USTA League Question

the 10s n00b · Mar 30, 2013

Hi So recently my friend and I joined a 5.0 up league in out local section and so far it has been fun.. one of our friends however is still trying to play but has the rating at 6.0 and he says the league wont let him get in. he tried appealing it didn't work last year and hes trying again but what other options does he have if the appeal doesn't work. we don't have anything higher that 5.0 and he really wants to play. could he just start an entire new account and answer the self rate questions differently? like make a new membership number? any ideas?

J_R_B · Mar 31, 2013

Absolutely, but he should rate himself 3.5 to win nationals.

sam_p · Mar 31, 2013

the 10s n00b said:
Hi So recently my friend and I joined a 5.0 up league in out local section and so far it has been fun.. one of our friends however is still trying to play but has the rating at 6.0 and he says the league wont let him get in. he tried appealing it didn't work last year and hes trying again but what other options does he have if the appeal doesn't work. we don't have anything higher that 5.0 and he really wants to play. could he just start an entire new account and answer the self rate questions differently? like make a new membership number? any ideas?

In other words, you mean should he cheat in order to play at a level lower than he is rated?

Even if he tried, he'll probably be caught out eventually. There aren't that many 6.0 players around playing USTA league tennis, he will run into someone who knows him and his rating (unless maybe he just relocated to a different section). Then he'd be likely to be sanctioned by USTA, perhaps along with the captain who let him join his team after doing that. This kind of thing does happen I'm sure, but it is one thing for someone to cheat that way to change their rating from 4.0 to 3.5. There are tons of 4.0 and 3.5 players so getting lost in the crowd for a while might work.

goober · Mar 31, 2013

sam_p said:
In other words, you mean should he cheat in order to play at a level lower than he is rated?

.

How you know he cheated? I know some guys who didn't really have a clear understanding of the NTRP rating system and WAY over-rated themselves when they started. One guy played 4 years of high school tennis and did ok. He never played college and he rated himself a 6.0 He had a high perception of his abilities but he was actually probably a strong 3.5/weak 4.0. Then he basically could not play anything other open tournaments where he got slaughtered.

JRstriker12 · Mar 31, 2013

the 10s n00b said:
Hi So recently my friend and I joined a 5.0 up league in out local section and so far it has been fun.. one of our friends however is still trying to play but has the rating at 6.0 and he says the league wont let him get in. he tried appealing it didn't work last year and hes trying again but what other options does he have if the appeal doesn't work. we don't have anything higher that 5.0 and he really wants to play. could he just start an entire new account and answer the self rate questions differently? like make a new membership number? any ideas?

How did he get his 6.0 rating? If it's through playing pro qualifiers, future events, or high level juniors or high level NCAA tennis then I doubt he can appeal.

It would also be a moral question of sandbagging a whole 1.0 NTRP level below your actual level (assuming he's an actual 6.0). That's a BIG gap and not exactly what I would call fun tennis.

Also, if you enjoy league tennis, you might want to think again on falsifying a account to get a player on your team. If you were busted, I'm sure you'll kiss your league tennis days bye-bye for a good amount of time, if not permanently.

tennis_tater · Mar 31, 2013

the 10s n00b said:
Hi So recently my friend and I joined a 5.0 up league in out local section and so far it has been fun.. one of our friends however is still trying to play but has the rating at 6.0 and he says the league wont let him get in. he tried appealing it didn't work last year and hes trying again but what other options does he have if the appeal doesn't work. we don't have anything higher that 5.0 and he really wants to play. could he just start an entire new account and answer the self rate questions differently? like make a new membership number? any ideas?

I thought that this year, in Over 18's, there is now the 5.0+ division, where you can have a 5.0 team, but play one line with a pair that is 5.0+ rated.

the 10s n00b · Apr 1, 2013

He is not cheating he is at best a 5.0 and I have seen him almost get beat by 4.5s he overrated himself and can't even play a 5.0 plus league because they only play 5.5s not 6.0s. He played d1 tennis but got injured and took a big break. I mean how hard would it be for them to move him down to a 5.5

sam_p · Apr 1, 2013

goober said:
How you know he cheated? I know some guys who didn't really have a clear understanding of the NTRP rating system and WAY over-rated themselves when they started. One guy played 4 years of high school tennis and did ok. He never played college and he rated himself a 6.0 He had a high perception of his abilities but he was actually probably a strong 3.5/weak 4.0. Then he basically could not play anything other open tournaments where he got slaughtered.

The OP said "one of our friends however is still trying to play but has the rating at 6.0". He has a rating of 6.0 (not stated whether this is C or S rating) and the OP proposes him reregistering with a different name and lying on the self-rating questions. If he does this, it is cheating...

sam_p · Apr 1, 2013

tennis_tater said:
I thought that this year, in Over 18's, there is now the 5.0+ division, where you can have a 5.0 team, but play one line with a pair that is 5.0+ rated.

It is 5.0+, but this means you can register two 5.5 players per team and use one per match at #1 singles or #1 doubles.

beernutz · Apr 1, 2013

the 10s n00b said:
He is not cheating he is at best a 5.0 and I have seen him almost get beat by 4.5s he overrated himself and can't even play a 5.0 plus league because they only play 5.5s not 6.0s. He played d1 tennis but got injured and took a big break. I mean how hard would it be for them to move him down to a 5.5

So he self-rated at 6.0 and doesn't yet have a computer (C) rating?

JLyon · Apr 1, 2013

if he got a 6.0 it means he is under 30 and played at a Ranked D1 school or had a national ranking, so 6.0 would be correct regardless of whether he took a break or not. Now he can appeal to local coordinator/office and ask for an appeal to 5.5 and give circumstances. I could see 5.5, but 5.0 would be a complete stretch.

J_R_B · Apr 1, 2013

beernutz said:
So he self-rated at 6.0 and doesn't yet have a computer (C) rating?

How would someone even get a 6.0C rating? I've never even seen leagues above 5.0. It would have to be 6.0 T from tournaments or set at 6.0 because of background or self-rating.

NumbersGuy · Apr 1, 2013

I'll bet the guy's name is Sidd Finch.

goober · Apr 1, 2013

J_R_B said:
How would someone even get a 6.0C rating? I've never even seen leagues above 5.0. It would have to be 6.0 T from tournaments or set at 6.0 because of background or self-rating.

Dominate a 5.0 league go to nationals and get a double bump. But I agree would be pretty rare.

beernutz · Apr 2, 2013

J_R_B said:
How would someone even get a 6.0C rating? I've never even seen leagues above 5.0. It would have to be 6.0 T from tournaments or set at 6.0 because of background or self-rating.

Apparently there are 5.5+ leagues out there with 6.0 C players on them. I did some advanced searching on tennislink until I came across these names from the Northern California district. If you follow them to their histories you'll find the 5.5+ leagues some, like Berry, are playing on:

JLyon · Apr 2, 2013

beernutz said:
Apparently there are 5.5+ leagues out there with 6.0 C players on them. I did some advanced searching on tennislink until I came across these names from the Northern California district. If you follow them to their histories you'll find the 5.5+ leagues some, like Berry, are playing on:

They do have an Open National Championship and 5.5 Championships. Uncommon but they are there, probably some great tennis to watch

Spokewench · Apr 4, 2013

If he signs up again under a different name and fills out the questionnaire incorrectly, that is lying, and it is cheating. He can be banned from play for this behavior. That is what grievance committees are for.

It is regrettable that USTA in most areas do not have leagues for 5.5 and 6.0 players, but it is because there are just not enough players in those divisions to make two teams in an area.

This player just probably does not have any league opportunities, but he can play open tournaments and those are available to him through USTA.

The Isomotion31 · Apr 4, 2013

Spokewench said:
If he signs up again under a different name and fills out the questionnaire incorrectly, that is lying, and it is cheating. He can be banned from play for this behavior. That is what grievance committees are for.

It is regrettable that USTA in most areas do not have leagues for 5.5 and 6.0 players, but it is because there are just not enough players in those divisions to make two teams in an area.

This player just probably does not have any league opportunities, but he can play open tournaments and those are available to him through USTA.

Why can't your friend just do this?

SunshineJS · Apr 5, 2013

Filing a self-rate appeal is the only ethical option. If he already tried that and was denied, like I think you mentioned, then he can only appeal once per year.

He could enter a tournament or two to get some results and use the scores as support to give to the Appeals Committee (it is now required that all districts/sections have a committee review the self-rate appeals, rather than just one person as it was in the past) as reason to moving him to a 5.5.

Nostradamus · Apr 7, 2013

How many Playoff matches do you have to be Benchmarked in your division ?? and once you are benchmarked, are you benchmarked forever in that division ?

J_R_B · Apr 7, 2013

Nostradamus said:
How many Playoff matches do you have to be Benchmarked in your division ?? and once you are benchmarked, are you benchmarked forever in that division ?

One and your are only benchmarked for one year.

sam_p · Apr 7, 2013

Nostradamus said:
How many Playoff matches do you have to be Benchmarked in your division ?? and once you are benchmarked, are you benchmarked forever in that division ?

You are only benchmarked for one year, unless you go back to Districts/Sectionals again and get benchmarked again.

volleygirl · Apr 8, 2013

NumbersGuy said:
I'll bet the guy's name is Sidd Finch.

Sidds to old to be this guy

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