FreeBird
Legend
I think Djokovic in 5.
Whatsup man?
Good to see you too. Much more active than me. How is life treating you? Still doing some coding job or switched?
Hola.
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I think Djokovic in 5.
Whatsup man?
Good to see you too. Much more active than me. How is life treating you? Still doing some coding job or switched?
alexio
G.O.A.T.
look deeper)) at AO 2017 it was hard court which hurts his body more than playing on grass and on grass game going quicker., and how many hours nadal spent before that final vs fed i guess much more that was able to accumulate bigger fatique than it was when he was playing vs djoko in recent SF at wimby, maybe that's wy rafa looked so fresh in this matchHe had only 1 day of rest at the AO 2017 and also just 1 day of rest at Wimb 2018. I heard that excuse so many times but no word from the same customers after Nadal has just played 5 hours with Djokovic after having played 5 hours with Delpo with only 1 day of rest.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal is a more impressive physical specimen than Federer is, I agree. But even knowing that, he's human and clearly reached his limit after 12 hours of play. You could see he was exhausted in the middle of the fifth set and had reached his end. Advantage, Djokovic. There's no question that Djokovic had more advantages in this match--indoor play and Nadal's 12 hours being the biggest ones. To deny that is ridiculous IMO.
Believe me, if Djokovic happens by some miracle to lose to Anderson in the final, you watch how quickly these same Djokovic fanatics who are claiming Nadal's 12 hours on court made no difference will start posting how Djokovic's SF after five hours and two days is the factor in the result(despite the fact that Giant Anderson had an over six hour SF and is probably worse for wear) Most fans are hypocrites. At the end of the day, all players have to deal with conditions which may favor them or may not favor them and they make a difference but what matters more is who wins. This time Djokovic got the job done. The end.
albertobra
Hall of Fame
So many good posts, Hitman and others excelent analysis.
The only thing I didn't like of the match was that at the come back the next day, the match didn't follow the quality of the night before. I was waiting for a more spectacular match in the last 2 sets. The match kind of lost a bit of intensity and became more tactical. The third set was one of the most incredible I have ever seen, with a TB that was a cherry on the cake.
The only thing I didn't like of the match was that at the come back the next day, the match didn't follow the quality of the night before. I was waiting for a more spectacular match in the last 2 sets. The match kind of lost a bit of intensity and became more tactical. The third set was one of the most incredible I have ever seen, with a TB that was a cherry on the cake.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Not so sure this time. Ever since WIM12, I was sure Fed was going to make another surge at some point and win another major or 2. He won 3 which is an incredible effort at his age. But father time waits for no man. I feel like he got lucky with the draw at the AO this year and still only barely managed to beat Cilic.
This year at Wimbledon, his draw was even easier than the AO. He was fresh from having not played the clay season and showed glimpses of his usual unplayable self on grass. BUT he also showed glimpses that he is not able to keep it going for a full match anymore. His form in Halle was a sign that he was feeling pressure of expectations. Then at WIM, he seemed to have got himself together until KA started playing out of his mind tennis to turn the match around. Once it became a war of attrition, Fed battled on but was always looking like he was going to lose that fifth set.
By the time the US Open starts he'll officially be 37 years old. With Nadal in the form that he's in and Novak making a resurgence as well as Del Potro (let's not forget about him) and KA looming as a threat in majors now too, it's going to take a mighty effort to win majors from now until he retires, and it's only going to get tougher as the months roll on...
Amen. It feels like since he lost to Anderson, people have decided he was playing crap tennis. Nadal and Djokovic played great. Mismatch. But Federer is still capable of playing (and at times this tournament did play) some sublime grass court tennis. What is fading for him is the ability to do it match in and match out, set in and set out.
I think 4 times in 2017-2018 he has had match point and lost. A couple more matches where he's been up a set (in BO3) and lost. Stamina, age, consistency ... but for a given match, he can still come out and play some of the best tennis the tour has to offer.
The way those two were playing, I felt that serving the 5-5 6-6 game was a huge edge. If Nadal had broken Djokovic, Djokovic would have had 1 chance to find every reserve of energy and fight back to even it with a break. Both players had shown those bursts where they were capable of even better than they had shown.
They are pretty even and played pretty even. The reason to install Djokovic as a favorite over Nadal at USO, if they are both healthy, is trends. Djokovic has won the last 7 HC meetings, and he has won 4 of the last 5 non-clay major matchups. The reason to question the value of that is that Nadal is playing better than at any time since 2013.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Not at allThere's a lot of different people destroying computers at your place isn't there
tenisdecente
Hall of Fame
I agree with the tennis part about Nadal - he played not only aggresively, but with good tactics and at a high level at the net. However, it is a conjecture how good he can be next years - he will be 33 years old in 2019, this was a huge chance wasted, seeing that the final is basically a WO. I am not sure how much speed he has lost, in this Wimbledon he looked fast as a muscle car. After 30 years, you cannot take anything for granted, specially for Nadal in grass. Clay, however....
And I have to disagree about being in a great match adding to his legacy - with that premise, I assume AO 2009 adds to Federer legacy, when in fact for me takes from it legacy, and a lot. Same with Wimbledon 2008. I consider IMO even worse losing to Djokovic because he is part of his era - at least Fed is older than Nadal. These things take, not add, in his bid for the GOAT title. Legacy is for me, as you said, the numbers and the titles. At the end, it is a loss, he is not Anderson who would be fine with a SF loss at Wimbledon, he is an ATG trying to achieve the GOAT status. And you are right -. this match wont be forgotten, as well AO 2009 or WB 2008, but I dont think it is good to remember tight matches you lost, specially when you had plenty of chances like yesterday.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Djokvoic raging. Great hold.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
if you think that was Nadal's best tennis, you have little judgement.
Nadal's best means very few free points for his opponent! that didn't happen in his semifinal. his offense and aggressiveness was very good, but he made way too many UEs.
don't forget it!
BlueB
Legend
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
I agree with the tennis part about Nadal - he played not only aggresively, but with good tactics and at a high level at the net. However, it is a conjecture how good he can be next years - he will be 33 years old in 2019, this was a huge chance wasted, seeing that the final is basically a WO. I am not sure how much speed he has lost, in this Wimbledon he looked fast as a muscle car. After 30 years, you cannot take anything for granted, specially for Nadal in grass. Clay, however....
And I have to disagree about being in a great match adding to his legacy - with that premise, I assume AO 2009 adds to Federer legacy, when in fact for me takes from it legacy, and a lot. Same with Wimbledon 2008. I consider IMO even worse losing to Djokovic because he is part of his era - at least Fed is older than Nadal. These things take, not add, in his bid for the GOAT title. Legacy is for me, as you said, the numbers and the titles. At the end, it is a loss, he is not Anderson who would be fine with a SF loss at Wimbledon, he is an ATG trying to achieve the GOAT status. And you are right -. this match wont be forgotten, as well AO 2009 or WB 2008, but I dont think it is good to remember tight matches you lost, specially when you had plenty of chances like yesterday.
If you take W 08 and A 09 in conjunction with AO 17, they do in totality add to the legacy of both Fed and Nadal. I'd add W 07 too to get the full picture. Nadal catching up, passing Fed, beating him again to prove it was no fluke and then Fed rising like a phoenix after all these years to get his revenge. These matches in particular made up a great rivalry albeit one that was one sided for the most part.
tenisdecente
Hall of Fame
We have to agree in disagreement. Legacy wise, take a lot from greatness. Good discussion though
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
Yep still computer programming. Working for the dept of energy for a nuclear sight. Pays the bills. Still tech jobs so I will ride it until the bottom drops out.I think Djokovic in 5.
Whatsup man?
Good to see you too. Much more active than me. How is life treating you? Still doing some coding job or switched?
Hola.
This match, the 5th set in particular, is a good test of two different statistics on who played better.
Before the final break
Djokovic was winning 29% of the points on Nadal's serve
Nadal was winning 28% of the points on Djokovic's serve
Djokovic had gotten to at least 30 on 5 Nadal service games.
Nadal had gotten to at least 30 on only 2 Djokovic service games.
Overall, Djokovic was +5 on pts won
Things that point to Djokovic putting at least as much pressure on Nadal's serve as vice versa (if not a slight edge to Djokovic)
But the most conventional stat was 5 break points for Nadal, 2 for Djokovic. And conventional wisdom says that means Nadal had more chances.
Before the final break
Djokovic was winning 29% of the points on Nadal's serve
Nadal was winning 28% of the points on Djokovic's serve
Djokovic had gotten to at least 30 on 5 Nadal service games.
Nadal had gotten to at least 30 on only 2 Djokovic service games.
Overall, Djokovic was +5 on pts won
Things that point to Djokovic putting at least as much pressure on Nadal's serve as vice versa (if not a slight edge to Djokovic)
But the most conventional stat was 5 break points for Nadal, 2 for Djokovic. And conventional wisdom says that means Nadal had more chances.
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil
Talk Tennis Guru
Oh yes.
BlueB
Legend
Ahahaha, one more to equalize Borg's tally!Oh yes.
Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
abmk
Bionic Poster
Its not Nadal's best tennis (ala at his prime), but it is the best he's capable of playing now.
And it was a high level of tennis from Nadal.
The higher # of UEs are part of ageing+being more aggressive.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
its probably the best he is capable of on grass (specifically with a closed roof), but not on clay or higher bouncing HC.
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil
Talk Tennis Guru
There was a full match on Youtube a couple of days ago but it didn't last long obviously.
A 30 minute highlight video is currently available so you better hurry up if you are interested.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
There was a full match on Youtube a couple of days ago but it didn't last long obviously.
A 30 minute highlight video is currently available so you better hurry up if you are interested.
Damn. I saw someone posted that in the Djokovic news thread. I went to find it but it was gone by then. I wish I could have downloaded it before they deleted it. I'll try to find it the full match and if not I will have to settle for the highlight video.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
the match was in his hands mainly on that tiebreaker and he missed it out thus djoker deserved it more that's all
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
Do you have access to the ESPN app?
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
WHAT
Nadal didn't spend 12 hours in the Del Potro and Djokovic matches. Why are you making things up?
He spent 4:38 hours vs Del Potro, and 5:21 vs Djokovic. That is 10 hours, not 12.
Djokovic spent 2:38 hours vs Nishikori, and 5:21 vs Nadal. That is 8 hours so the difference is 2 hours between them. You are gonna make that to some huge advantage for Djokovic?
AND remember Nadal had easy rides in the first week while Djokovic had to play Edmund already in the 3rd round that took 3 hours. So it evens out in the end.
Djokovic had no physical advantage. The roof was a help but other than that nothing else. Nadal was coming in to Wimbledon with a slam title in his backpack and being world #1 who lost just one match all season prior to the Djoko match. Let's stop making stuff up here.
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NoleFam
Bionic Poster
No I've never used it but I found the match on a torrent site. I'm downloading it now.
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
There was a full match on Youtube a couple of days ago but it didn't last long obviously.
A 30 minute highlight video is currently available so you better hurry up if you are interested.
I have downloaded it.
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil
Talk Tennis Guru
Lucky you.
nolefam_2024
Talk Tennis Guru
Thankful to Djokovic news thread.
tenisdecente
Hall of Fame
Deserve something is highly subjective. If Nadal would have won the fifth, nobody would say it was undeserved for him. Still, my point remains - plenty of chances to take the match, he is the only one to "blame" for that, as well as this takes from its legacy
alexio
G.O.A.T.
nobody disputing on this
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
I agree with your general argument. W08 was one of the most painful moments in my sports-watching life. It doesn't add to Fed's legacy, I'd rather he had lost in a fluke blowout in the 3rd that year or something.
Yes it set the stage for his renaissance as the other guy pointed out, but only because it was a setback, as you correctly call it.
tenisdecente
Hall of Fame
Wimbledon 2008 was painful, but AO 2009 was like throwing a liter of alcohol in the wound - even worse.
I respect all opinions, but I have to disagree that a painful defeat to your main rival adds to your legacy. It takes, not add unfortunately
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
I forgot about AO 09 somewhat, because he got #14 at the French (totally unexpected) and then #15 at Wimbledon and then even made another Final. I have always said that USO 2008-AUS2010 was probably Fed's finest stretch given what he had endured in 2008 with Mono, back, Rafa, decline. Rebounded from that awful Wimbledon loss by making six straight Slam finals and winning 4 of them.
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Oh yes.
#SlayedBull
BlueB
Legend
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
By Matadorović
Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
Complimentary bull wings on the house
tenisdecente
Hall of Fame
Still, that AO 2009 final was awful. I wont deny that was Nadal in his prime, retrieving all the balls threw at him, but it was terrible for Fed's legacy
alexio
G.O.A.T.
yes terrible and it means much bigger than win vs baghdatis
tenisdecente
Hall of Fame
yes terrible and it means much bigger than win vs baghdatis
Oh what we do have here? A weak era ambassador?
I guess winning against Kevin Anderson is better lmao
alexio
G.O.A.T.
nope i'm only wanted to say it's important against which kind of player you're playing..it relates to each player not only fedrafa would have easily won this wimby had he played any other guy than djokovic, fed would have at least 25 slams in his bag if not nadal..etc. it always matters who's your opponent
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Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil
Talk Tennis Guru
Full match?
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Yea I downloaded the full match from a torrent site.
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil
Talk Tennis Guru
Nice! I found a better 30 minute highlight video than the last one but will look for the full thing some time later.
Even Dailymotion isn't reliable anymore. Wimbledon have really removed a lot of good content recently.
