USTA Georgia
- Thread starter MRfStop
- Start date
schmke
Legend
There is a lot of tennis played there, and from what I hear USTA isn't even as big as ALTA there!
I'm not allowed to post links to my blog here (but others can), but I have done a variety of analysis before and Georgia has a lot of registered players. Below is a chart from a few years ago showing players by state. Georgia was second only to California, and that is two sections! Google "usta league players by state schmidt computer" if you want to find the blog post.
But from a Nationals standpoint, Georgia has not done as well as other states in Southern.
I'm not allowed to post links to my blog here (but others can), but I have done a variety of analysis before and Georgia has a lot of registered players. Below is a chart from a few years ago showing players by state. Georgia was second only to California, and that is two sections! Google "usta league players by state schmidt computer" if you want to find the blog post.
But from a Nationals standpoint, Georgia has not done as well as other states in Southern.
MRfStop
Hall of Fame
It probably would be hard to calculate but I know that are a lot of players in Georgia and a lot of the more populated areas have players that play well above their rating. The Macon teams see it every year at state. 4.0s that played in the fall but got bumped to 4.5 and probably never should've played 4.0 because that's how good they are. Atlanta is the big city with an abundance of talent but there is Columbus, Dalton, and Rome with very good players. But I am not sure if any of those have had a team from any category go to nationals.There is a lot of tennis played there, and from what I hear USTA isn't even as big as ALTA there!
I'm not allowed to post links to my blog here (but others can), but I have done a variety of analysis before and Georgia has a lot of registered players. Below is a chart from a few years ago showing players by state. Georgia was second only to California, and that is two sections! Google "usta league players by state schmidt computer" if you want to find the blog post.
But from a Nationals standpoint, Georgia has not done as well as other states in Southern.
The cynic in me says that's because it's pretty hard to cheat enough to win nationals when you've got USTA Southern HQ in your state.
ace18
Professional
let me tell you about this one..my team played a team Sunday that was fighting for the playoffs, we were not. When the scorecard came out, they listed both our 2D and 3D players with wrong names, 2 of the guys they listed didn't even play. For, 2D they listed the wrong score, and made the match score much closer than it was. The 3D score was correct, however, the winning team put in a wrong guy for one of their positions. Is that just coincidence or are they trying to pull one over. haha
MRfStop
Hall of Fame
Or like getting your team mates to lie for you when you get a grievance filed against you
Nacho
Hall of Fame
I grew up playing in Atlanta during the 70's and 80's. Its always been a hotbed of Jr and Adult tennis, and goes to show what a well run local league can do for the game. I believe most of the success lies in the tennis around Atlanta, Macon, and Savannah, but even cities like Augusta, Columbus, and Albany have a strong historic contingent of good players and good rec. players. For Atlanta its such a hot market for people to move to it really has its pick of players that come and go, unlike other cities. And the year round ability to play outside and access to public clubs makes it strong. Doesn't surprise me that they have teams in the mix, actually I would expect more then I see given the amount of player participation there, but many just stick with ALTA and don't care about USTA.
ace18
Professional
You are right about ALTA, USTA can't touch ALTA in regards to participation. Alta cost 25 bucks for the year. Any team you play on after that is free. USTA is 45.00 for the year, ~19.00 for each team you play on. More and more people that I know skip USTA altogether. I'm about to the point to tell USTA peace out. We have T2 Tennis, Ultimate Tennis, Peach Tennis, League tennis, all flex leagues that allow play.
Nacho
Hall of Fame
Sad thing is that there were many local associations like this across the country that took care of the needs of local tennis, Jr's and Adults. These were always considered rivals of the USTA, and were eventually out funded and pushed out of the tennis business, especially when it came to Jr tennis. Some are still around and organize some adult tennis here and there, but they can't compete with the massive USTA. ALTA on the other hand has managed to co-exist, and although their influence on Jr tennis has decreased they still maintain a viable option for adult tennis.
ace18
Professional
Yes, sorry, I was thinking adults only. Yes USTA has the kids locked up.
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
The strongest southern sections are Florida, Atlanta, and North Carolina.
woodje12
Rookie
Not for long... Seeing more and more junior parents focusing on UTR in their city instead of chasing USTA points across their region.
We're starting to do it and I know of a woman who has a daughter going D-1 this fall. She used to fly to the Easter Bowl in CA and what not, now with her younger daughter they're playing local UTR events against older boys mainly. She even thinks playing doubles against boys with their more aggressive net game is better for her than playing high level girls doubles.
Nacho
Hall of Fame
Agreed, and good to hear; UTR is the thing that is giving options to kids besides trying to go through the "system". USTA is on to this though and they are attempting to compensate by collaborating with UTR, so enjoy while it lasts.
MathGeek
Hall of Fame
Not any more with UTR. We are home schoolers, so our son did not have a high school team option, so he played mostly USTA tourneys, which were the dominant option until UTR came along. UTR events are more fun and more interesting for several reasons.
Our teen calls more of the shots than the parents. He has a full academic scholarship, so dreams of DI or even DIII are not an issue. He just gets out and competes. But the UTR tourneys are a good time. Sure, if the USTA tourney is closer and more convenient, he might play that one.
BeyondTheTape
Semi-Pro
it feels like im playing in a gym sauna down here at Southern Sectionals in Mobile. 90% humidity. IV tents on site...help
Atlanta GA has two 4.0 M teams down here at Sectionals. 0-3 combined through Day 1. So if you feel butt hurt that they destroyed your league/team, consider that they are bottom feeders here.
MRfStop
Hall of Fame
Lol definitely not butt hurtit feels like im playing in a gym sauna down here at Southern Sectionals in Mobile. 90% humidity. IV tents on site...help
Atlanta GA has two 4.0 M teams down here at Sectionals. 0-3 combined through Day 1. So if you feel butt hurt that they destroyed your league/team, consider that they are bottom feeders here.
Nacho
Hall of Fame
it feels like im playing in a gym sauna down here at Southern Sectionals in Mobile. 90% humidity. IV tents on site...help
Atlanta GA has two 4.0 M teams down here at Sectionals. 0-3 combined through Day 1. So if you feel butt hurt that they destroyed your league/team, consider that they are bottom feeders here.
ha ha....pedialyte, I swear by it. Go get some and put it in your water
MRfStop
Hall of Fame
What team were you on?it feels like im playing in a gym sauna down here at Southern Sectionals in Mobile. 90% humidity. IV tents on site...help
Atlanta GA has two 4.0 M teams down here at Sectionals. 0-3 combined through Day 1. So if you feel butt hurt that they destroyed your league/team, consider that they are bottom feeders here.
I know just about all of the guys from the Atlanta team. Several of them have been 4.5 in the past and many will most likely be bumped up again at the end of the year. To see them get manhandled just shows how out of whack USTA really is. Unfortunately a genuine 4.0 has no business competing at 4.0 Sectionals. They simply wouldn't stand a chance.
MRfStop
Hall of Fame
For example, if you play in a smaller tennis population lets say like Macon. You work on your game, you try to get better, you beat up on some people in local league matches as a 3.5. Then you go to state and you win lose some. Then at the end of the year you get bumped to 4.0 and you're competitive but at state you get smoked by the Atlanta teams. There is no way you can compete against players at the state level who are currently playing 4.5/5.0 players let alone the sectional level where people are much better.
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
They are clearly sandbagging worse than Atlanta! Inconceivable!
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
But here is the thing. You are not supposed to be guaranteed to compete at sectionals, states, nationals, etc. This isn’t a “millennial soccer mom everybody gets a trophy” situation. The players at sectionals or states or nationals are all the very best in their division or they wouldn’t be there.
Stone cold truth —> If you are an average 4.0, you should expect to get beat soundly at states or nationals, because those are the players that should be beating you soundly. “An average 4.0 can’t even compete at nationals” - well, yeah. No kidding. That’s how it is supposed work.
That’s basically saying “an average 4.0 will almost always lose to a top level 4.0”. Well, yes, exactly. Who would disagree? If an average 4.0 in Macon wants to compete at 4.0 states/sectionals/nationals, they need to get better.
MRfStop
Hall of Fame
http://www.tennisrecord.com/adult/teamprofile.aspx?teamname=USTA Atlanta/Bobby Dubay&year=2018
You heard right. How is this entire team not DQ’d? Entire team self rated as 3.5s and some as 3.0s and then they win the Southern district championship how is that fair? One guy is 16-0 lol
MRfStop
Hall of Fame
But if an average 4.0 gets better to the point to where they can compete they get bumped. There are no 4.5 leagues in my area so there is incentive
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
I would say that 4.0 needs to both get better and sandbag their rating locally to compete at state. The other 4.0s at state are either doing the same or at high risk of getting bumped too. It affects everyone equally.
You can't make this crap up. One guy on that team on 2018 teams is 21-0 (41-2 in sets won/lost). He's on a 2019 3.5 team as well. On that team he's 0-3 (0-6 in sets won/lost.) If that's not an open and shut case of trying to manipulate a rating I don't know what else needs to be done.
As for the guy who was a 2 star recruit and HS champ why dind't anyone file a grievance? Seems that is clearly against the self rate grid.
i heard grumblings of people wanting to file a grievance over the weekend. but at that point it probably is just too late. not much can be done to change the end results, right? the former 2 star recruit also beat a dq'd player during the season. how did that also slip through.
Unfortunately in Southern you are correct. Grievances filed during sectionals and dq's happening during sectionals are not dealt with until after the event. Just surprised he made it all the way through local league and GA State championship without anyone filing a grievance in which the player should clearly be DQ'd due to improper self-rate.
schmke
Legend
Perhaps there is an unwritten rule about filing (nor not) grievances as folks don't want to be "that captain"?
And yes, grievances have to be filed prior to Sectionals, there may even be some period prior they have to be in by. This sort of makes sense as you don't want someone to make the trip and get there then have a grievance filed and not get to play. But I can't imagine the real bad situations haven't been discovered far enough in advance to do something.
And yes, I'm not a fan of the don't DQ until after the event rule interpretation. It is clearly good for the team with the player who gets (or may get) DQ'd, but arguably not fair to the others that have to play them.
MRfStop
Hall of Fame
USTA Georgia will DQ players (not sure why they haven't for the 3.5 team) but the results of their matches are not over turned.
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
2-star recruits may be legit 3.5 players though. There is a lot of variation at the 2-star level.
it feels like im playing in a gym sauna down here at Southern Sectionals in Mobile. 90% humidity. IV tents on site...help
Atlanta GA has two 4.0 M teams down here at Sectionals. 0-3 combined through Day 1. So if you feel butt hurt that they destroyed your league/team, consider that they are bottom feeders here.
One of the GA teams is actually from Athens GA. Nice group of guys. They were given a wild card with not much lead time, and came w/o their top players, if I remember correctly.
the heat was miserable. i held up well but the heat got to my partner at points, especially on Friday when we had two matches. everyone i came across was awesome and fun to have on the court. i did hear the guys cursing and screaming at each other on Friday. that was amusing.
BeyondTheTape
Semi-Pro
we must've crossed paths yesterday as i was also there. Congrats to you and your team on a great year and getting to the finals. And for getting through the heat. I know i was sucking for wind that first match. It was quite the achievement to make it that far. When the official who was presenting the lineups with both teams standing across from each other and announced how difficult it was to get there to represent the 1% of Southern players that make it to Sectionals, i felt accomplished. Regardless of the outcome it was a special weekend!
schmke
Legend
I just wrote on my blog about what states won at Sectionals this year, but Georgia did as well as any winning at two of the levels. Just North Carolina also had two wins, the rest distributed among the other states.
g4driver
Legend
Not every time who comes to Mobile earned their spot. Some get their when others teams tell the Southern USTA and Mobile AL to "whiz" up a rope.. cause Papa India Sierra Sierra gets you a •••• [emoji102]
g4driver
Legend
Because the SC men only declined USTA Southern back in May. Let's see USTA Southern only had two months to inform the GA team of the wildcard but didn't. Fail by the Southern USTA Office yet again.
schmke
Legend
Was the SC runner up given the option of taking the spot? Perhaps they took a long time to decide causing the last minute WC? (not that I'm out to defend Southern ...)
g4driver
Legend
The runner up has the option to go, but SC is adamant about getting a yes or no and giving a team or teams deadlines.
IMO, Southern USTA simply does get that these players have lives, spouses, kids, careers and usually gives the team less than a week notice when someone pulls out.
Another part of the problem is Mobile. Teams that have been their several times don't want the 11+ hour drive and chance all the rain. Hilton Head for combo is a much nicer place for Combo. Great weather, on Hilton Head Island. Max of 3.5 drive and who cares if you advance to Mobile for Combo Sectionals.
If Southern Sectionals were in Asheville or in Georgia, more teams wouldn't decline. The 4.0 and 4.5 men from SC both declined Mobile 18+ Sectionals. That is a statement to Southern that SC Men don't want to come to Mobile and they didn't go. I know lots of players on both those SC 18+ teams and they didn't miss any part of Mobil Al in July.
IMO, Southern USTA simply does get that these players have lives, spouses, kids, careers and usually gives the team less than a week notice when someone pulls out.
Another part of the problem is Mobile. Teams that have been their several times don't want the 11+ hour drive and chance all the rain. Hilton Head for combo is a much nicer place for Combo. Great weather, on Hilton Head Island. Max of 3.5 drive and who cares if you advance to Mobile for Combo Sectionals.
If Southern Sectionals were in Asheville or in Georgia, more teams wouldn't decline. The 4.0 and 4.5 men from SC both declined Mobile 18+ Sectionals. That is a statement to Southern that SC Men don't want to come to Mobile and they didn't go. I know lots of players on both those SC 18+ teams and they didn't miss any part of Mobil Al in July.
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
Agree that there are much more attractive tennis locations for Southern than Mobile. Asheville, Hilton Head, Kiawah, Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, USTA campus in Orlando, etc. But you got to follow the $$.
g4driver
Legend
Kiawah has 10 courts. Hardly suitable for local players.
Mobile bids for the Southern Sectionals. Hilton Head doesn't want or need any more tourists in July. They are closing restaurants due to lack of local servers. Wall Street or Washington Post wrote about that this year
Mobile Al is the only site that continually bids for Southern Sectionals in July. Hard to lose the USAT Southern bid as the only bidder. Until the USTA gives another place any incentive to host Southern Sectionals, Mobile will keep getting it as nobody else wants it. Fact.
Mobile, Al needs the money from players in food, beverage and hotels. That is the problem.
Charleston SC gave up Combo Championships 10 years ago as they didn't want or need any more players here for a weekend. Hilton Head is much more suited for a State or Sectional Championship than Charleston due to all the courts.
schmke
Legend
This is the key point as I've learned asking around. The USTA doesn't just choose where to go and bully their way in, different facilities have to bid to have the USTA come. If no other facilities than Mobile want to bid, that is what you get.
Now perhaps the USTA could encourage some facilities to bid that don't, but if you want to have Sectionals/Nationals in a different facility, lobby that facility to bid I guess.
g4driver
Legend
This is a major problem. One City that wants Sectionals that has the most rainfall of any lower 48 City and up to a 15 hour drive from NC.
Hot, humid with lots of rain. And it isn't coastal Florida. That is why many Southern team just say "no thanks " to Mobile.
GripItNRipIt
New User
Well I now have a question about location suitability. I was in Mobile and Saturday was the worst heat index I've ever played in. I watched a LA guy get stretchered off, numerous IV drips at the main facility, and nearly called a teammate to drive me to the hospital that night because I was so dehydrated and heat exhausted I was physically ill. Long story short...
Our team was discussing other possible sites, and one question I haven't seen answered is, does it have to be facility(ies) with hard courts only, or can it be a mix of hard/clay? I know of at least one city with much more tolerable weather than Mobile in July, as long as clay was an option.
I mean, I'm from Alabama and live in Arkansas, so I know humid heat, but Mobile nearly did me in...
Our team was discussing other possible sites, and one question I haven't seen answered is, does it have to be facility(ies) with hard courts only, or can it be a mix of hard/clay? I know of at least one city with much more tolerable weather than Mobile in July, as long as clay was an option.
I mean, I'm from Alabama and live in Arkansas, so I know humid heat, but Mobile nearly did me in...
