tennisplaya
Rookie
When Sodeerling played Gonzo,generally Soderlings flatter forehands looked faster and were penetrating the court more than Gonzo's fast but more loopier, more spinning forehands.
Who's got the Biggest Forehand in Mens Tennis today?
- Thread starter GasquetGOAT
- Start date
World Beater
Hall of Fame
wrong. its better. not bigger.
gulbis and berdych could smack a fh faster but their consistency and regularity is nothing compared to rafael nadal. not to mention that their fhs are not reliable weapons.
nadal is much much better on his fh both offensively and defensively across all surfaces. nadal's spin more than makes up for his lack of penetration on faster courts compared to those two players not to mention his resulting consistency and reliability. berdych and gulbis will have a few hot matches here or there but they cannot match nadal's dependability on this stroke.
just because someone can smack the ball harder does not mean, they have a better stroke.
GasquetGOAT
Hall of Fame
But Ballinbob was not wrong, the topic is about the biggest (powerful, hard, fast and heavy) forehand not best.
Ballinbob
Hall of Fame
Reading comprehension is your friend. No where in my post did I say Gulbis and Berdych had a better forehand did I now? I said "bigger/harder", because that is what this poll is about. Gulbis and Berdych do have BIGGER forehands than Nadal, you can really argue that
stormholloway
Legend
Does heavy include spin? What is big?
Service Ace
Hall of Fame
Where's Roddick on the poll?
THESEXPISTOL
Hall of Fame
Where's Blake?
GasquetGOAT
Hall of Fame
Roddick of 2003 maybe but not Roddick of late. Its a more consistent forehand now but not as big.
GasquetGOAT
Hall of Fame
Exactly! Where is the old Blake? Haven't seen much of him lately haven't we? Nor his big forehand.
vegeta SSJ4
Banned
roddick 2004
That's just the thing though. I don't think there really is such a thing as a "biggest forehand".
The more FITTING way to put it is that there are a small handful of truly nuclear forehands operating in the men's game at any given time.
What determines whose forehand is the "biggest" that day depends primarily on your OPPONENT.
In other words, EVERY player has an ideal wheelzone where they like balls, with a certain amount of pace and spin, that just feels most "comfortable" to them.
Take for example Hewitt. He likes hard flat balls, but high-bouncing spinning balls take him out of his comfort zone...even in his prime.
Guga with his height likes high-bouncing spinning balls, however.
Sampras doesn't like high-bouncing spinning balls, but sometimes Agassi's much vaunted forehand fed right into Sampras' own vaunted running forehand allowing him to unleash it with even more deadly pace when on. Meaning, the flatness and pace of Agassi's forehand only served to feed the flatness and pace of Sampras' own flat forehand when on.
Gonzales has a massive forehand sure, but against a flatter hitter like Soderling who's on it's not going to look as big as it normally does if he's not in a COMFORTABLE position to get it off.
Get it? It's like that with all the players. Some guys shots FEED your strengths and make them look even better, enahnce them in other words, and others act like the perfect anecdote to a deadly snake venom, quickly diffusing the situation before any further destruction or damage can be done on any given day.
As long as there have been the biggest forehands in tennis debates (which I would say is all of the modern era), there have been no biggest. Just biggest against WHOM debates. Ultimately, that's what really counts. The individual style matchups at the money moments of the game, such as the semis of a slam. Those are much more pertinent than any flat and final and definitive assesment of one person has a "bigger" forehand than another...whatever that means. To some, more spin is bigger (Hewitt), against others more angle is bigger (Rios to Agassi), to Guga more spin might be better or angle might be better (Guga to Bruguera...sits right in his westernized, lanky limb strikezone; Guga to Rios/Federer...opens up the court for those ridiculous power angles of him), to someone super tall who struggles against low-bouncing, skidding balls, Korda's flat as a pancake groundstrokes might take the icing off the cake for them, Nadal's always had an achilles heel and that's guys who hit flat and deep like Nalbandian, now Soderling, Blake, Tsonga, even Yhouzny a little bit, etc. Bersategui's forehand gave Courier all kinds of fits, and really took him out of his own forehand game. He said before the French final that the way Berastegui just beat "[he] beat the Marv Haggler out of [me]", that he thought he had a real chance to beat Bruguera in the finals. And yet, Bersategui struggled to get his forehand off the same way against Bruguera, could never really quite dial it in the way he did against Agassi at the Australian or against Arazi ("he's a real CROCODILE"...that's what his forehand was like when on, talk about dangerously snippy, dangerously SNAPPY and short-fused yet willful and mindful at the same time too) or against Courier. The shots just bounced a little too high for him, had just a little too much spin, such that it threw his timing off JUST enough. Still large, but no longer seemingly "like a gun" SNAPPY large like it seemed to Goran or Kafelnikov. Constratingly, Chang handled Berasategui and got around his forehand MUCH better than Courier ever did, despite Chang being the inferior player at their best overall. Agassi couldn't do jack against Rios' forehand, Rios would put him on a string and draw him short and wide, near and far, left and right, and dizzy him. Agassi's groundies are big only when he's effectively grounded and controlling the center of the court. Rios' groundies were the counter to that because they were made for drawing players OFF that island, off that fastaball pitcher's pitching mound, off that perch and into the open sea, open waters. Rios was a guy who DREW you into the jungle, into Vietnam. He blind-sided Agassi and thus Agassi with the heavy artillery couldn't quite get it off, he'd get it off one way, only to find Rios had just black magic'd him and was now sitting in waiting to hit it into the open court the other way, behind your back. Agassi wasn't a *360 PLAYER*...
Guess who? Yup, that's right, Chang was. Chang was the epitome of an effective 360 player, a guy who could change directions on a dime, who was incredibly agile and squirelly in his movement. Playing the angles game against peak Chang was a losing proposition for Rios. You have to BLOW peak Chang off the court like the wolf's tactic against the three little pigs, i.e. Gustaffson's SLEDG-HAMMER tactic against Chang at Wimbledon that worked to such great effect that one year. OR, you have to try and bounce the ball over his head, JUST over his peak strike zone the way Muster and Bruguera would try to do. Rios' groundies however were of an OPTIMUM spin/height/pace ratio. To me, actually, they were very similar types of groundstrokes. Medium pace/spin/height with lots of angling ability.
The difference is that Chang had more utiliatarian uses for them, for the same basic tools, whereas Rios added the artist's touch, the mystery, the lack of synchrosity and precitability that Chang brought to the table. It's like they were two brothers on groundstrokes. Basically similar, but with differences in personality and looseness around the collar. Rios was the Johnny Depp brother, Chang was the fundamentalist Christian "school boy" brother who decided to never veer from the tracks, who would follow the book to a T.
Both have their advantages, both SLANTS on the same BASIC fundamental strokes are necessary, but they take their maximum effect against DIFFERENT *kinds* of players.
Pioline wasn't necessarily a GREAT baseliner in the sense that Bruguera was yet he looked like a much better and more effective baseliner against Guga than Bruguera ever did. Why? Because, Pioline mixed up soft and low, soft and hard, short and deep, high and low, etc. better. He didn't FEED Guga's ideal strike zone, didn't allow him to get into that ballistic pounding groove he's known for. Whenever you let a grade A baseliner find his groove, it's over...whether that be a major spinner, or flat ball hitter, or angler, or someone in between. They can ALL be INCREDIBLY effective when on, all have looked "invicible" when on, but the reality is that every style has a counter style that makes it MUCH more difficult to find that groove on any given day. It can still happen sure, just much less likely and frequently.
Bruguera at his best bounced balls out of Medvedev's strike zone, Medvedev was tall and strong, but his grip and technique were actually flat-ball oriented. Most couldn't get it out of his strike zone, because of that, he had an abnormally wide-range because of that, yet the EXTREME end of the spectrum, and Bruguera could JUST bounce it out if at his best...and when that happened, Medvedev would fall apart like a tall deck of cards.
Guga on the other hand, brought a ferocious heavy power topspin game but too but with a FLATTER, *lower trajectory* component to it. More of a SKIDDING, LASHING topspin than a high-bouncing, rubber gum ball/"super ball" bouncing kind. I think this bounced more comfortably into Medvedev's ideal strike zone. Fairly high-bouncing, but being a tall strong guy, not SO high-bouncing that it's out of his strike zone and uncomfortable for him. Pacey and at you in the blink of an eye, but with the flat, SOLID (i.e. not wiggly), Nalbandian-like hitting platform that his simple classical grips and technique provided, and you have a stroke that can stand up to that pace and even turn it against you devastatingly if on or particularly well-struck.
Note that Malivai Washington a decidedly inferior clay courter, beat Guga on clay in Brazil in DYING heat, in Davis Cup just before Guga went on to win his first French Open. Mal wasn't tall, that's for sure, but he was incredibly strong in the upper body, and I think that was just enough of a counter, and then add his Medvedev like groundie technique, and it's the same kind of recipe for diffusing Kuerten's style of groundie. A well past his clay prime Courier also beat Guga that Davis Cup tie. Guga said he could never play as well as he did against Bruguera in that French final again years later when asked about it, he said he was just a kid back then, and just swung out and didn't think about it, and everything just kept on going in that day like practice and he couldn't believe it...and yet?
You have to ask what allows certain players to "get off" just like in practice and swing unconsciously? Obviously, a ball feed that is more optimum to them...just like with a ball machine. Every player has their own sweetspot of pace and speed that they can dial in if they want to look their most "effective" or impressive to onlookers.
Biggest forehand really just means biggest to WHO.
l_gonzalez
Professional
^^^ wow, a couple of citations here and there and you're half way to a thesis.
ClubHoUno
Banned
He's joking. Edberg's forehand was one of the weaker forehands among top players ever.
Edbergs had a great backhand, volley and kick-serve - his forehand was close to lousy for a top player.
vegeta SSJ4
Banned
tym, nice essay
GasquetGOAT
Hall of Fame
Funny how only 4 people voted for Del Potro at the end of French Open. Anyone having second thoughts now?
dropshot winner
Hall of Fame
I agree.
Blake and Gublis could also be added to that list, but these days their shots hardly land in the court.
GasquetGOAT
Hall of Fame
Exact reason why I didn't include Blake in the poll. Same for Safin, unfortunately.
prosealster
Professional
i go with gonzo
Dont forget Cilic.
darthpwner
Banned
!Tym hasn't posted in a while
SourStraws
Rookie
I would like to thank !Tym for existing
S.S.
S.S.
lagranwilly
New User
I think that Delpo has the biggest...even than gonzo. He has a really much bigger wingspan and can create more racketspeed with less effort.Result, more MPH consistently.
He´s the only one I´ve seen look Fed that furious and lost on court, apart from nadal, but for other reason. He overpowered Fed.
He´s the only one I´ve seen look Fed that furious and lost on court, apart from nadal, but for other reason. He overpowered Fed.
Tennis_Maestro
Banned
Voted Gonzalez although i think its an absolute disgrace how you can list Serena Williams as part of the options and then leave Murray.
lambielspins
Banned
Serena Williams was just for a joke and Murray doesnt even come close to having the biggest or best forehand. There are many guys with better and bigger forehands than him.
Tennis_Maestro
Banned
Well, as long as it was a joke.
I agree, Murray doesn't come near a big forehand, altho he can unleash them with a bit of venom when he chooses to.
big bang
Hall of Fame
lambielspins
Banned
There are often jokes about Serena being more like a man in physique, power, etc....compared to other women, so I am pretty sure her inclusion in the poll was based upon that as a joke. It wasnt exactly meant as a compliment to her, although in other ways it could. It wasnt meant to be literal though, LOL!
powerslave
Rookie
I am surprised Blake does not feature in this poll; he hits them flat and more importantly deep as anyone in the circuit.
Conquistador
Banned
Gonzalez-biggest forehand of all time. Why is Jim Blake not in this poll?
grafselesfan
Banned
I would never pick Blake but nonetheless I would have Cilic and Blake on the poll in place of Monfils (does not consistently hit it hard enough to be on a poll like this) or of course the silly Serena option. Either that or Cilic and an other option in place of Monfils and Serena.
Gonzalez is way overrated to be leading this poll by such a wide margin btw.
Gonzalez is way overrated to be leading this poll by such a wide margin btw.
BorisBeckerFan
Professional
Gonzalez is the biggest but not the best. Del Potro is making quite a case for himslef. I would take Fed's forehand from 05 or Pete's from the mid 90's over any of the biggest hitter types.
lagranwilly
New User
I think Gonzalez is way overrated...he makes a show by hitting every ball the hardest he can with a lot of effort and grunting... but there are bigger guys on tour that can create more pace with the fh and the serve, simply because of the difference in wingspan, they can generate more torque, and as a result more raquet speed. Delpo, Cilic, Soderling, Monfils, Gulbis, etc, all the big guys with nice fh techniques are able to hit harder than gonzalez if they give it all to every ball like gonzalez does...but in any case the question will be answered at next years aus open. They measure the speed of groundstrokes there I think.
smack that
Semi-Pro
federer 10 ch
dropshot winner
Hall of Fame
Evgeny Korolev.
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