Wimbledon seedings

Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
Wimbledon: Seeding formula impact on 2015 tournament
by Geoff Nichols

Wimbledon seeding works differently to other major events, as it does not direct follow the ATP Rankings. It accounts for the fact that grass is a significantly different surface to clay and hard courts and is aimed at making the event as fair to the players as possible when it comes to the draw.

The Rankings dictate the direct entry into the event and qualifying as usual, but the 32 seeds are decided by a formula specifically created for Wimbledon each year. It has made for some significant changes for the top seeds in recent years and is important to consider.


•This involves taking their ATP Entry System Position before the tournament begins, adding 100% points earned for all grass court tournaments in the past 12 months and then adding 75% points earned for best grass court tournament in the 12 months before that.​

When looking at how this formula could impact the draw, the best thing to keep an eye out for is the chance of a player moving up or down at seed grouping in the weeks preceding Wimbledon. The groupings come in fours, with 29 to 32, then 25 to 28 and so on.

At the top of the rankings, primarily inside the Top 10, things are spread out enough amongst these groupings to a sufficient amount that the Wimbledon formula won’t create any major changes. In a previous year, both Murray and Federer leapfrogged Wawrinka for the prized to four seedings.

Some interesting situations that we have picked out include the fact that Dimitrov, with his 720 points from making the semis at Wimbledon and 250 points from winning Queens, will overtake Nadal for the 10th seed. As already mentioned, however, Nadal will stay in the 9 to 12 grouping so the draw isn’t affected.

Jerzy Janowicz is an interesting case. Down at 50th in the ATP Rankings, he can count 75% of his 720 points from his 2013 semi final finish. That is a 540 point boost which could launch him into being around the 25th or 26th seed for 2015.

A lot of eyes will be on Nick Kyrgios, especially because of his accomplishments last year. He would ordinarily be 28th seed and face one of the top four in round three, like at the French Open, but his 360 points from last years quarter final should boost him up to the 21 to 24 seeding bracket.

This ought to be a win win for the event, as fans will not want Kyrgios to face one of the big guns too early in the event and face the prospect of losing the Australian or a big name player in the first week. The draw will once again be all important and most will be hoping it is less one sided than in Roland Garros this year.


http://lobandsmash.com/2015/06/10/wimbledon-seeding-formula-impact-on-2015-tournament/
 
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roundiesee

Hall of Fame
Agreed; the peculiarities of Wimbledon seeding is part and parcel of the All England Championships; but really there's no way one can predict how the AELTC will vote; that's part of the charm and controversy of Wimbledon; :)
 

Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
Agreed; the peculiarities of Wimbledon seeding is part and parcel of the All England Championships; but really there's no way one can predict how the AELTC will vote; that's part of the charm and controversy of Wimbledon; :)

Vote? Please elaborate.
 

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
When will we found out the rankings? And i'm curious how far back previous performances count. So you said Janowicz's SF run from 2013 will impact but what about let's say Tomic's QF run in 2011. What's the date?
 

Terenigma

G.O.A.T.
According to the website, the draw will be available on 26th june which is the Friday.

As for speculation, im really curious who is going to get the 4th spot. Top 3 spots are obvious but Berdych has a better record than Wawrinka so im curious which of them is likely to get it. Raonic is the most dangerous QF most will wanna avoid and Nadal's likely 9-12 ranking protects him from meeting one of the Big 4 earlia than the QF i think?
 

Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
When will we found out the rankings? And i'm curious how far back previous performances count. So you said Janowicz's SF run from 2013 will impact but what about let's say Tomic's QF run in 2011. What's the date?

Edit: I changed the wording from the original into what it is, officially.
 
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decrepitude

Rookie
I'm pretty sure you are wrong there. ALL the grass points for the previous 52 weeks are included in the calculation, and then 75% of one (the best) of the year before.

Also it hasn't been mentioned, as far as I can see, that the players in the top 32 in the ATP rankings stay the seeds and the formula is only used to shuffle places within this top 32.

Russel Jones, I don't understand why the post by you before this reply contradicts what you laid out in your opening post?

I don't know if there is any difference in the way they work the Ladies' seedings.
 
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Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
I'm pretty sure you are wrong there. ALL the grass points for the previous 52 weeks are included in the calculation, and then 75% of one (the best) of the year before.

Also it hasn't been mentioned, as far as I can see, that the seeds are the top 32 in the ATP rankings stay the seeds and the formula is only used to shuffle places within this top 32.

I looked it up again (from a British source this time).

I'll simply amend the part in the article that shows the formula. Thanks for pointing it out.

This part, however, disagrees with what you're saying.
•The male player with the highest accumulated total is seeded first and so on, with 32 seeds named in total
 
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Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
Russel Jones, I don't understand why the post by you before this reply contradicts what you laid out in your opening post?

One is a quote from a website, as indicated by the inclusion of an author and a link.

The other was my own words in a comment on the matter.
 

pame

Hall of Fame
The ladies' never used a formula: the committee met and decided if any tweaking was, in their opinion, necessary.

(Men's) The seeds referred to are the 32 seeds at the point when Wimbledon announces them; any further movement outside of those 32 seeds in the weeks immediately preceding the tournament, will not affect the original 32 seeds
 

Mainad

Bionic Poster
To be honest, I really wish the AELTC would just adhere to the world rankings like all the other Slams. I understand the historic reasons behind their particular seeding system but I think it has now become a bit outdated. IMO all Slams should now adhere to the world rankings including Wimbledon!
 

Russeljones

Talk Tennis Guru
To be honest, I really wish the AELTC would just adhere to the world rankings like all the other Slams. I understand the historic reasons behind their particular seeding system but I think it has now become a bit outdated. IMO all Slams should now adhere to the world rankings including Wimbledon!

I would support this if grass enjoyed the same representation as other surfaces. The present system awards those proficient on the surface. It's fair.
 

TheMusicLover

G.O.A.T.
I would support this if grass enjoyed the same representation as other surfaces. The present system awards those proficient on the surface. It's fair.

Pretty much agree on this. One cannot compare the grass season that lasts just over one month (and therewith the results on said specific surface), with the HC and clay that make up for the rest of the season.
It makes perfect sense.
 

Warmaster

Hall of Fame
To be honest, I really wish the AELTC would just adhere to the world rankings like all the other Slams. I understand the historic reasons behind their particular seeding system but I think it has now become a bit outdated. IMO all Slams should now adhere to the world rankings including Wimbledon!

I completely disagree. I think it's really useful to have the seedings tweaked (in an objective way) to represent the surface capability of the players better. In theory the draws are more likely to be balanced.

In fact, I think it would be cool to have unofficial surface rankings for every surface and use those for seedings. Then again, for hardcourt and clay this is already very much reflected in the current rankings so there wouldn't be a lot of changes. It's still useful for grass though as it's underrepresented compared to hardcourt and clay.
 

Inanimate_object

Hall of Fame
I completely disagree. I think it's really useful to have the seedings tweaked (in an objective way) to represent the surface capability of the players better. In theory the draws are more likely to be balanced.

In fact, I think it would be cool to have unofficial surface rankings for every surface and use those for seedings. Then again, for hardcourt and clay this is already very much reflected in the current rankings so there wouldn't be a lot of changes. It's still useful for grass though as it's underrepresented compared to hardcourt and clay.

This sounds good in theory but opens up the seeding process to be "gamed". The whole reason to have a universal ranking system is that it guarantees ones place in the draw based on how well they perform. We already have the problem that because of a difference in ranking points handed out in each tournament, the seeding is already open to game the system. By also adding a layer of complexity in that like surfaces yield more seeding potential for like events, you create something that is much more open to being controlled by players selecting specific events and trying to game their seed rather than arbitrarily play tournaments to boost ranking (which is what the random seed draw is built around).
 

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
To be honest, I really wish the AELTC would just adhere to the world rankings like all the other Slams. I understand the historic reasons behind their particular seeding system but I think it has now become a bit outdated. IMO all Slams should now adhere to the world rankings including Wimbledon!

This is one thing AELTC does correctly. What needs correction is the "Sunday Holiday" tradition. Just pay the neighbors some money one time and shut them out.

It would be ridiculous to have Mahut , Kyrgios, Tomic who are excellent grass players seeded so lowly. You are going to create horrific draws should a top player draw one after the other.
 

stringertom

Bionic Poster
I would support this if grass enjoyed the same representation as other surfaces. The present system awards those proficient on the surface. It's fair.

That would take three MS1000's and delaying Wimby until late July/early August. That would be fine by me, including Newport being moved to a warmup event instead of an afterthought.

Tweaking seeds inside the top 32 is fine.
 

pame

Hall of Fame
This seeding system is alright till they expands grass season making it equal of clay.

Agreed. With full clay/hard court leadups, there's ample time for players to get their ranking up for the clay/hc slams. Not so with the short leadup to the grass slam.
 

pame

Hall of Fame
There is no need of grass court seeding anymore. 3 weeks is enough time for preparation.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe the seeding ever had anything to do with preparation, but with the lack of opportunity to raise one's ranking by the regular means afforded by clay and hard court pre-tourneys. It's not like the 3 weeks even added one single grass master, let alone 3-5
 

batz

G.O.A.T.
They have a committee that meets before the event and reviews all that you posted above but also reviews and decides the final seedlings.

In effect the club does what it wants and seeds who it wants where. Always has - always will..........

You are completely wrong. The seedings for men at Wimbledon are based purely on a formula and have been for years.
 

reaper

Legend
I can't see the need to alter the seedlings away from ATP rankings. Very few players perform distinctly above their ranking these days based in the surface being grass. The last 12 years the champion and runner up were highly ranked on ATP figures, not just previous grass court performance. The correlation of Wimbledon performance to ATP ranking would be as strong as at any slam.
 

batz

G.O.A.T.
I understood that the seeding committee could be used at the discretion of the management committee? The agreement with the ATP which lead to the formula system in place now since 2001???? Could be changed anytime.

My bad if I thought a few yrs ago they actually met and had a tweak in the seedlings after 2001.

I'm not aware of any men's seeding being changed since the introduction of the formula mate.
 

tacou

G.O.A.T.
I would support this if grass enjoyed the same representation as other surfaces. The present system awards those proficient on the surface. It's fair.

Pironkova is a perfect example. The girl has done pretty much zilch her whole career but has a SF and QF at Wibmledon. She'd obviously be enjoying a better career if 3/4 slams were on grass and more than two other tourneys were held on the surface. She deserves a little boost.
 
J

JRAJ1988

Guest
Murray should be dropped down from 3rd to 4th seed for someone else, his implosion/destruction vs Dimitrov at the QF stage doesn't merit a higher seed over Raonic for instance though surely their ranking places play a part.

My Seedlings..

1. Djokovic
2. Federer
3. Raonic
4. Murray
5. Wawrinka
6. Nishikori
7. Dimitrov
8. Cilic
9. Berdych
10. Nadal
 
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