What's the one hole/stain in Djokovic's resume?

Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
If you think about it, compared to every other tier 1 great of the Open Era, he doesn't really have one. Borg never won the USO, Sampras never won the French and was lacklustre on clay in general, Nadal never won the WTF and has a mediocre record indoors(not to mention one or two other things truth be told) and Federer's is obviously his poor H2H against Nadal. With Djokovic however, and especially now he's completed the Career Grand Slam, it's difficult to really pick one since he also has a winning H2H over all his main rivals and his resume as a whole looks so incredibly well balanced. I suppose some of you might say the Olympic gold medal but I'm not sure that's such a big deal given that it's only played once every four years and tennis as a sport has only been part of the event since the late 80s. I guess if I were really pushed to choose something it would be only winning one slam per season between 2012-14 since they were smack bang in the middle of his prime years but even that might be scraping the barrel considering it's a player's overall achievements that matter the most, not one specific time frame.

Thoughts?
 
Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
SLD76 said:
Lack of competition past 2013
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Haha, I knew someone was gonna come out with something like that. ;) Hardly a stain though is it? I mean you can only play who's on the other side of the net and if other players get injured, decline, get old etc that's hardly Djokovic's fault and if anything he should be given credit for still being capable of playing at such a high level that he makes his competition appear so weak in the first place.
 
M

mattosgrant

Banned
I would say the biggest one would be his 2-4 U.S Open finals record. And if you are to point out reaching the finals is still better than not, I mainly agree, but such a great hard court player should have more than 2 U.S Open titles. He still has time to rectify that though.

He arguably should also have more than 1 French title already given the caliber of clay court player he is, but that too he has time to rectify.
 
D

Deleted member 743561

Guest
Agree that the holes are few. I personally do not think that Cincy is utterly insignificant as my belief is that fast-court tennis requires a higher level of tennis ability. And that gets to what I would want for Djok if I were a diehard. At this point, it's a matter of doing it for a few more years... demonstrating mastery over the opposition for a longer period of time.

If he believes it's possible to surpass the biggest marks, he's gonna have to top that 302 weeks at #1. Most major titles is probably out of reach but, in theory, he could do this one. So, as a fan, that would be what I'd want him to target.
 
SLD76

SLD76

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic2011 said:
Haha, I knew someone was gonna come out with something like that. ;) Hardly a stain though is it? I mean you can only play who's on the other side of the net and if other players get injured, decline, get old etc that's hardly Djokovic's fault and if anything he should be given credit for still being capable of playing at such a high level that he makes his competition appear so weak in the first place.
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Its not Djokers.fault, but its still a fact


Djoker is in a position we have probably not ever.seen on the men's side.


The previous generation have been long gone, the final rep in Fed is now well past it.

He out lasted his main rival's , who either declined, or never quite measured up (nadal,.murray, and the also rans like Berdych, monfils, Tsonga, Gasquet, Ferrer etc)

The immediate generation after him is a complete non factor

And the generation after that is still a few years away.
 
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mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Djokovic2011 said:
I don't think so mate, especially when you consider this time two years ago he was only on 6 slams so it's not like anyone expected him to break it anyway.
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Well yes you are right, but right now I think most people expect him to do it. I mean he has set new standards right now, just like Fed in his heyday and when a guy is that dominant, you kinda feel that anything less than absolute supremacy (in this case, breaking the slam record) will be a dissapointment.
 
TupeloDanger

TupeloDanger

Professional
There aren't any holes, really. Nole's career to date just demands contextual understanding.

He's the third truly great player of the post-fast-court era, alongside Rafa and Fed. And he's the first to dominate solo, since the other two mostly had each other to squelch any dreams of hegemony.

He's not regarded as "all that great" by the masses at large in part because he didn't really come into his own until those two waned, and in part because it's inherently less demanding to achieve across all the surfaces now, since a power-baselining grinder game is all that's needed. Historically, that hasn't been the case, since faster courts always demanded a totally different game than slow ones. That made the rare player that triumphed on all surfaces far more impressive (and unlikely).

None of that's Nole's fault. He can only play on the surfaces the tournaments offer. But his accomplishments can't reasonably be compared to any greats who had the bulks of their runs pre-2002. Not saying his aren't equally impressive, just that they literally can't be compared apples-to-apples in any sensible way. After all, SOMEONE is going to be the best player in every era on medium-slow courts. Novak just happens to be that guy in an era when that's the only kind of courts there are at any tournaments of substance. It's a great thing for him, but does little to bolster his case versus other all timers, I fear. Imagine Lendl under these circumstances in the 80's. He'd have had more slams than Steffi.

Fed and Rafa are really the only other guys he can reasonably be held up to for comparison. And so far, it looks like he'll match up pretty well when all's said and done. But he and Pete, Borg, Laver, etc., might as well have been playing different sports for all the similarities their circumstances share.

So again, there's no hole in his resume. He's just applying for a different job.
 
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Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
mattosgrant said:
I would say the biggest one would be his 2-4 U.S Open finals record. And if you are to point out reaching the finals is still better than not, I mainly agree, but such a great hard court player should have more than 2 U.S Open titles. He still has time to rectify that though.

He arguably should also have more than 1 French title already given the caliber of clay court player he is, but that too he has time to rectify.
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Yeah, good catch on his USO finals record. If push came to shove I probably would consider that a stain for a player who will likely go down as the greatest ever HC player. Having said that I think it would've been worse(much worse in fact) had he remained on the one title and that obviously isn't the case now but I do take your point.
 
tennisaddict

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
It is tough to set goals , easier to target them.

Let us see if Novak has got in him to not just eclipse Fed's 17 but set a target of 20 or 21
 
Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
mike danny said:
Well yes you are right, but right now I think most people expect him to do it. I mean he has set new standards right now, just like Fed in his heyday and when a guy is that dominant, you kinda feel that anything less than absolute supremacy (in this case, breaking the slam record) will be a dissapointment.
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Fair enough although I don't think it'd really be considered a "stain" in the true sense of the word. We can agree to disagree on that one. ;)
 
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