tennis tom
Legend
As soon as there's another person on the court with you, it changes the dynamics of the practice session.
^^This is BS.
@TimeToPlaySets is correct. Serious adult players are fun to teach. I coached for about 15 years and loved working with anyone as long as they came out on court committed and wanting to get as good as possible.
I never had an adult player that wasn't motivated. Contrary to what sureshs said above, adults can easily improve. I've taken guys from 3.5 to 5.0 and it's really fun to see.
I second @time_flyMaybe also a lot of them are jaded by adult students who take lessons but never practice so they never improve but blame the coach..
I do appreciate that, but it is definitely frustrating as an adult when you come up against a coach who wants to tinker with servicable strokes because of the latest craze.If you want your pro to work with you, you have to work. So that means get in shape, practice, and above all, do what they say. Deep down, any decent instructor finds it rewarding when a student improves.
I have seen so so so many adults just refuse to do something because they think their way is better. Like, they insist on volleying or serving with the wrong grip. You do that, and the pro isn’t going to take you seriously.
Honestly I don't get this? Why should a coach care, he's still making money.If you want your pro to work with you, you have to work. So that means get in shape, practice, and above all, do what they say. Deep down, any decent instructor finds it rewarding when a student improves.
I have seen so so so many adults just refuse to do something because they think their way is better. Like, they insist on volleying or serving with the wrong grip. You do that, and the pro isn’t going to take you seriously.
Interesting experience. There has to be a middle ground where the coach respects what you want to improve, and what you don't want to change. Not everyone is trying to become a pro, some just want to learn and practice.I do appreciate that, but it is definitely frustrating as an adult when you come up against a coach who wants to tinker with servicable strokes because of the latest craze.
Case in point - about 10 years ago, I had a coach convert my perfectly acceptable, mostly neutral-stance forehand into an open-stance windscreen wiper. When I came back to tennis after about 6 years off, and was promptly informed by my new coach that this was an Americanised fad that has largely gone by the wayside. I'm now back to hitting a forehand that is much closer to the shot I started with.
I think it's a really underrated quality in a coach to be able to effectively tune strokes and gameplay that don't match up with modern best-practice (and sometimes even predate the coach's birth). It's a very different process than coaching kids, who are easily adaptable (and often a blank slate anyway).
Some coaches see that as a challenge and a nice change of pace. Others see it as an annoyance.
I think the main thing is both parties being realistic about what the benefits of a particular coaching approach is. To take an extreme example - Stefan Edberg's probably not going to improve as a player by trying to change his continental forehand at this stage in life.Interesting experience. There has to be a middle ground where the coach respects what you want to improve, and what you don't want to change. Not everyone is trying to become a pro, some just want to learn and practice.
Yah, same experience recently, was on vacation and just wanted to do a hit so hired a pro through the resort's club for a half hour hit-up. He wanted to remake all my strokes a la' the "moderne game"--i.e; Rafa's windshield wiper bh --my strokes are like Fed's--but not my mobility. I went along with it just for grins, like learning a 2hbh. They all feel like ****--Rafa can hit his ww bh because he practiced it for eight hours a day--if a rec player tries to emulate him, good luck. Be wary of young pros who want to remake your game to resemble the "moderne" one--ka ching, ka ching--especially if they're young and need to build up a client base and looking for a career in finance after graduation.it is definitely frustrating as an adult when you come up against a coach who wants to tinker with serviceable strokes because of the latest craze.
Yes. you only make a name for yourself coaching a junior to a national level. Sadly, there's no glory or status in getting a middle-aged 3.5 player to 4.5.Maybe it's just the private lessons I've had but I always get the impression coaches really only want to coach juniors. Is this the case? Seems tough to find a coach that is invested in improving adult rec play.
Maybe it's just the private lessons I've had but I always get the impression coaches really only want to coach juniors. Is this the case? Seems tough to find a coach that is invested in improving adult rec play.
Mmmmm, I can't get on board.Practice makes permanent. Doesn’t make you better.
If I work on my serve in a practice match, how is that worse than hitting a basket of serves on your own? I’m still working on things, it’s just someone hits it back.
I suppose some of the coaches here can weigh in, as I only know what my coach has said.Honestly I don't get this? Why should a coach care, he's still making money.
I've consulted people professionally, knowing that they weren't going to listen to a word I said. If they are willing to pay, it's not my problem.
I guess that makes sense. Personally I'm not a big fan of the "do what you love" mantra, and all I want out of a job is a paycheck. I seek fulfillment elsewhere. But you don't want to hate it. And I guess the kind of person who chooses a career as a coach is likely to have a different perspective.I suppose some of the coaches here can weigh in, as I only know what my coach has said.
He seems more energized and engaged when he has students who are willing to work hard, and he really seemed to like it when the ladies in our private clinic got better. It meant he got to teach more interesting drills and formations and shots.
And, well . . . don't we all need to be getting something out of our jobs besides a paycheck?
I suppose some of the coaches here can weigh in, as I only know what my coach has said.
The better and more established you get as a coach the more you can pick and choose your lessons/hours. If you have already been on court for 12 hours, have only choked down a few kind bars and bananas and don't need the money to make the bills then why would you want to teach a 50 year old 3.0 who wants to argue with you from 8-9pm instead of taking a shower and eating dinner and going to sleep when you have to be up at 5:30am the next day?
J
You know I agree with almost every post you write .... but not on this point.
One cannot efficiently practice in a practice-match or any match.
For serves, it is definitely worse than hitting a basket on your own.
When I practice I am going to hit 50-75 serves at the bare bare minimum and I am really going to get that rhythm and make small tweaks until I am hitting my spots 9/10 times, varying pace and spin
You simply cannot do that in any match situation .... at most you will have a monster deuce game and hit 10-12 serves with other stuff in between .... then wait until it is your service again, relatively quickly in singles, could be a long time or never in doubles depending on the match. You will never get the reps in.
Same with absolutely any other stroke.
You are correct that you have to take a stroke and use it in practice matches. Clearly true.
But keep in mind that the very best players on the planet practice and drill. They are proficient with their strokes, so why isn't it enough to only play matches?
'Cause tennis strokes, like many other skills, are perishable.
So even though I know how to hit my BH, I have to drill it to retain it and avoid losing my timing or developing funky habits. And of course, league players who are only 3.0-4.0 have lots of things that are not committed to muscle memory. That alone is a very good reason to drill and drill and drill proper form.
As usual, I am in agreement here. For many years, I worked my business career diligently and received enough of a paycheck to allow me to retire fairly young. Now I teach tennis, not so much for the money (although I would certainly not do it for free in most cases) but because it fulfills me, and it particularly fulfills me when I can help my players be energized, engaged and depart our clinic or lesson looking forward to their league match, and our next clinic/lesson.I suppose some of the coaches here can weigh in, as I only know what my coach has said.
He seems more energized and engaged when he has students who are willing to work hard, and he really seemed to like it when the ladies in our private clinic got better. It meant he got to teach more interesting drills and formations and shots.
And, well . . . don't we all need to be getting something out of our jobs besides a paycheck?
You are correct that you have to take a stroke and use it in practice matches. Clearly true.
But keep in mind that the very best players on the planet practice and drill. They are proficient with their strokes, so why isn't it enough to only play matches?
'Cause tennis strokes, like many other skills, are perishable.
So even though I know how to hit my BH, I have to drill it to retain it and avoid losing my timing or developing funky habits. And of course, league players who are only 3.0-4.0 have lots of things that are not committed to muscle memory. That alone is a very good reason to drill and drill and drill proper form.
And, well . . . don't we all need to be getting something out of our jobs besides a paycheck?
The better and more established you get as a coach the more you can pick and choose your lessons/hours.
One caveat though Cindy: I never say "working" to refer to effort in tennis. I say "playing". We don't "work" tennis; we "play" tennis. Perhaps it's a small distinction,,,
One caveat though Cindy: I never say "working" to refer to effort in tennis. I say "playing". We don't "work" tennis; we "play" tennis. Perhaps it's a small distinction,,,
Are you saying I should become a coach?I have not yet found a pro who can improve serves in adults.
Are you saying I should become a coach?
I'm 5' 8'' and serve 110 mph. All of this even while being 100% self-taught.
Really?I have not yet found a pro who can improve serves in adults.
Really?
One pro I used for a while taught me a kick serve in about 20 minutes. I was a 3.5. At 6'4" tall, he stood on a folding chair to guide my swing path so I could get the feel for it.
Was it a Sam Stosur kick serve? Nope. Was it great to have as a change-up in ladies doubles? Yup.
Yes, Captain Obvious, you need to practice to improve at tennis.
That's not my point.
I said that it is almost impossible to find hitting partners who practice tennis.
1 in 100 people practice tennis.
What am I wrong about?
Almost no one practices tennis.
Almost no one has a plan.
1 out of 20 players even take lessons.
Even fewer players will drill with a partner with a hopper feed.
Maybe in 1 in 1000
99% of tennis players never get better.
That's because 99% of tennis players never practice.
They only play.
At 3.5 and 4.0, maybe 1 in 20 players will agree to practice drills with a Hopper. Maybe less.
These hitting partners are gold. 19 out of 20 want to play tennis, not practice
Exactly, practice makes permanent.
That is why people play tennis for 40 years and stay at 3.0
You are not getting corrective feedback during a match.
You only rep your current strokes in a match.
You also have no idea what you are actually doing, only what you THINK you are doing.
If you're not using video, you are basically living in a fantasy world of tennis.
There is a reason ATP players hire coaches for millions of dollars.
3.0-4.0 players just have the wrong things committed to muscle memory. And frequently when I see them practicing, they are still practicing those wrong things. Breaking down faulty muscle memory takes far more effort than just pulling out a bucket of balls and repetitively hitting. It is a significant process of taking several steps back, extensive coaching, video analysis, drills and feeds, etc. Can be done in the motivated, but most players just want to make their poorly encoded muscle memory more consistent.
.
@TimeToPlaySets is correct.
But the same thing goes for kids, miserable kids are just as bad as miserable adults.
I have not yet found a pro who can improve serves in adults.
I'm 5' 8'' and serve 110 mph. All of this even while being 100% self-taught.
When did I say I don't need a coach? I've never been able to afford one. I am not self-taught by choice, but necessity.TW, where 3.0s tell people they don't need coaches.
J
And I changed my mind. I'm probably 3.5 even though I haven't played a match in over 5 years (except for two doubles matches with friends) and have only hit around at most a few times per year since. I will admit, you give good advice on here, and this is probably a misunderstanding.TW, where 3.0s tell people they don't need coaches.
J
When did I say I don't need a coach? I've never been able to afford one. I am not self-taught by choice, but necessity.
And I changed my mind. I'm probably 3.5 even though I haven't played a match in over 5 years (except for two doubles matches with friends) and have only hit around at most a few times per year since. I will admit, you give good advice on here, and this is probably a misunderstanding.
I just like playing tennis. None of my friends play though. Most of my friends I used to hit with ended up moving or we just lost touch. I actually pretty much quit the sport, but just picked it back up last summer for the purpose of attempting to hit as big a serve as I possibly could. I also joined a club this year, and probably could have started playing matches again there, but decided against it. I think for me, this sport is just a phase.Cool, do you play for fun or exercise or just like working on your game?
Nothing wrong with not playing matches.
J
One thing I do find very frustrating is lack of discipline among many parents. I had this fairly talented kid who just got really upset and he started to bounce his racket and even tried to hit the other kid with his forehand, kind of like Lendl used to do to Macenroe. I asked him what the heck he was doing and he thought the other kid cheated and called a ball in middle of the baseline Out thus giving him the service break. So he thought he was justified. So I told him ,, "you saw the ball clearly on the baseline from noman's land where you were standing ??" NO WAY, plus it doesn't matter even if he did cheat, you don't behave that way. I told him you need to control your emotions and that is all part of improving your tennis and life.
Anyway, I told his father what went on and I told him it might be a good idea to ground him for 2 weeks, it is just long enough to get the point across. But then the father said,,,, "well,,, other kid made some questionable calls, so he had right to be mad",,,,, I said What,, are you kidding me ? That is not the point... and his father just shrugged it off.................... WOW....
Yes, but resistance is futile against the Borg.Tell him that Borg's dad punished him
You need to look harder.
Almost every adult that I have ever taught has eventually transitioned to a proper serving grip and added a spin serve. It just takes patience.