SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Not when he is still unbalanced -- just recovering from his own service motion. See post #48
What happens if Roger's opponent belts the ball at him when he attempts the SABR?
- Thread starter Levi_Ackerman
- Start date
Not when he is still unbalanced -- just recovering from his own service motion. See post #48
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
The thing is, this response wouldn't be exlusive to the SABR; you can hit at the player whenever they come in for whatever reason, as Lendl did in that vid. I'm not sure why the SABR would have the monopoly on this response over other more orthodox modes of entry to the net area. You can throw the proverbial towel in and just blast at them in any likewise situation.
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
What would happen if Novak did this?
Obviously, Federer would start to cry. Real hard. Both from the unbearable physical trauma and the unrepairable scratch to his all-consuming ego.
NYPD would then rush the court and tackle Djovak real bad, James Blake-style, and drag him off court by his feet. The title would immediately be awarded Roger, and Djovak would be stripped of all his ranking points (and his clothes, because why not).
Novak would then be sentenced to execution by firing squad: Isner, Karlovic, Groth and Raonic firing serves concurrently straight at him from a distance of 10 feet.
Obviously, Federer would start to cry. Real hard. Both from the unbearable physical trauma and the unrepairable scratch to his all-consuming ego.
NYPD would then rush the court and tackle Djovak real bad, James Blake-style, and drag him off court by his feet. The title would immediately be awarded Roger, and Djovak would be stripped of all his ranking points (and his clothes, because why not).
Novak would then be sentenced to execution by firing squad: Isner, Karlovic, Groth and Raonic firing serves concurrently straight at him from a distance of 10 feet.
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beast of mallorca
G.O.A.T.
It would be awesome if Djoker hits him directly on his face/on him. I think as Darren Cahill has said, that should be the play to execute.
G
Golden
Guest
Can offer a rebuttal. I've been pegged with a 60mph/100kph ball in the unfortunate area, and I've been pegged by a decently fast ball in the chest. Both hurt, and I'm only a 4.0.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
cruel punishment in a cruel world!
I'm aware of that but a decent amount of the SABR's are not well hit. They are blocked back, but stop their path and sit up for them to be hit. The server has ample time to hit them but is rushed by Fed being at the net. But on at least half of the SABR's, the server has a decent to great shot at going for Fed
The_18th_Slam
Hall of Fame
Well, fair enough. I guess I shouldn't have been presumptuous. However, did they hurt enough for you to not be able to perform at your best afterward?
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
But then how do you account for the success of SABR? There have not been very many successful replies at all to the SABR tactic. Roger is half-volleying the ball back but typically gets it back quickly and deep. Don't believe that the server has "ample time" very often with this tactic.
BTW, noticed that you just hit the 10k mark for posts.
EDIT: For clarity sake: I was talking about Djokovic hitting Fed with his serve in that post you quoted.
I'm not saying Djokovic can't hit Federer because he lacks the skill, I'm saying Federer can dodge his serve from that distance. Djokovic doesn't have the fastest serve on tour either. It would be really stupid to try and hit your opponent on your 2nd serve because that only makes you lose the point by a DF and gives your opponent (Federer) even more reason to use the SABR.
Also, that video from Federer is almost surely fake (they would never let Federer potentially hurt someone for a cool video). Murray tried it in a gameshow and he sucked at it.
G
Golden
Guest
I take it that you're a woman. That, or you've never had your boys hit hard. I was down for a good 30 minutes. And even then, I couldn't run that well for about an hour afterward.
As for the chest, it left a welt. More of an annoyance thing. However, I was extremely angry, and that caused me to play worse. I guess getting hit in the face would leave more of a mental impact than a simple shot in the chest. Kind of a "How dare he?" type of thing. Just guessing though, I could be completely wrong.
They're pros trying to win a match. Trying to hit Fed, which most likely will result in a double fault or other kinds of failure, is a stupid idea. Becker knows this as well.
It might have a fancy new name, but SABR is the good old chip & charge used for decades.
Trying to hit Fed as he approaches is just about as dumb as trying to aim a serve at the other guy and injure him.
It might have a fancy new name, but SABR is the good old chip & charge used for decades.
Trying to hit Fed as he approaches is just about as dumb as trying to aim a serve at the other guy and injure him.
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Not quite. The good old chip & charge was chip first, then charge. This is more like rush in (during the toss) and then half-volley the return. Fed get to the net quicker with SABR. And SABR gives the server less time to recover that the good old chip & charge.
But I do agree that going after Fed might not be the best option for the server.
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
Hah, can't believe Boris actually wrote this..
Such a cheese
It's hilarious that Boom Boom and Novak are both very much riled up by this.
In fact, deliberately trying to tag Roger would be much more "disrespectful" and foul than SABR itself, albeit still a completely legit tactic, that too.
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
I saw Tursunov hit a ball boy (who was standing at the back fence during warm ups) in the junk vs Bellucci in the 1st round in Shanghai a few yrs back - the kid stood there and didn't move. When the match started and the first ball was hit that the kid needed to round up, he just stood there. Finally one of the lines people figured out what happened - they took him off court - he wasn't walking very fast and laid him down. About 30 minutes later he got up and appeared to be ok. Not sure he'll be adding to China's 1.3 billion population though...
LoboLaw1984
Rookie
Are you kidding me?
Intentionally trying to injure someone is assault and that is a crime!
Gosh, some people!
"Yes judge I aimed my 100+ mph serve right at his face, but you know he did it on himself because I thought he was too close and that is disrespectful, assaulting people who are disrespectful is right in my opinion".
Not assault
HRB
Hall of Fame
What would happen? Ummn..simple, Rog would be happy knowing that is your tactic, takes the guess work out of where the ball is going, and he'd hold his racquet up and put away winning volley after winning volley. Hell he'd probably thank you for being so predictable, and sure maybe get he'd hit with a few balls, but who the hell cares IT'S A TENNIS BALL.
Minus hitting your own "balls" or your throat or eye..it's a GODDAMN TENNIS BALL. Damn, have you pussies played other sports???? Yes, I've gotten line drived by a tennis ball going 80 plus, doesn't even leave welts, 10 second stinger at most. Try a baseball (ouch, been there down that not fun) or a Lacrosse Ball, yeah no good.
Minus hitting your own "balls" or your throat or eye..it's a GODDAMN TENNIS BALL. Damn, have you pussies played other sports???? Yes, I've gotten line drived by a tennis ball going 80 plus, doesn't even leave welts, 10 second stinger at most. Try a baseball (ouch, been there down that not fun) or a Lacrosse Ball, yeah no good.
Praetorian
Professional
Are you kidding me?
Intentionally trying to injure someone is assault and that is a crime!
Gosh, some people!
"Yes judge I aimed my 100+ mph serve right at his face, but you know he did it on himself because I thought he was too close and that is disrespectful, assaulting people who are disrespectful is right in my opinion".
And that's why people look at tennis as a soft sport. Contact sports like football (american, soccer, rugby), hockey, and even to an extent, basketball would ROFL at that statement, that they laugh themselves into the injured unable to participate list. LOL
West Coast Ace
G.O.A.T.
Amen. I played a lot of baseball - lost count of how many times I got drilled with pitches, bad hops in the infield. Then there was basketball - getting elbowed, knocked down on hard wooden floors. And I agree - the fact that some tennis people say ridiculous things like this is why many won't even give the sport a look and still think it's for people named Spaulding at the private club.
Praetorian
Professional
they way i look at is this
1. If Roger did get hit, he'd just blame himself for not getting out of the way, or not able to make a play on the ball.
2. Clearly, many of you have never really played competitive doubles as guys at the net are always on the lookout to getting hit. Ever get hit by an overhead smash from a guy 15 ft away. Get nailed in the back by your own partners serve. It hurts for, like, 10 secs - no big deal.
1. If Roger did get hit, he'd just blame himself for not getting out of the way, or not able to make a play on the ball.
2. Clearly, many of you have never really played competitive doubles as guys at the net are always on the lookout to getting hit. Ever get hit by an overhead smash from a guy 15 ft away. Get nailed in the back by your own partners serve. It hurts for, like, 10 secs - no big deal.
The_18th_Slam
Hall of Fame
Lol, no, I'm a guy. And I've already set aside being hit in the eye and in your nardles as special situations. I was asking about your being hit in the chest.I take it that you're a woman. That, or you've never had your boys hit hard. I was down for a good 30 minutes. And even then, I couldn't run that well for about an hour afterward.
Exactly. And that's my point. Unless you're hit in the eye or in your nardles, it doesn't leave any lasting physical damage to hurt your play. It's more mental than anything else.
HRB
Hall of Fame
For sure...the sport on the recreational level (ie ours) does not attract that many true athletes, giving us all a bad image. Have you ever seen some of your fellow players "throw" a ball back to you...sometimes it's painful to watch...I rather they use their racquets. Love the sport, but the snob/sissy image still exist..oh well.
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
Its obvious, a tennis ball alright but they hit it so hard I would be curious to know the exact weight of the ball when it hit your body, a shot like this one
even though Berdych got it in the arm I am sure he felt a bit sore but didnt want to show it
now imagine this same forehand from Almargo to his face, swollen face like someone punched him
By the way I think Murray hit some passing shots right to Federers body when he was coached by Lendl
none seemed bothered, not even the crowd, legit shot IMO
newpball
Legend
Not true, if someone intentionally injures an opponent it would be assault, whether it is done in a match or not! The only exception are fighting sports but even there are clear limits.
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
I always wondered if a player deliberately hit a passing shot or overhead at the guys face and the guy has to retire because of that, what do ITF rules say in that case?
You have every right to hit the ball straight at your opponent. The only time you shouldn't do it is if they've scrambled for a drop shot and popped up an easy ball you can put anywhere in the open court. Otherwise, drilling the ball straight at the opponent is perfectly legitimate in the professional game. There are already people out there who have the ball smashed at them several times per game....the centre serve line judges...and they don't have a racquet for protection.
The injured player defaults.
kramer woodie
Professional
Every had someone punch you in the face as hard as they can without warning? I have, right on the cheek bone, head snapped back then forward. I
was startled, shocked, and began to laugh. Why? Simple the coward who hit me broke his hand and that hand caused him about 6 weeks of pain,
probably never functioned quite right every again and hurt every time the weather changed. My cheek bone and the side of my face quit hurting about
5 minutes after being hit. I real think most of the pain was from the surprise of being hit and not prepared. Teaching tennis, I probably get hit a least
4-5 times a day when feeding balls quickly to would be power players. I shake it off and say good shot, if in fact, it is a well struck ball. Of course,
that's what adults do.
Aloha
SQA333
Hall of Fame
That face looked more like one of resignation, where he knew he was Nadal's biatch that year.Yeah, I suppose the prospect of getting hit in the face by a tennis ball travelling at anything between 80mph and over is something most tennis players look forward to with excitement. I mean, just look at the look on Djokovic's face at 0.13 mark; he enjoyed that.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
The implication that Nole hasn't done something like that before on Fed's many traditional chip-and-charge forays because he is such a gent is ludicrous. They are champions playing for the trophy. If he could, he would go straight to body. As others have said, the SABR is struck on the half volley with Fed much further in the court than if he were simply hitting a slice and following it into the net. So there is less time to react for the player who has just finished serving. Couple of times, the SABR shot has gone for a winner. Get that?
BevelDevil
Hall of Fame
Stan tried to nail Rog with a backhand after a SABR but he hit the tape. Btw, I think having a 1hbh would be best when dealing with a SABR. A lot easier to generate pace when reaching or slightly off balance.
Levi_Ackerman
Legend
OMG. You were/are serious. OMG this guy is serious! LMFAO! I guess I was laughing at you. And I guess I still am. LMFAO!
P.S. tennis is a contact sport! lol
"Assault".
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
Did that discourage Vitas or anybody else, including liar Becker, from charging Lendl? I don't think so. That's a risk anybody charging the net runs and they take it. Only Berdych would complain about that and Federer is not Berdych. You must not play a lot of doubles if you think shots straight to body would discourage volleyers from taking away the net. Besides, it's just a tennis ball. Ever taken hard balls, used in cricket, on the head or the groin? Way more painful.
zagor
Bionic Poster
Oh yeah, Berdych was such a sour puss when Almagro tagged him at the net. While that showed Berdman's character, it also showed how much serve and volley is dead and buried because that used to happen all the time to guys like Rafter and Edberg while Berdych was shocked/surprised. It shows the general climate in tennis, I'm beginning to wander if I'll ever see another Rafter (pure serve and volleyer competing for the big titles) given the way things are going (in terms of tennis academies, conditions etc.)
bigservesofthands
Semi-Pro
One response to SABR like tactics that has worked for me is a slight adjustment to the kick second serve to put it in short and in the middle of the box rather than going for the corners and closer to the service line. There is more margin because the target is bigger and you can go for a bigger kick. It becomes a body serve in effect for someone who is charging the net in the lowered athletic stance or to some one who stands close to the service line to receive a second serve. I put a slight top slice as well for good effect to get the ball to curve a bit into the body. I have had to perfect this serve to play against a player who plays only doubles has quick hands and stands on the service line with a 110 sq in racquet for all serves and half volleys his returns. In his case the intentions are telegraphed well ahead of time so it makes hitting this serve pretty comfortable.
The same tactic has worked recently against Federer SABR wannabees too.
The drawback to the serve is if the charge does not come then this serve becomes more attackable than a well placed kicker if the returner stays behind the base line. This is because the bounce starts in the middle of the box. As a server you have very little time to make the decision if the player is agile and runs in during the service motion and covers the distance between the baseline and service line very quickly like Federer does. On the flip side even if you guess wrong this serve at least keeps you in the point and if you get it right you can make the attack look foolish.
The same tactic has worked recently against Federer SABR wannabees too.
The drawback to the serve is if the charge does not come then this serve becomes more attackable than a well placed kicker if the returner stays behind the base line. This is because the bounce starts in the middle of the box. As a server you have very little time to make the decision if the player is agile and runs in during the service motion and covers the distance between the baseline and service line very quickly like Federer does. On the flip side even if you guess wrong this serve at least keeps you in the point and if you get it right you can make the attack look foolish.
Levi_Ackerman
Legend
Levi_Ackerman
Legend
That only happened once, and Roger dodged it. He didn't want none of that
. Roger dodger.See here:
Look at the look on Roger's face. LOOOOOOL. Yeah, he didn't look fazed by that. It's just a tennis ball after all.
And who could forget this little gem:
Supertegwyn
Hall of Fame
Djokovic should toss his ball up to hit a second serve, wait for Federer to rush in, and then catch it.
That'll make Federer look silly.
That'll make Federer look silly.
The_18th_Slam
Hall of Fame
And if Federer doesn't charge in on those points, Djokovic would look far more silly.
Supertegwyn
Hall of Fame
I just mean like when you catch a toss that strays from where you intend to throw it and yell "sorry" to the other guy, but this time he does it intentionally to throw off the SABR.
Mr.Lob
G.O.A.T.
You laughed? That's odd. The dude must have been a lightweight... or your real name is Johnny Badass.
The_18th_Slam
Hall of Fame
The thing with SABR is that you don't know he's charged in until you've served. How do you propose Djokovic should find out that Federer is charging in?
Supertegwyn
Hall of Fame
Well Federer starts moving as the ball is tossed up, so just catch the ball the moment you see the movement in the corner of your eye.
Or maybe just catch every single second serve you throw (which will also extend the match, wearing Federer down physically).
The_18th_Slam
Hall of Fame
Federer doesn't move until the opponent is looking up at the ball. There is no way of knowing that Federer is coming in. It isn't called a Sneak Attack for nothing.
Not practical. He'd be tiring himself out, get booed, and warned by the umpire for good measure.
Supertegwyn
Hall of Fame
Just to clarify, I am joking. Djokovic obviously isn't going to start catching all his serves just to prevent a net rush.
He'd get booed off the court (which would just hurt him mentally).
The problem, of course, is that to hit Roger in the head, you will risk a double fault. Roger is quick. I'm pretty sure he can dodge a tennis ball that's hit from the BASELINE when hes only on the service line. That means a double fault. I think that's the difference with hitting someone who's at the net. THey have far less time to dodge the ball and dodging means point lost rather than point won.
