One of the top 4 professional athletes of all time
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Booger
Hall of Fame
Statistically, Bradman blows everyone out of the water, even Gretzky. It's very weird how much he dominated, beyond amazing.
For significance; Ali then Jordan. Federer is becoming something of that for tennis.
For pure athleticism; Phelps, Bolt, Jordan and Ali.
For skill, Federer, Bradman, Laver, golfers come into it, soccer players definitely.
Different criteria.
Overall I would give it to a boxer, requires incredible athleticism, a wide skill-set encompassing fantastic footwork, hand-eye coordination and speed. The mental fortitude and one v one nature is truly the greatest test of an athlete. Greater athleticism than tennis, but not quite as much skill.
Would have to be a heavy-weight, IMO. Ridiculous to throw out light-weight Mayweather candidates - David Ferrer has to compete with Karlovic
For significance; Ali then Jordan. Federer is becoming something of that for tennis.
For pure athleticism; Phelps, Bolt, Jordan and Ali.
For skill, Federer, Bradman, Laver, golfers come into it, soccer players definitely.
Different criteria.
Overall I would give it to a boxer, requires incredible athleticism, a wide skill-set encompassing fantastic footwork, hand-eye coordination and speed. The mental fortitude and one v one nature is truly the greatest test of an athlete. Greater athleticism than tennis, but not quite as much skill.
Would have to be a heavy-weight, IMO. Ridiculous to throw out light-weight Mayweather candidates - David Ferrer has to compete with Karlovic
1982mathew
New User
Muhammad Ali is right there, maybe Pele could make list
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Nashvegas
Guest
Jenner
F
Fedfan34
Guest
Daveed is 4-1 against KarlStatistically, Bradman blows everyone out of the water, even Gretzky. It's very weird how much he dominated, beyond amazing.
For significance; Ali then Jordan. Federer is becoming something of that for tennis.
For pure athleticism; Phelps, Bolt, Jordan and Ali.
For skill, Federer, Bradman, Laver, golfers come into it, soccer players definitely.
Different criteria.
Overall I would give it to a boxer, requires incredible athleticism, a wide skill-set encompassing fantastic footwork, hand-eye coordination and speed. The mental fortitude and one v one nature is truly the greatest test of an athlete. Greater athleticism than tennis, but not quite as much skill.
Would have to be a heavy-weight, IMO. Ridiculous to throw out light-weight Mayweather candidates - David Ferrer has to compete with Karlovic
Brokenstrings
Rookie
It's a biased choice to leave him out. I think Phelps took more PED's than Lance Armstrong.
GuilhermeG
Rookie
For a long time I admired NFL players for their atheticism... That was until I saw a former NFL player trying to run the course on "The Ultimate Beastmaster".
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Fedfan34
Guest
Poor Fedr
Bukmeikara
Legend
Tennis or soccer, both are proffesions which people play in order to support their families. Soccer is both more "cheap" to learn and more rewarding once you make it. This means that pretty much every kid withh social status above "homeless" could pursue it and succeed at a very early age(17-19).
Tennis on the other hand is very demanding in terms of money needed while learning it, pretty much leaving it just for the rich. You know how many kids are out there, gifted both physicaly and mentaly but would never ever consider playing tennis. Federer is incredible, one in ten milions but consider this - If the number was hundred milions, it's far more likely someone to match him in terms of achievements.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Muhammad Ali remains supreme in this category and always shall.
Fed probably top 5 though.
Fed probably top 5 though.
ollinger
G.O.A.T.
A thread like this does a disservice to so many incredible pro athletes in lesser seen sports. For example, anyone who saw legendary pro softball pitcher Eddie Feigner ("The King and his Court" would take on full squad teams with his four man team) could easily put him in the class of greatest: pitched effectively until a stroke at age 75, 9743 wins, 141,517 strikeouts, 930 no hitters, 238 perfect games). And okay, I'll leave Secretariat out of the discussion.
-NN-
G.O.A.T.
I think Jehangir Khan might just have been the fittest athlete ever. Worth a shot, no?
http://www.trondvarlid.com/squash-shooting-for-the-olympics/
Oops wrong thread actually.
http://www.trondvarlid.com/squash-shooting-for-the-olympics/
Oops wrong thread actually.
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Of course it's your biased opinion.
And Payton isn't the top athletes in American football. Off the top of my head, I see Bo Jackson, Randy Moss, Deion Sanders are a greater athletes.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
LeBron is probably a better overall athlete than anyone who has ever played in the NFL. Maybe Shaq/Wilt too. NFL has the highest average athleticism, but the biggest freaks of all time are basketball players because of what they can do at that size. No one would ever play football over basketball if they are good at both, as you saw with Shaq and Bron
-NN-
G.O.A.T.
Yes, I tend to that view. I always spare a thought for decathletes also.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
I personally think LeBron is the best athletic specimen I've ever seen. He makes a guy like Gronk look like a child athletically.
Thundergod
Hall of Fame
As I said before, for just pure athletic ability I would probably say Bolt LeBron as the top 2 and I'm not a Lebron fan by any means. Bolt could probably have broken all the sprint and jumping records besides high jump if he seriously trained for them.
Other than that, people have different definitions of what an athlete is.
Other than that, people have different definitions of what an athlete is.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
I was responding to your claim that "The top 10 000-20000 players in the world are milionaires, which means that they are motivated to reach their potential capacity."
This is nonsense and studies done on motivation rate money as being one of the least motivating factors in the pursuit of excellence/achievement. Notwithstanding most people have chosen, specialised-in and been recognised as a potential talent years before money even enters their thinking.
SinjinCooper
Hall of Fame
Shaq could not have played NFL football if his life depended on it. He would have been broken in half.
C
Chadillac
Guest
Take out Phelps (its swimming) and put in Tom Brady
C
Chadillac
Guest
Did you watch him at wrestlemania, his arms looked like feds left one standing next to mojo rolly
Wilt Chamberlain is a better athlete than Jordan or Lebron. And it's really not even close.
Wilt's physical dimensions and feats put him in a category by himself.
At 28 and 7'1 290 pounds he ran a 4.5 hand timed 40 while in dress slacks and barefeet at a Chiefs tryout (the chiefs had no shoes or pants to fit him.)
His stamina was unequaled, he played over 40 minutes a game for his entire career. One season he sat out the equivalent of 8 minutes, most of which happened when he was thrown out for fighting.
Wilt was a Big 12 high jump champion in college, where did track and field as hobby in his time off from basketball. This despite having very unrefined technique.
And of course, the Wilt is strong stories are nearly endless. Wilt physically overpowered everyone he ever played against. Players like Bob Lanier, who was 6'11 and 285lbs when he faced Wilt, commented on how Wilt moved them around like little coffee cups.
Wilt at 56 years of age still was physically imposing standing next to a young, pre fat Shaq.
I love Roger and Gretzky the others, but if you took all these guys in their physical prime and put them through a battery of physical tests, no one would win and dominate as many categories as Wilt.
Wilt's physical dimensions and feats put him in a category by himself.
At 28 and 7'1 290 pounds he ran a 4.5 hand timed 40 while in dress slacks and barefeet at a Chiefs tryout (the chiefs had no shoes or pants to fit him.)
His stamina was unequaled, he played over 40 minutes a game for his entire career. One season he sat out the equivalent of 8 minutes, most of which happened when he was thrown out for fighting.
Wilt was a Big 12 high jump champion in college, where did track and field as hobby in his time off from basketball. This despite having very unrefined technique.
And of course, the Wilt is strong stories are nearly endless. Wilt physically overpowered everyone he ever played against. Players like Bob Lanier, who was 6'11 and 285lbs when he faced Wilt, commented on how Wilt moved them around like little coffee cups.
Wilt at 56 years of age still was physically imposing standing next to a young, pre fat Shaq.
I love Roger and Gretzky the others, but if you took all these guys in their physical prime and put them through a battery of physical tests, no one would win and dominate as many categories as Wilt.
tenisdecente
Hall of Fame
Messi but not Pele or Maradona? LMAO
A guy who in 1986 led a below average team to a WC and another who won 3 WC and in 1970 past his prime made one of the most incredible performances in a World Cup.
Some people only look at american sports. Huge fail
And I love NFL and loved Jordan's NBA. Puhlease
A guy who in 1986 led a below average team to a WC and another who won 3 WC and in 1970 past his prime made one of the most incredible performances in a World Cup.
Some people only look at american sports. Huge fail
And I love NFL and loved Jordan's NBA. Puhlease
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VexlanderPrime
Guest
Barry cannot possibly be considered on any list due to the obv cheating
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VexlanderPrime
Guest
I'd say Jordan and Fed... then a logjam at 3. Phelps has a solid argument. Soccer should be rep'd.
6august
Hall of Fame
LOL
OK this is a gift for you my fellow posters, I'll give you some basic knowledge about Football - the GOAT sport
1. Football is an ancient sport, its basic form was depicted in Greek - Roman artifacts.
2. Modern form of football was created nearly 200 years ago in the UK.
3. Nowadays, football is the biggest sport worldwide with at least 4 billion followers.
4. Football is followed and played Globally.
5. Football is playable for everyone, in poor areas children play it with bare feet and any round-shape thing.
6. Greatest (arguably) national teams: Brazil (5 World Cups), Italy and Germany (4 WC).
7. Greatest (arguably) clubs (based on the numbers of Champions League tittles - formerly known as the Champions Cup) : Real Madrid, Milan AC, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Liverpool and Ajax Amsterdam.
8. Some ATGs: Maradona - the GOAT, Pele - the co-GOAT, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Platini, Zidane, Ronaldo Lima and Messi...
9. In football, especially at national team level, Countless cases of committing suicide and heart failure after home team losses have been recorded. No one died when Nadal beat Federer at Wimby 08, for sure.
10. Finally, all you should understand here is comparing the best guys of a sport played (underlining here: played, not only watched, but played) by billions of people to Tiger Woods, a guy who dominates a sport actually played by some millions At Most is a joke.
You're welcome. No need to thank me.
OK this is a gift for you my fellow posters, I'll give you some basic knowledge about Football - the GOAT sport
1. Football is an ancient sport, its basic form was depicted in Greek - Roman artifacts.
2. Modern form of football was created nearly 200 years ago in the UK.
3. Nowadays, football is the biggest sport worldwide with at least 4 billion followers.
4. Football is followed and played Globally.
5. Football is playable for everyone, in poor areas children play it with bare feet and any round-shape thing.
6. Greatest (arguably) national teams: Brazil (5 World Cups), Italy and Germany (4 WC).
7. Greatest (arguably) clubs (based on the numbers of Champions League tittles - formerly known as the Champions Cup) : Real Madrid, Milan AC, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Liverpool and Ajax Amsterdam.
8. Some ATGs: Maradona - the GOAT, Pele - the co-GOAT, Di Stefano, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Platini, Zidane, Ronaldo Lima and Messi...
9. In football, especially at national team level, Countless cases of committing suicide and heart failure after home team losses have been recorded. No one died when Nadal beat Federer at Wimby 08, for sure.
10. Finally, all you should understand here is comparing the best guys of a sport played (underlining here: played, not only watched, but played) by billions of people to Tiger Woods, a guy who dominates a sport actually played by some millions At Most is a joke.
You're welcome. No need to thank me.
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abmk
Bionic Poster
learn to read , will you ? I never said that had anything to do with athleticism. I said it had to do with intensity. He couldn't keep up his concentration point in point out like Borg, Nadal or Rosewall aka streaky... quit with the shotmaking excuse for the whole of it. It accounts for only some part of it, not the whole.
he was not intense as these 3 guys were.
As far as athleticism goes, both Nadal and Borg are better movers and have better stamina.
-NN-
G.O.A.T.
Pacing oneself is important, of course. Maybe Laver wasn't as good at it as some others. Nadal seems to be excellent at maintaining a sort of 9 outta 10 intensity level. Maybe Laver tried to go to 10 too much which ended leaving him depleted for periods and going down to like 5. Borg seemed to be able to stick at it with a consistent level of high intensity, like Nadal perhaps. How'd you rate Federer by this sort of thinking?
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Sooner or later you always resort into snark, sarcasm and personal attacks. It never fails. In any event, the value of your opinion is circumscribed by the limitations of your personal knowledge and experience. If you haven't seen them play, it isn't very much.
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Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Laver never paced himself because he didn't have to. In his prime, he was widely considered the best conditioned athlete of any sport. He played at 100% of his effort on every point, every shot, and he never temporized on his shots. As a result, Laver could be a bit streaky. Look at some of his match scores. As anyone who understands the game knows, it goes with the territory when you play the hyper-aggressive game that Laver played.
pc1
G.O.A.T.
Abmk,
I agree. Borg was considered the fastest man in tennis. Arthur Ashe, among others thought Borg was a little faster than Laver although Laver was extremely fast. The comment by Borg that amazed me was that he said he never felt tired on the court.
Would love to see Nadal versus Laver however. I do think Laver would be very explosive with his backhand against Nadal much like Federer has been recently with Nadal. No proof of that of course but Laver with today's racquets with his backhand I think would be fine despite his lesser height attacked on the return often.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Rod Laver, Walter Payton and Michael Jordan. 3 athletes from 3 different sports who were the epitome of fast twitch muscle fiber athletes.
abmk
Bionic Poster
only first sentence was a personal comment, not even an attack.
but then you don't have an answer to the reality that Nadal/Borg were faster/had more stamina than Laver and hence better athletes.
nor for the reality that laver's intensity was less than the likes of Nadal/Borg/Rosewall who were more focused point to point.
I have seen full length matches of Laver ...An objective eye of full length matches >>> biased fanboy ....
So you can keep try to hype Laver falsely, but it will be put down by me and others who know better than you.
abmk
Bionic Poster
blah blah,
you are stuck in the 60s, meanwhile its 2017 and everyone else except you knows that Nadal, Borg are clearly better athletes than Laver.
oh and one more thing, Laver cutting down on some of his aggression and playing more to the %s was the reason why he started to get over the hump vs Rosewall in the pro circuit ...not because he played more and more aggressive or was aggressive 100%
abmk
Bionic Poster
I think both would have a bit of trouble facing each other , adjusting...neither of them played a lefty of that calibre ..nor did they/do they play lefties constantly.
I don't think it would that easy for Laver to be aggressive on the higher bouncing surfaces, the height would come into picture. on lower bouncing surfaces , yes.
abmk
Bionic Poster
I'd say federer is at around 9 on his service games.
around 8.5 on his return games*
9.5 in TBs
and finally
6/10 on break points
(* excluding break points )
abmk
Bionic Poster
Here :
Regarding Laver's loss to Drysdale in USO 68.
"inclined to view his escape as an almost classic example of a champion's grit and resourcefulness, and we expected that Laver, a notoriously slow starter, would gradually come onto his game as the tournament progressed."
https://books.google.com/books?id=lRUoCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT55&lpg=PT55&dq=laver+a+slow+starter&source=bl&ots=WF902FDXYU&sig=rh3r_fOEJ2SgtJtiIWLzbKaZ6f8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj2pezPtIzTAhVZHGMKHQHtDVYQ6AEIITAB#v=onepage&q=laver a slow starter&f=false
yeah, see the words "notorious slow starter"
yeah, very consistent with someone who played 100% of his effort on every point.
oh wait ....oops
Tommy Haas
Hall of Fame
In the real world, having more fast twitch muscles leading to increased athletic abilities is akin to midichlorians in the Star Wars universe.
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Man of steel
Hall of Fame
Americans seem to be naming a bunch of athletes from american sports and act like they mean something to the outside continents. The only american who deserves to be in the top 5 is Jordan. Thats it. Full stop.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
probably because he's too tall, not because he lacked any athleticism. His coordination/quickness at that size and strength is unheard of, no football player certainly approaches it.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
you really believe half that stuff? ok. If Shaq played 40 years ago we'd be hearing tales about how he took one step and dunked from half court or something.
Wilt was a freak athlete too, maybe even moreso than Shaq with his speed and stamina(although I think Shaq in his prime was quite a bit bigger than Wilt in his prime, which makes up for some of the quickness difference). But Wilt was not always the dominant the playoff scorer Shaq was despite his athletic gifts. Partly because I think Shaq was a little more coordinated, had better footwork, and that is absurd given he was about 340 at his peak(00-01). Out of shape 380 pound Shaq was still somehow dominating people in the 02 playoffs. That speaks a lot to his innate athletic ability. And Shaq was ragdolling the likes of Ewing and Hakeem when he wasn't even at his peak.
Anyways, at the end of the day it is still LeBron for me. 6'8" 260 at that strength level with a 43-45 inch vert and guard like movement, coordination, and body control is just too much. I mean people think Westbrook is a freak athlete (he is) but LeBron has a higher vertical, better body control, speed difference is minimal, and strength difference is laughable. LeBron makes freak athletes look ordinary. Wilt wasn't that much heavier in his best years (around 290, and LeBron was probably closer to 270 around 2010) and he still couldn't move like that or jump anywhere near that. They measured LeBron's speed on the Iguodala block and for the 60 feet he sprinted it was faster than an NFL running back who ran a 4.36 40.
tenisdecente
Hall of Fame
Lebron is a great athlete, but it is also the ultimate choker until a great season at the Heat LMAO
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
You engage in personal attacks in almost every post because, as you have conclusively demonstrated for many years, you are a fundamentally bitter, obnoxious, person. Further, your allusions to reality are meritless and uninformed. The reality is that I have seen these players play live, up close, and you have not, and there is nothing you can do to change that reality.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
You don't know what you're talking about. You've never seen them play. You argue only because it is your nature to be obnoxious and argumentative and you misrepresent my words for the sake of being obnoxious and argumentative.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Here :
Regarding Laver's loss to Drysdale in USO 68.
"inclined to view his escape as an almost classic example of a champion's grit and resourcefulness, and we expected that Laver, a notoriously slow starter, would gradually come onto his game as the tournament progressed."
https://books.google.com/books?id=lRUoCwAAQBAJ&pg=PT55&lpg=PT55&dq=laver+a+slow+starter&source=bl&ots=WF902FDXYU&sig=rh3r_fOEJ2SgtJtiIWLzbKaZ6f8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj2pezPtIzTAhVZHGMKHQHtDVYQ6AEIITAB#v=onepage&q=laver a slow starter&f=false
yeah, see the words "notorious slow starter"
yeah, very consistent with someone who played 100% of his effort on every point.
oh wait ....oops
More obnoxious snark and sarcasm. Your conclusion does not follow from your premise. Being a slow starter in a highly skilled sport has nothing to do with athleticism, intensity or effort. If you were an athlete you would know that.
pc1
G.O.A.T.
It would be harder no doubt but I do think his ability to hit the ball so well on rise and that with his strong wrist he could handle the higher bounces better than most. Laver was known for handling kick serves to his backhand well which of course is high bouncing.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
Related: America's dominance of syndicated sports media plays a huge role in the often quite insane overhyping of certain sportspeople.
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