Anton
Legend
Why not? Can't you just cut it back down?
2021 Yonex VCore 95
- Thread starter TagUrIt
- Start date
Why not? Can't you just cut it back down?
Anton
Legend
Never felt any of that - 95 plays like a normal 98
Anton
Legend
Just got my second frame, playing it with just 1.5g lead on throat and it's been awesome with this setup:
RS Lyon 17 (1.25) mains at ~50lb (52,52,51going down to 47)
RS Lyon 17L(1.20) cross at ~49lb (42,45,47,48,49,50,51,51...50.5,50,49.5,49...47)
17 all around locked up a bit, so I needed to use silicone lube after ~10 hours of play. But with slightly thinner cross no lock-ups.
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
The one I demo'd at least was so different, much harder to swing or get good ball contact with 95 and it had a strange thunk at impact the 98 doesnt
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
I think we as humans have this habit of projecting the rest of the world from our own experiences. Meaning, I have trouble with something, therefore everyone else does too. We do that to allow us to keep going (coping mechanism).
Djokovic, Wawrinka, Murray, Evans, Del Potro, Dimitrov, Medvedev, Shapovalov, Fritz, and Schwartzman are just some examples of Open Level players using 95 sq. in. racquets, that play well and compete against Open Level players. This is much higher than 5.0, so I guess it can be done.
Now, if you want to call these people superhuman... ok. My friend I hit with is 5.0+, and it doesn't matter what racquet he puts into his hand... as long as he gets to the ball, it is coming over and going to give you trouble. In fact, often he has more weighty and menacing shots with his 90 sq. in. racquets than his Ezone 98. I am at the 5.0 level, I have no problem playing with the VC95, VC95D, Head Prestiges, PT630s, etc against guys that are at a similar level. If we played @Richard Pioline, and he had in his hands his 93P 18x20, I bet he would be able to stay competitive with people at the 5.0 level (he was in the Top 100 in Germany when he was younger using a 90 sq. in. racquet - I would bet that was higher than 5.0 level). There are many people who can play with such racquets just fine.
I can guarantee you that if I gave my VC95 to one of the coaches I hit with, and I pulled out my Gravity Pro, he would wipe the floor with me 10 out of 10 times. Would it be his favourite racquet... probably not as he is a Wilson guy and likes his Pro Staff 97, but the reason he would wipe the floor with me is greater skill, superior experience, excellent footwork and anticipation, and excellent fitness. It's your skill/technique, fitness, and footwork that get the job done, not a 95 or 98 or a 100 sq. in. racquet.
Now we come to the other part of the equation. Why are you playing tennis? Is it just to win? Is it for the enjoyment? Is it for money? All of these reasons might make you choose different racquets in the end (people make choices for different reasons). If I'm playing just to win, I will pick the racquet that just gets the job done (probably something like a PD Tour where I blast a huge serve, the other person doesn't get it back or gives me an easy put-away... keep doing that until I win). If I'm playing for the enjoyment of the game and feel and mastery of the ball... then I definitely would NOT pick a PD Tour (or something like it), I would probably go for something like a PT630 or Phantom 93P and love every shot I hit, the variety I can produce and the ability to hit my spots and corners. If I play for money... I will pick the combination of the racquet I can play very well with and the company that will pay me the most money to use their racquet (I need to win and be successful, but I also need to make as much money as I possibly can - therefore I may not use my absolute favourite racquet if it paid me peanuts, eg. I destroy with an Angell TC95 18x20... but he can't pay me as much as Head can to use a Radical MP with which I can still do 95% of what I can do with the TC95).
Now, is the VC95 the easiest racquet to play with... NO. But the difference in head size and sweet spot size between a VC95 and a Ezone 98 is not that great (especially after modifications). It's a couple of mm (sometimes 1mm on each side of the head or all around), which means that if you hit outside of the sweet spot or at the edge of the racquet... you would have done that with a 95, 98, or even a 100 sq. in. racquet. Put more focus on keeping your eye on the ball than worrying about whether the racquet is a 95, 97, 98 or a 100, it will produce better results.
Finally, we all have our own preferences when it comes to stiffness, flex-profile, length, head size, head shape, colour, brand, etc. Therefore, the choices we make will be different. But, to say that a 95 sq. in. racquet can not be used at any level, that one can not be competitive... is just not true.
Sorry for the rant. Rant over.
Amen to this. I'm a 4.5 player, bordering on 5.0. But my competitive days are behind me. I hit primarily with 4.0-4.5 guys, with one 5.0 player. When I'm playing the 5.0, I grab my goto stick (right now, its the Artengo). But when I play against anyone else, I like to try other frames for the pure enjoyment of it. I used to play with the PS85. I still think the differences in head size are over blown, but do I worry about using a VC95? or say a PA/PD 100" frame? Not in the slightest. At one point a few years ago I was hitting with the POG OS re-issues.
Now if my livelihood was depending on my ability to play tennis, then you bet I'm finding the best stick that allows me to get the BEST results, even if it doesn't "feel" the best to me. But since I'm not a pro player, I'd like to try to find the middle ground. A frame that lets me play well and competitively, but also feel good. That may be a VC95 one day, a Ultra Pro the next, or some new frame that hasn't been released yet.
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
I agree with you on the extension. One of the things that would be great and interesting is if they produced a VC95 in a 27.25 in. length. That would add SW and power and make things really interesting.
Fingers crossed.
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
Completely agree. Plus certain people will prefer stiffer racquets... so it may appeal to some, but that is more a feel thing than a power thing.
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
Agree 100%.
When did I ever say it can't be done? Yes 95 sq inch is viable at the ATP level with modifications and high static/swingweight. All those players you mentioned have extremely heavy rackets and train 30+hours a week. I am a rec player so what does ATP player specs have to do with me ? Literally nothing.
You misread my statement and went on some weird tangent talking about playing with different rackets and stuff, when did I say it wasn't possible to play high level tennis with a 95 sq inch frame? I said it was difficult, if the frame is really flexy and underpowered which is what we were originally debating because you were saying you hope Yonex lowers the RA for 2023 and I'm like noooo because the frame needs any additional pop it can get. I am hoping for 2023 they make the racket more user friendly and somewhat comparable to Ezone's and blades in terms of power (If it's even possible, it might not be, idk.). Especially for those of us who don't want to add a lot of weight to the frame (non-atp players)
Djokovic specs 353g, 360 SW
Wawrinka specs 375g, 360 SW
Murray specs 353g, 373 SW
Del Potro specs 367g, 355 SW
You wrote an essay and went on a rant for no reason. most 95 sq inch rackets need additional POWER whether thats from additional weight, stiffness, strings or combination of all three but you have to get it from somewhere. That was my point. Never did I say "it's impossible to play high level tennis with a 95 sq inch frame"
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Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
I must have mis-interpreted your statement of "Try playing at the 5.0 level with a 95" as something of a very hard-impossible thing. That is why I said that I have and it's possible.
For reference, most of my racquets are 350-365g strung, and most of them have a SW of 335+ ... so I'm comfortable there. The VC95 I tried at a lower spec, and it feels like I'm swinging a twig... therefore I rely on greater RHS and loose wrists (a la Federer) to smack the little fuzzy yellow ball around (not my preferred style, but gets the job done).
One of the reasons I hold my lower RA view is that I feel that comfort if one of the most important things. Of course, weight and specs are important, but as long as the racquet is not too heavy (meaning lower weight will allow you to modify to individual spec) it can be fixed. The comfort is harder to achieve. Case-in-point, I play with the 360+ ET quite a bit, and although I like it very much, I would have preferred if the RA was a bit lower for even more comfort (I sometimes had a bit of soreness in my elbow after playing - even after it was modified to 343g strung). To increase the comfort, I had to add silicone in the handle. This has improved the comfort, but has added quite a bit of weight. If that racquet was in the lower 60s from the start, it may have not needed the addition of silicone and would have stayed at 343g rather than the 362g it is now. Luckily I don't mind racquets at that weight, so I'm good... but if I didn't I'd have to give up a great racquet as it is not "just right" in the comfort department.
Be well... and sorry for the confusion.
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No worries your post had a lot of good information and insight and I agree with you regarding 95 sq inch frames which is why I currently use this frame. I am a bit weaker than you and my static weight limit is around 345g and I do also like SW above 330. Are you mostly playing doubles or singles? You must be very fit to be playing with an almost ATP spec. As much as I would like to believe I can use a 360g frame, I play much better when my racket weighs around 340-345. That was a hard pill to swallow but I am playing much better than I was with the RF97...lol.
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
I play mostly singles.
I am not as fit as I'd like to be, but that is mostly due to a few health issues I've had that are not related to the spec of the racquets, but have made recovering and getting back to the fitness I had previously more difficult.
I'm also closer to 48 than 47... and I'm trying to hold on. Fingers crossed.
Anton
Legend
By spec the 95 and 98 are more or less the same in terms of weight/balance/SW, meaning you could have gotten a "harder to swing" 98, just as easily as "harder to swing" 95.
But at the end of the day these are still rackets light enough to be made "easy to swing" with a bit of well placed lead.
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
I only demo'd the 95 once and the 98 multiple times and previously owned a 98, every single 98 swings very easily they were all the same as each other or similar enough. The 95 felt like a tank way heavier and slower to swing, and had the very weird impact thunk feeling and sound that doesn't exist with 98s. I noticed it served really well when I got in a groove but couldn't gain anything out of it on groundstrokes
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
He wasn't saying 95 sq. in. racquets don't work he was saying 95 sq. in. "AND" super flexible 60 RA not good at 5.0 level
Vale46
New User
So true..so true!
I absoutely agree ... there is a lot of truth in these words.
Stan is becoming the Man again beating the over hyped high rpm often short FH of Rudd.
The longer lighter bigger headed racquet with lower tension has helped Rudd but it goes to show that his FH is nothing compared to the Titans close to good form.
I like Rudd, nice guy but got a royal clobbering that was waiting to happen once facing the slam heavyweights of recent years.
Stan may not be the fastest player or as mobile as the youth but toe to toe will massacre most players with sheer heavyness off both sides.
Was good to see that level again. Now would like to see Stan vs Thiem again soon.
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
I disagreed... but we all have our opinions. My hitting partners tell me that I produce the most powerful and heaviest balls with my PT630 (which is a 95 sq. in. racquet with an RA of 58).
Well yeah we’ve already clarified you play with 360g rackets which is not most people. Im sure you could play with a 90 and be fine with that amount of weight.
Most people are gonna be using rackets in stock form or close to it which is why I was saying I hope they make the 2023 version more user friendly.
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
We understand each other. There are many factors involved, and we are all individuals.
naturalexponent
Hall of Fame
From my perspective the disconnect here is that @Classic-TXP-IG MID made a statement about his personal preferences and then there are a bunch of responses to that making a generalization about how things are played or should be played at higher levels of tennis. We can all have our personal preferences and one person's does not invalidate another's.
naturalexponent
Hall of Fame
To bring it back to the VC95, I don't know what it is about this frame that draws me like a moth to a flame. I know I don't play my best tennis with it and that I get frustrated, but there's something about the mold and the cosmetic and the quirky feel that make me want to at least own them (in all iterations thus far). I do kind of wish they would slow down the release cycles though - there are too many racquets and there is too little time (and money).
Djokovic also plays with an extended racket, and 360 SW. What rec player is getting close to that spec?
I'm not sure why we keep bringing up ATP players with no context regarding their actual specs.
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I guess that's possible! I never did it before. I'll have to just ask the racket mod guy.
Classic-TXP-IG MID
Hall of Fame
You're asking the question, so I'll provide an answer. My BP 16x19 v7 is 364g strung, 315mm balance, and 354 SW. I'm a rec player. Admittedly, I do not play 5-6 hr matches with it, but with prolonged and proper training, I can play 2-3 sets.
It is all down to what you are used to, what your muscle memory feels is "normal", and your technique, footwork, and timing.
When I was 7 yrs old I used to play with a wooden Dunlop racquet which was over 14 oz. All kids did that. If I could wield a 14 oz racquet as a 7 yr old... I see no reason I can't now swing a racquet at 12.8 oz. as a grown man. But that's just me... I'm not saying my way is the right way... I'm just saying it can be done and why I feel this way.
To each his/her own.
Well yes I know specs are very individual, that's why we have lead tape. But we are specifically talking about the stock specs for a 2023 version. Not sure how we get off on some weird tangent about what professionals use. My point was that most rec players don't want to add 30g of weight to a frame and will be playing it close to stock...so my request for Yonex is for them to somehow make the frame more user friendly for 2023 if it's possible without any additional weight.
That way players like yourself can still add weight and players who don't care to add any can be happy.
Again I don't know if it's possible, but it would be cool if they could figure it out. The 2018 > 2021 version was definitely more user friendly.
The average ATP player racket is 12.3 oz....that's great you can swing 12.8 but to expect the majority of rec players to use that amount of weight is not realistic when they don't train 30 hours a week.
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FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Back to the Vcore 95---- since some are discussing the new one, anyone have a particular guess or wish for it? One Yonex trend that is real but not sure if it will go forward is the Ezone 98 Tour has a similar flex in the throat as the Regna 98, will Yonex shower the rest of their rackets with this flex?
Phat Dave
New User
VCORE95 in 320 grams, drop width to continuous 20 mm, and get HD hyper-bend flex in the throat
Anton
Legend
Hmm, I guess 95 just has higher twistweight then.
What I've bolded is exactly why I love the 95. It's just solid and true, gives me whatever I put in (with just a bit of lead). I can create plenty of momentum and just need the frame to deliver it consistently with a predictable lift, spin and range.
All of the Vcore 98's have higher twistweight than the 95's.
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
I remember as soon as I picked up the 95 demo after hitting with the other 2 demos I was like whoa why is that so heavy, I expected since 95 is smaller it'd be light and most maneuverable but it was the opposite. Idk maybe they hid a hammer inside the handle ha
celito
Professional
I guess it depends on where you're coming from and what you're used to (in terms of racquet). VC95 feels very maneuverable to me and not heavy.
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
I might be exaggerating it might just be that it took me by surprise that it was significantly heavier and less maneuverable than 98 and 100 vcores it was a while ago so I cant remember perfectly at this point
iceman_dl6
Professional
Because of the smaller head, still felt fast after weighing it up to 350g strung.
bobeeto
Professional
I might be retiring my VC95...over the last few months I have been loving it in practice & when I play weaker players than myself but I have noticed some downsides when playing stronger players who can keep you on defense. I think this racket really shines in doubles where you don't have to move much and the accuracy of the frame is highlighted like hitting short angles, drop volleys and well executed lobs but in singles this racket is super demanding if you don't play often. I am 5'6 and 140 lbs so I am on the smaller side playing against guys who are almost a foot taller than me with big booming serves and big groundstrokes. I know I could train harder to use this frame but I want tennis to be fun and not feel like a job or anything.
I have league playoffs this weekend (doubles) but after that I will be retiring these frames. If any of you would like to take them off my hands they are grip size 1 (4 1/8) PM me & we can work something out.
I will be moving to either the 2022 Ezone 98 or Ezone 98 Plus.
I have league playoffs this weekend (doubles) but after that I will be retiring these frames. If any of you would like to take them off my hands they are grip size 1 (4 1/8) PM me & we can work something out.
I will be moving to either the 2022 Ezone 98 or Ezone 98 Plus.
Going to try one last experiment...so I removed 5g of lead from the throat of my VC 95's to see if it would help with maneuverability and defense when digging out of corners and surprisingly it did help a little bit. I found myself able to hit with a bit more spin and defense when needed. The frame is still demanding obviously but the lower static weight is helping with baseline play a bit. I may have gone a bit to lead happy with the throat & handle. I'll see how it holds up in a match but basically my rackets went from 343g to 338g. I guess it removed about 1 point of SW since it was mostly concentrated at the throat. I'll report back and see if it helps when playing bigger hitters.
Right now I have 6g @ 12 o clock. and 6g @ 3 & 9. I would guess that my SW is somewhere around 340.
Right now I have 6g @ 12 o clock. and 6g @ 3 & 9. I would guess that my SW is somewhere around 340.
Nate7-5
Hall of Fame
Adding weight to it has always messed up a good thing for me
If you can generate your own power with 310 SW (mine came under spec) with the smaller headsize then there's no need for the hoop lead. For me it's necessary and much needed with this frame as this line of rackets has always had a platform spec type of weight distribution (low static, low SW, low twistweight) my friends ask me about this frame and I tell them that if they don't want to customize they should not buy it and look somewhere else.
It kind of reminds me of the Ultra Tour 97 from a few years ago. It has literally the exact same specs and everyone kept saying how that was a "platform" racket.
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Nate7-5
Hall of Fame
I think it plays really well right around 320. My unstrung swingweight was 285, so if I get another one I will target 287/288.
Yeah I'd definitely get it up to 325 minimum. 310-315 is too anemic
Lost in my 4.5 league doubles today 3-6, 6-7, not because of the frame but because I had a weak partner who hadn't played in 3 months and everything went to his side... Lmao! Anyways I was telling the captain about my troubles with the VC 95 and he wanted to buy the VC95's off of me. So after the match I sold him my 95's right then and there. It's been fun guys. I'll lurk here from time to time and I'm curious to see what they do with the 2023 version.
Gonna start with the 2022 Ezone 98 and hopefully it plays close to the VC 95.
Gonna start with the 2022 Ezone 98 and hopefully it plays close to the VC 95.
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
Whats wrong with vcore 98 instead of ezone 98?
Haha nothing, I am just more familiar with the Ezone line of rackets. I used to play with the DR 98 a while back and have really great memories with that frame. I also prefer the cosmetic of the Ezone line.
Torps
Semi-Pro
You’ll probably be happy with the Ezone 98.. the VCore 98 launch will be much higher than you’re used to I think. I just picked one up to rotate with my 97D and prior gen VCore pros. Had a short one month stint with the 95, but way too demanding against all out attacking players as you’ve found.
The Ezone plays similar enough to the VCore pros launch etc but stiffer.. Not super plush but not uncomfortable either. Didn’t find it hard to adjust and it was the same with the 95.
Aestheticsaboveallelse
Legend
Sounds like it'd be good to have 2 primary racquets, a vcore 95 vs players who aren't heavy attackers and another racquet thats great for defense vs attackers
