Federer was superb in the FO final and played a great match in the SF overall, he was way better than 2012...as was Del Potro BTW who arguably played a better match against Fed at the FO than USO.
So tougher that he lost at least a set every match from R2 onwards and only reached the semis thanks to a Delpo injury, giving people the ilusion that Fed was still prime on clay in 2012.
I made a mistake, I meant RG 11 obviously, that is my bad. I think apart from the final Fed wasn't so great in 2009. If we are comparing Fed to his peak on clay. I think his level in 06,07,08,11 overall was better apart from one fluke great performance versus Soderling and that loss vs Rafa in 2008. But even in 2008, till the final, he was pretty damn solid.
Yes, he was better in 2011 than in 2009 despite not winning the title. But overall he was definitely better in 2009 than in 2011, outside the FO.
Well, the reference was to young guys can't even beat Fed's 2009 level. My point was that yeah even when his 2009 level wasn't his best on clay, guys today couldn't even beat 2009 Fed. Which is sad.
How do you measure solidity?
Ok, so if he didn't play well and had better results, that means his opponents were playing at weaker level?
Yeah, they were using faster balls at the time.
You said Fed's level till the final was higher in RG 2009 than in 2008 even when Fed had better stats, what is the treason for that?
Or, Federer was playing at a higher level in 2008 before the final if we go by the stats.
Ok, according to your naked eye, who was playing at a higher level, Borg or Roddick?
Ok, but you can't really determine the level of play with your eye, can you at least accept that? Because all pros contradict themselves all the time when talking about level of play, so why should we take that over stats?
Ok, let's assume that you can and that you have cracked the code, who among big 3 has the highest peak level of play and on what surface? And who among them had the toughest competition?
Let's hope you're wrong twice more
My assertion earlier is proving very correct:they were indeed not yet playing with so much topspin, angles and power back in the mid 00s on clay, and also the serve was less important then. like Metsman, i also suspect that the top-layer at RG has been made thinner and the subsurface packed harder meanwhile. plus lighter balls are in use now on clay. so the comparison with Costa and also Coria is hard to draw.
i agree with you on Dimitrov's, Delpo's and Edmund's clay prowess.
as for Thiem, he's still coming back from an injury. i can't guess how much he can improve his game in coming years, but for now i have no reason to write him off. not disagreeing on your Coric hype, but in his recent match has Thiem shown that he's just the bigger talent than the hardworking Croatian peasant.
Seems Nadal’s clay competition is looking better by the minute since today.My assertion earlier is proving very correct:
Response to deluded OP @Sudacafan
"Not making it to Rafa:
Thiem has lost to Tsitsi and Rafa
Shapo lost to Tsitsi and no one else so far
Tiafoe only lost to PCB in the finals of Estoril in his first red clay event of the year (Tiafoe deserves a wildcard into Rome, they've already wasted three on Italien chumps.)
Goffin lost to Nadal in Barcelona
The only one we can dump on for losing early is Pouille within the above universe. In conclusion you must be oblivious to the Tsitsipas to have written this tripe."
Now we have Coric barely losing to Thiem who beats Nadal. Shapo and Zverev live on in Madrid.
Don't underestimate Coric who has a great record against Thiem and Nadal.
@Gary Duane and myself having been having statistical orgasms over Thiem in convo for much of 2018. Fractured ankle and getting back on track curbed my enthusiasm. He's just getting started and should roll at RG.
Unbelievably, Thiem and Rafa are in the same quarter in three straight M1000s on clay. 1 in 64 chance of this. If it happens at RG, that is 1 in 256. Shapo on fire and potential incoming R16 Rome for Rafa. @vive le beau jeu ! approved. Jarry is the first ever true clay servebot (well Zedrot in Rome hasn't been broken) and I'd actually love to see him next to Nole in Rome.
Um, NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!@Gary Duane and myself having been having statistical orgasms over Thiem in convo for much of 2018. Fractured ankle and getting back on track curbed my enthusiasm. He's just getting started and should roll at RG.
I don't understand clay court scheduling. IW and Miami gives a rest of one day between many matches, and there is spacing between them. In the clay season the winners play 5 days in a row, with almost no rest between events. This is not good for anyone and is probably a large reason why Nadal gets injured later in the year.
