2016 Monte-Carlo Masters SF - [2] Murray vs. [5] Nadal

[MichaelNadal]

It's in no way the same. He did it against Thiem from set one 1-1 0-30 down no unreasonably long points, ITS THE BEGINNING IF THE MATCH FFS. It continued, on important points, and long rallies. Mostly on long points. He did it in one of Thiems service games, 3 times in a row holding up the server. Thiem didn't, he kept a good pace probably rushed some. So don't lie that it's the same, fair or equal. Nadal abuses it based on score more so than rally length. Nadal abuses it more often than most, and as far as I can remember longer averages than most. It's anything but "the same exemption"

How people are letting Nadal taking time between points in 2016 is beyond me. Not a word would be said if he was still losing. It's annoying, and it bugs me too, but it's always been that way with him and always will be. Like the buttpicking, I really don't pay attention to it anymore. He is very ocd and ritualistic, and if the umpire isn't going to say anything, I'm not going to sit there and ruin a match in my head obsessing over something, while the quality of tennis is sublime.

 

[mandy01]

BTW, what will MN do if Ultron spanks his hero's ass again? I know it suddenly doesn't look like a weak era rhetoric to him, but will be go back to it just in case?

 

[MichaelNadal]

You're so full of it. Nadal was averaging at 31 secs and was down to over 40s on BPs. Then he halts Murray right in the middle of his service game, strolls to his chair, gives his eyes some beauty treatment and struts back. And then of course proceeds to suggest he would be taking an MTO. Like I said, Trump has followers, Nadal has fans.

You're not angry enough yet, I hope you'll be on a while, we need to change that!

BTW, what will MN do if Ultron spanks his hero's ass again? I know it suddenly doesn't look like a weak era rhetoric to him, but will be go back to it just in case?

Era is as weak as ever saltface How you liking Monte Carlo?

 

[mandy01]

You're not angry enough yet, I hope you'll be on a while, we need to change that!



Era is as weak as ever saltface How you liking Monte Carlo?

I like it as much as you liked 2015.

 

[MichaelNadal]

I like it as much as you liked 2015.

The difference is that it doesn't affect my day, but you've been straight up ******** for 14 consecutive hours since the match ended. Nadal is in the final, Federer is home, and you're salty. Congrats!

 

[mandy01]

The difference is that it doesn't affect my day, but you've been straight up ******** for 14 consecutive hours since the match ended. Nadal is in the final, Federer is home, and you're salty. Congrats!

Hahahaha not at all. I slept for a good 8 hours actually. Unlike you I only just resumed posting here after a long break while in your case, you probably spit venom at 'Ultron' every single day of your life.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Hahahaha not at all. I slept for a good 8 hours actually. Unlike you I only just resumed posting here after a long break while in your case, you probably spit venom at 'Ultron' every single day of your life.

Lol, if only I talked about Novak 1/10th as much as I get credit for it. Yes it was me that coined the term that has everyone calling him that, but every time someone says it, it's not my fault. I've had very little to say about him this year outside of responding to trolls about him.

 

[mandy01]

Lol, if only I talked about Novak 1/10th as much as I get credit for it. Yes it was me that coined the term that has everyone calling him that, but every time someone says it, it's not my fault. I've had very little to say about him this year outside of responding to trolls about him.

Balls.

 

[mellowyellow]

How people are letting Nadal taking time between points in 2016 is beyond me. Not a word would be said if he was still losing. It's annoying, and it bugs me too, but it's always been that way with him and always will be. Like the buttpicking, I really don't pay attention to it anymore. He is very ocd and ritualistic, and if the umpire isn't going to say anything, I'm not going to sit there and ruin a match in my head obsessing over something, while the quality of tennis is sublime.

Well good for you not letting it bother you, but I'm pretty confident if you look through his match losing threads over the past 2 years if they aren't deleted.... You will see most if not all mention the time violation or should I say lack of time violations, and enforcement.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Well good for you not letting it bother you, but I'm pretty confident if you look through his match losing threads over the past 2 years if they aren't deleted.... You will see most if not all mention the time violation or should I say lack of time violations, and enforcement.

Like I said, it annoys me too, especially sometimes where it's really noticeable. But if you KNOW he's going to take a lot of time, and he's been doing it since 05, and you choose to watch his match, it's a bit silly to let that ruin it after all this time. I don't like Ultron's tennis, so I don't watch, it's quite simple. It's weird how haters hate Nadal more than his fans love him, and sit painfully through his matches complaining, when many of them are quite epic.

 

[Bender]

It's in no way the same. He did it against Thiem from set one 1-1 0-30 down no unreasonably long points, ITS THE BEGINNING IF THE MATCH FFS. It continued, on important points, and long rallies. Mostly on long points. He did it in one of Thiems service games, 3 times in a row holding up the server. Thiem didn't, he kept a good pace probably rushed some. So don't lie that it's the same, fair or equal. Nadal abuses it based on score more so than rally length. Nadal abuses it more often than most, and as far as I can remember longer averages than most. It's anything but "the same exemption"

You're assuming that Nadal is being given preferential treatment based on the fact that Nadal is doing something that Thiem (for instance) was not doing. That's not proof of preferential treatment, because Thiem hasn't actually provided the opportunity for the umpire to treat him differently in the first place. If Thiem had been employing the same tactics as Nadal and yet only Thiem were punished, then yes, it would be unfair. As you say, Thiem kept a good pace, maybe even rushed some.

The situation (at least the way I'm inferring it) is as follows:
Thiem: "Nadal keeps taking too much time"
Umpire: "I'm not enforcing the 25 second rule strictly. Why don't you take a few extra seconds too?"
Thiem: "I don't want to"
Umpire: "Well don't come back to me later saying that I gave Nadal special treatment"

Make no mistake--I am not defending Nadal, but I am pointing out that umpires have been doing a poor job of enforcing the 25 second rule, and that what has been happening has been fair on the basis that umpires have generally been doing a poor job of enforcing the time limit for both players and not just Rafa. If they are going to enforce it, they should enforce it every time for everyone. If they are not going to (as it seems to be the case), then people should not be complaining just because Rafa specifically keeps going over the limit. On a side note, the fact that the same people who complain about Nadal's time wasting do not care for Djokovic or JMDP's time wasting (although Djokovic has fixed this by leaps and bounds recently, if only because perhaps he hasn't been pushed by anyone in the last 18 months) is telling as well.

From the 1.5 sets I was able to catch of the match yesterday, Andy was complaining about Rafa taking too long between serves whilst Andy himself was taking 27 seconds between serves. While Andy is right in that Rafa was taking too long (and I hate Rafa's time wasting rituals almost as much as your next Nadal hater), he let that get into his head far more than he should have.

And no, just because Nadal is prominent in his time wasting abilities does not mean that he is getting any special treatment. The only way we can say for sure that Rafa is getting some sort of different treatment is if both Rafa and his opponent did the same things and only Rafa's oppoent got penalised for it. Fact remains that both Andy and Rafa were over the limit, and both got time violation warnings right at the end of the final set. Pathetic on the part of the umpire, but there it is.

 

[Gary Duane]

nadal has so many layers in his game.
it is a convolution of risk/ reward profile of his arsenals.
he never ever shows his inner layer unless he is really really up against wall and absolutely nowhere to hide.
I wait for that moment.

fascinating contrast in style. federer, the greatest front runner in history, djokovic's steady excellence and the rafa, "end game master" i would like to call.

In the end there are four players (and I would like to add Agassi) who all had/have their own way of winning.

There is something desperate about Nadal when he is down. I heard many old-timers say the same thing about Pancho Gonzales. It IS fun to watch, I think.

 

[Gary Duane]

I can't agree more with this. It is on slow hcs where Djokovic can realize the full extent of his capabilities--the court is slow enough to allow his defense and felixiblility to shine, while on the other hand the predictable bounce and reasonable speed of the court allows him to redirect and flatten out winners with ease. On something faster or more unpredictable he is sometimes troubled by the power of big servers or the variety of the likes of Federer and Murray, while on slower surfaces he finds it harder to hit through Nadal.

Here you will read that grass and HCs and clay are all the same now.

(I don't agree.)

 

[ForumMember]

Lol I was hoping to read some comments on how Nadal played. But all I could read is whining about Rafa's time wasting. Surprisingly rafa's time wasting wasn't an issue until he was losing. He won a great match with solid play and it suddenly becomes an issue. I do agree that at times it irritates but would not accept this being called cheating. Cheating is something which one specifically does on occasions with the sole purpose of taking undue advantage. He does that because he needs to focus more than other players when in game, that's all. I believe officials do understand that different players pace their game differently and that's why they are reluctant to enforce this rule forcefully.

 

[bananaforehand]

I imagine some of you guys, when watching football, you count how many seconds the keeper holds the ball his hands each time.

Like with tennis. It seems to me to be a rule just to make sure someone isn't taking the ****. I've read Nadal took an average 31 seconds between points. That's on average 6 second longer than usual. We're really throwing our toys out of a pram over that? There's no defined end time of a match, so it's hardly a ploy to waste time when you're winning late in a match.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

I'm not bothered about how long they are taking. If somebody is taking it to the extreme and going over a minute, I'm sure I'd have a different opinion. Other than that. Baby, I don't care.

I was more annoyed at the misplaced umbrella. Totally unacceptable. Great comedy value, though.

 

[MichaelNadal]

I imagine some of you guys, when watching football, you count how many seconds the keeper holds the ball his hands each time.

Like with tennis. It seems to me to be a rule just to make sure someone isn't taking the ****. I've read Nadal took an average 31 seconds between points. That's on average 6 second longer than usual. We're really throwing our toys out of a pram over that? There's no defined end time of a match, so it's hardly a ploy to waste time when you're winning late in a match.

Throwing their toys out bc they can't stand Nadal, and he's giving them a reason to have sweaty undies again.

 

[ForumMember]

I imagine some of you guys, when watching football, you count how many seconds the keeper holds the ball his hands each time.

Like with tennis. It seems to me to be a rule just to make sure someone isn't taking the ****. I've read Nadal took an average 31 seconds between points. That's on average 6 second longer than usual. We're really throwing our toys out of a pram over that? There's no defined end time of a match, so it's hardly a ploy to waste time when you're winning late in a match.

Absolutely. Unless it is a ploy to waste time like in the cases of time bound matches as soccer, it is not big issue.

One may call this as annoying but calling this as cheating belies malicious intent.

 

[mistik]

How people are letting Nadal taking time between points in 2016 is beyond me. Not a word would be said if he was still losing. It's annoying, and it bugs me too, but it's always been that way with him and always will be. Like the buttpicking, I really don't pay attention to it anymore. He is very ocd and ritualistic, and if the umpire isn't going to say anything, I'm not going to sit there and ruin a match in my head obsessing over something, while the quality of tennis is sublime.

Still annoyed that he gives something to work on to the loser haters. He should have find a faster routine already.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Still annoyed that he gives something to work on to the loser haters. He should have find a faster routine already.

They'll always find a reason to be pressed.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

There is 0 chance of Murray even winning a set. Free money to bet on Nadal in straight sets.

Did someone lose money?

 

[tennis_pro]

Did someone lose money?

No, I'm not betting anymore. I'm still shocked that Murray managed to win a set yesterday.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

No, I'm not betting anymore. I'm still shocked that Murray managed to win a set yesterday.

Well, he was playing well before this match, so I was a kind of expecting this.

Disappointed that he disintegrated so quickly in the third.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

If I were a Djokovic supporter the last thing I'd want is for Nadal to get back to his clay best because the chances of Djokovic beating a well playing Nadal at the FO are very slim.

That is true but I love their rivalry and when both are at their best! Better for each other and the game in general!

 

[mellowyellow]

You're assuming that Nadal is being given preferential treatment based on the fact that Nadal is doing something that Thiem (for instance) was not doing. That's not proof of preferential treatment, because Thiem hasn't actually provided the opportunity for the umpire to treat him differently in the first place. If Thiem had been employing the same tactics as Nadal and yet only Thiem were punished, then yes, it would be unfair. As you say, Thiem kept a good pace, maybe even rushed some.

The umpire is given the opportunity to be just and fair as soon as the unwarranted cheating starts.What makes you think two people have to cheat for one to be shown preference? As soon as you allow one to cheat you have shown preference! The rule is their so it doesnt happen. He has no clue if Thiem will ever cheat in that manner for the entirety of the match and shouldnt conduct himself under the assumption he will. Its unprofessional. FFS! 1-1 0-30 in the first set their is no reason to be lenient on being grossly overtime. It was blatant cheating because of the score. What parent, business or law enforcement operate this way? If this happened in the work place I guarantee it s a case of discrimination.


The situation (at least the way I'm inferring it) is as follows:
Thiem: "Nadal keeps taking too much time"
Umpire: "I'm not enforcing the 25 second rule strictly. Why don't you take a few extra seconds too?"
Thiem: "I don't want to"
Umpire: "Well don't come back to me later saying that I gave Nadal special treatment"

Utterly useless and imagined pathological BS

Make no mistake--I am not defending Nadal, but I am pointing out that umpires have been doing a poor job of enforcing the 25 second rule, and that what has been happening has been fair on the basis that umpires have generally been doing a poor job of enforcing the time limit for both players and not just Rafa. If they are going to enforce it, they should enforce it every time for everyone. If they are not going to (as it seems to be the case), then people should not be complaining just because Rafa specifically keeps going over the limit. On a side note, the fact that the same people who complain about Nadal's time wasting do not care for Djokovic or JMDP's time wasting (although Djokovic has fixed this by leaps and bounds recently, if only because perhaps he hasn't been pushed by anyone in the last 18 months) is telling as well.

From the 1.5 sets I was able to catch of the match yesterday, Andy was complaining about Rafa taking too long between serves whilst Andy himself was taking 27 seconds between serves. While Andy is right in that Rafa was taking too long (and I hate Rafa's time wasting rituals almost as much as your next Nadal hater), he let that get into his head far more than he should have.

And no, just because Nadal is prominent in his time wasting abilities does not mean that he is getting any special treatment. The only way we can say for sure that Rafa is getting some sort of different treatment is if both Rafa and his opponent did the same things and only Rafa's oppoent got penalised for it. Fact remains that both Andy and Rafa were over the limit, and both got time violation warnings right at the end of the final set. Pathetic on the part of the umpire, but there it is.

More useless Drivel. 3 paragraphs that explain nothing except you are a NADAL FANBOY. Fact, its CHEATING. Enforced properly or not makes no difference. Nadal does it the most/longest and most certainly when its not warranted. It cant be enforced fairly if one player does it(Nadal) like in the Thiem match and the other doesnt. It most certainly is preferential treatment if someone chooses to follow the rules and someone else is allowed to continually break them like in the Thiem match. Maybe you don't understand what preferential means


pref·er·en·tial
ˌprefəˈren(t)SH(ə)l/
adjective

1. of or involving preference or partiality; constituting a favor or privilege.

Thats what happened, he was constituted a favor, not warranted by rally or crowd. Thiem doesnt have to cheat for that to happen

Your entire post is baseless and erroneous.

 

[Crisstti]

^^ It's you who doesn't understand the word "preferential". Despite the fact you yourself just posted the definition. Go and read it again.

 

[Crisstti]

Like I said, it annoys me too, especially sometimes where it's really noticeable. But if you KNOW he's going to take a lot of time, and he's been doing it since 05, and you choose to watch his match, it's a bit silly to let that ruin it after all this time. I don't like Ultron's tennis, so I don't watch, it's quite simple. It's weird how haters hate Nadal more than his fans love him, and sit painfully through his matches complaining, when many of them are quite epic.

But that isn't what ruins the match Mike. What ruins it is that Rafa wins Thye just try to hide their bitterness as something else.

Absolutely. Unless it is a ploy to waste time like in the cases of time bound matches as soccer, it is not big issue.

One may call this as annoying but calling this as cheating belies malicious intent.

Exactly, fundamental difference with time bound sports. And yet, people in football don't call it cheating either.

They'll always find a reason to be pressed.

Of course they will. BTW, haven't Heard the whining about poly strings lately, and how it's cheating as well

 

[Djokovic2011]

No, I'm not betting anymore. I'm still shocked that Murray managed to win a set yesterday.

Why? He took two off Nadal last year in Madrid, one in Rome the year before and another in Monte Carlo back in 2011.

 

[Meles]

Why? He took two off Nadal last year in Madrid, one in Rome the year before and another in Monte Carlo back in 2011.

Clayray is alive and if he somehow did not serve horribly in the 2nd set, he would have won the match in two sets.

 

[Meles]

I will re-post what I wrote here for my argument why things aren't so clear cut, nor cheating. I dont believe there was a malicious intent to take advantage.

Have you heard that for many years people predicted that Nadal wouldn't last? I am sure you know where this stems from? Just in the case you are not aware, is because has a 'high' punishing playing style. Very intense, that consist of grinding opponent by running most balls like a jack rabbit. He is trying to change that slowly but still most of his matches are high octane.

So what does that boils down to? Well, if Nadal average play consist of 15-20 and sometimes as high as 50 shots for the duration on a match. The body is bound to require more air. It would be unhealthy to force player to follow broadcast rules at the expense of exploding players. Some players can handle it better for various reasons. An umpire although given the power to bestow warnings, they also have to wise to understand the physical state of the players. Nadal clearly have been vocal about it and to be honest he isnt as bad and a few years a go. But, Nadal isnt the only that break he rules, many players do, just that when high profile players do it, there is more scrutiny due to possibly the profile of match.

Also, pay close attention to the next match of Nadal, and see what do you see is different when he serves.

Well said.

 

[Smasher08]

They'll always find a reason to be pressed.

Citing this and the apparent double standard it causes is a legitimate criticism, but if there's too much whinging then yes it's finding something to latch onto.

Ralph simply isn't called on this, and he uses it to his advantage psychologically. He's quite arguably made a career of being a master of match psychology.

And yes, I agree with others who felt that La Monf seemed to tire a bit in the 3rd. His shots looked like they lost a little oomph and that he was pushing the ball back.

As he usually does in these types of matches, La Monf played spectacularly for periods and did everything but win.

Congrats to all the real Nadal fans -- after the last year and a half, this must be really sweet.

 

[Meles]

last time i see similar style is Sampras, believe it or not. he was a clutch player.
players often think they barely lost to Sampras after they played Sampras 1st time. they usually think they might be able to beat Sampras next time think they lost a close match.
some did beat Sampras sometimes and thought their strategy worked.
then they find themselves losing to Sampras with exactly same score at slams.

i have this theory that nadal has been fooling federer all these years.
made federer believe he is almost there to beat nadal with his strategy.
only to fail again and again clutch moment.

nadal has so many layers in his game.
it is a convolution of risk/ reward profile of his arsenals.
he never ever shows his inner layer unless he is really really up against wall and absolutely nowhere to hide.
I wait for that moment.

fascinating contrast in style. federer, the greatest front runner in history, djokovic's steady excellence and the rafa, "end game master" i would like to call.

I see the truth of it.

 

[Crisstti]

BTW, it's hilarious to see haters whine about Rafa NOT taking a MTO lol

 

[beast of mallorca]

Citing this and the apparent double standard it causes is a legitimate criticism, but if there's too much whinging then yes it's finding something to latch onto.

Ralph simply isn't called on this, and he uses it to his advantage psychologically. He's quite arguably made a career of being a master of match psychology.

And yes, I agree with others who felt that La Monf seemed to tire a bit in the 3rd. His shots looked like they lost a little oomph and that he was pushing the ball back.

As he usually does in these types of matches, La Monf played spectacularly for periods and did everything but win.

Congrats to all the real Nadal fans -- after the last year and a half, this must be really sweet.

The question is, why is LeMonf tired ? What wiI'll happen to him during the GS season where you play for 5 sets ? How can he win a Major with this kind of short coming?

 

[tennis_pro]

Why? He took two off Nadal last year in Madrid, one in Rome the year before and another in Monte Carlo back in 2011.

Because Nadal is playing a lot better now than the last 2 matches and 2011 MC was a fluke.

 

[Crisstti]

Because Nadal is playing a lot better now than the last 2 matches and 2011 MC was a fluke.

Maybe this shows it wasn't.

 

[ruerooo]

I know it suddenly doesn't look like a weak era rhetoric to him

You know this ... doesn't quite make sense, right?

 

[tennis_pro]

Maybe this shows it wasn't.

no

 

[LETitBE]

The question is, why is LeMonf tired ? What wiI'll happen to him during the GS season where you play for 5 sets ? How can he win a Major with this kind of short coming?

he cant..Monfils is a speed merchant,he moves quick for short bursts and then he's spent.