I do like it more than both of them.

Lower bridge is thin, I'd say rubber band or some other dampner is required, otherwise some vibes/ping.

Without lead it's not bad, has that swift scalpel feel and some punch, but stringbed is not quite uniform feeling enough for my tastes - torque and some muted buzz felt on impacts around the edges even towards the bottom of the loop (I may swap out the leather, have been liking firm synthetics more).

~3g added a bit above 3+9, helped lateral stability, but still lower stringbed felt off.
2g on V throat - now we talking, really helped with the feel, consistency and stability, though made the racket feel more hefty.

With this setup I can really play....but for now I'd grab a 12oz Ultra Tour first - bigger real estate and it just has plusher ride per weight.

And then there is my leaded up DR98 Light - a more even balanced spin machine, with a "sweet-spot" the size of it's stingbed and similar comfort to 93P. I'll give the edge to 93P on slices and about equal effectiveness on serve, but on strokes with DR98 I just whip up a heavier, spinnier ball I can send deep or open up more angles with.
 
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mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
Finaly got to hit with it today - pretty good classic player type ride but I wouldn't call it amazing.

I would say this frame hits like a nice mix between PS85 and TC95(63RA) - it's smoother and more generous in the stringbed than PS85, but has firmer upper loop than TC95. I do like it more than both of them.

Lower bridge is thin, I'd say rubber band or some other dampner is required, otherwise some vibes/ping.

Without lead it's not bad, has that swift scalpel feel and some punch, but stringbed is not quite uniform feeling enough for my tastes - torque and some muted buzz felt on impacts around the edges even towards the bottom of the loop (I may swap out the leather, have been liking firm synthetics more).

~3g added a bit above 3+9, helped lateral stability, but still lower stringbed felt off.
2g on V throat - now we talking, really helped with the feel, consistency and stability, though made the racket feel more hefty.

With his setup I can really play....but for now I'd grab a 12oz Ultra Tour first - bigger real estate and it just has plusher ride per weight.

And then there is my leaded up DR98 Light - a more even balanced spin machine, with a "sweet-spot" the size of it's stingbed and similar comfort to 93P. I'll give the edge to 93P on slices and about equal effectiveness on serve, but on strokes with DR98 I just whip up a heavier, spinnier ball I can send deep or open up more angles with.
Nice write up! Thanks for saving me time in giving the 93p a whirl. Looks like I’ll stick with my Ultra Tours, too.
 

Anton

Legend
If you like it more than a ps85 that’s pretty high praise.
Yea, 93P is definitely more realistic to compete with, you get a noticeably bigger spin window. PS85 is more stable lower in the string-bed in stock form (12.6oz!), but with a few grams of lead on the throat of P93 it's a blow out.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Good review. I am not sure I would compare it to the Wilson Ultra just because the Prince fits a little different role. It is for those of us sickos who actually want to play with a midsize frame, either now and then or full time. So in this case, the extra real estate of the Ultra is not necessarily a positive.

The reason I liked it so much to make a thread on it is because Prince managed to make a mid that feels fantastic on contact and also, like you said, still realistic to compete with.

For the player like myself who loves to use Babolats now and then but also want to use something with a soul without a huge drop-off this is a perfect frame.

Additionally, anyone who loves the feel of classic frames, but questions if they can still play with a 90, this is a really great racquet.
 

Anton

Legend
Good review. I am not sure I would compare it to the Wilson Ultra just because the Prince fits a little different role. It is for those of us sickos who actually want to play with a midsize frame, either now and then or full time. So in this case, the extra real estate of the Ultra is not necessarily a positive.

The reason I liked it so much to make a thread on it is because Prince managed to make a mid that feels fantastic on contact and also, like you said, still realistic to compete with.

For the player like myself who loves to use Babolats now and then but also want to use something with a soul without a huge drop-off this is a perfect frame.

Additionally, anyone who loves the feel of classic frames, but questions if they can still play with a 90, this is a really great racquet.
Yes , if I wanted to compete with a Mid, I'd have to go with 93P.

BTW I also played with my 1986 TXP (PC600) - it was more plush/stable (at 12.5oz) and less potent. Lighter 93P hit more penetrating ball with marginally more spin, though less controlled on flatter shots, because the ball would go long more often.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Yes , if I wanted to compete with a Mid, I'd have to go with 93P.

BTW I also played with my 1986 TXP (PC600) - it was more plush/stable (at 12.5oz) and less potent. Lighter 93P hit more penetrating ball with marginally more spin, though less controlled on flatter shots, because the ball would go long more often.
Makes total sense. I miss my PC600, but I play better with the P93 and the feel is so good that I don't mind the slightly extra RA.
 

parasailing

Hall of Fame
Another year? And people are waiting that long? Impressive.
Definitely worth the wait. Whether they can duplicate what Head did for the PT280 and PT630 is a different matter but of all the racquets I have tried so far, nothing feels like one of those two racquets. The sweet spot on them is small but when you hit it, it has an amazing feel to it.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Definitely worth the wait. Whether they can duplicate what Head did for the PT280 and PT630 is a different matter but of all the racquets I have tried so far, nothing feels like one of those two racquets. The sweet spot on them is small but when you hit it, it has an amazing feel to it.
I know, I have a 280. Hit with it right next to the 93P and alternated back and forth. I like my 280 a lot, but the 93P was just as satisfying to hit with, if not more due to the way it comes through the air.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
Definitely worth the wait. Whether they can duplicate what Head did for the PT280 and PT630 is a different matter but of all the racquets I have tried so far, nothing feels like one of those two racquets. The sweet spot on them is small but when you hit it, it has an amazing feel to it.
The feel is very good, but it’s always been too sluggish for me.
 

dgoran

Hall of Fame
I agree what Powerplayer said:
93p is like fine aged wine cannot be compared to beer...it’s made for connoisseurs to be enjoyed sparringly and on special occasions.
it’s not meant for doing keg stands for that we have modern racquets...
 

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
@Power Player I'm curious if you have a similar forehand to me. I hit with a SW and don't windshield wipe. It's kind of like how Federer brushes forward on his stroke and ends across his chest. I use more ball pocketing than wiping to impart spin.

I hit a forehand drive that has a low arch, but still spins. It's not a flat shot where you can see ball's logo from having little to no spin. Only when I I'm far behind the baseline will I finish above my opposite shoulder to ensure there's net clearance and land deep.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
@Power Player I'm curious if you have a similar forehand to me. I hit with a SW and don't windshield wipe. It's kind of like how Federer brushes forward on his stroke and ends across his chest. I use more ball pocketing than wiping to impart spin.

I hit a forehand drive that has a low arch, but still spins. It's not a flat shot where you can see ball's logo from having little to no spin. Only when I I'm far behind the baseline will I finish above my opposite shoulder to ensure there's net clearance and land deep.
Not sure. I would have to see it. Its about a lot more than just what the arms and racquet do. That being said what you are describing in ball shape and style makes me think you will enjoy the 93p a lot.
 

FlightDeck

New User
Just got mine strung and tried it out. Prince nailed it. The racket feels amazing. I already like the TeXtreme feel and with this thin frame it is just perfect. Very stable and fast, plenty of power and spin for this head size. Sweet spot is great, no harsh vibrations on off-center shots. It is very impressive. On slices it has a scalpel like feel. Really, really enjoyed it and a lot of fun to hit with. Stays in my bag, awesome stick.

Mine is strung with Hyper-G 18g 23/22kg and I think it is a great combination, but I like Solinco strings anyway. The Prince leather grip is high quality. Of course no chance to compete with it because of the head size it is just too much demanding for my tennis level. Thumbs up, great racket by Prince :D

 

Anton

Legend
Doing some cutomization to get 93P rock solid, while still keeping it swift:

final product: 12.25oz 7hl 350SW

Notes:

Grip: Prince Leather is heavy - 25 grams, swapped in firm synthetic Gamma RZR - 18g
Rubber band and overgrip

lead:
1g @12
5g @ 3+9
3g @ V throat
2g @ grip, 2"above buttcap

Will hit tonight.
 

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
Doing some cutomization to get 93P rock solid, while still keeping it swift:

final product: 12.25oz 7hl 350SW

Notes:

Grip: Prince Leather is heavy - 25 grams, swapped in firm synthetic Gamma RZR - 18g
Rubber band and overgrip

lead:
1g @12
5g @ 3+9
3g @ V throat
2g @ grip, 2"above buttcap

Will hit tonight.
What happened to your Wilson Ultra Tour? You were pretty into it.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Doing some cutomization to get 93P rock solid, while still keeping it swift:

final product: 12.25oz 7hl 350SW

Notes:

Grip: Prince Leather is heavy - 25 grams, swapped in firm synthetic Gamma RZR - 18g
Rubber band and overgrip

lead:
1g @12
5g @ 3+9
3g @ V throat
2g @ grip, 2"above buttcap

Will hit tonight.
That's gonna be a hand cannon.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
I killed myself with this thread. All size 1/4 grip are sold out until May. Wow, that is a long time. @TW Staff - what is the deal with the long delay?
If you haven’t tried the Ultra Tour, you need to! ;) depending on the specs you get, 2-4g at 12. Swap for a leather grip plus 4-6g putty under the trapdoor.
 

haqq777

Legend
Alright, fellow connoisseurs. I have an update

As unfortunate as it is, I think the initial honeymoon phase is wearing off just a bit, lol. At least for high level match play I will start using my usual Angells. Difference in results is hard not to notice. All on me off course, but it is what it is.

Lost my third match in a row today. My usual TC100 is just more forgiving and provides that edge which P93 doesn't. Deep in third with aching legs and fatigue crawling in, I want that right blend of power, control and forgiveness when I have a 20 year old college sophomore hitting like a spin machine and moving like maniacal Energizer bunny.

Maybe it is all in my head. But when I am hustling to reach for balls two sets deep the TC100 helps me cheat on strokes. P93 does not. And that edge later on in the match is what makes the difference.

There is a repeat pattern here that I noticed. I keep hitting off center, even framing at times more and more as the match progresses. Neutral rallying and hitting for fun is one thing, getting feet right and hitting clean while on the move another.

Now the P93 is staying in the bag. Not going anywhere as I love the great feel and sound when striking the ball and I will use it every now and then. But realistically I have to come to terms with the fact that it is a mid after all and for me, not something to take to high level matches. It affects me even more as I am a baseline player and a lot of lateral movt is involved in my style of play to reach for balls.
 

JOSHL

Hall of Fame
Finally got to play some matches with this bad boy. Singles and doubles. Serving was great as expected. I did notice in dubs that my volleys lacked a little punch, could just be me adjusting, also the weight. I will say that this is a frame that demands good play but at the same time I think it’s very easy to use/user friendly. Anyone considering trying a mid but scared for whatever reason should give this a go for sure.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Alright, fellow connoisseurs. I have an update

As unfortunate as it is, I think the initial honeymoon phase is wearing off just a bit, lol. At least for high level match play I will start using my usual Angells. Difference in results is hard not to notice. All on me off course, but it is what it is.

Lost my third match in a row today. My usual TC100 is just more forgiving and provides that edge which P93 doesn't. Deep in third with aching legs and fatigue crawling in, I want that right blend of power, control and forgiveness when I have a 20 year old college sophomore hitting like a spin machine and moving like maniacal Energizer bunny.

Maybe it is all in my head. But when I am hustling to reach for balls two sets deep the TC100 helps me cheat on strokes. P93 does not. And that edge later on in the match is what makes the difference.

There is a repeat pattern here that I noticed. I keep hitting off center, even framing at times more and more as the match progresses. Neutral rallying and hitting for fun is one thing, getting feet right and hitting clean while on the move another.

Now the P93 is staying in the bag. Not going anywhere as I love the great feel and sound when striking the ball and I will use it every now and then. But realistically I have to come to terms with the fact that it is a mid after all and for me, not something to take to high level matches. It affects me even more as I am a baseline player and a lot of lateral movt is involved in my style of play to reach for balls.

I can see that. I still believe this is more about fitness, but when you are playing young guys with a ton of spin, it helps to have a cheat code. Personally, I think I would pull out my cheat code PA+ and it probably won't help as much as I think it would. But we will see at some point.

To be honest, I just don't try to out baseline guys like that anymore, because that is a game of stamina that you will never win if you are older than them. This is why I prefer the 93P, just because I have confidence in my slice/droppers and net attacks with it. Good slice can torture some players that love topspsin. I guess I am more of a changeup pitcher in that regard.

"Getting feet right" is the thing that stuck out to me. Yeah, that's the truth. I definitely see a difference there with a Babolat. But I am at the point right now where I would rather get my feet right than cheat with the frame. Basically, I'd like to try and get a little better in that area if at all possible. I found myself developing some pretty lazy habits with the PA that I want to try and work through.
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
If you haven’t tried the Ultra Tour, you need to! ;) depending on the specs you get, 2-4g at 12. Swap for a leather grip plus 4-6g putty under the trapdoor.
I did, granted for a little bit. I just don't see the value in a $250 frame that I then need to add a grip to and modify. The 93P is plug and play for me and it feels just as good.

Plus Wilson specs are all over the place so it makes modding the frame a headache for me. I a not as into that stuff as some.
 

mad dog1

G.O.A.T.
I did, granted for a little bit. I just don't see the value in a $250 frame that I then need to add a grip to and modify. The 93P is plug and play for me and it feels just as good.

Plus Wilson specs are all over the place so it makes modding the frame a headache for me. I a not as into that stuff as some.
Definitely can’t justify $250 a copy so I picked my Ultras off the classifieds here! Thanks to some great members (@bruinduke, @JOSHL, and @John Kawasaki)!
 

Power Player

Talk Tennis Guru
Definitely can’t justify $250 a copy so I picked my Ultras off the classifieds here! Thanks to some great members (@bruinduke, @JOSHL, and @John Kawasaki)!
Nice! Yeah if I was frame shopping, I'd give it another shot, but I really was focused on 2 frames for months - this one and the PD+. Once I got this I just decided to stay with it and that I didn't really need the PD+ right now. I put that money to getting some better shoes and just working on the game. If I can't play well with this or the PA+, I don't really deserve to be out there anyway, lol.
 
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