4.5jumping to open in pursuit of 1glorious atp point

yonexpurestorm · Jun 18, 2011

Theres a few threads like this, but I wanted to share my goals with my fellow TT’ers and maybe this will help me achieve them. Like the title says my ultimate goal is to get 1 atp point, but knowing this may be impossible, my more achievable goal would be to do well enough in open tournies to make tennis cost nothing for me to play.

So lets start from the beginning. I started playing tennis as a kid with my family, took some lessons and played a few juniors events. Never did well and my mom stopped entering me because she didn’t wanna pay the entry fees anymore. I was born and raised in HB Orange County and played varsity at HBHS for 3 years quitting my senior year to work. After many years of only playing a few times a year I am now 26. Last july (summer of 2010) I for some reason really got back into tennis and have been working on getting better and now I want to take my game to the next level. I try to play any tourn I can in orange county, I play on a usta team, and play in ult tennis and tennisoc.com. I am now a decent 4.5 rated player and finally found a racquet string setup that I like and doesn’t hurt my arm.

This summer I plan on entering as many open tournaments as I can, and hopefully can qualify to get a spot in a futures qualifying round. If I can qualify, my goal will be to make the rnd of 16 and obtain one beautiful atp ranking point and become something like the 1500th best player in the world(sure would be sweet to be able to tell ppl this). As of yet I have only played one open tourn and lost in the first round, but have gotten way better since finding my strings the purchase of my PSTGT and klippermate. Based on this list I am only #27 in the 4.5, but this is based on 12 months of me not doing so well. I am a much better player than I was just 1month ago.
http://tennislink.usta.com/tourname...&PlayerID=C4yZyUdHqSInufgT4fU/qQ==&Year=&C=-1

So for anyone that is interested I have compiled a list of tourns I will be playing this summer and will update as I go along. Ill update after each round of the tourn and maybe some mile stones as I go along. I might even keep a public record of how much I spend on tennis expenses and how much I win to see if I can achieve my play tennis for free goal.

http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/Draws/EventDraw.aspx?T=99887&E=66&D=M&S=F
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/Draws/EventDraw.aspx?T=100143&E=3
These are my most recent tourns, but lost in the semis. The seal beach tourn I played a league match right before my semi match and just ran out of gas in the 2nd set.

Upcoming:
2011 Jackie Tatum Classic
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/TournamentHome/Tournament.aspx?T=100152
Lakewood Open
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/TournamentHome/Tournament.aspx?T=100158
125th SCTA Open ( this would be sweet to win because winner get WC into UCLA atp250, highly unlikely though.
Santa Ana Open
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/TournamentHome/Tournament.aspx?T=100167
Claremont Futures WC
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/TournamentHome/Tournament.aspx?T=94282
Michael Change Tennis Classic or Cerritos Open (same weekend)
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/TournamentHome/Tournament.aspx?T=108415
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/TournamentHome/Tournament.aspx?T=104685
Laguna Niguel Futures Qualifier
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/TournamentHome/Tournament.aspx?T=100176
Huntington Beach Open (my personal favorite because playing site is a block away)
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/TournamentHome/Tournament.aspx?T=100193
Costa Mesa Futures Pre-Qualifying
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/TournamentHome/Tournament.aspx?T=100191
Santa Monica (maybe if im up for the drive)
http://tennislink.usta.com/Tournaments/TournamentHome/Tournament.aspx?T=100199

NLBwell · Jun 18, 2011

Since at the moment you seem to be a high 4.5 - transitioning into 5.0, why don't you enter some 5.0 tournaments where you will be competitive and not as many open/pre-qualifying. Yes, it will give you some knowledge of the competition getting whacked 6-0, 6-1 or something like that once in a while by a true open or futures player, but it will probably help you develop more playing 5.0 people who are just a little better than you where you can have a competitive match. Yes, you may get a 4.0 you can beat up on in an open tournament, but that isn't helping your game. Once you start doing well in 5.0s, transition to more opens and less 5.0 tournaments.
Going from 4.5 to beating 6.0s is a big leap to take all at once. If you really want to do this, it's going to take a lot of hard work and dedication - do you have a life other than tennis? (wifes and such frown on this)

Photoshop · Jun 19, 2011

yonexpurestorm said:
This summer I plan on entering as many open tournaments as I can, and hopefully can qualify to get a spot in a futures qualifying round. If I can qualify, my goal will be to make the rnd of 16 and obtain one beautiful atp ranking point and become something like the 1500th best player in the world(sure would be sweet to be able to tell ppl this).

I'm actually curious - how do you exactly qualify for a spot in a Futures qualifying round? Do you have to have a national/sectional ranking or something? and how many people from the qualifying round get a spot in the main draw? and how big are futures tournaments usually, in terms of the draw size? 32, 64? (guess that depends on location and time of the year?)

I'm a 4.5 too but earning an ATP point has never even crossed my mind for a split second, ever. There are just way too many people much much better than me. I couldn't even win an intramural tournament at my school, and there're probably hundreds of people better than me in my town alone.

I don't know... maybe it's just me but I don't think it's anything to be proud of (and I wouldn't tell anyone either) even if by some freak accident I won 1 ATP point in a 16 people tournament in Africa or something. Sure it'd be a good conversation starter or a good pick-up line (heyyy i'm a professional tennis player

) but I just don't think I could say that with a straight face.

Also can you imagine all the people who would challenge you to play a set?? haha...:lol::shock:

benny444 · Jun 19, 2011

Hey mate
I will also be playing in the Jackie Tatum Classic and the Lakewood Open. If you are interested, do you want to play doubles with me? as i am in search for a partner for both tourny's

yonexpurestorm · Jun 19, 2011

Since at the moment you seem to be a high 4.5 - transitioning into 5.0, why don't you enter some 5.0 tournaments where you will be competitive and not as many open/pre-qualifying. Yes, it will give you some knowledge of the competition getting whacked 6-0, 6-1 or something like that once in a while by a true open or futures player, but it will probably help you develop more playing 5.0 people who are just a little better than you where you can have a competitive match. Yes, you may get a 4.0 you can beat up on in an open tournament, but that isn't helping your game. Once you start doing well in 5.0s, transition to more opens and less 5.0 tournaments.Going from 4.5 to beating 6.0s is a big leap to take all at once. If you really want to do this, it's going to take a lot of hard work and dedication - do you have a life other than tennis? (wifes and such frown on this)

i actually wish i could do this. most of the tourns here in orange county have a good draw size for 4.5 and open, but the 5.0 or 5.5 are rarely over 5 ppl. this is because the 5.0+ ppl will enter the open or sandbag into a 4.5 tourn. the latest tourn i played in seal beach actually had a decent 5.5 because there was no open. i didnt expect this or i prob would have tried 5.5. its usually not worth the money if theres only 5 ppl. since i dont have any kids i try and play 5 times a week, but finding good competition is hard, and i never really get a chance to just drill which is big. my gf isnt too happy about all the tennis i play, but she knows it makes me happy.

I'm actually curious - how do you exactly qualify for a spot in a Futures qualifying round? Do you have to have a national/sectional ranking or something? and how many people from the qualifying round get a spot in the main draw? and how big are futures tournaments usually, in terms of the draw size? 32, 64? (guess that depends on location and time of the year?)

I'm a 4.5 too but earning an ATP point has never even crossed my mind for a split second, ever. There are just way too many people much much better than me. I couldn't even win an intramural tournament at my school, and there're probably hundreds of people better than me in my town alone.

usually the futures tourns will have 32 in the main draw and i think like 32 in the qualy draw where only 4 ppl will get a Q spot into the main draw. the qualies u need a ranking either itf or locally to be directly accepted. otherwise you will need to play a tourn like the costa mesa tourn with the link in the orignal post to qualify for the qualifying draw.
as for earning at atp point, i would be very proud of this. in order to get one atp point you need to make the round of 16 in the main draw of a futures event. to do this you would need to win the costa mesa prequalifying, then win 3 or 4 matches in the qualifying, and then one match in the main draw. not an easy feat. i wouldnt tell people bragging about it, more in a novelty way saying your considered the 1500th best player in the world. however pursuing one point would be more for something to strive towards so i can train and feel like its for something.

Hey mate
I will also be playing in the Jackie Tatum Classic and the Lakewood Open. If you are interested, do you want to play doubles with me? as i am in search for a partner for both tourny's

i might be able to play some doubles in the lakewood. i already have a partner for the jackie tatum if the doubs draw gets large enough. once the tourn gets a little closer and we see how large the draw gets ill let you know. but im always down to hit for practice if ur ever in the long beach orange county area

ethon · Jun 19, 2011

Good luck! This looks like a great goal to work towards

benny444 · Jun 19, 2011

Sounds good mate, i will be staying in Long Beach from the 6th til the 13th July for the Lakewood open, so yeah i'd be up for some hits when im there.

jdubbs · Jun 20, 2011

Ok, lets be honest. This is a very unrealistic goal. There's no way you can go from a 4.5 to going through a futures qualifying to get to a main draw of a pro tournament and win a match there to get a point.

The level at these tournaments is so high...you have no idea. A 4.5 will get crushed, even a 5.0 or 5.5 will lose every time. And I mean every time.

I know of former pros around your age or older that have had ATP points in the past and still consistently lose at qualifying rounds of challengers and futures. And I mean lose 6-1, 6-0. Those days are gone for you.

Keep playing a lot of tennis, try to consistently win at the 4.5 level. Then progress to 5.0.

But you're 26, not 16. You don't play and train 8 hours a day like the aspirational pros do. ATP points are out of the question.

A better goal would be to try to compete and win cash at Open tournaments one day.

gregor.b · Jun 20, 2011

jdubbs said:
Ok, lets be honest. This is a very unrealistic goal. There's no way you can go from a 4.5 to going through a futures qualifying to get to a main draw of a pro tournament and win a match there to get a point.

The level at these tournaments is so high...you have no idea. A 4.5 will get crushed, even a 5.0 or 5.5 will lose every time. And I mean every time.

I know of former pros around your age or older that have had ATP points in the past and still consistently lose at qualifying rounds of challengers and futures. And I mean lose 6-1, 6-0. Those days are gone for you.

Keep playing a lot of tennis, try to consistently win at the 4.5 level. Then progress to 5.0.

But you're 26, not 16. You don't play and train 8 hours a day like the aspirational pros do. ATP points are out of the question.

A better goal would be to try to compete and win cash at Open tournaments one day.

Ouch!.......

onehandbh · Jun 20, 2011

jdubbs said:
Ok, lets be honest. This is a very unrealistic goal. There's no way you can go from a 4.5 to going through a futures qualifying to get to a main draw of a pro tournament and win a match there to get a point.

The level at these tournaments is so high...you have no idea. A 4.5 will get crushed, even a 5.0 or 5.5 will lose every time. And I mean every time.

I know of former pros around your age or older that have had ATP points in the past and still consistently lose at qualifying rounds of challengers and futures. And I mean lose 6-1, 6-0. Those days are gone for you.

Keep playing a lot of tennis, try to consistently win at the 4.5 level. Then progress to 5.0.

But you're 26, not 16. You don't play and train 8 hours a day like the aspirational pros do. ATP points are out of the question.

A better goal would be to try to compete and win cash at Open tournaments one day.

There is some truth to this. You'd have to beat someone like Jeff Tarango
who still sometimes plays this pre-qualifying open tournaments.

GRANITECHIEF · Jun 20, 2011

I'd be more afraid of getting slapped by Jeff T's wife than playing against him.

darrinbaker00 · Jun 20, 2011

GRANITECHIEF said:
I'd be more afraid of getting slapped by Jeff T's wife than playing against him.

They aren't together anymore.

snark · Jun 21, 2011

jdubbs said:
Ok, lets be honest. This is a very unrealistic goal. There's no way you can go from a 4.5 to going through a futures qualifying to get to a main draw of a pro tournament and win a match there to get a point.

The level at these tournaments is so high...you have no idea. A 4.5 will get crushed, even a 5.0 or 5.5 will lose every time. And I mean every time.

I know of former pros around your age or older that have had ATP points in the past and still consistently lose at qualifying rounds of challengers and futures. And I mean lose 6-1, 6-0. Those days are gone for you.

Keep playing a lot of tennis, try to consistently win at the 4.5 level. Then progress to 5.0.

But you're 26, not 16. You don't play and train 8 hours a day like the aspirational pros do. ATP points are out of the question.

A better goal would be to try to compete and win cash at Open tournaments one day.

Come on, a guy can dream. He is a good player and will be better in the future. It is a long shot but not impossible.

goober · Jun 21, 2011

snark said:
Come on, a guy can dream. He is a good player and will be better in the future. It is a long shot but not impossible.

Crushing pipe dreams are part of the TW experience

Well if you think this is bad go to the travel forum where a nice long thread about some 43 year old guy is basically trying to do the same thing and get a ATP point -but he has been only playing tennis for 2-3 years.

Devilito · Jun 21, 2011

snark said:
Come on, a guy can dream. He is a good player and will be better in the future. It is a long shot but not impossible.

jdubbs is right, it's impossible. A 50/50 record in 5.0 events will be difficult. Open events you might be looking at 1 win for every 5 losses, at a higher level cash Open it's more like 1 win for every 10-20 losses and at the Futures level it would be %100 losses. Even if you win 1 match due to injury you need to squeeze out 3-4 wins in a row to even have a sniff at 1 point. Can a mid 20s 4.5 improve? Of course. You can bust your ass and eventually have fun playing some good quality Open level events. But the jump from a standard Open to Futures is huge. If you’re a 4.5 rated 14 year old you might have a shot.

jdubbs · Jun 21, 2011

I don't mean to sound crass or try to crush your dreams. I played a money open tournament a few weeks ago. I was coming in playing great tennis, crushed a 4.5 at my club that week, so had hopes I could at least get a few games. And, in fact, I did win my first match against a local high school player.

But in the 2nd round, a local junior college player toyed with me before destroying me completely, 6-0, 6-0. And he went on to get destroyed in the next match. And THAT winner got destroyed in the next one by a guy who used to have ATP points. And the former pro then lost in straight sets in the semi's.

And none of these guys would be able to win a futures first round match, or even get through the qualies. Those guys live and breathe tennis, training every day for hours with no other distractions.

So play a lot and progress, and then try your hand at money open tournaments, and you will see what I'm talking about.

yonexpurestorm · Jun 21, 2011

Believe me, i know its almost an impossibility to win an atp point. i dont see it as something that has a high percentage of happening. to me, its more like a pipe dream. something to work toward. obviously i have goals and objectives that i want to accomplish that are more achievable than winning an atp point. but after each objective there is always another, so yes i set the bar high. i did this in order to keep myself trying to improve my game to the next level. and if (big if) i ever do win a futures match i will set the bar even higher.
i told my girlfriend that my main goal was to try and win enough money playing tennis just to cover the expenses( strings, entry fees, racquets, shoes, grips, etc.) and this alone will be difficult. i have started and income statement for just tennis expenditures. but without dreams and goals you cant achieve anything of importance.
i knew when i started this post i would have a lot of people telling me its impossible. if i saw a thready like this i would probably tell the guy hes crazy too. either way my tennis is going to improve by leaps and bounds, i will have a fun time doing it, i will get into great shape, and maybe even win a little cash to cover my tennis expense. and for the people reading this thread, they might enjoy watching my progress as i crash and burn or watch me become so awsomely great at tennis and see my last update after the US open i just won. either way i think it will be fun to track my tournament experiences.

snark · Jun 21, 2011

Devilito said:
jdubbs is right, it's impossible. A 50/50 record in 5.0 events will be difficult. Open events you might be looking at 1 win for every 5 losses, at a higher level cash Open it's more like 1 win for every 10-20 losses and at the Futures level it would be %100 losses. Even if you win 1 match due to injury you need to squeeze out 3-4 wins in a row to even have a sniff at 1 point. Can a mid 20s 4.5 improve? Of course. You can bust your ass and eventually have fun playing some good quality Open level events. But the jump from a standard Open to Futures is huge. If you’re a 4.5 rated 14 year old you might have a shot.

I disagree. It depends on how much time you are willing to put into training/conditioning. The guy is a strong 4.5 (maybe close to 5.0) at 26 years old. If he can spend 3-4 hours per day training (difficult given the usual life constraints, but certainly possible) he could be a strong 5.5 within 1-2 years. At that level an ATP point is not out of the question.

Again, I agree that it is unlikely, but not impossible.

snark · Jun 21, 2011

goober said:
Crushing pipe dreams are part of the TW experience

Well if you think this is bad go to the travel forum where a nice long thread about some 43 year old guy is basically trying to do the same thing and get a ATP point -but he has been only playing tennis for 2-3 years.

Now that IS a long shot!

snark · Jun 21, 2011

yonexpurestorm said:
Believe me, i know its almost an impossibility to win an atp point. i dont see it as something that has a high percentage of happening. to me, its more like a pipe dream. something to work toward. obviously i have goals and objectives that i want to accomplish that are more achievable than winning an atp point. but after each objective there is always another, so yes i set the bar high. i did this in order to keep myself trying to improve my game to the next level. and if (big if) i ever do win a futures match i will set the bar even higher.
i told my girlfriend that my main goal was to try and win enough money playing tennis just to cover the expenses( strings, entry fees, racquets, shoes, grips, etc.) and this alone will be difficult. i have started and income statement for just tennis expenditures. but without dreams and goals you cant achieve anything of importance.
i knew when i started this post i would have a lot of people telling me its impossible. if i saw a thready like this i would probably tell the guy hes crazy too. either way my tennis is going to improve by leaps and bounds, i will have a fun time doing it, i will get into great shape, and maybe even win a little cash to cover my tennis expense. and for the people reading this thread, they might enjoy watching my progress as i crash and burn or watch me become so awsomely great at tennis and see my last update after the US open i just won. either way i think it will be fun to track my tournament experiences.

Go for it, man. Try hard and if it does not work, so be it. If you listen to every doubter, you would never get anywhere.

goober · Jun 21, 2011

snark said:
I disagree. It depends on how much time you are willing to put into training/conditioning. The guy is a strong 4.5 (maybe close to 5.0) at 26 years old. If he can spend 3-4 hours per day training (difficult given the usual life constraints, but certainly possible) he could be a strong 5.5 within 1-2 years. At that level an ATP point is not out of the question.

Again, I agree that it is unlikely, but not impossible.

Looking at his record he does not look like a strong 4.5 close to 5.0. He looks like middle of the road 4.5. The main thing I think he has working against him is he does not have a strong tennis background. He was not a strong junior and did not play college tennis and pretty much started tennis again after a long layoff. At this point he would not just need time but also a lot of money from coaching because he likely has some technical flaws. As you get higher up the NTRP ladder it gets harder not easier to move up levels. If he were a former D1 player that took off 5 years and started playing again at age 26, I would give him a chance, but basically 4.5 rec level player trying to do it is a whole different animal.

precision2b · Jun 21, 2011

Go for it! Am interested to see expenses vs what you win. Keep us posted and GOOD LUCK!!!

LeeD · Jun 21, 2011

Yeah, go for it.
How you do depends on your opponent's skills, and you being a rising 4.5 or a falling 4.5.
Do you have weapons? Are you consistent only?
You'll get pummelled as said, most likely, but you can draw some duffers too.
I wonder if you get any points for going a few rounds in Q's? In 1977 and '78, I went 4 rounds in a Q as a B or 4.5 player, lefty, 2hbh, big serve, quick at net.

onehandbh · Jun 21, 2011

If making enough money to cover your tennis expenditures is one of your
goals here are a few easier ways:

- buy a stringer and string your own racquets and other people's racquets.

- play money matches by playing matches for money against people in local
parks. This might involve a little sandbagging at times.

- come up with some sort of tennis invention or tennis related idea and
make money from it.

nevertheless, nothing wrong with setting high goals to drive you.
btw, if you're ever up in LA, we can have a hit.

jdubbs · Jun 21, 2011

You'd be better off spending that time getting really proficient in your real career, you'll end up making a lot more money that way. Go "pro" in your chosen career path (or pick one soon) and it will pay off in spades. Spend all that time trying to become a pro tennis player (which you'll never become), and there's an opportunity cost.

It's your life, of course, and you can have outsized goals, but if you come on here and look for advice, expect to face a little reality.

LeeD · Jun 21, 2011

I sorta feel sorry for all you people who forego your dreams to pursue the path of gathering the mighty dollar.
Sure, you get some cash in your old age, if you live that long. But on your deathbed, you will still be saying..."what might have been, if...."...
I say, pursue your dreams. There's plenty of time and ways to make the mighty dollar later in life....or not. It don't really matter.

spacediver · Jun 21, 2011

LeeD said:
I sorta feel sorry for all you people who forego your dreams to pursue the path of gathering the mighty dollar.
Sure, you get some cash in your old age, if you live that long. But on your deathbed, you will still be saying..."what might have been, if...."...
I say, pursue your dreams. There's plenty of time and ways to make the mighty dollar later in life....or not. It don't really matter.

+1 ................

Baxter · Jun 21, 2011

I say go for it. Weirder things have happened. You da man!

okdude1992 · Jun 21, 2011

Just realize that the gap between good 4.5 and collecting an ATP point is pretty massive. But good luck, OP It can't hurt to try. Mad props if you do pull it off.

yonexpurestorm · Jun 21, 2011

I disagree. It depends on how much time you are willing to put into training/conditioning. The guy is a strong 4.5 (maybe close to 5.0) at 26 years old. If he can spend 3-4 hours per day training (difficult given the usual life constraints, but certainly possible) he could be a strong 5.5 within 1-2 years. At that level an ATP point is not out of the question.

ive been playing about 5 times a week getting 2-3 sets in each time. sometimes just hitting working on my backhand. last sat i actually played a match at 11, finished at 1. jumped into the car drove 30 mins to start another match at 1:30 and finished around 3:30. really tired after that. i do work 9-5, but i get some good playing time around 6-9 everynight. i mainly need to work on my conditioning. i have good stamina, but need to eat healthier. i could drop about 15lbs.

Looking at his record he does not look like a strong 4.5 close to 5.0. He looks like middle of the road 4.5. The main thing I think he has working against him is he does not have a strong tennis background. He was not a strong junior and did not play college tennis and pretty much started tennis again after a long layoff. At this point he would not just need time but also a lot of money from coaching because he likely has some technical flaws. As you get higher up the NTRP ladder it gets harder not easier to move up levels. If he were a former D1 player that took off 5 years and started playing again at age 26, I would give him a chance, but basically 4.5 rec level player trying to do it is a whole different animal.

i really do wish i had played in college, but i just didnt have the drive then. i was more focused on school. my technical skills are actually the reason why i was always able to jump on the court and rip a forehand. my parents paid for lessons starting when i was 4. i dont know when i stopped, but tennis has always come naturally to me because the correct mechanics were drilled into my head when i was very young. my one huge glaring flaw is my backhand. i just cant seem to hit passing bh shots on the run. i know the mechanics, but it just needs practice to get the muscle memory down. my fh however is my main weapon. i feel i can hit a winner from anywhere on the court with it.

Go for it! Am interested to see expenses vs what you win. Keep us posted and GOOD LUCK!!!

i decided i will keep a record of my expenses vs income on this thread just to make this thread a little more interesting. so starting in june i have spent $88 on a reel of polystar energy 17, $36 and 33$ on the entry fees into the usc tourny and seal beach tourny. i did win 50$ in the usc tourny though. so i need to win $107 more to be at par.

Yeah, go for it.
How you do depends on your opponent's skills, and you being a rising 4.5 or a falling 4.5.
Do you have weapons? Are you consistent only?
You'll get pummelled as said, most likely, but you can draw some duffers too.
I wonder if you get any points for going a few rounds in Q's? In 1977 and '78, I went 4 rounds in a Q as a B or 4.5 player, lefty, 2hbh, big serve, quick at net.

id say im rising as a 4.5. my game is getting better everyday. the main reason i did so bad last summer was i was still using my racquet from junior high, it was some prince OS 110 old man racquet. my brother lost my rd-ti 70 88sqinch from highschool. i just recently finally found a racquet that doesnt give me tennis elbow, but has good pop and spin. my weapon is my forehand. i use sw grip and get a lot of topspin. weakness is my 2hbh, i mainly play defense and am always looking to get a forehand to control the point. my serve is pretty big, second could use more pace. overheads are good, net game good. i could use better footwork on my bh to improve consistency though.

@onehandbh - i guess thats a different way to look at it. lol.

You'd be better off spending that time getting really proficient in your real career, you'll end up making a lot more money that way. Go "pro" in your chosen career path (or pick one soon) and it will pay off in spades. Spend all that time trying to become a pro tennis player (which you'll never become), and there's an opportunity cost.

i have a finance degree and work in corporate accounting. i dont plan on quitting my day job (literally). but i need to get my competitive juices going and i enjoy playing tennis. it is tough working full time and trying to fit in a lot of practice, but it is possible with the right dedication.

goober · Jun 22, 2011

yonexpurestorm said:
ive been playing about 5 times a week getting 2-3 sets in each time. sometimes just hitting working on my backhand. last sat i actually played a match at 11, finished at 1. jumped into the car drove 30 mins to start another match at 1:30 and finished around 3:30. really tired after that. i do work 9-5, but i get some good playing time around 6-9 everynight. i mainly need to work on my conditioning. i have good stamina, but need to eat healthier. i could drop about 15lbs.

i have a finance degree and work in corporate accounting. i dont plan on quitting my day job (literally). but i need to get my competitive juices going and i enjoy playing tennis. it is tough working full time and trying to fit in a lot of practice, but it is possible with the right dedication.

I think you are putting the cart before the horse. You are talking about ATP Points when you should be having small goals and revise them as you go along.

"I want to be 5.0" Then when you actually get there, "I want to win an open tournament", then "I want to dominate Open tournaments in Socal. " If you actually reach this point (and that's a big IF), it would be realistic to start thinking about trying to get ATP points. Talking about ATP points when you have not done anything noteworthy in Tennis at any level just seems very premature.

BTW playing 5 days/week after work and on weekends is great. I wish I could do that, but it doesn't necessarily mean you going to improve to the level you want especially if you are just playing sets. I know plenty of working adult 4.5s that play 4-6 days a week. Guess what after many years they are still 4.5s.

jdubbs · Jun 22, 2011

I think that if you're truly serious about this, you need to quit your job and pay for a full time academy/coach. The guys you'll be competing with in the qualies for main draw futures tournaments all practice full time. Out of a typical 8-10 hours of training per day, only 1-2 hours is spent playing tennis, the rest is on conditioning and drills.
Even if you go into debt initially, your winnings at Open and Futures tournaments should more than pay for the cost.

If you're not willing to take this step, sadly, you're just another in a long line of delusional rec players wanting praise for trying to "go pro." It's disrespectful to the profession to try to assume you can get there part time. At least the 41 year old in the other thread was trying to do this full time.

OrangePower · Jun 22, 2011

^^^^

C'mon, give the OP a break...

From his posts it sounds like he realizes that the chances of him getting an ATP point are slim at best. But if having that as a long-term goal is motiviation to get in better shape, practice harder, and play better, then why not? As long as he is not sacrificing other parts of his life (which it does not sound like), and as long as he can deal with the disappointment if it doesn't happen.

Reading the OPs first post, he's not looking for advice, suggestions, etc... he just wants to share the experience.

To the OP: Go for it man!!

Carlito · Jun 22, 2011

His only legitimate change of getting a point is to get a doubles partner and get it playing doubles. Singles is going to be virtually impossible unless he gets really good really fast and gets a lucky draw.

goober · Jun 22, 2011

Carlito said:
His only legitimate change of getting a point is to get a doubles partner and get it playing doubles. Singles is going to be virtually impossible unless he gets really good really fast and get a lucky draw.

True- one guy got Kevin Kim to be his partner and he secured himself a wildcard and then won a round in a retirement. He is a 40 something rec player with ATP points

snark · Jun 22, 2011

yonexpurestorm said:
ive been playing about 5 times a week getting 2-3 sets in each time. sometimes just hitting working on my backhand. last sat i actually played a match at 11, finished at 1. jumped into the car drove 30 mins to start another match at 1:30 and finished around 3:30. really tired after that. i do work 9-5, but i get some good playing time around 6-9 everynight. i mainly need to work on my conditioning. i have good stamina, but need to eat healthier. i could drop about 15lbs.

I think conditioning is key to playing at high level. I figure what separates me (a solid 4.0) from a solid 4.5 is about 25 pounds

jdubbs · Jun 22, 2011

Look, I know the feeling. When I won the first match at the big Open tournament a few weeks ago to a walkover and then won the 2nd against a local highschooler, I made it to the weekend rounds with the legit players.

It was pretty cool sitting in the lounge chatting with the other guys who were playing futures and challengers this summer, and in walk a couple of people from my local club who were just there to watch the matches, and they were like "YOU made it to the weekend? YOU play today?" because I definitely didn't belong, but it was fun to play the role.

But that's a far cry from actually getting ATP points! There's no way a 4.5 or 5.0 would get there unless he's 14 and on the path. It just doesn't work that way in tennis.

LeeD · Jun 22, 2011

It might work if you game includes at least one outstanding shot, you're on your way up past 4.5, luck is on your side in the draw, and luck that you're playing well.
But few 4.5's have one 6.5 stroke, much less two. And luck can be a fickle partner, as it often turns AGAINST you when you need or want it the most.

precision2b · Jun 22, 2011

OrangePower said:
^^^^

C'mon, give the OP a break...

From his posts it sounds like he realizes that the chances of him getting an ATP point are slim at best. But if having that as a long-term goal is motiviation to get in better shape, practice harder, and play better, then why not? As long as he is not sacrificing other parts of his life (which it does not sound like), and as long as he can deal with the disappointment if it doesn't happen.

Reading the OPs first post, he's not looking for advice, suggestions, etc... he just wants to share the experience.

To the OP: Go for it man!!

well said...

snark · Jun 22, 2011

jdubbs said:
But that's a far cry from actually getting ATP points! There's no way a 4.5 or 5.0 would get there unless he's 14 and on the path. It just doesn't work that way in tennis.

My grand uncle took up tennis in his mid 40's and became a very competitive player in a few years (that was a long time ago). He was pretty athletic, but nothing more than that. I do not see why a player who is already very solid, could not become much better with proper conditioning and practice. He is not talking about becoming a pro, just getting one ATP point. Commitment, persistence and some luck is all he needs. One potential snag is that proper coaching may be necessary for him to improve beyond a certain point.

Photoshop · Jun 22, 2011

snark said:
My grand uncle took up tennis in his mid 40's and became a very competitive player in a few years (that was a long time ago). He was pretty athletic, but nothing more than that. I do not see why a player who is already very solid, could not become much better with proper conditioning and practice. He is not talking about becoming a pro, just getting one ATP point. Commitment, persistence and some luck is all he needs. One potential snag is that proper coaching may be necessary for him to improve beyond a certain point.

You make it sound like one ATP point is an easy feat. I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer but he's not even winning 4.5 tournaments yet. nothing wrong with setting a high goal and working toward it, but let's be realistic here. win 4.5 tournaments first, then open, then national tournaments, then Futures qualies...

It says on the bottom of Talk Tennis main page there are 14,392 active members here. I don't think it's too far off to say there probably are 1500 people better than OP on this site alone.

LeeD · Jun 22, 2011

I'd say closer to 100.
As a B player, about 4.5 nowadaze, with a big lefty serve, unusual quickness, and strong 2hbh, I went multiple rounds in 2 different Q's for the pro tourney in SanFrancisco in back to back years.
You just gotta get lucky with the draw, get lucky with one sick player, play one good match, and you're in the finals to make the main. TWICE this happenned to me.
But that 4.5 player had better have a real serve, or at least a couple of real weapons that match up well with 6.0's.

yonexpurestorm · Jun 23, 2011

i wont be quitting my job anytime soon. im not really trying to go pro, just trying to get one point. id say its around 10000 to 1 odds i can get one this summer, so i dont have my hopes up. maybe next summer when the costa mesa, claremont, and irvine futures roll around again ill have a standing chance of at least getting a few rounds in qualifying if i work hard all year( which i plan on doing). im still going to try this summer just for the experience and fun of playing top notch people.

i was actually reading some of that other 40 yr old guys thread. he sounds pretty delusional. i mean im not going to drop everything and train for 6months in some other country banking that i can make it as a pro. to me, this is just something that can get my competitiveness going and motivate me to play 5days a week.

so here are a few short term goals that i want to achieve first. i already had them i just didnt put them all in my original post. first i need to finally select a string setup. i chose polystar energy 17, but need to decide on a multi or if ima go with a full bed. second win a round or two in an open tourn. next drop the 15 pounds needed to improve stamina and court quickness. next work on backand so as to not alway be defensive with it. next win an open tourn and after that win a few in order to help pay for tennis equip. also during this period i should be able to win the 6.0 ult tennis league. next win a round in a futures qualifier. and after this with a little luck ill should have standing chance at a point.

It might work if you game includes at least one outstanding shot, you're on your way up past 4.5, luck is on your side in the draw, and luck that you're playing well.
But few 4.5's have one 6.5 stroke, much less two. And luck can be a fickle partner, as it often turns AGAINST you when you need or want it the most.

my forehand is my best shot. i ussually like to say i have a 6.0 forhand and a 3.5 backhand and i average out to around 4.5. ( my backhand is better than 3.5, but its just a funny remark i tell ppl) my main goal in all my training is to bring my backhand up to a higher level so it doesnt get attacked all day. once i do this i think i might have a standing chance at some of my goals.

jdubbs · Jun 23, 2011

One thing I think you need to do is get some high level coaching/lessons to work on various parts of your game.

I took 5 lessons from a great pro and after my lesson yesterday, he remarked that I had made a huge improvement from the first one 6 weeks ago. I changed my serve, my backhand improved, my volleying was much more solid and my fitness improved considerably. I've never been more confident in my game and had some recent wins over 4.5's that I never would have beat even a couple of months ago.

A "3.5" backhand isn't going to improve by just playing, you need to revamp it completely. If you're really serious, you need to be an open book and soak up some knowledge from pros. The key is to find a good pro that will help.

alb1 · Jun 23, 2011

I think you should play the open tournaments, enjoy the experience ( I got to play against some UGA players, and guys that were training at Bolleteri's back in the day) but also keep playing some 4.5 tourneys and start winning them. That way the " I have nothing to lose attitude" you have in the opens gets some balance with playing under pressure against people you should beat or can beat if you play at your best. When you dominate the 4.5's then play only open events. What you really need is some guys to consistently drill and practice with who are better than you to help you improve.

From the results of a guy (5.0 to 5.5 range) I know that is currently playing some Futures qualifying tourneys, I would concentrate on getting yourself to the point where you are competitve with the better players in the opens before pursuing the ATP point.

goran_ace · Jun 23, 2011

yonexpurestorm said:
my forehand is my best shot. i ussually like to say i have a 6.0 forhand and a 3.5 backhand and i average out to around 4.5. ( my backhand is better than 3.5, but its just a funny remark i tell ppl) my main goal in all my training is to bring my backhand up to a higher level so it doesnt get attacked all day. once i do this i think i might have a standing chance at some of my goals.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you're going to need a lot more than that. What you think is a strong '6.0' forehand at 4.5 is nothing special at 5.0/5.5. They can hit just as hard as you and play against bigger hitters than you on a regular basis, so no one will be afraid of your forehand. also, even if you improve your backhand, if it is still that much weaker than your forehand you might never get to see a ball hit to your forehand you can hit out on unless you are going for broke. Again, I can't stress it enough that tennis at high levels is not just about ballstriking. Even at 4.5 you can get away with poor point construction and compensate with speed/athelticism, or you can simply outhit or outlast your opponent. The quality of the strokes at 5.0+ is that much greater, not just hitting harder, but the fact that their strokes will also be more consistent and more accurate. Point construction is going to be that much more important.

I know guys who can hit the ball a ton off both sides, which makes them look awesome beating the tar out of 4.0's, but they don't know how to construct points against better players who can stand in there and trade shots with them and know how to execute a strategy. This is how people plateau at a level.

snark · Jun 23, 2011

Photoshop said:
You make it sound like one ATP point is an easy feat. I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer but he's not even winning 4.5 tournaments yet. nothing wrong with setting a high goal and working toward it, but let's be realistic here. win 4.5 tournaments first, then open, then national tournaments, then Futures qualies...

I don't think it is easy at all. In fact, I believe, it is very hard.
But it is quite different from setting a truly impossible goal like, say, winning Wimbledon.

If you don't aim high and put a good effort, you will achieve little. The OP seems to be willing to put time and effort into this particular project, so why not!

kimbahpnam · Jun 23, 2011

impossible, but good luck

Fedace · Jun 23, 2011

If you win the US open qualifying this summer, i am pretty sure you will get a point...

goran_ace · Jun 23, 2011

Fedace said:
If you win the US open qualifying this summer, i am pretty sure you will get a point...

I was about to bring that up but was unsure about the current point system. The national playoffs only get a you WC into the qualies of the US Open. Under the old ATP system losing in the first round of qualies got you 1 point, not quite sure how it works now, but I think you have to make it all the way through qualifying and then you get a 25 point bonus over your main draw results. Anyone know for sure?

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