2011 NOLE VS 2008 NADAL ON CLAY,who will win majority of matches??

Who was better,2008 nadal on clay vs 2011 nole on clay??

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    74
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
abmk said:
lulz, what ? he had to save set point vs djokovic in RG 2008 ..... he would win easier vs 2011 novak ? :lol:
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Nadal temporarily took his foot off the gas because he was winning far easier than what he had considered possible at 6-4, 6-2, 3-0 (2 breaks).
 
veroniquem

veroniquem

Bionic Poster
There is no combination in which Nole would win more clay matches than Nadal. First of all because he plays fewer events on clay (never plays Barcelona for instance) and second of all because he couldn't even do it at his very best (in 2011, Rafa won M-C, Barcelona and RG, which is still better than Rome, Belgrade and Madrid).
 
The_Order

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
abmk said:
for one, drive his BH return I/O more than slicing it as he started doing from 2009 madrid onwards, in general , be more aggressive on the return on the deuce court and take selective chances on the ad court. ( doing it too frequently would mean leaving the court wide open )

Attack rafa's BH not with flatter, but heavy forehands relentlessly. on a medium-fast to fast surface, overwhelm him with his serve, forehand and well timed net play.

make the slice more well-knifed than what he usually does ....he needs it to be very good vs nadal ...
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Too funny. Especially coming from someone who's never even played before...

If only Federer was smart enough to pick up on these changes that would allow him to beat his main rival more often than not. Why didn't you tell him?

abmk said:
fed's BH was very good in AO 2009 final ,for example ; if he had served even half-decent, he'd probably have won that ....
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Yeah, I wish he served like in his peak against Roddick at AO07 SF. Oh wait...
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
I think 2011 Nole would win atleast one of their CC meetings leading up to FO but at the FO I'd take 2008 Nadal in 4 sets.
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
The_Order said:
Too funny. Especially coming from someone who's never even played before...

If only Federer was smart enough to pick up on these changes that would allow him to beat his main rival more often than not. Why didn't you tell him?
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because thinking of changes/tactics and actually being able to execute them at a high level are two different things ...duh !


The_Order said:
Yeah, I wish he served like in his peak against Roddick at AO07 SF. Oh wait...
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he served better in the roddick SF in AO 2007 than he did in the AO 2009 final ... was obviously clearly better in the rest of his game ...
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
Mustard said:
Nadal temporarily took his foot off the gas because he was winning far easier than what he had considered possible at 6-4, 6-2, 3-0 (2 breaks).
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yeah like nole wasn't a bit below par compared to how he played in hamburg for instance that year or much lesser than how he played in 2011 ....

mind you, that was RG 2008 nadal ... in the masters or other clay court events, he wasn't as good as he was at RG ..

get real ......any version of nadal, including RG 2008 would have some trouble vs djokovic 2011....
 
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Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
abmk said:
get real ......any version of nadal, including RG 2008 would have some trouble vs djokovic 2011....
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Nope. I have a long enough memory not to be swept away by the current prevailing moods of "Djokovic 2.0" and all that stuff. The thought of 2008 French Open Nadal losing 2 sets in a match, let alone in 3 sets in a match, is just madness.
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
Mustard said:
Nope. I have a long enough memory not to be swept away by the current prevailing moods of "Djokovic 2.0" and all that stuff. The thought of 2008 French Open Nadal losing 2 sets in a match, let alone in 3 sets in a match, is just madness.
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oh, please, you are taking it to the other extreme ...you said he would win easier than he did vs an inferior version of djoker in RG 2008 ... that's blatant delusional fanboyism ...

RG 2008 nadal would win in 4, maybe 5 sets if djoker really redlines , but he's not getting away easily vs djokovic 2011 ...

as far as the other CC events go, he'd probably win 2 and lose 1 ...
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
The_Order said:
Too funny. Especially coming from someone who's never even played before...

If only Federer was smart enough to pick up on these changes that would allow him to beat his main rival more often than not. Why didn't you tell him?



Yeah, I wish he served like in his peak against Roddick at AO07 SF. Oh wait...
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Why is that funny? :confused:

How many professional matches did Richard play when he was coaching Venus and Serena? Now after following his advise, how many slams have the girls brought home?
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
abmk said:
oh, please, you are taking it to the other extreme ...you said he would win easier than he did vs an inferior version of djoker in RG 2008 ... that's blatant delusional fanboyism ...
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No, at the 2008 French Open, Nadal was winning far easier than even he was expecting at 6-4, 6-2, 3-0 (2 breaks), and he lost some concentration with Djokovic mounting a mini-fightback before Nadal closed out the tiebreak and won the match 6-4, 6-2, 7-6. Facing the 2011 version of Djokovic, Nadal would know that easing off at any stage would be very bad indeed, so there is less likely to be any let up.
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

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Mustard said:
No, at the 2008 French Open, Nadal was winning far easier than even he was expecting at 6-4, 6-2, 3-0 (2 breaks), and he lost some concentration with Djokovic mounting a mini-fightback before Nadal closed out the tiebreak and won the match 6-4, 6-2, 7-6. Facing the 2011 version of Djokovic, Nadal would know that easing off at any stage would be very bad indeed, so there is less likely to be any let up.
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People really need to go back and look at Nadal's 2008 matches. I honestly think most people have forgotten how high his level of play was then.
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
Mustard said:
No, at the 2008 French Open, Nadal was winning far easier than even he was expecting at 6-4, 6-2, 3-0 (2 breaks), and he lost some concentration with Djokovic mounting a mini-fightback before Nadal closed out the tiebreak and won the match 6-4, 6-2, 7-6. Facing the 2011 version of Djokovic, Nadal would know that easing off at any stage would be very bad indeed, so there is less likely to be any let up.
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so where does djokovic playing quite a bit better in 2011 on clay than at RG 2008 factor into all this ? nowhere ?
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
abmk said:
so where does djokovic playing quite a bit better in 2011 on clay than at RG 2008 factor into all this ? nowhere ?
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Against 2008 French Open Nadal? Not much, no, because that Nadal overwhelmed his opponents physically and mentally. Djokovic's dominance over Nadal in 2011 was heavily based on Djokovic out-Nadalling Nadal in the rallies.
 
Mike Sams

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Mustard said:
Against 2008 French Open Nadal? Not much, no, because that Nadal overwhelmed his opponents physically and mentally. Djokovic's dominance over Nadal in 2011 was heavily based on Djokovic out-Nadalling Nadal in the rallies.
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It's all in the mind
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
Mustard said:
Against 2008 French Open Nadal? Not much, no, because that Nadal overwhelmed his opponents physically and mentally. Djokovic's dominance over Nadal in 2011 was heavily based on Djokovic out-Nadalling Nadal in the rallies.
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so djokovic being mentally tougher and physically tougher in 2011 when compared to 2008 doesn't matter much at all......yeah ...good to know ..you do realise djokovic outnadalling nadal wasn't just because of nadal's decline, but also because of substantial improvement from djoker ?

I am not saying djokovic would win vs RG 2008 nadal, but he would cause some trouble to him ........ nadal winning in 4 sets would be the most probable outcome
 
D

Deleted member 77403

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2008 Nadal didn't really have a mental block against anyone that I can recall, whilst 2011 Nadal did. And that mental block was a big reason in those wins, not that djokovic didn't earn them, he created that mental block, giving him that advantage. 2008 Nadal though would not have that mental block hurting his game, and I think would win, but it would still be a good battle.
 
Legend of Borg

Legend of Borg

G.O.A.T.
Mustard said:
The mind cannot have any thoughts at all without experiencing things in society via our 5 senses.
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Westerners place too much emphasis on thoughts and thinking and thier impact on the world. Just look at conventional pop psychology (it's all in the mind, mind over matter, what you think you become etc.).

Actions speak louder than thoughts.
 
Nadalgaenger

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
phnx90 said:
2011 Djokovic is by far the most complete version of himself we've seen.

2008 Nadal is of course physically peak Nadal, but he did make major improvements in his strokes, such as his serve (2010 onwards), slice, backhand (sporadically 2009 onwards) and forehand (2012 onwards).

2008 Nadal certainly had the more attackable serve and his forehand back then might be less potent against gluten-free Djokovic, compared to 2012 Nadal's forehand, considering how Nadal made tweaks specifically to address Djokovic 2.0. However, his return of serve was better and more aggressive in 2008, he was much faster, and he was solid off both wings at Wimbledon that year too.

So I think it's really too close to call. On hard courts, Djokovic generally would have the upper hand (Nadal didn't play well on HC consistently until 2009 onwards), while on grass Nadal might have the edge. On clay, considering Nadal's RG performance, I may give the edge to Nadal.

Still, it really comes down to how Djokovic's ROS and BH DTL fares against Nadal's own BH, FH, ROS and movement. I'd say 50-50 with either player winning a negligible number of matches more than the other.
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2008 Nadal was a force of nature on clay! Just look at the demolition job he did on Fed in the RG final!! 2011 Novak couldn't even take out Fed on clay!
2011 Novak played brilliantly but 2008 Nadal was unstoppable on clay. Nadal in 3, maybe 4 sets.
 
Nadalgaenger

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
Mustard said:
Against 2008 French Open Nadal? Not much, no, because that Nadal overwhelmed his opponents physically and mentally. Djokovic's dominance over Nadal in 2011 was heavily based on Djokovic out-Nadalling Nadal in the rallies.
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Very well said. I think a great deal of Novak's success was the psychological edge he acquired. Nadal couldn't fathom being out-Nadalled!
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
MichaelNadal said:
People really need to go back and look at Nadal's 2008 matches. I honestly think most people have forgotten how high his level of play was then.
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No, people need to rein in their inner fanboy, but we all know Mustard has trouble doing that when it comes to a certain tennis player and a certain cyclist. No version of Nadal trounces 2011 Djokovic on any surface. Djokovic might not win this hypothetical matchup, but it's highly probable that he would put up a decent fight and lose in 4 maybe 5 sets. With 4 sets being the more probable bet.
 
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NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
Novak's ROS, power, consistancy and movement were all incredible in 2011. Sorry but he doesn't lose in straights to anyone if he's peaking.
 
Mustard

Mustard

Bionic Poster
Steve0904 said:
No, people need to rein in their inner fanboy, but we all know Mustard has trouble doing that when it comes to a certain tennis player and a certain cyclist.
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A low blow. I gave my opinion on this 2008 Nadal vs. 2011 Djokovic matchup as I see it.
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Steve0904 said:
No, people need to rein in their inner fanboy, but we all know Mustard has trouble doing that when it comes to a certain tennis player and a certain cyclist. No version of Nadal trounces 2011 Djokovic on any surface. Djokovic might not win this hypothetical matchup, but it's highly probable that he would put up a decent fight and lose in 4 maybe 5 sets. With 4 sets being the more probable bet.
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I think it would probably be 4 too.
 
Incognito

Incognito

Legend
Nadal. The only one who would have gotten close to beating Nadal in 2008 form would have been a Federer at his very peak.
 
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