Fed: Aggression is the key

miyagi · Mar 25, 2009

World number two Roger Federer said he was not going to analyse his recent defeats by Rafael Nadal and Andy Murray and believes an aggressive approach will bring him back to winning form.

Federer has not won a Masters title since 2007 and has lost his last five matches against Nadal, including the five-set thriller in the Australian Open last month.

After that disappointment, the Swiss player lost out to Britain's Murray in the semi-finals at Indian Wells last week.

"You could analyse in a big way but at the same time, it just happens sometimes. Of course I was disappointed at the way the match ended in Australia and also in Indian Wells but it is not the end of the world," he said in Miami at the Sony Ericsson Open.

"It doesn't really play on my mind a whole lot because I go out there and try to play every point as tough as I can."

Federer, who begins his campaign in Miami against American journeyman Kevin Kim, says he has only one route to beating Nadal.

"I've tried many different things against Rafa. Usually it is the aggressive playing style that makes me beat Rafa, especially on the hard courts. I haven't had many chances on hard courts against him, I've had so many more on clay," he added.

"On hard court I have to play aggressively against him. There is no way around that. I know how I have to play him. I've beaten him enough to know," said the 27-year-old.

Federer, who has 13 grand slam titles, rejected the suggestion that a back problem is seriously hampering him.

"The back is okay, I wish it was better but it's not really handicapping me when I am playing. It's not that bad," he said.

link... http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/25032009/58/atp-tour-federer-aggression-key-success.html

clayman2000 · Mar 25, 2009

To beat Nadal you have to run around the court like a rabbit hitting winner from everywhere

Nadal_Freak · Mar 25, 2009

To beat Nadal, you got to be superman.

miyagi · Mar 25, 2009

Nadal_Freak said:
To beat Nadal, you got to be superman.

Is blake Superman then? or Youhzny? Or Ferrer? I dont think so....

clayman2000 · Mar 25, 2009

miyagi said:
Is blake Superman then? or Youhzny? Or Ferrer? I dont think so....

Way to ruin it pal

punchdrunker · Mar 25, 2009

Punchdrunker believes aggression alone can't beat Rafa, you need incredible WHEELS too.

TheTruth · Mar 25, 2009

Only problem is when Fed gets aggressive he overplays too much. He misses a lot of volleys and put aways.

Nah! I don't see it.

mikethehamster · Mar 25, 2009

...

to beat nadal you have to drape a towel over your danger zone and drink out of two bottles during a changeover.

GameSampras · Mar 25, 2009

As long as Nadal is attacking Fed's BH with persistence, there will be no conquering of Nadal by Fed. He needs to improve that BH or there is no hope for Fed in terms of Nadal. Maybe not even Murray anymore. They have found the way to defeat Roger. By being "aggressive" does that mean needs to go for broke? Thats all fine and dandy when everything is clicking. When he framing shots, overhitting his FH etc, than thats a problem

tudwell · Mar 25, 2009

GameSampras said:
As long as Nadal is attacking Fed's BH with persistence, there will be no conquering of Nadal by Fed. He needs to improve that BH or there is no hope for Fed in terms of Nadal. Maybe not even Murray anymore. They have found the way to defeat Roger. By being "aggressive" does that mean needs to go for broke? Thats all fine and dandy when everything is clicking. When he framing shots, overhitting his FH etc, than thats a problem

It wasn't Fed's backhand that lost him the Australian Open final, it was his brain. Fed's backhand held up pretty well in that match. On clay and higher bouncing surfaces, it can become a liability, but for the most part it's a solid stroke.

vtmike · Mar 25, 2009

Federer being arrogant yet again!! :roll: How dare he say he can beat Rafa with aggresion...Its just not possible to beat Rafa...he is the bestest player in the history of the universe

bolo · Mar 25, 2009

if he is aggressive from the baseline he will lose badly. But if he can find his old net game he might be able to steal a few from the world no. 1. Their next non clay match is going to be fascinating.

veroniquem · Mar 25, 2009

miyagi said:
Is blake Superman then? or Youhzny? Or Ferrer? I dont think so....

None of those guys have beaten Nadal recently and Blake has lost his last 2 matches vs Nadal (on hard).

veroniquem · Mar 25, 2009

The problem for Federer is consistency. He makes way too many UEs trying to paint the lines (even when he doesn't necessarily need to). If he plays even more aggressive, his UES are gonna hit the roof and his results will be even worse.

King of Aces · Mar 25, 2009

Federers only chance to serve and volley 75 percent of the time. He is not going to win from the baseline.

Nadal_Freak · Mar 25, 2009

miyagi said:
Is blake Superman then? or Youhzny? Or Ferrer? I dont think so....

We're talking 2009 there. They have no chance with modern Nadal.

miyagi · Mar 25, 2009

Nadal_Freak said:
We're talking 2009 there. They have no chance with modern Nadal.

Monfils and Murray are supermen then lol!!

Nadal is the best so far in 09 no disputing that, can he be beaten? Yes he can!

edberg505 · Mar 25, 2009

veroniquem said:
The problem for Federer is consistency. He makes way too many UEs trying to paint the lines (even when he doesn't necessarily need to). If he plays even more aggressive, his UES are gonna hit the roof and his results will be even worse.

Nadal_Freak said:
We're talking 2009 there. They have no chance with modern Nadal.

Absolutely right, no one can beat Nadal. He's the undisputed king of the free world. He will win everything for the next 10 years.

wangs78 · Mar 25, 2009

clayman2000 said:
To beat Nadal you have to run around the court like a rabbit hitting winner from everywhere

Who was it that said this? Safin?

edberg505 · Mar 25, 2009

wangs78 said:
Who was it that said this? Safin?

Safin said that about Federer.

wangs78 · Mar 25, 2009

GameSampras said:
As long as Nadal is attacking Fed's BH with persistence, there will be no conquering of Nadal by Fed. He needs to improve that BH or there is no hope for Fed in terms of Nadal. Maybe not even Murray anymore. They have found the way to defeat Roger. By being "aggressive" does that mean needs to go for broke? Thats all fine and dandy when everything is clicking. When he framing shots, overhitting his FH etc, than thats a problem

While Fed has an excellent BH (when it is working consistently), can't say that he has the ability to be the aggressor from the BH wing. Fed needs to employ tactics force Nadal to hit to his FH side. For example, Fed could hit repeatedly to the deuce court, forcing Nadal to hit cross court to Fed's FH or risk trying a harder down the line shot.

wangs78 · Mar 25, 2009

tudwell said:
It wasn't Fed's backhand that lost him the Australian Open final, it was his brain. Fed's backhand held up pretty well in that match. On clay and higher bouncing surfaces, it can become a liability, but for the most part it's a solid stroke.

Agreed, it was his brain. Fed wasn't even serving well that day. He was tight.

veroniquem · Mar 25, 2009

miyagi said:
Monfils and Murray are supermen then lol!!

Nadal is the best so far in 09 no disputing that, can he be beaten? Yes he can!

There's no doubt about that. By Fed? That's a little more of a question mark at this point.

Bassus · Mar 25, 2009

tudwell said:
It wasn't Fed's backhand that lost him the Australian Open final, it was his brain. Fed's backhand held up pretty well in that match. On clay and higher bouncing surfaces, it can become a liability, but for the most part it's a solid stroke.

I agree. In fact, I think Federer's backhand has not really cost him a match against Nadal since the 2006 FO final where the Nadal forehand to Federer backhand was definitely decisive. There is no doubt that it is a continuing factor in favor of Nadal, but I don't think Nadal has completely broken down Federer's backhand since that first FO final.

As you say, it was the mental factor that won Nadal the AO final. Federer definitely should have won that match -- Nadal was less than 100%, Federer was in great form with plenty of rest, he went up a break twice in the first set and couldn't hold it, he was unable to break in the third despite being up 0-40 in one game and 15-40 in another, and then he completely folded in the fifth despite having just won the fourth.

In short, Federer choked big time in the AO final.

The turning point in the rivalry was last year's clay court season. Leading up to that, Federer had actually had a good run against Nadal, winning three of the previous four matches, and had got the overall record to a very competitive 6-8. Then came Monte-Carlo 2008, where Federer blew a 4-0 lead in one of the sets. Then came Hamburg, where Federer blew a 5-1 lead in the first set. Then came the FO debacle.

I think that Nadal broke Federer in that Hamburg match, and ever since Nadal has had nerves of steel and an iron will in the biggest moments, while Federer has come up short everytime even when he has had one opportunity after another. This is why I find it hard to be optimistic for Federer. I just can't see him beating Nadal in a grandslam anymore.

miyagi · Mar 25, 2009

veroniquem said:
There's no doubt about that. By Fed? That's a little more of a question mark at this point.

If Fed continues with this attitude I doubt he can but who knows what will happen the next time they play. But to give the impression Nadal is invicible is BS....

user92626 · Mar 25, 2009

Several others already possess tools that are good enough to beat Nadal. They just need to get their head around and think like or better than Nadal. Nadal hits like there's no tomorrow. He goes for sidelines like crazy. 5th set or last point is played like fist set or first point, why?

About the tools I mention above. Tsonga can easily punish Nadal's bouncy FH shots with his (tsonga) FH whenever Nadal hits short and Nadal hits alot of short balls. Verdasco, Fed easily outserve Nadal. Murray's running is up to par with Nadal's.

GameSampras · Mar 25, 2009

user92626 said:
Several others already possess tools that are good enough to beat Nadal. They just need to get their head around and think like or better than Nadal. Nadal hits like there's no tomorrow. He goes for sidelines like crazy. 5th set or last point is played like fist set or first point, why?

About the tools I mention above. Tsonga can easily punish Nadal's bouncy FH shots with his (tsonga) FH whenever Nadal hits short and Nadal hits alot of short balls. Verdasco, Fed easily outserve Nadal. Murray's running is up to par with Nadal's.

Well they are just tools. Heck.. Nalbandian had the tools to dispatch of Fed in 04-07 and no doubt have some slams to his resume during that time period

miyagi · Mar 25, 2009

Bassus said:
I agree. In fact, I think Federer's backhand has not really cost him a match against Nadal since the 2006 FO final where the Nadal forehand to Federer backhand was definitely decisive. There is no doubt that it is a continuing factor in favor of Nadal, but I don't think Nadal has completely broken down Federer's backhand since that first FO final.

As you say, it was the mental factor that won Nadal the AO final. Federer definitely should have won that match -- Nadal was less than 100%, Federer was in great form with plenty of rest, he went up a break twice in the first set and couldn't hold it, he was unable to break in the third despite being up 0-40 in one game and 15-40 in another, and then he completely folded in the fifth despite having just won the fourth.

In short, Federer choked big time in the AO final.

The turning point in the rivalry was last year's clay court season. Leading up to that, Federer had actually had a good run against Nadal, winning three of the previous four matches, and had got the overall record to a very competitive 6-8. Then came Monte-Carlo 2008, where Federer blew a 4-0 lead in one of the sets. Then came Hamburg, where Federer blew a 5-1 lead in the first set. Then came the FO debacle.

I think that Nadal broke Federer in that Hamburg match, and ever since Nadal has had nerves of steel and an iron will in the biggest moments, while Federer has come up short everytime even when he has had one opportunity after another. This is why I find it hard to be optimistic for Federer. I just can't see him beating Nadal in a grandslam anymore.

Someone buy this man a drink

veroniquem · Mar 25, 2009

miyagi said:
If Fed continues with this attitude I doubt he can but who knows what will happen the next time they play. But to give the impression Nadal is invicible is BS....

Nobody is invincible but a peaking Nadal could be hard to beat (just like peak Fed was in 2006). We'll see.

wangs78 · Mar 25, 2009

Fed's biggest problem is his ego. I don't really blame him bc I too agree that he has all the tools (and is still physically fit enough) to easily be number one. It's his mind that's failing him. Deep down he feels he is superior to his rivals but each time he loses, that mindset puts more pressure on him when the next H2H opportunity arrives. If you think you should be beating a particular player and make that pretty clear to the public, as Fed has, each time you lose it just puts more pressure on you to win the next time you have a chance. Right now, every time Fed faces Nadal or Murray, he has a TREMENDOUS amount of pressure to win. To prove he's still the best, the GOAT contender, to prove he's right when he says things like "I know how to play Nadal (or Murray), it just came down to a few key points that I lost". His ego creates a ton of pressure for him. And too much pressure is a very bad thing. Causes tightness and therefore, unforced errors. Nadal on the other hand, always always keeps his ego in check (to the point that I find it annoying) but by doing so he dissipates any pressure for him to win. Hence during a match, he (Nadal) can focus 100% on each point, whereas Fed has to deal with the specter of losing yet another match to a rival. THIS, my friends, is Federer's biggest problem.

I think this also explains many of these inexplicable collapses that Fed has experienced lately in deciding sets of matches. The pressure simply got to be too great.

veroniquem · Mar 25, 2009

user92626 said:
Several others already possess tools that are good enough to beat Nadal. They just need to get their head around and think like or better than Nadal. Nadal hits like there's no tomorrow. He goes for sidelines like crazy. 5th set or last point is played like fist set or first point, why?

About the tools I mention above. Tsonga can easily punish Nadal's bouncy FH shots with his (tsonga) FH whenever Nadal hits short and Nadal hits alot of short balls. Verdasco, Fed easily outserve Nadal. Murray's running is up to par with Nadal's.

Maybe but all 3 (Verdasco, Murray and Tsonga) have lost their last encounter with Rafa and apart from Murray they haven't had any recent win against him either.
BTW, I've read that Rafa has already beaten all the top 10 players since the beginning of the year, kind of impressive!

user92626 · Mar 25, 2009

All of them have shot making ability, but they played like cowards and lost. Look at Murray last weekend, hit like a freaking pusher.

Nadal_Freak · Mar 25, 2009

Alright Nadal is beatable. He decides when he is beatable. Not the other player. He maybe does get intimidated and plays down to his normal level but that is his doing. He is always pumped to play Federer though. I don't expect a half effort from Nadal in those matches. Poor Fed.

veroniquem · Mar 25, 2009

user92626 said:
All of them have shot making ability, but they played like cowards and lost. Look at Murray last weekend, hit like a freaking pusher.

Murray was certainly bothered by the wind but Verdasco played the best match he could ever play and still lost. Tsonga met Nadal on a very fast surface (Rotterdam) that should have favored his attacking game 100% and still lost too.
Don't underestimate Nadal, he can really deliver when it matters, he has proven it time and again. Sure he's still beatable but noone on tour has the "key" against him right now.

edberg505 · Mar 25, 2009

veroniquem said:
Murray was certainly bothered by the wind but Verdasco played the best match he could ever play and still lost. Tsonga met Nadal on a very fast surface (Rotterdam) that should have favored his attacking game 100% and still lost too.
Don't underestimate Nadal, he can really deliver when it matters, he has proven it time and again. Sure he's still beatable but noone on tour has the "key" against him right now.

So that means he won't lose all year right?

GameSampras · Mar 25, 2009

In defense of Murray a little bit .. He was sick at he AO and certainly whatever physical illness you have, Flu, mono etc, you really start feeling it during the 5th set Im sure.

I would still perhaps favor Murray for the USO at this point. I do think he is better than Nadal on that surface. As for Fed, I dunno. I think this could be the year Fed may gets dethroned at the USO, though I think its his best chance of a slam to win at this point. Moreso than the other 3 since it is Nadal's weakest surface and he hasnt made a final there yet

federerdomination · Mar 25, 2009

Nadal_Freak said:
Alright Nadal is beatable. He decides when he is beatable. Not the other player. He maybe does get intimidated and plays down to his normal level but that is his doing. He is always pumped to play Federer though. I don't expect a half effort from Nadal in those matches. Poor Fed.

No - so ur saying the opponent means nothing?

edberg505 · Mar 25, 2009

Nadal_Freak said:
Alright Nadal is beatable. He decides when he is beatable. Not the other player. He maybe does get intimidated and plays down to his normal level but that is his doing. He is always pumped to play Federer though. I don't expect a half effort from Nadal in those matches. Poor Fed.

Yup, in that Nalbandian match it was all up to him.

Nadal_Freak · Mar 25, 2009

federerdomination said:
No - so ur saying the opponent means nothing?

Read 2 sentences after that statement. He gets intimidated by certain opponents and starts playing more defensive or gets more tight. When he starts going for his shots comfortably, it's all over for the opponent. Like the 3rd set with Nalbandian.

edberg505 · Mar 25, 2009

Nadal_Freak said:
Read 2 sentences after that statement. He gets intimidated by certain opponents and starts playing more defensive or gets more tight. When he starts going for his shots comfortably, it's all over for the opponent. Like the 3rd set with Nalbandian.

More like Nalbandian was tired and said to himself "The hell with this match!"

Nadal_Freak · Mar 25, 2009

edberg505 said:
More like Nalbandian was tired and said to himself "The hell with this match!"

Nadal played pretty poorly for the first half of the match for his standards. Yeah Nalbandian had a lot to do with it but when Nadal gets in that mode that he can't miss, it's over. Like that match against Murray.

veroniquem · Mar 25, 2009

edberg505 said:
So that means he won't lose all year right?

That's not at all what I'm saying. I said he is beatable (everybody is) but noone has the "key", meaning noone has a magic formula that would enable them to beat Nadal most of the time.

votin123 · Mar 25, 2009

miyagi said:
World number two Roger Federer said he was not going to analyse his recent defeats by Rafael Nadal and Andy Murray and believes an aggressive approach will bring him back to winning form.

Federer has not won a Masters title since 2007 and has lost his last five matches against Nadal, including the five-set thriller in the Australian Open last month.

After that disappointment, the Swiss player lost out to Britain's Murray in the semi-finals at Indian Wells last week.

"You could analyse in a big way but at the same time, it just happens sometimes. Of course I was disappointed at the way the match ended in Australia and also in Indian Wells but it is not the end of the world," he said in Miami at the Sony Ericsson Open.

"It doesn't really play on my mind a whole lot because I go out there and try to play every point as tough as I can."

Federer, who begins his campaign in Miami against American journeyman Kevin Kim, says he has only one route to beating Nadal.

"I've tried many different things against Rafa. Usually it is the aggressive playing style that makes me beat Rafa, especially on the hard courts. I haven't had many chances on hard courts against him, I've had so many more on clay," he added.

"On hard court I have to play aggressively against him. There is no way around that. I know how I have to play him. I've beaten him enough to know," said the 27-year-old.

Federer, who has 13 grand slam titles, rejected the suggestion that a back problem is seriously hampering him.

"The back is okay, I wish it was better but it's not really handicapping me when I am playing. It's not that bad," he said.

link... http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/25032009/58/atp-tour-federer-aggression-key-success.html

I AM TOTALLY 1000% AGREE WITH YOU. I saw few matches of Fed against Nadal and Murray. All i see was he kept slicing it back and wait for the lower percentage shot.

Nadal_Freak · Mar 25, 2009

Gugafan said:
Federer needs to understand that 'controlled aggression' is the way to beat Nadal. Look at Nalbandian, he is willing to rally with Nadal from the baseline and wait for an opening rather then go kamakazi with the forehand like Federer has a tedency to do.

As much as Nadal is super consistent from the baseline, he is not going to hurt you providing you keep a good length. Monfils earlier in the year had a good win against Nadal, where he was effectively willing to grind with Nadal from the baseline and then pull the trigger on anything short.

And that is because Nadal decides the match. You going for broke on everything will guarantee you a loss but controlled aggression gives you a shot to beat Nadal if he's not on his game.

votin123 · Mar 25, 2009

Gugafan said:
Federer needs to understand that 'controlled aggression' is the way to beat Nadal. Look at Nalbandian, he is willing to rally with Nadal from the baseline and wait for an opening rather then go kamakazi with the forehand like Federer has a tedency to do.

As much as Nadal is super consistent from the baseline, he is not going to hurt you providing you keep a good length. Monfils earlier in the year had a good win against Nadal, where he was effectively willing to grind with Nadal from the baseline and then pull the trigger on anything short.

Kamakazi lol Yep you can't beat Nadal if you just hitting the ball back to him. Eventually he will make you pay.

Morrissey · Mar 25, 2009

Gugafan said:
Federer needs to understand that 'controlled aggression' is the way to beat Nadal. Look at Nalbandian, he is willing to rally with Nadal from the baseline and wait for an opening rather then go kamakazi with the forehand like Federer has a tedency to do.

As much as Nadal is super consistent from the baseline, he is not going to hurt you providing you keep a good length. Monfils earlier in the year had a good win against Nadal, where he was effectively willing to grind with Nadal from the baseline and then pull the trigger on anything short.

That's a strategy he can't afford to use mainly because his backhand is not as dangerous or as steady as Nalbandian's in backcourt rallies. If Fed tries to stay patient with Nadal he's gonna be yanked around the court and his backhand will leave short balls for Nadal to pounce on. Fed has to do something that's from his own style of play, not copy someone else's. Everybody has their own style and Nalby & Fed's styles couldn't be more different.

HeadPro · Mar 25, 2009

roger has to get more emotional out there i think. he is too calm and collective. wen u see nadal out there its kinda like, how can u beat this guy? he is jumping around after sprinting for an entire set? the guy is hitting winners off my winners! federer has the respect of the tour, well deserved also, but when others step on the court with him its like they take the best shot at him! alll out u kn?
but with rafa its adifferent story, they dont have a shot. the guy is superman. so federer needs that pump up sort of thing. get fired up on the court.
also look at verdascos oz match with nadal. that was huge but also look at their last match up. 2008 french open... blow out. verdasco threw in the towel.. superman on clay dont have a chance. then switch surface lights out down under

TheTruth · Mar 25, 2009

wangs78 said:
Fed's biggest problem is his ego. I don't really blame him bc I too agree that he has all the tools (and is still physically fit enough) to easily be number one. It's his mind that's failing him. Deep down he feels he is superior to his rivals but each time he loses, that mindset puts more pressure on him when the next H2H opportunity arrives. If you think you should be beating a particular player and make that pretty clear to the public, as Fed has, each time you lose it just puts more pressure on you to win the next time you have a chance. Right now, every time Fed faces Nadal or Murray, he has a TREMENDOUS amount of pressure to win. To prove he's still the best, the GOAT contender, to prove he's right when he says things like "I know how to play Nadal (or Murray), it just came down to a few key points that I lost". His ego creates a ton of pressure for him. And too much pressure is a very bad thing. Causes tightness and therefore, unforced errors. Nadal on the other hand, always always keeps his ego in check (to the point that I find it annoying) but by doing so he dissipates any pressure for him to win. Hence during a match, he (Nadal) can focus 100% on each point, whereas Fed has to deal with the specter of losing yet another match to a rival. THIS, my friends, is Federer's biggest problem.

I think this also explains many of these inexplicable collapses that Fed has experienced lately in deciding sets of matches. The pressure simply got to be too great.

I agree with a lot of this, mostly the ego. His mouth gets him in a lot of trouble and creates undue pressure that he isn't able to back up. The more he speaks, the deeper the hole.

I don't agree that he could easily be number one, regardless of his skill set, because that backhand is too unreliable and everyone knows it. Federer also lacks patience. That's why he loses to consistent players.

Another point, Nadal has been beating Fed ever since he came on the scene, a lot of those matches weren't due to his ego or the undue pressure. In all of those matches, Fed got outplayed, or was too tired to make it to the finish line. IMO, what a lot of people are thinking is choking, is in my mind--fatigue. Nadal runs Federer all over that court. Which is why they'll never show a graphic of how many miles they run in a match against each other.

edberg505 · Mar 25, 2009

TheTruth said:
I agree with a lot of this, mostly the ego. His mouth gets him in a lot of trouble and creates undue pressure that he isn't able to back up. The more he speaks, the deeper the hole.

I don't agree that he could easily be number one, regardless of his skill set, because that backhand is too unreliable and everyone knows it. Federer also lacks patience. That's why he loses to consistent players.

Another point, Nadal has been beating Fed ever since he came on the scene, a lot of those matches weren't due to his ego or the undue pressure. In all of those matches, Fed got outplayed, or was too tired to make it to the finish line. IMO, what a lot of people are thinking is choking, is in my mind--fatigue. Nadal runs Federer all over that court. Which is why they'll never show a graphic of how many miles they run in a match against each other.

I'd be willing to bet that Nadal does more running in their matches. Simply because he is willing to run down any and everything.

TheTruth · Mar 25, 2009

edberg505 said:
I'd be willing to bet that Nadal does more running in their matches. Simply because he is willing to run down any and everything.

I don't understand why people say this. Nadal jerks Fed from side to side. Fed tries to run down everything too. I've noticed it in a lot of matches. Murray employed this same strategy in Rotterdam and Indian Wells. That's why I think Fed is fatigued in those last sets, not choking.

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