The one thing the AO 09 final lacked to be regarded as the GOAT match

TheMaestro1990

TheMaestro1990

Hall of Fame
Few fantastic matches have had as poor a fifth set like the Nadal vs Federer final at the Australian Open in 2009. And few brilliant matches before it, have had four such amazing sets prior to the fifth. To my recollection, I haven't seen a match holding the same quality during the four first sets, so my question is: if it had a Wimbledon 2008 like final set, or AO13 (Djokovic-Wawrinka), would it be regarded as the greatest match ever played?

I know, it's strictly hypothetical, but still, it's insane how much Federer's serve dropped in that fifth set. Just imagine what would have happened if he would been able to maintain the level prior to that...

 
D

Deleted member 716271

Guest
TheMaestro1990 said:
Few fantastic matches have had as poor a fifth set like the Nadal vs Federer final at the Australian Open in 2009. And few brilliant matches before it, have had four such amazing sets prior to the fifth. To my recollection, I haven't seen a match holding the same quality during the four first sets, so my question is: if it had a Wimbledon 2008 like final set, or AO13 (Djokovic-Wawrinka), would it be regarded as the greatest match ever played?

I know, it's strictly hypothetical, but still, it's insane how much Federer's serve dropped in that fifth set. Just imagine what would have happened if he would been able to maintain the level prior to that...

Click to expand...

Yeah I think with a 5th set that was at least decent, it would be the greatest match ever.
 
ibbi

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
Agreed. If they took the 5th set from their match there this year, then there you would have it. I think the Wimbledon match has the added bonus of being at Wimbledon, and the dramatic impact of the darkness that would have people always picking it, but Australia would be tough to pick against for anyone more objectively inclined.
 
TheAssassin

TheAssassin

Legend
DRII said:
regardless, AO09 > AO17!

no question, no argument.

GOAT AO match = AO09...
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roger-federer-and-marat-safin-1421751386.jpg
 
T

Tiki-Taka

Guest
If it was a Roland Garros final instead of a Rome final, I think Nadal-Coria epic would have had that title.

2009 AO first four sets with 2017 AO fifth set would have had a great case as well.
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
TheAssassin said:
Believe it or not MN, a match doesn't have to feature Nadal in order to be amazing.
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Believe it or not, bc Nadal is in my username doesn't mean i'm thinking about him right now.
I just find that match overrated, agree to disagree, and not take tennis OH SO serious
bathtime.gif
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
DRII said:
regardless, AO09 > AO17!

no question, no argument.

GOAT AO match = AO09...
Click to expand...

Nadal v Verdasco destroys the Fedal final, I am not going to even look at other years. Nadal V Verdasco was five hours and five sets of near perfection. They didn't let up until the end. The final was massively deflated before MP, due to a very substandard fifth set that sucked the energy the four sets prior to it had created. So I have no idea where you come with the statement there is no argument...it wasn't even the best match of the tournament. :)
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
TheMaestro1990 said:
Few fantastic matches have had as poor a fifth set like the Nadal vs Federer final at the Australian Open in 2009. And few brilliant matches before it, have had four such amazing sets prior to the fifth. To my recollection, I haven't seen a match holding the same quality during the four first sets, so my question is: if it had a Wimbledon 2008 like final set, or AO13 (Djokovic-Wawrinka), would it be regarded as the greatest match ever played?

I know, it's strictly hypothetical, but still, it's insane how much Federer's serve dropped in that fifth set. Just imagine what would have happened if he would been able to maintain the level prior to that...

Click to expand...

In regards to this particular match, it was best off the ground they played against each other. Federer's serving was no where near his normal levels. However, it was still highly entertaining, I have seen it a few times, good fun. Perhaps adding the fifth set of the AO 2017 final, and it would be very difficult for anyone to top it. It would probably been the GOAT match, had it had the AO 2017 fifth set.
 
TheAssassin

TheAssassin

Legend
MichaelNadal said:
Believe it or not, bc Nadal is in my username doesn't mean i'm thinking about him right now.
I just find that match overrated, agree to disagree, and not take tennis OH SO serious
bathtime.gif
Click to expand...
Don't blame me, you brought this on yourself with all of your daily Nadal is epic comments and dismissing of his two great rivals' contribution to tennis, not because of your username. ;)

Did you watch the whole thing? If yes then fair enough, agree to disagree.
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
Hitman said:
Nadal v Verdasco destroys the Fedal final, I am not going to even look at other years. Nadal V Verdasco was five hours and five sets of near perfection. They didn't let up until the end. The final was massively deflated before MP, due to a very substandard fifth set that sucked the energy the four sets prior to it had created. So I have no idea where you come with the statement there is no argument...it wasn't even the best match of the tournament. :)
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agreed. It needed a good 5th set to topple nadal-verdasco.

and even with that, I probably would not have put it above fed-safin AO 05 strictly in terms of quality (coz of fed's mediocre serving in 09 final ), but yeah, it may have surpassed AO 05 SF in terms of greatness.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
abmk said:
agreed. It needed a good 5th set to topple nadal-verdasco.

and even with that, I probably would not have put it above fed-safin AO 05 strictly in terms of quality (coz of fed's mediocre serving in 09 final ), but yeah, it may have surpassed AO 05 SF in terms of greatness.
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Exactly, there is difference between quality and greatness. W 07 and W 08 are the perfect examples. From a pure tennis match, W 07 trumps W 08 for sheer quality, but W 08 had the story, the drama, the rain delays and the will they won't they finish this match.

As for the Federer v Safin match, Federer's mistake on match point in the tie breaker may have made that match one to remember for all time, but it cost him the match and imo the title.
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
Hitman said:
Exactly, there is difference between quality and greatness. W 07 and W 08 are the perfect examples. From a pure tennis match, W 07 trumps W 08 for sheer quality, but W 08 had the story, the drama, the rain delays and the will they won't they finish this match.
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yeah.

Hitman said:
As for the Federer v Safin match, Federer's mistake on match point in the tie breaker may have made that match one to remember for all time, but it cost him the match and imo the title.
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while the tweener was a bad choice of shot, I think even if federer had got it back any other way, safin was there at the net covering it.
it'd have needed a special shot from fed or a bad miss from safin for fed to win that point.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
abmk said:
yeah.



while the tweener was a bad choice of shot, I think even if federer had got it back any other way, safin was there at the net covering it.
it'd have needed a special shot from fed or a bad miss from safin for fed to win that point.
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He could have lobbed him, Safin was vulnerable to that shot. Federer had time to do it, and he knew exactly where Safin was standing. Whether it would have worked or not, I don't know, because it never happened, but Federer was in peak form and his vision on court was perfect in that match. So, I would not put it past a peak Federer making a shot, had he thought about it.
 
TheAssassin

TheAssassin

Legend
Hitman said:
This match had an insane fifth set. Some of shot making was just absurd.
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And the greatness of this match became even bigger as Federer continued with his dominance at all non Roland Garros Majors for almost another three years. I always had faith in Marat but a part of me is still amazed how he prevailed in that marathon and that he is the only reason Fed didn't go 12/12 at those three Majors in 2004-07.
MichaelNadal said:
It only bothers you bc you know he is :p

anigif_enhanced-buzz-16878-1372096033-20.gif
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"Have several seats" :p
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
Hitman said:
He could have lobbed him, Safin was vulnerable to that shot. Federer had time to do it, and he knew exactly where Safin was standing. Whether it would have worked or not, I don't know, because it never happened, but Federer was in peak form and his vision on court was perfect in that match. So, I would not put it past a peak Federer making a shot, had he thought about it.
Click to expand...

fair enough.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
TheAssassin said:
And the greatness of this match became even bigger as Federer continued with his dominance at all non Roland Garros Majors for almost another three years. I always had faith in Marat but a part of me is still amazed how he prevailed in that marathon and that he is the only reason Fed didn't go 12/12 at those three Majors in 2004-07.

"Have several seats" :p
Click to expand...

It just showed what level Safin had to go to, to stop Federer, who was rampaging through every single non clay slam. Federer was in peak form, and it is the only time Federer has lost a HC slam during his peak.
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
TheAssassin said:
And the greatness of this match became even bigger as Federer continued with his dominance at all non Roland Garros Majors for almost another three years. I always had faith in Marat but a part of me is still amazed how he prevailed in that marathon and that he is the only reason Fed didn't go 12/12 at those three Majors in 2004-07.

"Have several seats" :p
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:eek: slay :)

431cb9bbd077f7b72642502ed4713739ce58c85a_hq.gif


TheGhostOfAgassi said:
Is this from the Armani campaign?
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I think Hilfiger but could be wrong.
 
DRII

DRII

G.O.A.T.
Hitman said:
Nadal v Verdasco destroys the Fedal final, I am not going to even look at other years. Nadal V Verdasco was five hours and five sets of near perfection. They didn't let up until the end. The final was massively deflated before MP, due to a very substandard fifth set that sucked the energy the four sets prior to it had created. So I have no idea where you come with the statement there is no argument...it wasn't even the best match of the tournament. :)
Click to expand...
don't GOAT matches have to have GOAT players (top players) contending?
uh yes, they do or at least should; otherwise you're opening this discussion to so many meetings its ridiculous...
 
Djokovic2011

Djokovic2011

Bionic Poster
Hitman said:
Nadal v Verdasco destroys the Fedal final, I am not going to even look at other years. Nadal V Verdasco was five hours and five sets of near perfection. They didn't let up until the end. The final was massively deflated before MP, due to a very substandard fifth set that sucked the energy the four sets prior to it had created. So I have no idea where you come with the statement there is no argument...it wasn't even the best match of the tournament. :)
Click to expand...
That Nadal/Verdasco SF was one of those matches that makes you feel grateful to be a fan of such an amazing sport.
 
welcome2petrkordaland

welcome2petrkordaland

Professional
Clearly, the Federer-Nadal rivalry against the background of Fed's perhaps unprecedented talent, fast-growing major count, & grass acumen coupled with the rise of the KOC Nadal and the anomalously bad matchup he presented reached a culminating point at Wimby 08 and the leadup to that matchup offered a possible changing of the guard and everyone knew it. THE MATCH itself at Wimby was highly dramatic--rain delays, an all day affair w/Fed coming back from 2 sets down with nightfall fast approaching, incredible points in both TB's, Nadal tightening up in that TB, etc.-- but to me Aussie 09 had huge ramifications as well-- first time in a hard court and "nonnatural surface" major final, a physical test of gigantic proportions for the most physically-styled player ever coming off the heels of a 6-hour lefty Spanish epic battle of game styles, etc.

Overall, it's hard to pick but that Aussie Open
first 4 sets were sensational and to me that gutsy net approach following a big lefty FH by Rafa at 5-3 in the 3rd set when he knocked off a bh volley in the open court seemed to be the turning pt.

As a Nadal fan, I admit that I've enjoyed watching Fedal matches, but Fed's Aussie Open 2017 performance followed by IW, & Miami has to be extra special to Fedfans in particular, although I not only also have a full appreciation and admiration for Federer and his unbelievable skill set, which I'm sure most tennis fans do too, I will really really miss Fed when he hangs it up.

Anyway, two transcendent major finals that were different but equally important and high level to me, barring that 5th set in Aussie 09.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
DRII said:
don't GOAT matches have to have GOAT players (top players) contending?
uh yes, they do or at least should; otherwise you're opening this discussion to so many meetings its ridiculous...
Click to expand...

Who says GOAT matches should have GOAT players only contending? That is first I have ever seen. No one here has certainly made such an outlandish statement. GOAT matches are about the overall quality of the match. And Verdasco v Nadal completely blows that final out of the water with its end to end sheer brilliance. Know the difference between GOAT player and GOAT match.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Djokovic2011 said:
That Nadal/Verdasco SF was one of those matches that makes you feel grateful to be a fan of such an amazing sport.
Click to expand...

That match is a thing of beauty. It was extreme offense v extreme defense, and for me, Nadal greatest HC match ever. How he stopped THAT Verdasco who hit around 96 winners is beyond me, the level for 5 hours was outstanding. I have seen this match multiple times and never get bored of it.
 
welcome2petrkordaland

welcome2petrkordaland

Professional
Verdasco leading up to that epic semi took down/wore down Murray in 5 a la andre agassi and then did the same to Joe Willy in 4 and I swear Tsonga was about to literally fall down near the end like a stunned boxer! Verdasco had been training in Vegas with Gil Reyes.

I was so so relieved when Tabasco dfed at 4-5 in the 5th!
 
OKUSA

OKUSA

Hall of Fame
safin fed AO 2005 will always be my #1. just because both of those players are a joy to watch when firing on all cylinders. any game safin is zoned is could be one of the greatest matches of all time since there were like 5 in his career
 
malbaker86

malbaker86

Hall of Fame
Hitman said:
Exactly, there is difference between quality and greatness. W 07 and W 08 are the perfect examples. From a pure tennis match, W 07 trumps W 08 for sheer quality, but W 08 had the story, the drama, the rain delays and the will they won't they finish this match.

As for the Federer v Safin match, Federer's mistake on match point in the tie breaker may have made that match one to remember for all time, but it cost him the match and imo the title.
Click to expand...

Yep, 2008 Wimbledon (bret vs british bulldog, Summerslam 92) told a better "STORY" and holds up better Historically throughout the match (only smark wrestling fans will get that analogy) but the 2007 final (Bret vs Bulldog In Your House 96) was just better pure tennis.
 
Mike Sams

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
TheMaestro1990 said:
Few fantastic matches have had as poor a fifth set like the Nadal vs Federer final at the Australian Open in 2009. And few brilliant matches before it, have had four such amazing sets prior to the fifth. To my recollection, I haven't seen a match holding the same quality during the four first sets, so my question is: if it had a Wimbledon 2008 like final set, or AO13 (Djokovic-Wawrinka), would it be regarded as the greatest match ever played?

I know, it's strictly hypothetical, but still, it's insane how much Federer's serve dropped in that fifth set. Just imagine what would have happened if he would been able to maintain the level prior to that...

Click to expand...
Wasn't Federer dealing with back problems during that time? Probably wasn't close to the best version of Federer that night.
 
Mike Sams

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Hitman said:
Nadal v Verdasco destroys the Fedal final, I am not going to even look at other years. Nadal V Verdasco was five hours and five sets of near perfection. They didn't let up until the end. The final was massively deflated before MP, due to a very substandard fifth set that sucked the energy the four sets prior to it had created. So I have no idea where you come with the statement there is no argument...it wasn't even the best match of the tournament. :)
Click to expand...
Nadal vs Djokovic AO final 2012 was great too
 
duaneeo

duaneeo

Legend
Hitman said:
He could have lobbed him, Safin was vulnerable to that shot. Federer had time to do it, and he knew exactly where Safin was standing. Whether it would have worked or not, I don't know, because it never happened, but Federer was in peak form and his vision on court was perfect in that match. So, I would not put it past a peak Federer making a shot, had he thought about it.
Click to expand...

He had a Monfils' moment--going for the headline-making shot rather than the more winning shot.
 
snowwhite

snowwhite

Professional
I agree with those who say GOAT finals are where GOAT players were a key factor.
The thing with 2008 Wimbledon final is that it was between clay GOAT and grass GOAT
and the decisive factor for GOATing that final forever is that because clay GOAT beat grass GOAT on his GOATing surface, and the final score of the fifth set added more and more GOATing to that final. Even if there were other matches with higher qualities of play, they won't have the same aura of that final.
That final would be competed if Federer had won a RG final beating Nadal, but it didn't happen.
 
Bender

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Tiki-Taka said:
If it was a Roland Garros final instead of a Rome final, I think Nadal-Coria epic would have had that title.

2009 AO first four sets with 2017 AO fifth set would have had a great case as well.
Click to expand...
Tongue in cheek, but if it were a RG final, then only Rafa fans here would rate that highly.
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
DRII said:
don't GOAT matches have to have GOAT players (top players) contending?
uh yes, they do or at least should; otherwise you're opening this discussion to so many meetings its ridiculous...
Click to expand...

Doesn't have to be GOAT candidate players but it certainly helps if atleast one of the participants is good enough to be considered a star of the game, otherwise many people would have missed the match. Theoretically, best players are the best because of the consistency in which they bring their top level (and their mental toughness, fitness, other intangibles), lower ranked players could still come close to it those few times in their career but who'll witness that unless they're playing a star of the game?

Depending on the circumstances, even a match between two non-ATG players like Rafter-Goran 2001 Wimbledon final can be very memorable and famous.

It doesn't even have to be a slam match as many presume, I mean this for example:


Is one of the best matches ever for me just thanks to the absolutely sick level of play, the tight score, the atmosphere thanks to the home crowd support for Becker etc.

Of course it can be argued that Becker is a GOAT candidate for indoors tennis (with Sampras being the overall GOAT candidate).
 
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