The TT Football Club

jimbo333 · Mar 19, 2013

Ross K said:
If it's all just to get back at Roy, then that's totally lame. As I said before though, I'm more concerned that we're still playing all these old timers. I mean Ferdinand was brilliant in his day, world class... but that was like years and years ago.

Yes Ross, I share your concern as well. I said after the last World Cup that we should never pick Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerrard and Rooney again. They, for what ever reason have not preformed at Tournament level, they havn't played as a team, so from now on why not pick some different players.

As you say though, who are England going to pick instead?

(and in hindsight maybe pick Rooney again, but he has been terrible for England in the past, so maybe not. We need players that really want to play for England at the very least, otherwise we ain't gonna win anything in my opinion)

Ross K · Mar 19, 2013

jimbo333 said:
Yes Ross, I share your concern as well. I said after the last World Cup that we should never pick Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerrard and Rooney again. They, for what ever reason have not preformed at Tournament level, they havn't played as a team, so from now on why not pick some different players.

As you say though, who are England going to pick instead?

(and in hindsight maybe pick Rooney again, but he has been terrible for England in the past, so maybe not. We need players that really want to play for England at the very least, otherwise we ain't gonna win anything in my opinion)

+ 2 on that statement, Jim! Absolutely with you there mate! And you know one of my pet themes or whatever on this thread every Euros or World Cup is just how incredibly overrated and underwhelming Rooney is. He was nothing short of dire in the last WC.

Feña14 · Mar 19, 2013

jimbo333 said:
Yes Ross, I share your concern as well. I said after the last World Cup that we should never pick Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerrard and Rooney again. They, for what ever reason have not preformed at Tournament level, they havn't played as a team, so from now on why not pick some different players.

As you say though, who are England going to pick instead?

(and in hindsight maybe pick Rooney again, but he has been terrible for England in the past, so maybe not. We need players that really want to play for England at the very least, otherwise we ain't gonna win anything in my opinion)

I agree, it was time to bring some new players in. The only two I would of kept around would of been Lampard and Rooney. Terry and Ferdinand are great defenders, even today, but I feel we have a bit of depth there with Jones, Cahill, Smalling, Dawson, Jagielka, Caulker etc..

Midfield, we don't have a whole lot to fall back on. Wilshere is always injured, Cleverley isn't all that good. Gerrard hinted before the Euro's that he was considering International retirement after the tournament, he didn't, but it certainly sets alarm bells ringing knowing it's in his head. Lampard is arguably playing better than he ever has in his new role, I still think he has a part to play.

As for Rooney, whilst he hasn't been brilliant, we still need him

Welbeck seems to be on the right track and Sturridge is improving, but those two are never going to be enough. We just have to keep picking Rooney and hope it works out I suppose.

PED · Mar 20, 2013

Feña14 said:
I agree, it was time to bring some new players in.

As for Rooney, whilst he hasn't been brilliant, we still need him Welbeck seems to be on the right track and Sturridge is improving, but those two are never going to be enough. We just have to keep picking Rooney and hope it works out I suppose.

Good points. I agree, bring in the young guys at the back and someone will step up, they usually do. Caulker may be the one.

Not sure I agree re Rooney, other than 04 Euros, he's been sub par in the England shirt-we all keep waiting for him to step it up but not sure he's going to get it done. The desire doesn't seem to be there anymore. With someone like Ronaldo, he's burning to be the best, game in and game out.

I think Sturridge has improved quite a bit since he turned red in January but he's not the finished article yet.

Is Carrick in the squad? If he can get it done against Real, the international level should be NBD. (EDIT-Just saw they want to play him in defense instead of midfield, another great idea......)

SempreSami · Mar 20, 2013

I still don't think Sturridge could pass water.

Ross K · Mar 20, 2013

I wonder if England might actually actually come unstuck a bit against Montenegro... maybe it's just the way our rugby boys got pulverised by the taffs last Saturday that's still fresh in my mind - whatever, I'm none too confident of Hodgson and England.

Feña14 · Mar 20, 2013

SempreSami said:
I still don't think Sturridge could pass water.

Maybe he can, maybe he can't. I'm yet to see him not try and beat 7 men everytime he gets the ball, if one day he decides to pass, we'll have an answer!

PED said:
Good points. I agree, bring in the young guys at the back and someone will step up, they usually do. Caulker may be the one.

Not sure I agree re Rooney, other than 04 Euros, he's been sub par in the England shirt-we all keep waiting for him to step it up but not sure he's going to get it done. The desire doesn't seem to be there anymore. With someone like Ronaldo, he's burning to be the best, game in and game out.

I think Sturridge has improved quite a bit since he turned red in January but he's not the finished article yet.

Is Carrick in the squad? If he can get it done against Real, the international level should be NBD. (EDIT-Just saw they want to play him in defense instead of midfield, another great idea......)

I agree, Rooney hasn't been that good for England. As I said though, it's either him.. or Sturridge, Welbeck, Carroll. I'd take Rooney over those, however bad he's been

Ross K · Mar 21, 2013

What an a-hole that Ferdinand is. So he can fly across the world and commentate on the game (for a pretty sum), but can't actually play in it on account of his special recuperation regime... yeah, right.

Feña14 · Mar 21, 2013

Ross K said:
What an a-hole that Ferdinand is. So he can fly across the world and commentate on the game (for a pretty sum), but can't actually play in it on account of his special recuperation regime... yeah, right.

You've only just worked that one out?

NickC · Mar 21, 2013

Ross K said:
What an a-hole that Ferdinand is. So he can fly across the world and commentate on the game (for a pretty sum), but can't actually play in it on account of his special recuperation regime... yeah, right.

Rio is full of s*it and should never play for England again. What a disgrace!

Feña14 · Mar 22, 2013

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896...-astonish-his-consistency-and-stamina-should-

Mata for Player of the Year!

NickC · Mar 22, 2013

Feña14 said:
http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896...-astonish-his-consistency-and-stamina-should-

Mata for Player of the Year!

Don't forget this nugget!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vE_bdgAeWHg

He's awesome.

NickC · Mar 22, 2013

Just remembered that perhaps THE biggest rivalry in sport is happening tonight. Serbia plays host to Croatia in a World Cup qualifier. Away fans have been banned from both fixtures.

This could get ugly.

Ross K · Mar 22, 2013

Surprisingly good result for Rep. of Ireland V Sweden. I thought Trap's days were numbered and he'd run out of steam, but maybe not quite.

Re England, well, they did a good job, can't criticise here. Back to the Swedes though and one thing caught my eye...

I heard that going into yesterday Ibrahimovic had scored (IIRC) in eleven of his previous eleven internationals. Well, they say Zlatan divides players, is hard to get along with, can go missing in big games against PL teams, is a bit of a nutter, but... 11/11?... now those are some stats!

Ibra is an incredible player there can be no doubt about that (still fresh in the mind of course is his 'exhibition' against England not far back.) I think he's one of them who's ability is so high, as are his standards, that that sort of explains the perceived 'negatives.'

To me he's everything Rooney promises to be but isn't. I also know who I'd take to win a fight out of both them (Zlatan does high level martial arts, I believe)!

NickC · Mar 23, 2013

Ross K said:
Surprisingly good result for Rep. of Ireland V Sweden. I thought Trap's days were numbered and he'd run out of steam, but maybe not quite.

Re England, well, they did a good job, can't criticise here. Back to the Swedes though and one thing caught my eye...

I heard that going into yesterday Ibrahimovic had scored (IIRC) in eleven of his previous eleven internationals. Well, they say Zlatan divides players, is hard to get along with, can go missing in big games against PL teams, is a bit of a nutter, but... 11/11?... now those are some stats! Ibra is an incredible player there can be no doubt about that (still fresh in the mind of course is his 'exhibition' against England not far back.) I think he's one of them who's ability is so high, as are his standards, that that sort of explains the perceived 'negatives.'

To me he's everything Rooney promises to be but isn't. I also know who I'd take to win a fight out of both them (Zlatan does high level martial arts, I believe)!

He has a black belt in Karate, I believe.

With that being said, he got into a scuffle with the lone American at Milan a few seasons back, Oguchi Onyewu (once of Newcastle!) who stands 6'5 and is a mammoth. Needless to say, Zlatan is a good fighter but picked the wrong target. He got his ass kicked that day.

But yeah, he's an amazing scorer. He probably has the hardest shot in the world, I think he hit a free kick over 215kmph during his stay at the Nou Camp.

Ross K · Mar 23, 2013

Check this for Zlatan goals! Some mind-blowingly brilliant stuff here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H6xxRlkkFo

Feña14 · Mar 23, 2013

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...nho-drops-huge-hint-about-Chelsea-return.html

It's so on

Mourinho, a replacement for Torres and a long overdue new midfield.. could be a good summer! Although with all this snow, it seems like an age away at the moment.

NickC · Mar 23, 2013

Ross K said:
Check this for Zlatan goals! Some mind-blowingly brilliant stuff here...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H6xxRlkkFo

Oh well he's brilliant, no doubt about that. Amazing ability and skill.

NickC · Mar 23, 2013

Feña14 said:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...nho-drops-huge-hint-about-Chelsea-return.html

It's so on Mourinho, a replacement for Torres and a long overdue new midfield.. could be a good summer! Although with all this snow, it seems like an age away at the moment.

A new midfield?

But isn't ours relatively young? Hazard, Mata, De Brunye, Ramieres, Luiz, Marin, Romeu, Oscar etc... Plus there's some absurd talent coming through the ranks, we don't really need to buy do we? And who would come? Surely if we only have one need (defensive midfielder) than all the other clubs will try to clean out Roman's bank account to get the player we want.

Yeah there's some age in Lampard, etc.. but he's special and deserves to call time on his Chelsea career whenever he wants to.

Torres will leave but he'll go to Atletico which he needs to do. He is loved there moreso than he ever was at Chelsea or Liverpool. In return, we'll get a favorable look by Atletico and a nice discount on Falcao, which would be awesome.

Feña14 · Mar 23, 2013

NickC said:
A new midfield?

But isn't ours relatively young? Hazard, Mata, De Brunye, Ramieres, Luiz, Marin, Romeu, Oscar etc... Plus there's some absurd talent coming through the ranks, we don't really need to buy do we? And who would come? Surely if we only have one need (defensive midfielder) than all the other clubs will try to clean out Roman's bank account to get the player we want.

Yeah there's some age in Lampard, etc.. but he's special and deserves to call time on his Chelsea career whenever he wants to.

Torres will leave but he'll go to Atletico which he needs to do. He is loved there moreso than he ever was at Chelsea or Liverpool. In return, we'll get a favorable look by Atletico and a nice discount on Falcao, which would be awesome.

I think Torres is valued at around £10 Million, that's what i've been hearing anyway.

You did list alot of players, but of the 8, only Ramires and Romeu are genuine central midfielders. The rest are number 10's, wide players, second strikers etc.. If i'm honest I don't really count Ramires as a central/holding midfielder either, he can do it, but it's not his best position and it does shackle him a bit.

The players coming through are mostly defenders (Ake, Wallace, Chalobah, Kane), and more attacking midfielders (Feruz, Baker, Piazon, Davila, Cuevas etc..). There aren't really any out and out players coming through who operate as traditional midfielders, it's something we have to fix through the transfer market, and should of done before now.

Even teams who regularly bring youth players through the ranks have to dip into the market to fill gaps, as a team who don't promote from within, the need is even greater.

NickC · Mar 23, 2013

Feña14 said:
I think Torres is valued at around £10 Million, that's what i've been hearing anyway.

You did list alot of players, but of the 8, only Ramires and Romeu are genuine central midfielders. The rest are number 10's, wide players, second strikers etc.. If i'm honest I don't really count Ramires as a central/holding midfielder either, he can do it, but it's not his best position and it does shackle him a bit.

The players coming through are mostly defenders (Ake, Wallace, Chalobah, Kane), and more attacking midfielders (Feruz, Baker, Piazon, Davila, Cuevas etc..). There aren't really any out and out players coming through who operate as traditional midfielders, it's something we have to fix through the transfer market, and should of done before now.

Even teams who regularly bring youth players through the ranks have to dip into the market to fill gaps, as a team who don't promote from within, the need is even greater.

Only 10 million for Torres? Dear oh dear. Now Falcao will only cost 60 million instead of the quoted 70 million.

Maybe it's worth looking to some of the lesser markets for a midfielder, theres loads of quality in Asia, the US, etc... Maybe we could get Banega, he is awesome. Also, I know you're a big fan of Serie A, what do you think of Michael Bradley of Roma? He's so young but he has been a godsend for our national team, he bosses the midfield like someone with much more experience than him. Maybe he's not ready for Chelsea but he has been making some waves around Europe (and he'd sell shirts too!).

Oh and Pirlo is out of contract at Juve this summer if I'm not mistaken! Chelsea would do well to get someone like him if only to assist those youngsters with making it into the first team and showing them how to control a midfield.

Feña14 · Mar 23, 2013

NickC said:
Only 10 million for Torres? Dear oh dear. Now Falcao will only cost 60 million instead of the quoted 70 million.

Maybe it's worth looking to some of the lesser markets for a midfielder, theres loads of quality in Asia, the US, etc... Maybe we could get Banega, he is awesome. Also, I know you're a big fan of Serie A, what do you think of Michael Bradley of Roma? He's so young but he has been a godsend for our national team, he bosses the midfield like someone with much more experience than him. Maybe he's not ready for Chelsea but he has been making some waves around Europe (and he'd sell shirts too!).

Oh and Pirlo is out of contract at Juve this summer if I'm not mistaken! Chelsea would do well to get someone like him if only to assist those youngsters with making it into the first team and showing them how to control a midfield.

I think Bradley is a great player, he seems to be everywhere in the mold of De Rossi and would be a great alternative to Mikel. With Mikel and Romeu we are doing ok'ish for defensive midfielders, it's the position next to them which is of bigger concern. Someone who they can give the ball to and set the front 4 to work, someone like Pirlo as you mentioned. I'm hesitant to say he's too old, as that's what I thought last time he was available!

It was interesting in the FA Cup away to Man Utd, when they thought they had the game won and their midfield stopped competing as hard. Hazard, Mata and Oscar tore them apart in the second half. Imagine having someone in the deeper role who could boss things with creativity and make that happen in the majority of games? Instead of just against weaker teams and the top ones once they think they have us beat. Finding someone like that is key.

BlackSilver · Mar 24, 2013

NickC said:
He has a black belt in Karate, I believe.
He got his ass kicked that day.

Where did you see that? Yes, he had a broken rib, but that doesn't mean much

Ross K · Mar 24, 2013

Feña14 said:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...nho-drops-huge-hint-about-Chelsea-return.html

It's so on Mourinho, a replacement for Torres and a long overdue new midfield.. could be a good summer! Although with all this snow, it seems like an age away at the moment.

From the 'hint' in the link I'm preying it's actually Inter not Chelsea. Jose at Chelsea would be bad news indeed for the other top PL teams, very bad.

Feña14 · Mar 24, 2013

Ross K said:
From the 'hint' in the link I'm preying it's actually Inter not Chelsea. Jose at Chelsea would be bad news indeed for the other top PL teams, very bad.

It could be Porto

maybe not.

“It could be a destination where I have coached before. There are things that may be about to happen no one could imagine.”

Or maybe it's a city he has coached in before, and the thing that no one could imagine is that it's a rival? Maybe AC Milan.. or Arsenal :-|

I agree it would be very good for Chelsea, one of the best things I heard about it was that he would only come if Emenalo gets fired. He would clean up the behind the scenes and would demand total control, which is what's needed. Get rid of all the whisperers and people who don't have a clue who like to meddle in the football side of things, that's one of the main problems. Mourinho is the only one who could achieve that I think.

Benhur · Mar 25, 2013

Mourinho was in London during the weekend. That Chelsea may be his destination is becoming more than a rumor. A Porto coach, Rui Sá Lemos, who worked with Mourinho at Porto, tweeted that Mourinho will be coaching Chelsea next year, according to this article in AS.com
http://futbol.as.com/futbol/2013/03/24/primera/1364153339_792915.html

Feña14 · Mar 25, 2013

Benhur said:
Mourinho was in London during the weekend. That Chelsea may be his destination is becoming more than a rumor. A Porto coach, Rui Sá Lemos, who worked with Mourinho at Porto, tweeted that Mourinho will be coaching Chelsea next year, according to this article in AS.com
http://futbol.as.com/futbol/2013/03/24/primera/1364153339_792915.html

It does look like it's going happen, yeah. It will be interesting to see it play out, even for the neutrals. Abramovich v Mourinho part 2 could be car crash, or genius

hopefully it's the latter!

"Jose Mourinho was due back at Stamford Bridge on Monday night, ready to take his seat to watch Russia play Brazil in a friendly.
Exactly where he was remained a mystery. Mourinho was on the guest list of the Brazilian FA, but there were no sightings of him braving the cold.

However, it may not be too long before Mourinho is back in even more familiar surroundings: the Chelsea dug-out and the home dressing room.

According to sources close to the self-anointed Special One, Mourinho is once again the chosen one. He is the man Roman Abramovich wants to succeed interim manager Rafa Benitez and a deal, say those sources, is as good as done."

Ross K · Mar 26, 2013

Really looking forward to the big international match tonight, which of course is France V Spain.

Quite how Spain have got into this situation I'm not entirely sure. I know they are p***** off that although they won it last time they've still had to qualify (this being down to another unneeded intervention and prize error by that arch crook and total abomination, S. Blatter Esq. :evil

Anyhow, I'm hoping they can stamp their undoubted brilliance on this game, regain some form, and proceed to the finals. Will not be easy against the French though, not in the least.

Curious to see if Villa is playing too... Fabregas too... great that Xavi is back I believe.

PED · Mar 26, 2013

Viva la France! Hope the Frogs beat Spain and save me from tiki taka at the next world cup.

Ross K · Mar 26, 2013

PED said:
Viva la France! Hope the Frogs beat Spain and save me from tiki taka at the next world cup.

Well, for us with Spanish leanings, I say this to you!...

Ross K · Mar 26, 2013

FAO Fena...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/chelsea-jose-mourinho-understood-struck-1784870

crosscourt · Mar 26, 2013

Ross K said:
Really looking forward to the big international match tonight, which of course is France V Spain.

Quite how Spain have got into this situation I'm not entirely sure. I know they are p***** off that although they won it last time they've still had to qualify (this being down to another unneeded intervention and prize error by that arch crook and total abomination, S. Blatter Esq. :evil

Anyhow, I'm hoping they can stamp their undoubted brilliance on this game, regain some form, and proceed to the finals. Will not be easy against the French though, not in the least.

Curious to see if Villa is playing too... Fabregas too... great that Xavi is back I believe.

Are France any good? I was in France during the Euros last year and saw a lot of them. Their attitude was terrible and I couldnt tell whether they had any ability.

Feña14 · Mar 26, 2013

Ross K said:
FAO Fena...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/chelsea-jose-mourinho-understood-struck-1784870

It does seem to be gathering momentum! It's been 6 crazy years since he left, every fan has been clinging on to the idea of him coming back one day. To think it could only be a matter of weeks away from happening.. I won't get my hopes up just yet though

Ross K · Mar 26, 2013

Managed to watch both games almost simultaneously and it's a case of normal service resumed...

Spain get their act together (enjoyed watching the second-half of this feisty, full-throttle game) and England, second half onwards, enact their version of 'Zulu' (yet again) as they are completely besieged and made to look utterly clueless and inept.

NickC · Mar 26, 2013

crosscourt said:
Are France any good? I was in France during the Euros last year and saw a lot of them. Their attitude was terrible and I couldnt tell whether they had any ability.

Ability? Yes.

Drive? Determination? Positive attitudes? A desire to win? Team unity? No.

Feña14 · Mar 26, 2013

Ross K said:
Managed to watch both games almost simultaneously and it's a case of normal service resumed...

Spain get their act together (enjoyed watching the second-half of this feisty, full-throttle game) and England, second half onwards, enact their version of 'Zulu' (yet again) as they are completely besieged and made to look utterly clueless and inept.

I didn't even bother watching tonight, i've said many times that International football doesn't really do it for me, but it's still sad to hear England were made to look, as you said, inept. It happens in every game I do see them play, or so it seems.

Still, it's a bit strange/worrying to hear it happened tonight. Lampard is usually the one England player who can stop things going completely that way in the middle. In the Euro's Gerrard got alot of praise for his highlight deliveries, but was a big reason we couldn't hold the ball at all and got dominated. The Lampard injury before the tournament really set us back in that regard, although by the sounds of it he didn't really do it tonight.

NickC · Mar 26, 2013

Feña14 said:
I didn't even bother watching tonight, i've said many times that International football doesn't really do it for me, but it's still sad to hear England were made to look, as you said, inept. It happens in every game I do see them play, or so it seems.

Still, it's a bit strange/worrying to hear it happened tonight. Lampard is usually the one England player who can stop things going completely that way in the middle. In the Euro's Gerrard got alot of praise for his highlight deliveries, but was a big reason we couldn't hold the ball at all and got dominated. The Lampard injury before the tournament really set us back in that regard, although by the sounds of it he didn't really do it tonight.

It really is a shame, though, isn't it?

International football doesn't do it for me either (aside from watching the occasional European match like Serbia-Croatia, or watching the US national team, we are playing away to Mexico tonight which will be fun to watch). The play is cagey, the refereeing isn't that good, there's always too much controversy and the players don't really give a damn unless it's a major tournament.

Not what it should be, but that's how it is unfortunately.

And yeah England were crap.

Feña14 · Mar 26, 2013

NickC said:
It really is a shame, though, isn't it?

International football doesn't do it for me either (aside from watching the occasional European match like Serbia-Croatia, or watching the US national team, we are playing away to Mexico tonight which will be fun to watch). The play is cagey, the refereeing isn't that good, there's always too much controversy and the players don't really give a damn unless it's a major tournament.

Not what it should be, but that's how it is unfortunately.

And yeah England were crap.

I just think fans care more about their club sides. People around me are more interested in where their team will end up after the closing months of the season. Villa fans are worried about relegation, Wolves fans are hoping they don't end up in League 1, the Chelsea fans want to defend the FA Cup and have hopes of catching City in 2nd etc.. Every team has something to fight for, automatic promotion, the play offs, relegation, European spots, you name it. A midweek game in Montenegro doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

You have to wonder if it's the same for the players too. Did this game really mean as much as the things they are going to fight for when they are back at their clubs? For instance, i'm sure Spurs players tonight will want to give everything to be playing in the Champions League next season, they have a tricky game away to Swansea at the weekend which could have huge implications for the way their careers go for the next year.

PED · Mar 26, 2013

NickC said:
Ability? Yes.

Drive? Determination? Positive attitudes? A desire to win? Team unity? No.

I think they gave Spain a good game, not sure why they stuck with Benzema as he couldn't be bothered but they were up for it and a tie would have been a fair result.

Ribery was a handful as well.

Pogba was solid until the red card and the ref did well until he gave out 4 yellows to France but one to Spain. He let them play hard and I agree with that but got a little too tight when the little people started getting knocked around.

Evra got smoked a few times on the left, he's def lost a step (or two).

I didn't even bother watching England, I've seen that game too many time

Ross K · Mar 26, 2013

Feña14 said:
I didn't even bother watching tonight, i've said many times that International football doesn't really do it for me, but it's still sad to hear England were made to look, as you said, inept. It happens in every game I do see them play, or so it seems.

Still, it's a bit strange/worrying to hear it happened tonight. Lampard is usually the one England player who can stop things going completely that way in the middle. In the Euro's Gerrard got alot of praise for his highlight deliveries, but was a big reason we couldn't hold the ball at all and got dominated. The Lampard injury before the tournament really set us back in that regard, although by the sounds of it he didn't really do it tonight.

It was, to use the well worn cliche, a game of two halves...

England were completely strolling it and dominated the first half - they looked very good (Wellbeck, Rooney, Cleverly all playing really very nicely), and Montenegro seemed to have not shown up at all, very disappointing.

But literally from the second-half whistle, England were totally under the kosh, a total rear-guard action, utterly swamped and could barely escape their half. They should and would have lost if Montenegro's players taken some of the chances that the hapless English presented them with.

As PED says, yes, we've all seen this so many times before...

Feña14 · Mar 27, 2013

Ross K said:
It was, to use the well worn cliche, a game of two halves...

England were completely strolling it and dominated the first half - they looked very good (Wellbeck, Rooney, Cleverly all playing really very nicely), and Montenegro seemed to have not shown up at all, very disappointing.

But literally from the second-half whistle, England were totally under the kosh, a total rear-guard action, utterly swamped and could barely escape their half. They should and would have lost if Montenegro's players taken some of the chances that the hapless English presented them with.

As PED says, yes, we've all seen this so many times before...

PED summed it up by saying "I didn't even bother watching England, I've seen that game too many time", that was my line of thinking. From your analysis, it sounds like I made the right choice with that one

I'm looking forward to the League and FA Cup at the weekend, Spurs v Swansea, Man City v Newcastle, Chelsea v Man Utd, amongst others. Those are all worth watching. England? Not so much, for me!

PureAlph4 · Mar 27, 2013

I didn't watch the match. I think a lot of people just became disenchanted with the whole thing after the relative 'underperformance' (in the minds of the English media) of the 'golden generation.'

Back in '01-'02 there was a real optimism and energy around the international team (post Munich), and I think going into the 2002 WC was perhaps the only time I really thought we had a chance. I think the penny really dropped in the collective conscience after '04 or '06 that the group were never going to peak in the way that the media had built up, and fans just became disinterested in the whole cyclical farce (media hype, failure, scandals, that increasingly some players didn't seem to care and would retire from international football).

It's a little similar to the England rugby team. Of course there are many fans who fervently follow the team at all times. But after the WC win in '03 it has really taken until '12 for wide scale public interest in the team to return (i.e people who would watch the odd Test being interested again in following all the team's matches), with fresh leadership under Stuart Lancaster and a team completely divorced from the figures of '03 and Woodward's reign. The English football team is probably a couple of years away from having a team that has left the 'golden generation' in the past, but they really need two or three stars to really assert themselves for that fresh optimism and interest to build behind them again.

I suppose it's easier for club sides. They are not limited in the medium term by the largely fixed quality of their national player pool. They're also held to account by their fans, the media, and their employers on a weekly and annual basis, rather than over longer cycles, and this really increases the competitive pressure to perform and regenerate where necessary.

Feña14 · Mar 27, 2013

PureAlph4 said:
I didn't watch the match. I think a lot of people just became disenchanted with the whole thing after the relative 'underperformance' (in the minds of the English media) of the 'golden generation.'

Back in '01-'02 there was a real optimism and energy around the international team (post Munich), and I think going into the 2002 WC was perhaps the only time I really thought we had a chance. I think the penny really dropped in the collective conscience after '04 or '06 that the group were never going to peak in the way that the media had built up, and fans just became disinterested in the whole cyclical farce (media hype, failure, scandals, that increasingly some players didn't seem to care and would retire from international football).

It's a little similar to the England rugby team. Of course there are many fans who fervently follow the team at all times. But after the WC win in '03 it has really taken until '12 for wide scale public interest in the team to return (i.e people who would watch the odd Test being interested again in following all the team's matches), with fresh leadership under Stuart Lancaster and a team completely divorced from the figures of '03 and Woodward's reign. The English football team is probably a couple of years away from having a team that has left the 'golden generation' in the past, but they really need two or three stars to really assert themselves for that fresh optimism and interest to build behind them again.

I suppose it's easier for club sides. They are not limited in the medium term by the largely fixed quality of their national player pool. They're also held to account by their fans, the media, and their employers on a weekly and annual basis, rather than over longer cycles, and this really increases the competitive pressure to perform and regenerate where necessary.

Interesting points about the Rugby team. I've never really been a fan of Rugby, even in 2003 when the Country seemed to go mad for it, but i've noticed a bit more interest from people around it lately. It makes sense I suppose, there are some good young players and they seem to be going in the right direction. I can't see the football team ever getting to that point though

I've always been a big cricket fan, if i'm honest, I enjoyed watching England in the 90's when we would pick a different team for every game and get hammered 5-0 by Australia every few years, just as much as I have the last decade where we won the World Cup and beat Australia for fun.

The football side is just one i've never been able to really get behind. The first memories were of Euro '96, I was still heartbroken from the season before where we lost to Man Utd in the FA Cup semi finals! My club has always been the main focus for me.

jimbo333 · Mar 27, 2013

Ross K said:
It was, to use the well worn cliche, a game of two halves...

England were completely strolling it and dominated the first half - they looked very good (Wellbeck, Rooney, Cleverly all playing really very nicely), and Montenegro seemed to have not shown up at all, very disappointing.

But literally from the second-half whistle, England were totally under the kosh, a total rear-guard action, utterly swamped and could barely escape their half. They should and would have lost if Montenegro's players taken some of the chances that the hapless English presented them with.

As PED says, yes, we've all seen this so many times before...

Indeed, England played well in the first half, but didn't have enough experience at the back in the second half to keep the clean sheet. Yes, I'm blaming Rio. England needed him, and he refused to play. If he had retired from England fair enough, but he hasn't retired, he has refused to play for his country.

He is a disgrace, I ask again, can anyone name any other player that has basically refused to play for England in an important qualifier like this?

NickC · Mar 27, 2013

jimbo333 said:
Indeed, England played well in the first half, but didn't have enough experience at the back in the second half to keep the clean sheet. Yes, I'm blaming Rio. England needed him, and he refused to play. If he had retired from England fair enough, but he hasn't retired, he has refused to play for his country.

He is a disgrace, I ask again, can anyone name any other player that has basically refused to play for England in an important qualifier like this?

Roy needs to tell him he won't get picked for 2014. What a disgraceful act.

Ross K · Mar 27, 2013

Okay, he's a nutter, but bang on here imo...

Roy Keane, the former Manchester United captain, was rather more blunt in his assessment of England’s performance.
“England lost composure, they stopped playing,” he said.
“Every time I see this England team they let you down, they don’t give you a complete performance. They lack a killer instinct. I can’t believe how bad they were in the second half. I want to know what happened at half-time.
"This team don’t know how to win the big matches. “Reality check for everybody, you have to finish these teams off.
“What defines Roy Hodgson and any England manager is how you do in the big games and so far they have come up short.”

QFT

crosscourt · Mar 27, 2013

Poor Roy, he knows so much more about football than the others and it is such a curse for him.

jimbo333 · Mar 27, 2013

Ross K said:
Okay, he's a nutter, but bang on here imo...
QFT

Haha yes he is a nutter, I like the way he stands up to Fergie though, one of the few who does. Although didn't he refuse to play for his country at some point, or am a mixing him up with someone else from Ireland?

crosscourt · Mar 27, 2013

He got into a row with the Irish FA about their preparations for the Japan/South Korea World Cup. I can't remember whether he left them or they left him.

If you remember that season, United played Deportivo in the Champions League quarter final. At the time Deportivo were the form side in Europe. United annihilated them. It was the best football I have seen by an English club in Europe. But the price was very high. Both Beckham and Keane were injured, and the immediate consequences were that Arsenal won the Premiership and Real Madrid won the Champions League. The international consequences were that Beckham wasn't properly fit to play for England that World Cup summer. I am not sure that he ever fully recovered. And Keane was Keane and becuase of his injury and his frustration at not playing to the end of the season he allowed his demons to overwhelm him. More or less every complaint he made against the Irish FA seemed both true and a good point. But it didn't really matter because his argument was with his own fortune and not whatever shambles Irish football was. As I recall they went to Fiji or somewhere like that before the tournament to train on a rugby pitch. The insinuation was something like that the Irish FA officials, who traveled first class while the team went second class, fancied a holiday. At the World Cup The rest of the team played well, rode their luck and did well.

So poor Roy, a great player, potentially a great coach, now reduced to the TV studios.

Ross K · Mar 27, 2013

Well, okay, he's got a few "issues" (LOL he really is a bit unhinged) but I'm a fan. I don't think it should be forgotten that he was a FANTASTIC player in his day. I also appreciate someone who comes off the fence and says it like it is.
He probably takes the negative, 'doom and gloom' comments a bit far. He also has been shown to be somewhat lacking in the management stakes. None-the-less... Lee Dixon, Gary Lineker, Alan Hansen, Gareth Southgate, Mark Lawrenson, et al... sorry, but I'd rather listen to the person who uttered these classics... enjoy!

“Will those on telly yesterday be remembered for what they’ve achieved? None whatsoever. I wouldn’t trust them to walk my dog. There are ex-players and ex-referees being given air-time who I wouldn’t listen to in a pub.”

“On a night we got beaten in the cup by Luton, the staff came in and said, ‘Clive Clarke has had a heart attack at Leicester’.”I said, ‘Is he OK? I’m shocked they found one, you could never tell by the way he plays’.”

“I said to Mick that I didn’t respect him as a player, as a manager or as a person. To be fair, I used the expletive against him as well, I’m no angel, but these things hurt me to be accused in such a way. The language was strong, but that’s always the case in football, it’s not a debating society. That man can rot in hell for all I care.”

Said about Rio Ferdinand when they were team mates... “Just because you are paid £120,000-a-week and play well for 20 minutes against Tottenham, you think you are a superstar.”

“Before the game there was all this stuff about anti-racism and anti-bullying. It would be a good idea to start wearing wristbands for anti-diving.”

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