No money in tennis outside of top 200

FightMeAtTheNet · Feb 5, 2019

To the OP:
There may not be much money in tournament winnings of an ATP player, but what about earnings potential of a top 300 tennis coach - or even top 3,000? I'd imagine most players who've earned some points on the tour could do quite well as coaching pros or maybe even a head coach of a solid D1 program - as long as they're willing to put in the work. I certainly know some of the pros who teach at the clubs near me with a bit of coaching experience make quite good money. You can spend a good amount of time on the courts and still make solid money - maybe even one day get onto the business side of things. Plus the networking opportunities I'd imagine are quite good as well.

To the discussion of Top 300 making more money in other sports, I believe the NFL/NBA have players unions that help negotiate on the broader behalf of all players. This includes health insurance, pension, a variety of advisory services, and I believe the NFL has subsidized medical procedure programs for retired players.

I suppose tennis players could try and come up with their own union (I mean Billie Jean King formed the WTA due to compensation discrepancies between men and women), but it would really require a bit of teamwork between the top players and low ranking guys who barely make anything. The fact that tennis is mostly an individual sport also doesn't encourage cooperation between players the way NBA/NFL/MLB. Lastly, there is at least a some amount of national financial support for top young prospects given that a player's country is always displayed during competition, something that is really an afterthought in team-oriented sports.

sureshs · Feb 5, 2019

FightMeAtTheNet said:
To the OP:
There may not be much money in tournament winnings of an ATP player, but what about earnings potential of a top 300 tennis coach - or even top 3,000? I'd imagine most players who've earned some points on the tour could do quite well as coaching pros or maybe even a head coach of a solid D1 program - as long as they're willing to put in the work. I certainly know some of the pros who teach at the clubs near me with a bit of coaching experience make quite good money. You can spend a good amount of time on the courts and still make solid money - maybe even one day get onto the business side of things. Plus the networking opportunities I'd imagine are quite good as well.

True, but that is after they retire. What about when they are playing?

styksnstryngs · Feb 5, 2019

This year's super bowl MVP said he's lived his dream, he knows what he's getting into with CTE, and that he's accepted the risk (source: his autobio relentless). He is white, don't know how much that matters to you guys.

borna coric · Feb 5, 2019

styksnstryngs said:
This year's super bowl MVP said he's lived his dream, he knows what he's getting into with CTE, and that he's accepted the risk (source: his autobio relentless). He is white, don't know how much that matters to you guys.

His name is Julian Elderman. I don't know if you're aware but he was suspended 4 games for using PED. He is going to have organs failure, in addition to CTE. No amount of money is worth it. But hey, it is America and everyone has the right to be stupid.

S&V-not_dead_yet · Feb 5, 2019

mad dog1 said:
The statement was directionally correct.

You know, I tried this on my Statics professor when I mis-calculated how much weight my bridge would hold...it didn't work.

S&V-not_dead_yet · Feb 5, 2019

dman72 said:
They didn't seem factual for what reason?

The phrases "vast majority", "ghetto", and "very poor". The article he linked to, with which I agree, used a lot more conservative language to describe the same issue. Nothing in the article stood out as not credible.

And what level of non-factuality triggered such a challenge where regularly non-factual statements trigger none?

Perhaps it's my recollection of a previous thread of his where he wrote "it isn't cheating unless you get caught". I admit, that biased me.

Wouldn't be an attempt to establish a holier than thou position now, would it? Nah.

I don't see how I'd end up holier if he failed to prove his position or how he'd end up holier if he did; I just asked for proof.

Nostradamus · Feb 5, 2019

SDCHRIS said:
Not to discourage any teens on this forum who hope to be a ATP pro one day but I was looking up a player who won a local tournament in my area and there's no money to be made in tennis unless you are in the top 200. This player is Evan Song. He's been pro for 8 years or so. He's constantly ranked around the 300s and he's made almost nothing in his career. He won a future tournament and received $3K which was his biggest winning of his career. That $3K he made probably doesn't even cover the travel expenses. It crazy to think he spent all his life on the courts and can't make a living. So I guess you do this to follow your dream and not the money.

Only way to fix that is to make all Futures tournaments $100,000 events. and challengers $300,000 events. and ATP tour events minimum of $600,000 events. Not sure how you can achieve this since Futures events don't sell any tickets that is worth anything... So who will Sponsor and put up $100,000 ??

NLBwell · Feb 5, 2019

rogerroger917 said:
I have to say a lot of the NFL football players are from the ghetto. Sad but true.

Why is that sad? Isn't it good that they now have a lot of money?

NLBwell · Feb 5, 2019

Nostradamus said:
Only way to fix that is to make all Futures tournaments $100,000 events. and challengers $300,000 events. and ATP tour events minimum of $600,000 events. Not sure how you can achieve this since Futures events don't sell any tickets that is worth anything... So who will Sponsor and put up $100,000 ??

Yes. The reason the Tour Finals pay the 8 players so much is that these guys bring the money in. Remember, the old pro tour in the barnstorming days often had only 4 guys over one night. Enough people would go to see that so that Jack Kramer could actually make a little bit money even after (almost always) paying the players.
Now it's big business and TV revenue, but it's still the top players who bring the money in.

borna coric · Feb 5, 2019

NLBwell said:
Why is that sad? Isn't it good that they now have a lot of money?

The problem is that they don't know to save the money they earned while playing. 80% of NFL players are broke just three years after they are out of the NFL: https://www.forbes.com/sites/leighs...of-retired-nfl-players-go-broke/#28bc09b978cc

Of that 80%, probably 95% of them are black players. If you read the article carefully, you can see the code words such as:

1- Lack of competent financial planning advice. When you live in the ghetto, there are no financial advice, only crooks and criminals.

2- Supporting a village. Black players have an entourage that they know since childhood and obligated to help out your bros,

3- Divorce. Black players sleep with with a lot of women and create baby mamas. That will quickly drain the bank account,

4- Lack of awareness of how rapidly a career can end. You can't blame them for thinking that way. Each day they survive in the ghetto is a victory in itself,

silentkman · Feb 5, 2019

borna coric said:
I don't think anyone in their right mind, at least in the United States, would dare to do a study like that, without being considered to be racists. You do a study like that and the media and special interest groups will be all over you in a heartbeat.

You have already proven that you are racist. Your past statements say it all.

silentkman · Feb 5, 2019

borna coric said:
The problem is that they don't know to save the money they earned while playing. 80% of NFL players are broke just three years after they are out of the NFL: https://www.forbes.com/sites/leighs...of-retired-nfl-players-go-broke/#28bc09b978cc

Of that 80%, probably 95% of them are black players. If you read the article carefully, you can see the code words such as:

1- Lack of competent financial planning advice. When you live in the ghetto, there are no financial advice, only crooks and criminals.

2- Supporting a village. Black players have an entourage that they know since childhood and obligated to help out your bros,

3- Divorce. Black players sleep with with a lot of women and create baby mamas. That will quickly drain the bank account,

4- Lack of awareness of how rapidly a career can end. You can't blame them for thinking that way. Each day they survive in the ghetto is a victory in itself,

its all good, we have been dealing with your type forever.

dominikk1985 · Feb 5, 2019

There is money outside the top 200 but the costs are insanely high.

A tour level fulltime coach probably makes 100k a year ( this isn't your average local pro) and then you have pay for travel, food, hotel's and physical therapy/massage which you need to play every week.

Only gear gets sponsored at that level unless you are a 17 yo top prospect.

The number 200 will make 200k but all of that gets eaten up as you have to pay taxes too.

silentkman · Feb 5, 2019

borna coric said:
It is because both the MLB and NBA have the revenue sharing system where, if I not mistaken, is pretty 50/50 between the owners and the players. MLB and NBA also get a big share of revenue from sponsorship and TV revenues.

I think in tennis, players only get at most, again if I am not mistaken, 22% of the revenue. That's probably why the 300th ranked player gets nothing

Tennis is a niche sport, You can't compare it to the big four. Unless you are in the Top 100, its a struggle. The USTA said in a study, that it costs about 140K to play on the tour per year. Then you taxes to play. If you are foreigner playing in the State, they take 30% off the top. Tennis is a lonely sport, nobody barely watches USTA, high school and most colleges play. As everyone knows, it's very hard for the white or black americans to get scholarships because they don't work as hard as the foreigners. thats the perception of some college coaches. The 22% comment is ridiculous. at the challenger level, the winner gets roughly 21% of the total purse.

borna coric · Feb 5, 2019

dominikk1985 said:
There is money outside the top 200 but the costs are insanely high.

A tour level fulltime coach probably makes 100k a year ( this isn't your average local pro) and then you have pay for travel, food, hotel's and physical therapy/massage which you need to play every week.

Only gear gets sponsored at that level unless you are a 17 yo top prospect.

The number 200 will make 200k but all of that gets eaten up as you have to pay taxes too.

Monica Puig is currently ranked 56th. She just hired Kauma Murray as her tennis coach. She is also working with another coach Othmane Garma along with a new trainer and hitting partner. How much is it going to cost her for this new support system if you also include travel expense? She is only making like $73K in 2019.

dominikk1985 · Feb 5, 2019

borna coric said:
I hope you are smarter than what you posted in this thread. Football (NFL) is a very dangerous sport. It will give you CTE later in life. About 70% of NFL players is black and probably the vast majority of them come from very poor families and from the ghetto and football is the only way for them to improve upward mobility. No sane people will tell you that 500k/yr is worth it if one can get CTE later on in life.

I live in upscale neighborhood and nobody let their kids play either american football or soccer, knowing that as the kids get older, the collision will become more violent and can cause concussions and potential CTE later in their lives. The kids either play tennis, golf or swimming. These families know that the chance of becoming a tennis pro as a living is even less than winning the lottery. In my neighborhood, people have enough money to pay for their kids college education that they don't even bother with tennis scholarship. They use tennis as a way to get into good colleges and networking in their professional careers.

But do we want a tennis world that only works if parents have money?

The level of play undoubtedly improves if all social classes are having accesss. Sure you can argue atp is strong already but is the pure athletic level really that high outside the top10? We have a few super athletes with great technique dominating and then a few more great athletes without great te
Technique and then a a lot ok athletes with good technique who never beat the top guys so they still win every time.

borna coric · Feb 5, 2019

silentkman said:
Tennis is a niche sport, You can't compare it to the big four. Unless you are in the Top 100, its a struggle. The USTA said in a study, that it costs about 140K to play on the tour per year. Then you taxes to play. If you are foreigner playing in the State, they take 30% off the top. Tennis is a lonely sport, nobody barely watches USTA, high school and most colleges play. As everyone knows, it's very hard for the white or black americans to get scholarships because they don't work as hard as the foreigners. thats the perception of some college coaches. The 22% comment is ridiculous. at the challenger level, the winner gets roughly 21% of the total purse.

Your comments are very uninformed. The USO pays out $53M in prize money and it takes in about $350M. The players get 15% of the payout revenue. I am being generous at 22%: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtba...ennis-tournament-by-the-numbers/#7f11f47273fe

$53 million: Total prize money, the largest in the history of tennis. Money at the other slams: Australian Open ($42 million), French Open ($46 million) and Wimbledon ($45 million).

$350 million: Projected total revenue for the 2018 U.S. Open.

SDCHRIS · Feb 5, 2019

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
It does state your 70% # [68.7%].

It does not state your opinion "probably the vast majority of them come from very poor families and from the ghetto". It did talk about negative socioeconomic differences but your phrasing takes it to an extreme that the article did not.

The conclusion I draw is that you extrapolated a view based on your perceptions. Not that the article didn't raise good points; it did. But it did so in a much less biased way than you.

If you had written your original post referencing this article rather than the above statement, you would have had more credibility.

He

borna coric said:
Monica Puig is currently ranked 56th. She just hired Kauma Murray as her tennis coach. She is also working with another coach Othmane Garma along with a new trainer and hitting partner. How much is it going to cost her for this new support system if you also include travel expense? She is only making like $73K in 2019.

monica Puig earned $3M in her lifetime. SHe reached a high of 27 ranking. She has the game to make it to top 10 so she can total afford an entire team. How can career 200-300 rank player ever compete against that?

Pete Player · Feb 6, 2019

ChaelAZ said:
Welcome to an individual performance based pay sport, and a structure that supports event organizers over athletes.

And not only that. But no other form, but a cup draw. You either win or lose. No ties and the loser walks and winners prosper.

——————————
No more on pain meds - all contributed matter and anti-matter are still subject to disclaimer

sureshs · Feb 6, 2019

borna coric said:
The problem is that they don't know to save the money they earned while playing. 80% of NFL players are broke just three years after they are out of the NFL: https://www.forbes.com/sites/leighs...of-retired-nfl-players-go-broke/#28bc09b978cc

Of that 80%, probably 95% of them are black players. If you read the article carefully, you can see the code words such as:

1- Lack of competent financial planning advice. When you live in the ghetto, there are no financial advice, only crooks and criminals.

LOL when anyone has even a minimum decent amount of money, tons of financial advisers show up. Are these guys living in the ghetto without access to the outside world after making millions?

You are overlooking fundamental human nature. Activities like sports, literature and the arts come from within and are all-consuming. People in these fields think and act differently. That is why they can be successful in these fields. The 9 to 5 slogger with the 401K plan isn't doing anything great.

borna coric · Feb 6, 2019

SDCHRIS said:
Monica Puig earned $3M in her lifetime. SHe reached a high of 27 ranking. She has the game to make it to top 10 so she can total afford an entire team. How can career 200-300 rank player ever compete against that?

That's 3M BEFORE TAX. The tax man will want about 33% of that earning.

she is 25 years old now and turned pro in 2010. After tax, she has 2M. That's about 250k/yr. She pays about 140k/yr in travel, food and hotel accommodation expenses. That will leave her about 90k left. She has to pay for coaching, physio therapist, training. Not a whole lot left. I don't think she can even make it without endorsements money.

Not a great life as it seems on TV.

AlexSV · Feb 6, 2019

Considering the average person earns less than $3 million in their lifetime, Monica is doing fine regardless of the tax man.

borna coric · Feb 6, 2019

AlexSV said:
Considering the average person earns less than $3 million in their lifetime, Monica is doing fine regardless of the tax man.

LOL... I don't know what planet you're living on but the average person does not spend 140K/yr on travel, food and hotel accommodation expenses.

Let say I make 250k/year after tax. I pay $48K/yr on my home mortgage, $12K/yr on food, 10K/year on entertainment and let say another 20K/yr for misc expenses. That's only 90K/yr in expense. I still have 160K left in savings. I also get a 401K saving and a pension. After 15 years of paying for the mortgage, I will own the house outright.

3M is not a lot of money before tax and consider the amount that she spends per year on tennis, coaching, training, she will be poor.

On the other hand, if she already has 3M in the bank by the time she starts playing tennis, she can get 7% return of the investment, she will be able to get 210K/yr in investment income, 160K/yr after tax, then you are talking about a different situation. But that is not the case here.

S&V-not_dead_yet · Feb 6, 2019

borna coric said:
LOL... I don't know what planet you're living on but the average person does not spend 140K/yr on travel, food and hotel accommodation expenses.

Let say I make 250k/year after tax.

The average person also doesn't make $250K/year post-tax.

dominikk1985 · Feb 7, 2019

borna coric said:
LOL... I don't know what planet you're living on but the average person does not spend 140K/yr on travel, food and hotel accommodation expenses.

Let say I make 250k/year after tax. I pay $48K/yr on my home mortgage, $12K/yr on food, 10K/year on entertainment and let say another 20K/yr for misc expenses. That's only 90K/yr in expense. I still have 160K left in savings. I also get a 401K saving and a pension. After 15 years of paying for the mortgage, I will own the house outright.

3M is not a lot of money before tax and consider the amount that she spends per year on tennis, coaching, training, she will be poor.

On the other hand, if she already has 3M in the bank by the time she starts playing tennis, she can get 7% return of the investment, she will be able to get 210K/yr in investment income, 160K/yr after tax, then you are talking about a different situation. But that is not the case here.

The average Person also doesnt travel around the world 35 weeks a year.

LGQ7 · Feb 7, 2019

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
You have data to back up this claim?

It's not a claim. It's common knowledge.

borna coric · Feb 7, 2019

dominikk1985 said:
But do we want a tennis world that only works if parents have money?

The level of play undoubtedly improves if all social classes are having accesss. Sure you can argue atp is strong already but is the pure athletic level really that high outside the top10? We have a few super athletes with great technique dominating and then a few more great athletes without great te
Technique and then a a lot ok athletes with good technique who never beat the top guys so they still win every time.

Sad but that's the reality. Playing tennis is very much like learning how to play piano. It requires a lot of practices and repetitions and a lot of formal training like taking lessons from the professionals. That requires a lot of time and resources. I have a son and a daughter and they both have been playing and taking tennis lessons since they were 5 years old. They are now 17 and 16, respectively. I pay about $400/week for their private lessons, another $150/week for clinics and tournaments expenses. We're talking about $75k/yr expenses here. On top of that, I am paying for 20K/yr for their piano lessons. Fortunately, I use my father in-law country club membership, otherwise, I am out another 20K/yr for club membership.

I don't think average people have 75K/yr laying around so that their kids can play tennis. It is a sad reality but true.

silentkman · Feb 7, 2019

borna coric said:
Your comments are very uninformed. The USO pays out $53M in prize money and it takes in about $350M. The players get 15% of the payout revenue. I am being generous at 22%: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtba...ennis-tournament-by-the-numbers/#7f11f47273fe

$53 million: Total prize money, the largest in the history of tennis. Money at the other slams: Australian Open ($42 million), French Open ($46 million) and Wimbledon ($45 million).

$350 million: Projected total revenue for the 2018 U.S. Open.

What exactly is payout revenue?

silentkman · Feb 7, 2019

borna coric said:
Sad but that's the reality. Playing tennis is very much like learning how to play piano. It requires a lot of practices and repetitions and a lot of formal training like taking lessons from the professionals. That requires a lot of time and resources. I have a son and a daughter and they both have been playing and taking tennis lessons since they were 5 years old. They are now 17 and 16, respectively. I pay about $400/week for their private lessons, another $150/week for clinics and tournaments expenses. We're talking about $75k/yr expenses here. On top of that, I am paying for 20K/yr for their piano lessons. Fortunately, I use my father in-law country club membership, otherwise, I am out another 20K/yr for club membership.

I don't think average people have 75K/yr laying around so that their kids can play tennis. It is a sad reality but true.

C'mon man you are flaunting your money. The 20K membership is just ridiculous. what are the odds that will even get a college scholarship for tennis, probably low? Are 5 star or blue chip recruits? The odds of making it as a pro are close to zero. I think tennis more accessible than it was when i was a kid. Tennis is simply not cost efficient.

borna coric · Feb 7, 2019

silentkman said:
C'mon man you are flaunting your money. The 20K membership is just ridiculous. what are the odds that will even get a college scholarship for tennis, probably low? Are 5 star or blue chip recruits? The odds of making it as a pro are close to zero. I think tennis more accessible than it was when i was a kid. Tennis is simply not cost efficient.

I am not flaunting my money. I am just telling what it is about my situation. I have no expectations of tennis scholarship nor I want them to turn pro. I've saved enough money in 529 college savings for my kids. If they need more, my father in-law can take care of the rest.

About the 20K membership. That's just the yearly due. There is a one-time initiation fee of 200K. Yes, the cost is ridiculous but to some people like my father in-law, it is not a big deal to him. That's how much it cost at the Congressional Country Club in Bethesda Maryland and there is also a long waiting list for people wanting to get in.

sureshs · Feb 7, 2019

borna coric said:
I am not flaunting my money. I am just telling what it is about my situation. I have no expectations of tennis scholarship nor I want them to turn pro. I've saved enough money in 529 college savings for my kids. If they need more, my father in-law can take care of the rest.

About the 20K membership. That's just the yearly due. There is a one-time initiation fee of 200K. Yes, the cost is ridiculous but to some people like my father in-law, it is not a big deal to him. That's how much it cost at the Congressional Country Club in Bethesda Maryland and there is also a long waiting list for people wanting to get in.

LOL that is a good fil you have. Mine just asks me and my wife for money.

dominikk1985 · Feb 7, 2019

borna coric said:
Sad but that's the reality. Playing tennis is very much like learning how to play piano. It requires a lot of practices and repetitions and a lot of formal training like taking lessons from the professionals. That requires a lot of time and resources. I have a son and a daughter and they both have been playing and taking tennis lessons since they were 5 years old. They are now 17 and 16, respectively. I pay about $400/week for their private lessons, another $150/week for clinics and tournaments expenses. We're talking about $75k/yr expenses here. On top of that, I am paying for 20K/yr for their piano lessons. Fortunately, I use my father in-law country club membership, otherwise, I am out another 20K/yr for club membership.

I don't think average people have 75K/yr laying around so that their kids can play tennis. It is a sad reality but true.

Yes but still to reach the very top you need off the charts athleticism.

A good tennis player who is a mediocre athlet beats a great athlete any day but to make top100 you need to be a great athlete.

It is like a diamond cutter. You need to cut the diamond correctly but not any stone can be cut into a brilliant diamond. If more stones can be cut correctly more brilliant diamonds will appear.

In tennis not whether you are a diamond decides whether you are cut but if you can afford the cutting.

In European soccer this is different, everyone starts at a rec club in a small town or bigger town and after a couple years the best talents get selected by academies of the big clubs and are then trained at a high level.

I realise of course that financial dynamics in soccer are very different.

Harry_Wild · Feb 7, 2019

SDCHRIS said:
Not to discourage any teens on this forum who hope to be a ATP pro one day but I was looking up a player who won a local tournament in my area and there's no money to be made in tennis unless you are in the top 200. This player is Evan Song. He's been pro for 8 years or so. He's constantly ranked around the 300s and he's made almost nothing in his career. He won a future tournament and received $3K which was his biggest winning of his career. That $3K he made probably doesn't even cover the travel expenses. It crazy to think he spent all his life on the courts and can't make a living. So I guess you do this to follow your dream and not the money.

The ITF this year is trying to eliminate the roughly 12K-14K tour players from the circuit so that only around 750 from the ATP and WTA end up getting true touring pro status, that is claiming they are on the tour and making their full time living as professional tennis players.

The actual players that can make a living in tennis these days are the players that have a ranking of 150 and above.

coupergear · Feb 8, 2019

Harry_Wild said:
The ITF this year is trying to eliminate the roughly 12K-14K tour players from the circuit so that only around 750 from the ATP and WTA end up getting true touring pro status, that is claiming they are on the tour and making their full time living as professional tennis players.

The actual players that can make a living in tennis these days are the players that have a ranking of 150 and above.

Yes this is it. It's foolish to have people call themselves pros when they are like 2,100 in the world. tennis is still a very niche sport in the grand scheme of things with the major tournaments really attracting most of the crowds and scant participation in other tournaments. So 750 pros making money off the sport seems about right given the audience. Watch some of the early rounds in even the major tournaments and the stands are empty.

Pete Player · Feb 9, 2019

In a team sport the financial is way different. You can make a team and earn decent annual pay at many levels, cause the club franchise takes care of the travel budget after certain level.

However in junior ranks, say in ice hockey the seasonal costs gets crazy high in the top teams and are not necessarily covered by the club, but parents pockets. Figure skating might be even more costly per athlete very early. You cannot have tens of people on the ice practicing at times and the ice time costs the same as for a full hockey team.

Don’t know of the average pay in the US, but here it is around 2’000 to 3’000 €, a third is right off to the taxes leaving net earning of about 1’900 a month. Putting 400 to 700 of that to kids hobbies is just impossible, except for the wealthy.

If you don’t get sponsored early, there is really no chance to practice enough to make it to the top and earn it back, unless you are very talented both skills- and athleticswise and determined hard working person.

Making money by a sport chances are better on team sports, cause a team needs all kinds of players, while in individual sports the goal is same for everyone.

Considering how much money is spent on college tennis and all the academies in the US, it is sort of odd, that at the top in men there are so few of them. The first American is now holding 9th spot on ATP rankings and only eleven players within the TOP-100.

Anyway, till certain age and there on it is really a matter of the wealth of the parents, who has the conditions to take the next step. And I think it cannot be driven by being obliged to execute, cause mom and dad has put so and so much money in it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pete Player · Feb 9, 2019

coupergear said:
Yes this is it. It's foolish to have people call themselves pros when they are like 2,100 in the world. tennis is still a very niche sport in the grand scheme of things with the major tournaments really attracting most of the crowds and scant participation in other tournaments. So 750 pros making money off the sport seems about right given the audience. Watch some of the early rounds in even the major tournaments and the stands are empty.

Even more so with the fitness profession. Most have a sport related franchise, selling drugs and supplements spending their time at the gym. And the prize money is peanuts. Still they call themselves pros in the sport.

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Dondon · Feb 9, 2019

Nostradamus said:
Only way to fix that is to make all Futures tournaments $100,000 events. and challengers $300,000 events. and ATP tour events minimum of $600,000 events. Not sure how you can achieve this since Futures events don't sell any tickets that is worth anything... So who will Sponsor and put up $100,000 ??

Change it to football league type of tennis
Fools will turn up

ChaelAZ · Feb 11, 2019

The joke for it all is, you have all the ITF Futures, Challengers, or pro events, and the prize money for the whole season of one of those, over 90 events, is just under $3 million - less than the GS payout for ONE singles winner. That's $3million to split for tournament finalists and runner-ups in both singles and doubles.

SDCHRIS · Feb 11, 2019

ChaelAZ said:
The joke for it all is, you have all the ITF Futures, Challengers, or pro events, and the prize money for the whole season of one of those, over 90 events, is just under $3 million - less than the GS payout for ONE singles winner. That's $3million to split for tournament finalists and runner-ups in both singles and doubles.

So what's the point in having all these events? Do the organizers make money from these events? If so then I think it's a scam because they are basically making a business off of people trying to pursue a dream. Just stick to local open tournaments. If you think you are good enough then try to qualify for one of the bigger tournaments. For example the BNP Paribas open in Indian Wells just had their pre-qualifier tournament. You pay $80 to play in the pre-qualifier and if you win you get a entry to the qualifying event.

Harry_Wild · Feb 11, 2019

SDCHRIS said:
So what's the point in having all these events? Do the organizers make money from these events? If so then I think it's a scam because they are basically making a business off of people trying to pursue a dream. Just stick to local open tournaments. If you think you are good enough then try to qualify for one of the bigger tournaments. For example the BNP Paribas open in Indian Wells just had their pre-qualifier tournament. You pay $80 to play in the pre-qualifier and if you win you get a entry to the qualifying event.

It is the farm club of tennis. The ITF has done a name change and calling it the Transition Tour!

https://www.itftennis.com/news/278962.aspx

movdqa · Feb 12, 2019

If you think tennis is bad, you should see chess. One of the top US players goes to tournaments but he makes some of his money from streaming on Twitch too. I think that subscribers pay $5/month for his channels. He's got about 2,500 - 3,000 subscribers and a ton more followers - a lot of people watch him streaming and many send him donations too.

The number one player in the world, Magnus Carlson, has a net worth of $8 million. Pretty small by tennis standards. It's a tough life as a pro traveling all the time with financial rewards smaller than what you see in the tennis world.

SystemicAnomaly · Feb 12, 2019

@SDCHRIS, good thread subject but why is this in the Tips/Instruction forum?

sureshs said:
The 300th best decathlon athlete (No. 1 is considered the best athlete on land) and the 300th best 50 meter freestyle swimmer (No 1 is considered the best athlete in water) also do not earn much at all.

Are these athletes trying to earn money as touring pros?

How about comparing #300 on the ATP or WTA tours to the #300 guys playing basketball, baseball, American football, and futbol/soccer? All these non-tennis pro players are millionaires. For that matter, #600 in these sports are probably living very comfortable as well.
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SystemicAnomaly · Feb 12, 2019

rogerroger917 said:
Why are most NFL quarterbacks white? I say racism.

You can say it. But does that make it so? The QB position takes a different skill set than other NFL positions.

QBs like Doug Williams, Warren Moon, Russel Wilson, Cam Newton, Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair, Randall Cunningham, & Colin Kaepernick are a rare breed to be sure. But can the predominance of non-blacks in the QB position be considered racism? Other than the NFL apparently ostracizing of the controversial, Colin Kaepernick, can you cite other examples of racism?
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time_fly · Feb 12, 2019

It’s like this in all sports. Team sports require more athletes and may pay the top 300-500 players decently rather than just the top 100, but once you are below the level where you are on TV, you make peanuts.

SystemicAnomaly · Feb 12, 2019

time_fly said:
It’s like this in all sports. Team sports require more athletes and may pay the top 300-500 players decently rather than just the top 100, but once you are below the level where you are on TV, you make peanuts.

Aren't sports teams usually paying travel and lodging expenses? Even if you are not a marquee (TV) player? Tennis players are usually paying their own travel/lodging expenses. So that amount of money that #200 makes on the ATP/WTA tour doesn't go as far if all this is true.

borna coric · Feb 12, 2019

SystemicAnomaly said:
You can say it. But does that make it so? The QB position takes a different skill set than other NFL positions.
QBs like Doug Williams, Warren Moon, Russel Wilson, Cam Newton, Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair, Randall Cunningham, & Colin Kaepernick are a rare breed to be sure. But can the predominance of non-blacks in the QB position be considered racism? Other than the NFL apparently ostracizing of the controversial, Colin Kaepernick, can you cite other examples of racism?.

- Yes, because the WHITE NFL owners do not think black players have the intelligence to play the QB positions.

- Yes, Robert Kraft and Tom Brady are very good friends of Donald Trump. If Trump does not practice blatant racism, I don't know what is.

- There are 32 head coaching jobs in the NFL. Currently there are only 2 black head coaches in the NFL while the percentage of black players in the NFL 70%. Does that look racism to you?

For example, from Trump's mouth:

- Donald Trump blasts NFL anthem protesters: 'Get that son of a ***** off the field ---> Well, majorities of NFL players who protest are Black
- Donald Trump calls Senator Elizabeth Warren "Pocahontas". ---> If that is not racism, I don't know what is

Both the governor and Attorney General in the state of Virginia admitted of wearing black race. Isn't that racist?

@SystemicAnomaly; Are you a white person? If you're a white person, you have an extreme low probability of getting shot or getting stopped by the police while driving your car through a wealthy neighborhood. Many of my coworkers get stopped multiple times for no reasons by the police when they drove to my house for parties. Most of them drive Mercedes or BMW. The police probably think that the cars were stolen. Even my nephew, who is adopted and black, got stopped by the police while walking in his own wealthy neighborhood because someone in the report a break-in. First thing that comes to the cop mind is "must be a black guy".

Racism today takes on a different form than in the 1960's. Jim Crow is still alive and well in the US.

andreh · Feb 12, 2019

sureshs said:
Universal Basic Income combined with Universal Healthcare will fix these problems. Then people can pursue their passions. The world will greatly improve as people will work only if they want to. All mundane work will be handled by robots.

I personally can't wait for a robot to take my job!

SystemicAnomaly · Feb 12, 2019

borna coric said:
- Yes, because the WHITE NFL owners do not think black players have the intelligence to play the QB positions.

- Yes, Robert Kraft and Tom Brady are very good friends of Donald Trump. If Trump does not practice blatant racism, I don't know what is.

- There are 32 head coaching jobs in the NFL. Currently there are only 2 black head coaches in the NFL while the percentage of black players in the NFL 70%. Does that look racism to you?

For example, from Trump's mouth:

- Donald Trump blasts NFL anthem protesters: 'Get that son of a ***** off the field ---> Well, majorities of NFL players who protest are Black
- Donald Trump calls Senator Elizabeth Warren "Pocahontas". ---> If that is not racism, I don't know what is

Both the governor and Attorney General in the state of Virginia admitted of wearing black race. Isn't that racist?

@SystemicAnomaly; Are you a white person? If you're a white person, you have an extreme low probability of getting shot or getting stopped by the police while driving your car through a wealthy neighborhood. Many of my coworkers get stopped multiple times for no reasons by the police when they drove to my house for parties. Most of them drive Mercedes or BMW. The police probably think that the cars were stolen. Even my nephew, who is adopted and black, got stopped by the police while walking in his own wealthy neighborhood because someone in the report a break-in. First thing that comes to the cop mind is "must be a black guy".

Racism today takes on a different form than in the 1960's. Jim Crow is still alive and well in the US.

That's quite a rant you have going there. I am not saying that racism does not exist -- particularly in the NFL or the White House. The lack of black head coaches in the NFL might very well be due, in part (maybe even, in large part), to racist practices. But not so sure that this is the primary reason for the lack of black QBs in the NFL.It doesn't make economic or business sense to pick substandard white QB over a more qualified black QB. Football players prove themselves in high school and college. I would assume that outstanding black QBs in HS & college would be very attractive draft choices for NFL teams. Should we really believe that they would chose to pick an inferior white QB instead? Perhaps part of the problem is with the school coaches.
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borna coric · Feb 12, 2019

SystemicAnomaly said:
That's quite a rant you have going there. I am not saying that racism does not exist -- particularly in the NFL or the White House. The lack of black head coaches in the NFL might very well be due, in part (maybe even, in large part), to racist practices. But not so sure that this is the primary reason for the lack of black QBs in the NFL.It doesn't make economic or business sense to pick substandard white QB over a more qualified black QB. Football players prove themselves in high school and college. I would assume that outstanding black QBs in HS & college would be very attractive draft choices for NFL teams. Should we really believe that they would chose to pick an inferior white QB instead? Perhaps part of the problem is with the school coaches.
.

Because the NFL owners are white and racist. Quoted from Lebron James, “In the NFL they got a bunch of old white men owning teams and they got that slave mentality,” James said on “The Shop.” “And it’s like, ‘This is my team. You do what the f–k I tell y’all to do. Or we get rid of y’all.’

Because the QB position is the face of the franchise. NFL owners do not want a black QB as the face of the football team.

Of course, it is hard for a white person like yourself to understand. You should listen to song written by Bruce Hornsby; the way it is:

Standing in line, marking time
Waiting for the welfare dime
'Cause they can't buy a job
The man in the silk suit hurries by
As he catches the poor old lady's eyes
Just for fun he says, "Get a job."
That's just the way it is
Some things will never change
That's just the way it is
Ah, but don't you believe them
Said hey, little boy, you can't go where the others go
'Cause you don't look like they do
Said hey, old man, how can you stand to think that way?
Did you really think about it before you made the rules?
He said, son
That's just the way it is
Some things will never change
That's just the way it is
Ah, but don't you believe them
Yeah
That's just the way it is
That's just the way it is
Well, they passed a law in '64 ---> The Civil Rights ACT was passed in 1964
To give those who ain't got a little more
But it only goes so far
Because the law don't change another's mind
When all it sees at the hiring time
Is the line on the color bar, no
That's just the way it is
Some things will never change
That's just the way it is
That's just the way it is, it is, it is, it is

Hmgraphite1 · Feb 12, 2019

andreh said:
I personally can't wait for a robot to take my job!

I agree, more tennis awaits me, hope I save enough$$

No money in tennis outside of top 200

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