Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
When young players smell blood, that's enough to get their confidence up and go harder. The generation has already arrived who are capable of putting the big 3 out to pasture. It's just a matter of when.
How to save tennis AFTER the big 3 leave...
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal was laughing at himself when asked if he was going to be in Paris 2024 (to play on clay) and said yes but as a coach.
I'll be 38 by then!
I don't think I am going to play, but you never know", Nadal told El Español, two years ago.
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
It is more like 6 years now. 38 = 32 in the past.
They have another 24 years to prepare for this.When the big 3 leave, there will be a massive fallout in interest and the tour will become dull. Now this is assuming that a few of these younger guys dont eventually figure it out in the next few years. But it wont matter if they dont show it against an aging big 3. While I will still follow the tour (I will enjoy the tour even when the big 3 leave, just less), it will need to be improved and updated to reinvigorate not only new fans but old ones as well.
A way I see them doing this is in a scheduling overhaul. While it should not be done all at once, or even during the big 3 slam race, they can get started and plan out the changes now. I see a schedule that looks something like this in 2025:
2025 ATP Schedule
- Early to mid January- ATP CUP --later start to season so that there is more off-season
- Late January- AO --get the season started off with a hard court tease
- Early March- Monte Carlo (masters) --go straight into clay but with a nice break
- Late March- Madrid Open (masters) --better spacing then now
- Mid April- Italian Open (masters) --better spacing then now
- Early May- FO --starts about two weeks earlier
- Mid June- Queens Club (masters) --finally grass masters with adequate spacing
- Late June- Navient Open (masters) --finally grass masters with adequate spacing
- Mid July- WC --starts two weeks later
- Mid August- Montreal (masters) --USO warm-ups
- Late August- Cincy (masters) --USO warm-ups
- Mid September- USO --much better weather while no risk of cold
- Early October- IW (masters) --still good weather and lumped with HC season
- Mid October- Miami (masters) --still good weather and lumped with HC season
- Early November- Shanghai Indoors (masters) --Make it fair for the tour points, play both masters indoor and WTF's indoor and in different time zones so competition is not an issue
- Early November- WTF's --Make it fair for the tour points, play both masters indoor and WTF's indoor and in different time zones so competition is not an issue
What this schedule will do is space out tourney better, keep things localized and compartmentalized by surface. Also, gives a more equal surface distribution while still acknowledging hard courts is the main surface. It also gives a bigger off season.
Obviously you would like to slowly move around masters over the next 5 years instead of making one big change. The tourney directors may benefit from this in the long term as well. But something will need to be done to spice things up after the big 3.
Maybe even count the "Sunshine Slam" as a real slam count, or simply give an extra 500 points?
Thoughts? Do they need to overhaul the schedule when the big 3 leave, or should they just do it now? What would you do if you were the master scheduler?
Big 3 response:
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
The basic premise sounds promising, but there are too many Masters 1000s. Here's how I would lay it out (the hyphens show the different "blocks" of big tournaments):
Mid January: ATP Cup
--
Early February (give the players a bit of extra breathing room to warm up for the AO): AO -- Grand Slam #1
--
Mid March: Indian Wells (doesn't make sense to move the Sunshine Double out of spring) -- Masters 1000 #1
Mid March (keeping with tradition of being right after IW): Miami -- Masters 1000 #2
--
Early April: Monte-Carlo -- Masters 1000 #3
--
(in between will be the Spanish part of the clay season, with Madrid and Barcelona being the main events during this period)
--
Early May: Rome -- Masters 1000 #4
Late May: French Open -- Grand Slam #2
--
Mid June (basically spread out the grass season some more): Halle -- Masters 1000 #5
Late June: Queens' Club -- Masters 1000 #6
--
Mid July: Wimbledon -- Grand Slam #3
--
Mid August: Canada -- Masters 1000 #7
Late August: Cincinnati -- Masters 1000 #8
--
Mid September: US Open -- Grand Slam #4
--
Late October: Shanghai (indoors) -- Masters 1000 #9
Mid November: ATP World Tour Finals
Paris and Madrid could be made ATP 750s or something like that which still puts them ahead of the rest of the tour. I'm not completely sold on downgrading them but I guess it could work. Besides, I think Shanghai works as the only post-USO Masters tournament.
This list spaces out some of the Masters 1000s more, which gives much more breathing room to the players. Especially in the clay season, where not everyone plays all the Masters events. If we remove one of the clay Masters, though, then MC needs to be mandatory in the same way that most of the others are mandatory. Moving the AO to February also gives players more of an opportunity to warm up prior to the tournament. I'm still adamant that Indian Wells and Miami need to stay in the spring season, but mostly for sentimental reasons so I guess you can take that with a pinch of salt.
The Masters 1000s themselves should be organized in the same way so that it'd be hard to claim that one is "more prestigious" than the others. Give all of them the same draw size, for starters.
Lastly, WTF finals should be best of five again.
But this is just my opinion.
Mid January: ATP Cup
--
Early February (give the players a bit of extra breathing room to warm up for the AO): AO -- Grand Slam #1
--
Mid March: Indian Wells (doesn't make sense to move the Sunshine Double out of spring) -- Masters 1000 #1
Mid March (keeping with tradition of being right after IW): Miami -- Masters 1000 #2
--
Early April: Monte-Carlo -- Masters 1000 #3
--
(in between will be the Spanish part of the clay season, with Madrid and Barcelona being the main events during this period)
--
Early May: Rome -- Masters 1000 #4
Late May: French Open -- Grand Slam #2
--
Mid June (basically spread out the grass season some more): Halle -- Masters 1000 #5
Late June: Queens' Club -- Masters 1000 #6
--
Mid July: Wimbledon -- Grand Slam #3
--
Mid August: Canada -- Masters 1000 #7
Late August: Cincinnati -- Masters 1000 #8
--
Mid September: US Open -- Grand Slam #4
--
Late October: Shanghai (indoors) -- Masters 1000 #9
Mid November: ATP World Tour Finals
Paris and Madrid could be made ATP 750s or something like that which still puts them ahead of the rest of the tour. I'm not completely sold on downgrading them but I guess it could work. Besides, I think Shanghai works as the only post-USO Masters tournament.
This list spaces out some of the Masters 1000s more, which gives much more breathing room to the players. Especially in the clay season, where not everyone plays all the Masters events. If we remove one of the clay Masters, though, then MC needs to be mandatory in the same way that most of the others are mandatory. Moving the AO to February also gives players more of an opportunity to warm up prior to the tournament. I'm still adamant that Indian Wells and Miami need to stay in the spring season, but mostly for sentimental reasons so I guess you can take that with a pinch of salt.
The Masters 1000s themselves should be organized in the same way so that it'd be hard to claim that one is "more prestigious" than the others. Give all of them the same draw size, for starters.
Lastly, WTF finals should be best of five again.
But this is just my opinion.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
I like it, seems similar to mine but without moving the sunshine double and giving more rest between WTF and the first slam. But I still think that is a gauntlet of tourneys without much break.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
What would be an example? I could see the summer hard court swing being problematic, but what else?
Well done, that's so logical it's hard to understand why it's not being done.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Just never slows down after AO. Plus that summer would kill some players. That is the hottest part of the year. I almost wish they could get rid of Cincy and alleviate that push. Make Canada the only Masters tune up and use the 500's.
D
Deleted member 744633
Guest
When the big 3 leave, there will be a massive fallout in interest and the tour will become dull. Now this is assuming that a few of these younger guys dont eventually figure it out in the next few years. But it wont matter if they dont show it against an aging big 3. While I will still follow the tour (I will enjoy the tour even when the big 3 leave, just less), it will need to be improved and updated to reinvigorate not only new fans but old ones as well.
A way I see them doing this is in a scheduling overhaul. While it should not be done all at once, or even during the big 3 slam race, they can get started and plan out the changes now. I see a schedule that looks something like this in 2025:
2025 ATP Schedule
- Early to mid January- ATP CUP --later start to season so that there is more off-season
- Late January- AO --get the season started off with a hard court tease
- Early March- Monte Carlo (masters) --go straight into clay but with a nice break
- Late March- Madrid Open (masters) --better spacing then now
- Mid April- Italian Open (masters) --better spacing then now
- Early May- FO --starts about two weeks earlier
- Mid June- Queens Club (masters) --finally grass masters with adequate spacing
- Late June- Navient Open (masters) --finally grass masters with adequate spacing
- Mid July- WC --starts two weeks later
- Mid August- Montreal (masters) --USO warm-ups
- Late August- Cincy (masters) --USO warm-ups
- Mid September- USO --much better weather while no risk of cold
- Early October- IW (masters) --still good weather and lumped with HC season
- Mid October- Miami (masters) --still good weather and lumped with HC season
- Early November- Shanghai Indoors (masters) --Make it fair for the tour points, play both masters indoor and WTF's indoor and in different time zones so competition is not an issue
- Early November- WTF's --Make it fair for the tour points, play both masters indoor and WTF's indoor and in different time zones so competition is not an issue
What this schedule will do is space out tourney better, keep things localized and compartmentalized by surface. Also, gives a more equal surface distribution while still acknowledging hard courts is the main surface. It also gives a bigger off season.
Obviously you would like to slowly move around masters over the next 5 years instead of making one big change. The tourney directors may benefit from this in the long term as well. But something will need to be done to spice things up after the big 3.
Maybe even count the "Sunshine Slam" as a real slam count, or simply give an extra 500 points?
Thoughts? Do they need to overhaul the schedule when the big 3 leave, or should they just do it now? What would you do if you were the master scheduler?
Big 3 response:
Otha lavadekabaal, why do you torture yourself with these thoughts. All you got to do is place a tennis racquet in the hands of this man when the top 3 are gone and not only will tennis be saved, it'll be more popular than all the other sports combined!
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Cincy would make a pretty good ATP 750.
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
#destroyed within seconds
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
Is that even a question?
Because they aren't capable. Yes they are that pathetic
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
When the big 3 leave, there will be a massive fallout in interest and the tour will become dull. Now this is assuming that a few of these younger guys dont eventually figure it out in the next few years. But it wont matter if they dont show it against an aging big 3. While I will still follow the tour (I will enjoy the tour even when the big 3 leave, just less), it will need to be improved and updated to reinvigorate not only new fans but old ones as well.
A way I see them doing this is in a scheduling overhaul. While it should not be done all at once, or even during the big 3 slam race, they can get started and plan out the changes now. I see a schedule that looks something like this in 2025:
2025 ATP Schedule
- Early to mid January- ATP CUP --later start to season so that there is more off-season
- Late January- AO --get the season started off with a hard court tease
- Early March- Monte Carlo (masters) --go straight into clay but with a nice break
- Late March- Madrid Open (masters) --better spacing then now
- Mid April- Italian Open (masters) --better spacing then now
- Early May- FO --starts about two weeks earlier
- Mid June- Queens Club (masters) --finally grass masters with adequate spacing
- Late June- Navient Open (masters) --finally grass masters with adequate spacing
- Mid July- WC --starts two weeks later
- Mid August- Montreal (masters) --USO warm-ups
- Late August- Cincy (masters) --USO warm-ups
- Mid September- USO --much better weather while no risk of cold
- Early October- IW (masters) --still good weather and lumped with HC season
- Mid October- Miami (masters) --still good weather and lumped with HC season
- Early November- Shanghai Indoors (masters) --Make it fair for the tour points, play both masters indoor and WTF's indoor and in different time zones so competition is not an issue
- Early November- WTF's --Make it fair for the tour points, play both masters indoor and WTF's indoor and in different time zones so competition is not an issue
What this schedule will do is space out tourney better, keep things localized and compartmentalized by surface. Also, gives a more equal surface distribution while still acknowledging hard courts is the main surface. It also gives a bigger off season.
Obviously you would like to slowly move around masters over the next 5 years instead of making one big change. The tourney directors may benefit from this in the long term as well. But something will need to be done to spice things up after the big 3.
Maybe even count the "Sunshine Slam" as a real slam count, or simply give an extra 500 points?
Thoughts? Do they need to overhaul the schedule when the big 3 leave, or should they just do it now? What would you do if you were the master scheduler?
Big 3 response:
I guess you have never been to Monte Carlo or Madrid in March.
If you do please pack your overcoat.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
I haven't, but have you been to the USO in August? Insanely miserable. When I look at the weather online, it does not look too bad. 50-60's.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
Well it would be utterly miserable in the 50s wouldn’t it?
You are from Montreal and are thus accustomed to freezing weather (and equally unaccustomed to lovely warm weather like the AO Open in January!) but please don’t enforce your climatic norm onto the rest of us!
That's less than 20 Celcius. I could not play tennis under those conditions. I'm getting hypothermia just thinking about it.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
Haha 59 Fahrenheit is 15c brrrhh.. and wait for it 50 F is an arctic 10c!!!!
Imagine the poor spectators...
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Well, I am fine with it. Better a little chilly then humid and hot.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
What? If it is 30 C, I stay inside and stay safe.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
If you put me near the water to cool down... sure. But what about this?I'll take my chances outside.
