RS
Bionic Poster
Make this a thread lol.
Things are hanging by a thread
- Thread starter USO
- Start date
when did the group "Thiem + Medvedev + Tsitsipas + Zverev " win their second collective GS?
you know that > means more than?
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Not so much to talk about. Roddick himself has stated that he'd have no chance against peak Djokovic.
Tsonga has a similar level/game to Roddick's (Djokovic in his book mentions a couple of times Tsonga as one of the best players he ever faced along with Big4), and look at the h2h progression against Djokovic:
until 2010 --> 2-5
since 2011 --> 15-1
RS
Bionic Poster
I mean the statement Roddick made in the tweet as a thread to see what people think.
1. Roddick retired in 2010, which means Novak was pro for 7 years, so he had enough years to face Roddick more often
2. did you ever hear about sarcasm? humor?
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Federer gets older and gets better against every other player not named Novak. Could it be that he needs his age excuse only against Novak. Why is it so hard for so many to just admit that Federer is not anywhere as good a player as Novak? Are they watching tennis with their eyes open for the past decade?Or he could do like Federer, that drastically improved his H2H against Nadal, Murray, Berdych:
until 2013 --> 30-39 (43.5%)
since 2014 --> 20-2 (90.9%)
I guess it is as hard for Novak fans to admit that he has under-achieved in Slams and Olympic golds against a much more defensive, aesthetically awful player to watch like Nadal.
It is a travesty that the tennis gods (I don‘t really believe in them, but it is cool to think of a Valhalla inhabited by tennis gods) seem to have deemed that the GOAT title will likely reside with Nadal. Then again, goats are ugly animals and it makes sense with how life works that the Big 3 player with the ugly defensive style (cue returning from 20 feet behind the baseline) comes out on top. Life is not fair, is it?
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Ask Djokovic why he mentions Tsonga as one of his best opponents and not Roddick.
Indigo
Professional
Novak is 34, a father of two, way past his peak which was 10 years ago in 2011. I simply don't understand why do people have to compare players with age difference of 15 years. It's just not reasonable, especially when the other player is almost at the end of his professional career. When these young players are 34, Novak will be over 50, grey hair, walking with a stick and his kids will be finishing college and having their own families. Novak can be father to these young contenders, yes, that's exactly how silly these comparisons and h2h are, plain silly.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Federer in Slams since 2014 Wimbledon:
vs non-Djokovic top5 players --> 6-1
vs Djokovic --> 0-6
I would assume 4-5 has something to do with it
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socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Lew, I may not agree with your methods and stats, but ‘Sono d'accordo con te’. Novak is the BOAT and it is sad that he has had so many lulls in his career at Slams that a much less offensive player like Nadal will end up with a better claim to the GOAT title than he does. It would have been a less bitter pill for me to swallow if Fed had ended up as the GOAT as he has a much more aesthetically pleasing game, but he was always destined to be the ThirdWheelerer. It is sad that Novak did not have the patience to outlast Nadal with solid defense at Roland Garros in 2012-2014 and in contrast was too passive against Murray and Wawrinka in other Slam finals - not to mention his boneheadedness in 2H2016-2017 during the Pepe era and the 2020USO.Federer in Slams since 2014 Wimbledon:
vs non-Djokovic top5 players --> 6-1
vs Djokovic --> 0-6
Nadal never lets his fans down as he usually plays to the ceiling of his limited defensive game compared to more talented offensive players like Federer and Djokovic who subject their fans to many more highs and lows.
Federer in Slams since 2014 Wimbledon:
vs non-Djokovic top5 players --> 6-1
vs Djokovic --> 0-6
Becker vs Sampras 7-12, which actually started as a 3-1 till 1991
Becker vs Agassi 4-10, which actually starter as 3-0 til 1989
Becker vs Kafelnikov 4-2, and they first met in 1995
Becker vs M Chang 5-1, and they first met in 1991
so, you know, your argument is just proving that current crop of top 10 players isn't any better than the 90s, where players 6-8 younger were not able to handle Becker, while ATGs like Sampras and Agassi could easily defeat him again and again
which raises again the question, which younger ATGs Novak is facing?
Djere? Albot? Goffin? Krajinovic?
can you please help me with the list?
Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
What no stats?
Oh right, the h2h is 5-4 Roddick. That would mean that Roddick > Djokovic by Lew logic, except most of it is before 2011, which doesn't exist.
So basically this says the Djokovic is much better than the rest of the top 5, since Federer is great against them and Lew's spent 50% of his posts convincing us that Fed isn't good. Thus - Weak Era.Federer in Slams since 2014 Wimbledon:
vs non-Djokovic top5 players --> 6-1
vs Djokovic --> 0-6
As a Djokovic fan i'd like if Djokovic ended up with most slams because he's the best player and it will be fair. But mostly life is not fair so if hes not gonna end with most slams i dont care if Nadal or Federer will end up as most slams winner. I like both of them even Nadal very defensive player, but he has his own style, playing physical game and spin the ball like crazy. All 3 players are different but nice to watch.
Silverbullet96
Hall of Fame
A loss in the WTF final isn't a big deal now ?
aditya123
Hall of Fame
That was once in a lifetime time performance in a bo3 format.... Things are still good for Djokovic against youngsters in bo5 format except on clay. Why worry so much??
even on clay, it's not the NextGen, it's Rafael, and he would be in the draw either way
aditya123
Hall of Fame
Thiem already has edge and Tsitsipas is getting closer on clay.
Thiem? maybe
Tsitsipas?
If Novak didn't choke the 3rd set, the match would be done in 3.
So, no, Tsitsipas has a long way to go before he can say that he is close to challenge Novak on clay
aditya123
Hall of Fame
Well let's see
they don't have the luxury that arod enjoyed when he reached those. He didn't have to contend with Fed 2.0, Nadal and Djoker...surely some of them would have done so if they had the same competition.
irrelevant.
he defeated whoever was on the other side of the net.
just like Djokovic and Nadal did
just like Fed did
just like Sampras and Becker did
just like Edberg did
and the list goes on and on and on
those two slowed down due to serious injury as well as (in Berdych case) lack of motivation...nothing to with age. They are still somewhat in their physical prime at 33
Yes, but don't you think they would have better chance vs Ferrero or Nalbandian then lets say the 3 greatest slam performers we've ever seen.
ok dude
1. what's your best guess, what is causing injuries?
2. do you want to tell me that Nadal didn't have injuries? or Fed? or Novak?
Novak initially refused to do an elbow surgery, because it is so little known area, and if you look back you might find many claims that it was his "career ending" injury
Rafa. Well, I think he had too many injuries to even start the topic
Fed, remember when he skipped the rest of the season post Wimbledon? what do you think, he was on holidays? also, what's your best guess, why is he skipped 2020?
3. what is your best guess, why Safin, Hewitt and many others decided to quit?
and to round it up, what do you think is the underlying reason of injuries in a sport like tennis, where athletes are not punching each other like in MMA, and are not tackling each other like in basketball, hockey or soccer?
I think that Ferrero wasn't ready to be #4 in the world.
I think he was a fierce competitor, determined to do whatever it takes to become #1.
And this part is missing in the generations that await the Big 3 to retire
P.S.
Big 3 won't voluntarily retire.
They will keep playing till they make it to the latest rounds of biggest tournaments and till they are inside top 5 ranking
Linelicker
Rookie
Should create a cognitiv dissonance, caught between "becoming better with age" and "best era ever" theories. In my view, tennis has seldom been weaker than 2016-2021. Any true young all time great would have swept this era (RG would probably still belong to Rafa). I think the unlycky ones were Murray and Wawrinka who got injured just when the opening came, and they were also playing their best tennis when the injuries stopped them.
Djokovic fans are obsessed with proving he is best. Kyrgios has positive H2H with Novak but that's because Novak was terrible. While Nadal and Federer are not allowed to be terrible.
Nadal will likely pass Federer in the race this year, and I am more curious about the Ultronians' desperate excuses than the Maestronians' tears.
DerekNoleFam1
Hall of Fame
Very wishful thinking by the OP.
It was still an 89% win rate in 2020.
Anything other than another multiple slam year in 2021 will be a big surprise.
It was still an 89% win rate in 2020.
Anything other than another multiple slam year in 2021 will be a big surprise.
Nadal_Django
Legend
What happened to the OP!? He lasted shorter than the Federer's peak.
TheAssassin
Legend
He did complain about there being too many of them after all...
P
PETEhammer
Guest
his profile still seems to exist, not sure why people think he was banned...
One Handed Dynasty
Semi-Pro
lol what’s their record only including best of 5? I’ve come to accept that the big 3 will never be surpassed by any of the current crop. They will decline with age and injury to a point where eventually the other players can beat them, not because of the current crop of competitors raising their level. Even old and injured as they are now, they are still giants among mental midgets.
Fabresque
Legend
He’s going through a difficult time right now, with Novak winning another slam and all...
Nadal_Django
Legend
Poor OP, he hoped that Medvedev and Zverev will be the saviours.
Nadal_Django
Legend
And what about Sonego?
iopzzza
Rookie
Lets get this cleared out. Respect to the new guys, but the thing is they are not getting that better, just Djokovic and Nadal are getting too old and slowed down. That's the only reason they lose. If u dont believe me , watch the intensity of US OPEN finals or the AO final in 2012. That cant be matched by the young guys, no matter who good they become.
vienna is not a slamAnd what about Sonego?
SecondToNone
Semi-Pro
6 months later:
vs Thiem DNP
vs Medvedev 1-0
vs Zverev 2-0
vs Tsitsipas 1-0
vs Rublev DNP
vs Sinner 1-0
vs Sonego 1-0
vs Thiem DNP
vs Medvedev 1-0
vs Zverev 2-0
vs Tsitsipas 1-0
vs Rublev DNP
vs Sinner 1-0
vs Sonego 1-0
Omega_7000
Legend
2012 to 2021
HMS Screwdriver
New User
T
TheNachoMan
Guest
these USO bumps
Aabye5
G.O.A.T.
Alright, somebody check my math, but it looks like by the end of 2010, when Novak was 23, he was down 16-7 in the h2h. They were close to the same age! Has he turned that around or what?
Tsitsipas is 22, Zverev is 24, and Medvedev is 25.
Now:
1) There are more of them, so they have to compete amongst themselves before they can even get a shot at Novak (or Rafa or Federer). The only ones who were even talked about when Nole was young were Monfils and Murray.
2) He had two greats he had to compete with, Roger and Rafa. There was no one else. His winning percentage against Rafa? Not that good.
Tsitsipas is 22, Zverev is 24, and Medvedev is 25.
Now:
1) There are more of them, so they have to compete amongst themselves before they can even get a shot at Novak (or Rafa or Federer). The only ones who were even talked about when Nole was young were Monfils and Murray.
2) He had two greats he had to compete with, Roger and Rafa. There was no one else. His winning percentage against Rafa? Not that good.
Nadal_Django
Legend
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