Wawrinka vs. Murray at AO?

[BGod]

This might be interesting. We know about the Trilogy but Wawrinka lost 2 of his meetings with Novak including the 3rd which sputtered out in the end. And plenty Rafa fans call the 14 victory over Nadal a downgraded one due to back injury.

Murray of course made 5 Finals to Stan's 1 and overall 6 SF+ to 3.

Murray lost 4 Finals and a Semi to Novak including peak editions of 11-12, 15-16 and a Final to still prime Federer in 2010.

So the question is overall who was better at the event?

I will add the 5 Finals only trails Big 3 (like always)

 

[DSH]

MuryGoat!

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Consistency Murray
Peak Stan
(That's true for practically every tournament except for grass court)

 

[RS]

Consistency Murray
Peak Stan
(That's true for practically every tournament except for grass court)

AO - 11-9 Stan
RG - 12-8 Stan
Wim - 17-3 Murray
USO - 11-9 Murray
YEC - 14-6 Murray

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

AO - 11-9 Stan
RG - 12-8 Stan
Wim - 17-3 Murray
USO - 11-9 Murray
YEC - 14-6 Murray

Aye

 

[RS]

Aye

Yours?

 

[RS]

I would have given Stan 13-7 at RG if I had not recently watched that RG 16 SF Murray brilliance.

Save for Nadal that Murray gives anybody problems in this era.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Yours?

10 match series would suffice, why have you increased it to 20?

 

[RS]

10 match series would suffice, why have you increased it to 20?

Mixing things

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

Mixing things

You're mixing sulphur in gunpowder

 

[RS]

You're mixing sulphur in gunpowder

You can do 10 if ya want

 

[Deleted member 629564]

I think Murray's.
A lot more consistent.
Five lost finals hurt, but overall it's a certificate of the highest level of a HC skillset.

 

[Chanwan]

I think Murray's.
A lot more consistent.
Five lost finals hurt, but overall it's a certificate of the highest level of a HC skillset.

Did Murray show up in any of those finals, though?

 

[Deleted member 629564]

Did Murray show up in any of those finals, though?

Of course.

2013: won 1st set, had three breakpoints in the 2nd, but lost 2nd set TB. It was very close to 2-0 lead.
2015: at one set all he was leading 2-0 in the 3rd set.

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

You can do 10 if ya want

Stop bumping threads

 

[Chanwan]

Of course.

2013: won 1st set, had three breakpoints in the 2nd, but lost 2nd set TB. It was very close to 2-0 lead.
2015: at one set all he was leading 2-0 in the 3rd set.

Very close? If only there had not been a feather, right?
2015 he was in the midst of his 10+ (or however many it was) losing streak to Djoko. The outcome was nid imo

 

[mahatma]

Peak wawrinka is just something else. Assuming it’s a peak vs peak match - Wawrinka obliterates Murray in straights.

 

[RS]

Stop bumping threads

I didn't

 

[Rafa4LifeEver]

I didn't

You MADE the thread

 

[junior74]

Wawrinka for peak performance. Murray for consistency.

And then they killed each other...

 

[timnz]

This might be interesting. We know about the Trilogy but Wawrinka lost 2 of his meetings with Novak including the 3rd which sputtered out in the end. And plenty Rafa fans call the 14 victory over Nadal a downgraded one due to back injury.

Murray of course made 5 Finals to Stan's 1 and overall 6 SF+ to 3.

Murray lost 4 Finals and a Semi to Novak including peak editions of 11-12, 15-16 and a Final to still prime Federer in 2010.

So the question is overall who was better at the event?

I will add the 5 Finals only trails Big 3 (like always)

Those 5 AO finals that Murray lost, you have to look at the competition. That to me is superior to Wawrinka‘s one winning tournament. slams are 7 matches to one. what is Wawrinka‘s record at the AO outside of that 1 win? Does his next say, best 7 results compare with Murray’s?

 

[NatF]

Those 5 AO finals that Murray lost, you have to look at the competition. That to me is superior to Wawrinka‘s one winning tournament. slams are 7 matches to one. what is Wawrinka‘s record at the AO outside of that 1 win? Does his next say, best 7 results compare with Murray’s?

Looking at the competition Wawrinka performed better against the same players.

 

[timnz]

Looking at the competition Wawrinka performed better against the same players.

But what is his record at the AO other than that win? I see that there was one semi and 2 quarters. That doesn’t compare well to Murray’s five finals (four if you take out his best result) plus other semi’s.

 

[NatF]

But what is his record at the AO other than that win?

Multiple SF's. Switch draws around and he'd have more finals. He was in Djokovic's half three years in a row.

 

[timnz]

Multiple SF's. Switch draws around and he'd have more finals. He was in Djokovic's half three years in a row.

Only 1 semi in 2017. his other 2 best performances were quarter finals.

 

[NatF]

Only 1 semi in 2017. his other 2 best performances were quarter finals.

SF in 2015 as well.

 

[Sampras-Bruguera 1993]

if peak stan shows up then Murray is toast. Over the course of 10 matches though, Murray has the advantage as he wears him down

 

[timnz]

SF in 2015 as well.

Apologies - yes you are right. However that trails significantly the large number of final places for Murray

 

[NatF]

Apologies - yes you are right. However that trails significantly the large number of final places for Murray

Yes but Wawrinka actually has a title and he pushed Djokovic harder than Murray in did in 2013 and 2015.

 

[alexio]

Yes but Wawrinka actually has a title and he pushed Djokovic harder than Murray in did in 2013 and 2015.

pushed someone harder dont mean always better player, how many times agassi pushed pete to fifth at uso

 

[PerilousPear]

Stan the better player, but Mury will leave a greater legacy when they name the runner-up plate after him.

 

[NatF]

pushed someone harder dont mean always better player, how many times agassi pushed pete to fifth at uso

He played better for sure in 2013 IMO. The 2015 SF was a terrible a match but at least Wawrinka waited until the fifth set to be bagelled lol. In Murray's five AO finals he's lost in straights three times and in the two matches he took a set he only won 8/32 games in the last two sets...so yeah he has a lot of finals but he's not once had a really strong showing.

 

[RS]

He played better for sure in 2013 IMO. The 2015 SF was a terrible a match but at least Wawrinka waited until the fifth set to be bagelled lol. In Murray's five AO finals he's lost in straights three times and in the two matches he took a set he only won 8/32 games in the last two sets...so yeah he has a lot of finals but he's not once had a really strong showing.

out of 10?

 

[NatF]

out of 10?

You first

 

[RS]

You first

Didn't see the full match honestly. But would be a similar level to Murray?

Based on what I saw Djokovic was worse to me but Stan did a set better.

 

[NatF]

Didn't see the full match honestly. But would be a similar level to Murray?

Based on what I saw Djokovic was worse to me but Stan did a set better.

Djokovic was definitely worse, fourth set from him was terrible with 0 winners lol. Still Murray just totally collapsed part way through the third set...

 

[StrongRule]

But what is his record at the AO other than that win? I see that there was one semi and 2 quarters. That doesn’t compare well to Murray’s five finals (four if you take out his best result) plus other semi’s.

You don't deserve credit for reaching finals and playing terrible tennis in them. Murray didn't play well in any of his 5 AO finals, at best case he showed a decent level for 1-2 sets. Can't blame the competition here.

 

[D.Nalby12]

Peak to peak Wawrinka wins except on grass.

 

[Kralingen]

Why doesn’t Murray get credit for beating a good Federer at the AO, something Wawrinka never could do on any hard court?

 

[NatF]

Why doesn’t Murray get credit for beating a good Federer at the AO, something Wawrinka never could do on any hard court?

He can have credit for beating a mediocre Federer.

 

[Kralingen]

He can have credit for beating a mediocre Federer.

Federer AO 13 ~ AO 11, AO 08, AO 14, AO 16 no?

The injury wasn’t until the sunshine double in 13

 

[NatF]

Federer AO 13 ~ AO 11, AO 08, AO 14, AO 16 no?

The injury wasn’t until the sunshine double in 13

He was already wearing a back bracelet iirc. He was certainly not moving or playing as well as prior years. Playing all those exhos in the off season in 2012 was one of Fed's most foolish decisions.

Not a huge difference between 2013 and AO 14/16 but he had a higher gear in 2008/2011.

 

[TTMR]

AO - 11-9 Stan
RG - 12-8 Stan
Wim - 17-3 Murray
USO - 11-9 Murray
YEC - 14-6 Murray

Stan beat Murray at the USO multiple times.

Come on, man.

 

[timnz]

Yes but Wawrinka actually has a title and he pushed Djokovic harder than Murray in did in 2013 and 2015.

2012 AO Semi final - Murray lost to Djokovic but it was a 4 hour 50 minute match.

 

[NatF]

2012 AO Semi final - Murray lost to Djokovic but it was a 4 hour 50 minute match.

Yes, Wawrinka didn't play Djokovic in 2012. I'm referring to tournaments Murray made the final but Wawrinka played him tougher.

 

[Kralingen]

He was already wearing a back bracelet iirc. He was certainly not moving or playing as well as prior years. Playing all those exhos in the off season in 2012 was one of Fed's most foolish decisions.

Not a huge difference between 2013 and AO 14/16 but he had a higher gear in 2008/2011.

I was trolling a bit here but I do feel the 13 win gets erased unnecessarily. Murray played some good stuff (against a subpar Fed, of course, but still) and arguably should’ve been up 2-0 vs Djokovic in the final. The level was worthy of a better result than his mentality allowed him

I don’t think much of Murray’s level post back injury. Even in 2016 he wasn’t really as good as 12-13.

 

[RS]

Stan beat Murray at the USO multiple times.

Come on, man.

I could be wrong. I didn't think.

 

[NatF]

I was trolling a bit here but I do feel the 13 win gets erased unnecessarily. Murray played some good stuff (against a subpar Fed, of course, but still) and arguably should’ve been up 2-0 vs Djokovic in the final. The level was worthy of a better result than his mentality allowed him

I don’t think much of Murray’s level post back injury. Even in 2016 he wasn’t really as good as 12-13.

Fair enough, it was a good enough win but the fact 2013 Fed extended Murray in one his best runs to five doesn't speak too kindly of Murray's level.

 

[RS]

If Murray closed it out in 4 vs Fed.

 

[timnz]

Yes, Wawrinka didn't play Djokovic in 2012. I'm referring to tournaments Murray made the final but Wawrinka played him tougher.

Discussed this semi to show that Murray could post Djokovic really hard